The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Colt McCoy might not be a bad grab

IMO we have a better Colt at QB already on the roster

VetSkinsFan wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:I'm really interested in the O-lineman that Shannahan has drafted in the past and what round they were selected. I'm thinking that he takes smaller, more versitile players who would naturally go later in the draft. If that is the case, pick a corner. Please do not draft a RB in the first round. What a waste. They're a dime a dozen and good thing Shannahan knows that.

Those small lineman would be at a disadvantage in the NFC East.

5 men working as one can't be beat.

there is ZERO % chance that Shannahan drafts a RB in the first round, and I'm glad. You don't draft RB's in the first...period. They're a dime a dozen.

chiefhog44 wrote:there is ZERO % chance that Shannahan drafts a RB in the first round, and I'm glad. You don't draft RB's in the first...period. They're a dime a dozen.

Absolutely agree.

I agreed!!! but can you image us getting a LT in free agency...then what ? who do we draft?

Pablo wrote:I agreed!!! but can you image us getting a LT in free agency...then what ? who do we draft?

a RT

chiefhog44 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:I'm really interested in the O-lineman that Shannahan has drafted in the past and what round they were selected. I'm thinking that he takes smaller, more versitile players who would naturally go later in the draft. If that is the case, pick a corner. Please do not draft a RB in the first round. What a waste. They're a dime a dozen and good thing Shannahan knows that.

Those small lineman would be at a disadvantage in the NFC East.

5 men working as one can't be beat.

5 undersized lineman will likely get swallowed up in the NFC East. We play predominantly smashmouth football with large, aggressive defenses. They need the girth as well as the speed to be effective here.

Gibbs4Life wrote:

Colt McCoy might not be a bad grab

IMO we have a better Colt at QB already on the roster

It depends on the offense. Kyle Shanahan likes to get the ball down the field. That, however, is not Colt McCoy's strength.

frankcal20 wrote:I too like JC and think that after this season, he should get another one.

Okung will be a LT not RT. He's projected to be a major impact right away. Instant starter in a major area of need. Make the pick.

Okung should clearly be picked first. The second pick should also be for the OL. There are, according to me, at least six tackles, two guards, and two centers in the draft who can be considered potentially elite. So, we are very likely to be able to grab one of them in the second round, as well as the first. I hope we do. Only three OL to go. If Jones works out (and he might), we'll have only two to go in a year in which a couple of quality FA's may blow our way. Here's hoping. The OL can be rebuilt in a single year.

Unfortunately, almost none of the above will happen. The Skins will go for Bradford, pick up a potentially elite tackle in the second round, hope Samuels comes back, and then try for cheap fixes with FA's of moderate skill and late round OL projects. Watch and learn. Danny is still in charge. There'll probably be no upgrading of personnel at left guard and center, which will be a huge mistake, and we'll only improve at right tackle, which will make us a bad team for the second year in a row.

When the Skins go for Bradford, which they will, I hope (against my expectation) they'll have a deal in the works that gives us draft picks for Portis (3rd round) and Campbell (2nd round). That could save the day somewhat because quality picks on the OL could extend throughout the second round, giving us two second round quality picks, and we could get lucky, most likely by picking up a quality center (which will almost certainly be available) and one of the quality tackles, of which there are five beyond Okung. Then, in the third round, we could pick an OL project that would have a shot at working out.

Here's betting no OL drafted later than the third round this year makes a splash in the NFL. Could happen, but scouting reports on that subject aren't hopeful.

Dockery wasn't that bad, man. He may not be the second coming of the Hogs, but we played a few guys worse than he did last year. Additionally, he's durable. We can't really say that about too many lineman last year, could we?

Half of our problem last year (okay less than half, but still definitely worth mentioning) is that we couldn't field the same 5 guys for more than a week at a time. I think we had something like 11 different configurations at starting offensive lineman last year (I hope I remember that quote accurately). There's NO WAY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH you can expect your lineman to gel and perform as a singly unit. If you do, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I would take 5 average lineman that will play together all 16 games over elite lineman who won't play more than 2 games in one configuration all year...

Okung should clearly be picked first.

That's not "clear" at all. None of it will be "clear" until the players all go through the various workouts (i.e. the Combine, individual workouts, etc.).

Unfortunately, almost none of the above will happen. The Skins will go for Bradford, pick up a potentially elite tackle in the second round, hope Samuels comes back, and then try for cheap fixes with FA's of moderate skill and late round OL projects.

Shanahan has a long history of drafting offensive linemen late or signing undrafted free agents. I'm not at all worried about his ability to rebuild the oline. It certainly wont only take one season, though, as you mentioned.

There'll probably be no upgrading of personnel at left guard and center, which will be a huge mistake, and we'll only improve at right tackle, which will make us a bad team for the second year in a row.

Dockery is the least of our problems. He played well last year. Agree about Rabach.

We are going to be a bad team next year no matter what. We have a lot of holes that go far beyond the offensive line and this is going to be a 2-3 year rebuilding process. Expecting anything less is unrealistic.

When the Skins go for Bradford, which they will, I hope (against my expectation) they'll have a deal in the works that gives us draft picks for Portis (3rd round) and Campbell (2nd round).

We aren't getting a 3rd for CP or a 2nd for JC. The only GM in the NFL dumb enough to make those trades was Vinny.

CanesSkins26 wrote:That's not "clear" at all. None of it will be "clear" until the players all go through the various workouts (i.e. the Combine, individual workouts, etc.).

Why any GM would put any value what so ever into what a player does in shorts is beyond me. Adam Archuletta was a first round pick simply because of how he looked and the numbers he posted at the combine and not based on how he played college ball.

Scout college players and drsft college players based on how they project in the pros, not how they look in shorts or how fast that can run a 40 (Yes, I'm talking to you Al Davis and DHB) Who care what their broad jump is and how high they can jump w/o pads on.

You need to find out how good is the football player is, not the gym rat, or "athlete". CAN HE PLAY FOOTBALL at a very high level. THen draft him!

After the Senior Bowl and the other few College all star games GMs should know everything they need to know about what kind of football players are out there. They still might need to find out what kind of people they are, but if the combine alters your draft board very much, you are already on your way to unemployment.

First of all DO NOT draft anyone who has at any time shown character flaws - all of these guys are talented, some a little more than others, yes! but the athlete that is driven to be better and wants to learn is a much better choice than the athlete that shows he can play the game at an extremely high level - they can all play, some just don't make the transition very well and that is why so many really good prospects from the big time colleges have a problem - they just have a difficult time in a lot of cases understanding that they are not good enough and accepting that the coach knows better - they get to the NFL and think it's over, I've made it - show me the money

guys like Chad Rhinehart are not the sort of players we need around here and I would be surprised if he is still is a part of the mix here for very long - if you don't think it's important to not behave like that, then you probably are not motivated to be the best you can be

secondly we are not going to see a decent offensive line for another year or 2 and I doubt Dockery, who is possibly the best of the bunch will be here when we do have a decent line - he's good but he's certainly not shown that he's a really good LG

we are going to be looking at a couple of years and then we'll need to have those guys getting used to playing together before we can really compete in the NFC East

PATIENCE people - nobody should be expecting miracles here, this season or next - let the FO select the guys carefully and hopefully they will become a great offensive line

It's hard to judge 1 guy in the mess we called an offensive line last year. Dock earned that fat paycheck he got when he went to Buffalo and then didn't do good there for whatever reason, but he performed well here and that's why he got paid. He can be solid for the next couple of years and I don't think we need to worry about him for a few more years.

chiefhog44 wrote:there is ZERO % chance that Shannahan drafts a RB in the first round, and I'm glad. You don't draft RB's in the first...period. They're a dime a dozen.

And particularly being Shannahan who has had such success drafting RB's in later rounds taking over a team with so many holes on O.

Rebuilding the offensive line is going to take a while and I agree that Dockery will most likely be here to help out - now that's a statement!

Dockery may be here for a little longer but when we get a decent odffensive line, one player that will not be a part of it is Derrick Dockery

I really hope we can find a way to move that #4 pick and get more players - if Dockery can be considered one of our better lineman, then we really need to find a way to get better linemen in here and soon

SkinsJock wrote:I really hope we can find a way to move that #4 pick and get more players

Thank you, reality. You "hope we can find a way." I am sick of the idiots who just say we have to trade down as if trades can be made unilaterally. I'm with you Jock, we have lots of holes and if we can "find a way" to trade down and get the right return it would be excellent.

SkinsJock wrote:Rebuilding the offensive line is going to take a while and I agree that Dockery will most likely be here to help out - now that's a statement!

Dockery may be here for a little longer but when we get a decent odffensive line, one player that will not be a part of it is Derrick Dockery

I really hope we can find a way to move that #4 pick and get more players - if Dockery can be considered one of our better lineman, then we really need to find a way to get better linemen in here and soon

What is your problem with Double D?

I think we need to go O-line, We can probably wait until the team is better to work on qb. That said, I really hope that C.J. Spiller doesn't turn into Chris Johnson/AP and we didn't draft him. We have very very little star power on offense. I would say Fred Davis was the only star power we had on offense last year. Spiller could be dynamic, and if he is and we don't draft him, it could be frustrating down the line.

SkinsJock wrote:
guys like Chad Rhinehart are not the sort of players we need around here and I would be surprised if he is still is a part of the mix here for very long - if you don't think it's important to not behave like that, then you probably are not motivated to be the best you can be

What's your problem with Chad? Mine is he isn't a very good OG, or hasn't hsown that he is one yet. If you have a problem with a guy getting drunk in the offseason and trying to get some late night pizza, then you have never had many young people working for you. He got drunk, was trying to get into a Pizza joint that was closed and a cop came by and arrested him for drunk in public.

That was the lamest arrest I have ever seen for public intoxication.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Rebuilding the offensive line is going to take a while and I agree that Dockery will most likely be here to help out - now that's a statement!
I really hope we can find a way to move that #4 pick and get more players, because if Dockery can be considered one of our better lineman, then we really need to find a way to get a bunch of good linemen in here and soon

What is your problem with Double D?

I have no problem with Dockery. It's just that if he's considered one of the guys we should keep then we are in pretty deep do do - this means, to me anyway, that we've really got a lot of work to do to put together a good offensive line and that does not happen with just a draft or 2 - Saturday has been Manning's center for 10 years

the biggest issue I have is that from what I have gathered here at THN:
1) the O line takes a long while to be really effective
2) the offensive line is even more important in the NFC East

while I would love to see the Redskins be competing for a playoff spot I'm more interested in seeing a consistently competitive team on the field again - I do not want to be like the Giants and win a Super Bowl ONLY because they were lucky (IF they played that game a 100 times, NY would only win 1)- I want a better team than that and I am happy if Shanahan takes 3 to 4 years to make it happen - we'll win some along the way but to me it is more important to do this right and not go for the quick fix that so many seem to want - we are going to need a few years to get this offensive line straightened out

hopefully Snyder let's them have the time to do it right

I'm begining to hope that Shanahan and Allen really like Bradford and can bring him in here and take their time re-building the offense around him - even if it takes 3-4 years to then have a future great as your QB for years to come, is very exciting

brad7686 wrote:I think we need to go O-line, We can probably wait until the team is better to work on qb. That said, I really hope that C.J. Spiller doesn't turn into Chris Johnson/AP and we didn't draft him. We have very very little star power on offense. I would say Fred Davis was the only star power we had on offense last year. Spiller could be dynamic, and if he is and we don't draft him, it could be frustrating down the line.

I doesn't matter if someone with a OL drafts Spiller and he becomes the best back in the NFL for 5 years! If we draft him with no OL and no QB he would maybe make a couple big plays, but would be a "bust".

I say "bust" because there is no way he could be productive for us with our current OL/QB situation. It would take at least two years to fix the line before you could get any return for your investment and by then every Redskins fan would be running out of town and the Danny would be looking for a replacement for Allen and Shanny.

If the Skins draft Spiller, either Allen or Shanahan or both, will be looking for a new job in a couple of years.

A BACK CAN NOT DO WELL WITH AN OL!!!!!!!!!! or a QB to keep the D honest!

skinsfan#33 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:I think we need to go O-line, We can probably wait until the team is better to work on qb. That said, I really hope that C.J. Spiller doesn't turn into Chris Johnson/AP and we didn't draft him. We have very very little star power on offense. I would say Fred Davis was the only star power we had on offense last year. Spiller could be dynamic, and if he is and we don't draft him, it could be frustrating down the line.

I doesn't matter if someone with a OL drafts Spiller and he becomes the best back in the NFL for 5 years! If we draft him with no OL and no QB he would maybe make a couple big plays, but would be a "bust".

I say "bust" because there is no way he could be productive for us with our current OL/QB situation. It would take at least two years to fix the line before you could get any return for your investment and by then every Redskins fan would be running out of town and the Danny would be looking for a replacement for Allen and Shanny.

If the Skins draft Spiller, either Allen or Shanahan or both, will be looking for a new job in a couple of years.

A BACK CAN NOT DO WELL WITH AN OL!!!!!!!!!! or a QB to keep the D honest!

I'm kind of backing off that comment a little, ESPN has him listed under 200 lbs., he looks bigger but apparently not. He's also not Chris Johnson fast. But he still is fast as hell.

skinsfan#33 wrote:A BACK CAN NOT DO WELL WITH AN OL!!!!!!!!!! or a QB to keep the D honest!

I assume you mean "without" an O-Line.

Tebow = more leadership than we've had at QB since Joe Theismann