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Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:25 pm
by VRIEL1
cleg wrote:RayNAustin wrote:The rule itself is a mockery. It is an insult to common sense, and should be an insult to all minorities.
Anytime you specifically use race as a criteria, it's racism. You cannot stand against racism by advocating and employing racism, anymore than you can stand against dishonesty by lying.
If I were Gray, I would have been smart enough to understand the deal, and not participate in such transparently obvious nonsense.
But the same thing occurred with Blache and Williams ...
This is just simple minded thinking. In order for racism to exist a power relationship must exist first. I.E. white people in positions of power intentionally exclude non-white who are not in power.
A minority group cannot be racist - they can be bigots and hateful of other races but they cannot be racist and affect institutional change on the majority race.The Rooney rule, while not elegant is justified because prior NFL owners (the power) were not hiring qualified black coaches with only a few small exceptions (Art Shell, Dennis Green and Ray Rhoades). Without the Rooeny rule Lovie Smith may never have been hired, Marvin Lewis, Tony Dungy, Mike Tomlin, etc. These guys were interviewed multiple times by other teams who knew they wanted to hire other coaches but it got their name out there. Without the Rooney rule I doubt the socially "progressive" billionaire owners of the 32 NFL teams would look much outside thier Good Old Boy network for coaches like most Division I college football programs.
Just beacuse we have come a long way in this country with relations between the races it is simply lazy and arrogant to think racism - especially institutional racism no longer exists.
I couldn't read the whole thing so I don't know if I' agreeing or not. I'll say I got as far as you saying minority's can't be racist. I like to think anyone or any group can be racist. If anyone is singling out another group of people based off of color or sex or nationality then they can be racist. Yeah we call the sex part sexist but essentially it's the same.
How about reverse discrimination?
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:38 pm
by welch
The Rooney rule, while not elegant is justified because prior NFL owners (the power) were not hiring qualified black coaches with only a few small exceptions (Art Shell, Dennis Green and Ray Rhoades). Without the Rooeny rule Lovie Smith may never have been hired, Marvin Lewis, Tony Dungy, Mike Tomlin, etc. These guys were interviewed multiple times by other teams who knew they wanted to hire other coaches but it got their name out there. Without the Rooney rule I doubt the socially "progressive" billionaire owners of the 32 NFL teams would look much outside thier Good Old Boy network for coaches like most Division I college football programs.
Shell, Green, and Rhoades would never have been considered either, except for some heavy pressure outside the NFL. Through the mid'70s, blacks were not considered "bright" enough to play QB. We saw that up close during SB 22, when "everyone" knew that Elway would chase Doug Williams right off the field. Every pre-game interview with Williams spun around how he felt being The First black QB in the Super Bowl.
Remember the great question: "Doug, how long have you been a black quarterback?"
Williams: "I've been a QB since I was about 12, but they tell me I've probably been black all my life".
This is not ancient history. GP Marshall would not have a black player on the Redskins until Stewart Udall, Secretary of the Interior, told him to integrate or play someplace other than the new DC Stadium.
Baseball had the same issue. Remember Al Campanis, a front office guy for the Dodgers who explained that black ballplayers didn;t have the "mental capacity" to manage a baseball team.
Yes, things have changed, but only through pressure.
Lets take a very recent example. Bobby Mitchell was director of player personnel and then Vice President of the Redskins. Snyder never interviewed Mitchell for either President of the Redskins, or GM. Mitchell is smart, knows the game, personifies leadership and skill. Furthermore, Mitchell played for Paul Brown, worked for Vince Lombardi and George Allen and Edward Bennett Williams, worked with Bobby Beathard, Joe Gibbs, and Charlie Casserly: how many people had Mitchell's experience?
Even so, Snyder told Mitchell to retire.
Take your pick: Vinnie Cerrato or Bobby Mitchell?
That's why the Rooney Rule is still important.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:41 pm
by Redskin_ty
fredp45 wrote:HOLD UP HERE...
We must fire all of these guys and completely start over.
Blatche and Smith were pushed on Zorn...do NOT do that to the next coach. If we hire Shanahan, let him and Allen hire their staff. Let's make a break with all of these guys. I get this weird feeling Blatche and others are Snyder's guys...
Snyder has hired his GM, let him hire his HC who hires his staff.
On top of all of that I also think...
Blatche -- We've done well in spite of him. I do not like his "my-way-is-the-only-way approach. He also seems to believe, a great player can play anywhere...they can't. Examples -- Landry is a SS and should never have been moved to FS. Orakpo has never played LB. He plays Haynesworth at RDE on 3rd downs -- making Haynesworth go up against their best OL...what a dumb idea. Jason Taylor at LDE -- what a stupid place for him to play...he was horrible there. Rogers has underperformed.
Smith -- Our Special Teams have stunk, they aren't even average...they are horrible. We never get any returns, ever... We've gone through punters, kickers, Randal El has not produced but they keep on going with him.
Fire all of them!!!! Let Allen and the new coach hire their team...PLEASE!
Could not have said any better than that.
Our defense could not stop people when we were in the lead. I think that our defense is what kept up in games but when it counts the most we would never seem to get any pressure on the QB.
If we are going to start over lets do it with our any ties to the coaching staff that we have now.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:58 pm
by Skinsfan55
welch wrote:Remember the great question: "Doug, how long have you been a black quarterback?"
Williams: "I've been a QB since I was about 12, but they tell me I've probably been black all my life".
This has been WIDELY debunked. That question was NEVER asked and even bringing it up completely invalidates the rest of your post.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:03 pm
by DEHog
Any chance Shanny is not the next HC??
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:09 pm
by Irn-Bru
DEHog wrote:Any chance Shanny is not the next HC??
If someone else gets the job, it would be a surprise rivaled only by Vinny getting fired.
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:14 pm
by Gibbs4Life
Any chance Shanny is not the next HC??
Shanny was the smoke screen...
GIBBS 3.O IS IN EFFECT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:14 pm
by Skinsfan55
Honestly I'm a little afraid of Mike Shanahan as the HC.
1.) Older coaches in the NFL don't fare as well. A coach's first 10 years are often their best.
2.) He was a great personnel man on the offensive side, but he never had much of a defense.
3.) Shanny has a wealth of experience in the NFL... but he doesn't seem to have a lot of connections. Who would be part of his staff? There's not a lot of names out there.
4.) He's another celebrity coach, albeit one with the best personnel record of any we've had. How often to celebrity coaches work out?
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:16 pm
by Gibbs4Life
The moment we hire Shanahan we instantly have the most accomplished of all the head coaches in our division. We also have a guy who absolutely knows how to build an offense. Shanahan's motto is
"As long as you've got a quarterback, you've got a chance"
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:35 pm
by Redskin in Canada
Gibbs4Life wrote:"As long as you've got a quarterback, you've got a chance"
So, I guess we are not going to run the wildcat, right?
Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:54 pm
by DEHog
Former Washington Redskins GM and now CBS Insider Charley Casserly said that former Dever Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan is headed to Washington. As a matter of fact Casserly is putting his new Redskins coaching staff together.
The offense will be run by Kyle Shanahan the son of the new Washington head coach. The young Shanahan is well respected around the league a bright young offensive mind. He is serving as the OC of the Houston Texans.
Texans head coach Gary Kubiak was the OC for the Broncos during the heydays of Denver. Kyle’s understanding of coach K’s offense has been key in helping Houston make a strong run at the playoffs this year.
By the way Shanahan was hired by Bruce Allen as assistant coach for offensive quality control under head coach Jon Gruden with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
The Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer is Shanhan’s top pick.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:11 am
by SkinsJock
DEHog wrote:Any chance Shanny is not the next HC??
I really don't see this franchise hiring anyone else - this next guy has to be a big time guy and I think that Snyder has made up his mind that he can get this done - I do expect that it will be announced today by Bruce Allen but the next guy here is going to be either Shanahan, Cowher, or Dungy and I don't think Cowher or Dungy are it
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:32 pm
by fleetus
cleg wrote:This is just simple minded thinking. In order for racism to exist a power relationship must exist first. I.E. white people in positions of power intentionally exclude non-white who are not in power. A minority group cannot be racist - they can be bigots and hateful of other races but they cannot be racist and affect institutional change on the majority race.
You should really
know what you are talking about before making polarizing statements like these.
Definition of a
Racist - a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
"White men can't jump" is a racist statement, for example.
Any person of any skin color, of any minority or majority group can be a racist.
definition of a
Bigot - One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
In the end, the ONLY process for hiring someone for a job without any racism or bigotry would be to hire someone SOLELY based on their qualifications, training and accomplishments and devoid of any consideration of their ethnic background, gender or race. No rule, Rooney or otherwise will accomplish this. What the Rooney rule does is get interviews for a few coaching candidates who otherwise would not have been considered. Not a bad thing, but it would be silly to think it does much good either.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:57 pm
by fleetus
SkinsJock wrote:DEHog wrote:Any chance Shanny is not the next HC??
I really don't see this franchise hiring anyone else - this next guy has to be a big time guy and I think that Snyder has made up his mind that he can get this done - I do expect that it will be announced today by Bruce Allen but the next guy here is going to be either Shanahan, Cowher, or Dungy and I don't think Cowher or Dungy are it
I've said it before, I'd like to see Todd Bowles and Russ Grimm interviewed before we hired anyone else. Either of those guys could bring a fresher, hungrier approach. That is what the Redskins need, IMO. Not necessarily a big name, but a take no prisoners, hard nosed coach who won't accept any back talk or whining prima donnas like Haynesworth, Portis and D. Hall. Someone in the Parcells/Belichick mold (Bowles) could be a perfect fit.
The fact that he played primarily for the Redskins, under Gibbs, and started in Super Bowl 22 doesn't hurt either.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:04 pm
by Smithian
Is anyone else completely underwhelmed by all the possible DCs for Shanahan?
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:08 pm
by CanesSkins26
Smithian wrote:Is anyone else completely underwhelmed by all the possible DCs for Shanahan?
Not at all. I would LOVE to have Mike Zimmer as our DC. He has done a great job with Cinci's D this year.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:10 pm
by CanesSkins26
fleetus wrote:SkinsJock wrote:DEHog wrote:Any chance Shanny is not the next HC??
I really don't see this franchise hiring anyone else - this next guy has to be a big time guy and I think that Snyder has made up his mind that he can get this done - I do expect that it will be announced today by Bruce Allen but the next guy here is going to be either Shanahan, Cowher, or Dungy and I don't think Cowher or Dungy are it
I've said it before, I'd like to see Todd Bowles and Russ Grimm interviewed before we hired anyone else. Either of those guys could bring a fresher, hungrier approach. That is what the Redskins need, IMO. Not necessarily a big name, but a take no prisoners, hard nosed coach who won't accept any back talk or whining prima donnas like Haynesworth, Portis and D. Hall. Someone in the Parcells/Belichick mold (Bowles) could be a perfect fit.
The fact that he played primarily for the Redskins, under Gibbs, and started in Super Bowl 22 doesn't hurt either.
I think it's pretty clear that they are looking for an established head coach that is a proven winner. Neither Bowles nor Grimm fit the bill. It's also clear that they think that the team has underachieved and there wasn't enough discipline. The best thing to do, imho, to fix that type of situation would be to bring in a guy that would garner instant respect (i.e. Shanahan). They've failer miserably with the last two first-time head coaches that they've hired so I highly doubt that they go that route.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:56 pm
by fleetus
Smithian wrote:Is anyone else completely underwhelmed by all the possible DCs for Shanahan?
Yep. Mike Zimmer sounds semi-exciting, but not sure how much he would bring over Blache. or if Cincinatti would really be so cheap to let him walk away.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:58 pm
by fleetus
CanesSkins26 wrote:fleetus wrote:SkinsJock wrote:DEHog wrote:Any chance Shanny is not the next HC??
I really don't see this franchise hiring anyone else - this next guy has to be a big time guy and I think that Snyder has made up his mind that he can get this done - I do expect that it will be announced today by Bruce Allen but the next guy here is going to be either Shanahan, Cowher, or Dungy and I don't think Cowher or Dungy are it
I've said it before, I'd like to see Todd Bowles and Russ Grimm interviewed before we hired anyone else. Either of those guys could bring a fresher, hungrier approach. That is what the Redskins need, IMO. Not necessarily a big name, but a take no prisoners, hard nosed coach who won't accept any back talk or whining prima donnas like Haynesworth, Portis and D. Hall. Someone in the Parcells/Belichick mold (Bowles) could be a perfect fit.
The fact that he played primarily for the Redskins, under Gibbs, and started in Super Bowl 22 doesn't hurt either.
I think it's pretty clear that they are looking for an established head coach that is a proven winner. Neither Bowles nor Grimm fit the bill. It's also clear that they think that the team has underachieved and there wasn't enough discipline. The best thing to do, imho, to fix that type of situation would be to bring in a guy that would garner instant respect (i.e. Shanahan). They've failer miserably with the last two first-time head coaches that they've hired so I highly doubt that they go that route.
I know you're right, but I still am not sold on Shanahan. Not against him per se, just not sold.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:59 pm
by RedskinTexan
Washington Redskins:
FootballCoachScoop has BREAKING NEWS and is the FIRST TO REPORT that Mike Shanahan (former Denver Broncos Head Coach) will be the next Head
Coach of the Redskins. As we reported earlier today, all indications pointed to Mike Shanahan (former Denver Broncos Head Coach) being the next Head
Coach. According to our sources, his son Kyle Shanahan (Houston Texans Offensive Coordinator) will be the new Offensive Coordinator and Mike Zimmer
the new Defensive Coordinator next season
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:01 pm
by CanesSkins26
fleetus wrote:Smithian wrote:Is anyone else completely underwhelmed by all the possible DCs for Shanahan?
Yep. Mike Zimmer sounds semi-exciting, but not sure how much he would bring over Blache. or if Cincinatti would really be so cheap to let him walk away.
Well, the main difference between Blache and Zimmer would be that Zimmer is at least competent. Blache is a joke and I can't wait for him to be gone. This defense far underperformed given the talent that we have and that falls on Blache.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:13 pm
by fleetus
CanesSkins26 wrote:fleetus wrote:Smithian wrote:Is anyone else completely underwhelmed by all the possible DCs for Shanahan?
Yep. Mike Zimmer sounds semi-exciting, but not sure how much he would bring over Blache. or if Cincinatti would really be so cheap to let him walk away.
Well, the main difference between Blache and Zimmer would be that Zimmer is at least competent. Blache is a joke and I can't wait for him to be gone. This defense far underperformed given the talent that we have and that falls on Blache.
Not gonna bite on that cheap shot for our DC who has coached a very good defense despite an offense that has constantly put them in bad situations. Time to move one.
Not in love with Zimmer. For one he's a former cowpaddy.
He's known for a 4-3 system with speed. But he also ran a 3-4 while working for Parcells.
I don't see the Redskins as a "speedy" 4-3 any time soon, what with the odd mixture of Orakpo, Carter, Fletcher etc.
If you move Orakpo to DE, we gain some speed but would leave a big hole at OLB where we have little depth to begin with. (and we definitely need to go offense in the draft)
If we go 3-4, I see Orakpo really blossoming at OLB, into a Joey Porter, Merriman type guy. Haynesworth would be good at NT, but both DE's would be problematic because carter is too small and Daniels, who would be great in a 3-4 is old. Oh well, change is coming either way.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:16 pm
by fleetus
RedskinTexan wrote:Washington Redskins:
FootballCoachScoop has BREAKING NEWS and is the FIRST TO REPORT that Mike Shanahan (former Denver Broncos Head Coach) will be the next Head
Coach of the Redskins. As we reported earlier today, all indications pointed to Mike Shanahan (former Denver Broncos Head Coach) being the next Head
Coach. According to our sources, his son Kyle Shanahan (Houston Texans Offensive Coordinator) will be the new Offensive Coordinator and Mike Zimmer
the new Defensive Coordinator next season
I say at least 50% chance this site has no scoop and are just repeating the same rumor in hopes of being first to report it. For one, Zimmer is in the playoffs. I doubt he would commit to anyone other than the Bengals until their season is over.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:18 pm
by CanesSkins26
fleetus wrote:RedskinTexan wrote:Washington Redskins:
FootballCoachScoop has BREAKING NEWS and is the FIRST TO REPORT that Mike Shanahan (former Denver Broncos Head Coach) will be the next Head
Coach of the Redskins. As we reported earlier today, all indications pointed to Mike Shanahan (former Denver Broncos Head Coach) being the next Head
Coach. According to our sources, his son Kyle Shanahan (Houston Texans Offensive Coordinator) will be the new Offensive Coordinator and Mike Zimmer
the new Defensive Coordinator next season
I say at least 50% chance this site has no scoop and are just repeating the same rumor in hopes of being first to report it. For one, Zimmer is in the playoffs. I doubt he would commit to anyone other than the Bengals until their season is over.
Charlie Casserly reported that that would be the staff yesterday. They probably are just ripping off his story.
Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:22 pm
by VRIEL1
Part of another news flash is that B-Bitch has said the team is going to delay the announcement of Shanahan until tomorow because Buges is supposedly retiring and they don't want it to look like Shanahan fired him.