The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

dlc wrote:

brad7686 wrote:The dumbest rule in the league cost them a game.

Its scary to see where the team is without Samuels. Heyer needs to be replaced ASAP.

Waiting for someone to blame this on Campbell...

No. It wasn't JC's fault, but I don't recall him making any plays either. Though, that was a nice pass to Thomas.

This game definitely falls on the head of Westbrook. Just because it seems like a stupid rule, doesn't mean that we shouldn't be prepared for it.

There's a reason why it took this guy so long to get off the practice squad. He sucks and will never make up for this bonehead move.

Westbrook sucks but it was a bad call too. The guy was in Randle El's "halo" before Westbrook was even pushed. Not only that but they made an official call and reversed it without the Panthers even challenging (when the last time you seen that happen). The refs can't challenge themselves, they are suppose to huddle up before announcing publicly, make the call and stick with it.

It is funny though because i think on the punt or two before Westbrook was awful close to Randle El and I think he said something to him about it. He also was wiped out on the long special teams run and was a main reason the guy had a huge lane to run in.

Oh well this one actually hurt because they gave me hope that they would win early on.

SKINFAN wrote:Problems everywhere, it's like owning an old car... You have tons of good memories, but everything in it is falling apart, you just put a new engine in it and it still sputters... TRADE IT IN FOR CASH FOR CLUNKERS!!! Dagnabbit we need an O line.

Actually, they've done everything BUT put in a new engine.

Most of it is -- as is Snyder's MO -- cosmetic and decorative. Things like a fancy paint job, racing stripes, spinner rims and a killer stereo. Things to lure your attention AWAY from the fact that the hurky-jerky engine is still under the hood.

Jeremy81 wrote:i'm just waiting for us to trade a 1st round pick for brady quinn...that would be hilarious.

orakpo only makes plays at DE, so why is he in pass coverage?

Has anyone on this site seen jason campbell just take a three or five step drop and just freakin pass it without double clutching, scrambling out of the pocket or getting sacked?

If he's at LB smart teams will always find a way to get him AWAY from the quarterback and into coverage. I don't think he's bad at LB as he will need time, and obviously his strength is at DE and passrushing, but he should have had help on that TD pass from a safety. Anytime, the TE gets deeper downfield a safety should be involved as well. Just a good play call and enough protection on their part to execute.

You right things are never smooth with his pass plays. Some of it is his indecision, however for the most part I think it has something to do with the offensive line and them not protecting well or creating good passing lanes for him to throw in. Unfortunately this game when he went to scramble out of the pocket there was two or three guys waiting for him then the usual one guy he has to slip by.

I am truly hoping that we can finish dead last if not second to last. This thing needs to be blown up. The way I see it, if they finish at the bottom and don't blow it up (from top to bottom) I can relinquish my season tickets! If there isn't someone other than manny and schlomo making the decisions after this nightmare, this franchise will never change. Oh, releasing Zorn goes without saying.

Irn-Bru wrote:I didn't know until reading this thread that pushing a gunner cover-man into the punt returner isn't illegal. So it looks like the refs got the right call, and the fault does lie with Westbrook, but still . . . what an oversight in the rules.

To me the problem with the call wasn't the refs saying that Westbrooks leg hit the ball, it was for the fact that they let the Panthers get in El's halo to even push Westbrook into him. This was a fair catch and the defender shouldn't have been within 5 yards of him before the push.

mastdark81 wrote:

Jeremy81 wrote:i'm just waiting for us to trade a 1st round pick for brady quinn...that would be hilarious.

orakpo only makes plays at DE, so why is he in pass coverage?

Has anyone on this site seen jason campbell just take a three or five step drop and just freakin pass it without double clutching, scrambling out of the pocket or getting sacked?

If he's at LB smart teams will always find a way to get him AWAY from the quarterback and into coverage. I don't think he's bad at LB as he will need time, and obviously his strength is at DE and passrushing, but he should have had help on that TD pass from a safety. Anytime, the TE gets deeper downfield a safety should be involved as well. Just a good play call and enough protection on their part to execute.

You right things are never smooth with his pass plays. Some of it is his indecision, however for the most part I think it has something to do with the offensive line and them not protecting well or creating good passing lanes for him to throw in. Unfortunately this game when he went to scramble out of the pocket there was two or three guys waiting for him then the usual one guy he has to slip by.

Can we please stop apologising for Campbell!!!!!!! I was the biggest apologist but he flat out Sucks!!! I will not sit by idley here and let todays performance get passed off on poor o-line play! He sucked when everybody was healthy!! plain and simple!!

HitDoctor wrote:

mastdark81 wrote:

Jeremy81 wrote:i'm just waiting for us to trade a 1st round pick for brady quinn...that would be hilarious.

orakpo only makes plays at DE, so why is he in pass coverage?

Has anyone on this site seen jason campbell just take a three or five step drop and just freakin pass it without double clutching, scrambling out of the pocket or getting sacked?

If he's at LB smart teams will always find a way to get him AWAY from the quarterback and into coverage. I don't think he's bad at LB as he will need time, and obviously his strength is at DE and passrushing, but he should have had help on that TD pass from a safety. Anytime, the TE gets deeper downfield a safety should be involved as well. Just a good play call and enough protection on their part to execute.

You right things are never smooth with his pass plays. Some of it is his indecision, however for the most part I think it has something to do with the offensive line and them not protecting well or creating good passing lanes for him to throw in. Unfortunately this game when he went to scramble out of the pocket there was two or three guys waiting for him then the usual one guy he has to slip by.

Can we please stop apologising for Campbell!!!!!!! I was the biggest apologist but he flat out Sucks!!! I will not sit by idley here and let todays performance get passed off on poor o-line play! He sucked when everybody was healthy!! plain and simple!!

With the way the oline has played in front of him for the past two seasons, I really have no opinion of the guy. They have tried to shoehorn him into an offense that he is not suited for, all the while letting the oline crumble in front of him. I watched most of the game today, and it seemed like he was under pressure from the snap of the ball...I'm not the biggest fan of Campbell, but I have a hard time putting this on his shoulders, in fact like a broken record on this thread it really comes down to piss poor front office management that upgraded a pretty decent D in the off-season instead of looking at the oline, is Campbell a world beater? no, but I can't put blame on the guy.

Its part of a 2 year plan ...

year one - boost the defence

year two - use the high draft pick to draft a franchise QB, get a top name coach, boost the OL

Problem solved ....

sigh

It is certainly true that this o-line is shaky. But that's just another excuse for Campbell. Thee were times today that he didn't have a chance, but many more times he really did get adequate protection and still he can't make a play when you need it. He gets happy feet ... and worse .. he seems to move toward pressure instead of away from it. Steps up when the pressure is coming from the middle, and steps sideways when the pressure comes from the ends. He often takes his focus away from the receivers down field and then can't re-acquire a target.

No ... Campbell makes a shaky o-line look even worse than it is. He had plenty of opportunities today ... and if it weren't for the defense, he wouldn't have had a single TD.

A good QB would find a way to make some plays.

SKINFAN wrote:Problems everywhere, it's like owning an old car... You have tons of good memories, but everything in it is falling apart, you just put a new engine in it and it still sputters... TRADE IT IN FOR CASH FOR CLUNKERS!!! Dagnabbit we need an O line.

What good memories?

HitDoctor wrote:

mastdark81 wrote:

Jeremy81 wrote:i'm just waiting for us to trade a 1st round pick for brady quinn...that would be hilarious.

orakpo only makes plays at DE, so why is he in pass coverage?

Has anyone on this site seen jason campbell just take a three or five step drop and just freakin pass it without double clutching, scrambling out of the pocket or getting sacked?

If he's at LB smart teams will always find a way to get him AWAY from the quarterback and into coverage. I don't think he's bad at LB as he will need time, and obviously his strength is at DE and passrushing, but he should have had help on that TD pass from a safety. Anytime, the TE gets deeper downfield a safety should be involved as well. Just a good play call and enough protection on their part to execute.

You right things are never smooth with his pass plays. Some of it is his indecision, however for the most part I think it has something to do with the offensive line and them not protecting well or creating good passing lanes for him to throw in. Unfortunately this game when he went to scramble out of the pocket there was two or three guys waiting for him then the usual one guy he has to slip by.

Can we please stop apologising for Campbell!!!!!!! I was the biggest apologist but he flat out Sucks!!! I will not sit by idley here and let todays performance get passed off on poor o-line play! He sucked when everybody was healthy!! plain and simple!!

Can we PLEASE open our eyes and see that Campbell if a problem is not the only problem on the team. When everyone was healthy on the offensive line we still had a subpar or average line...we still need a RT, a young LT, a young RG, a young Center. Devin Thomas dropped a pass that could have resulted in fieldgoal position or a possible touchdown. If Campbell threw a pick, fumbled, missed open wr's when he had time frequently then I will put the blame solely on him. But I don't think he did this game. This game came down to the trenches and we lost the one on one matchups.

I'm too tired of this to get mad anymore. Over and out

The only thing that would cause me to watch this team for the remainder of the season, is if we bench some of our stars in favor of our unproven cats.

Those guys are hungry to make it in the NFL, and this could be there chance to become known. Give them a shot!!

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:The only thing that would cause me to watch this team for the remainder of the season, is if we bench some of our stars in favor of our unproven cats.

Those guys are hungry to make it in the NFL, and this could be there chance to become known. Give them a shot!!

Your a better man then me. I'm like an addict who can't stop himself, I will watch them until the bitter end as I do every year.

SnyderSucks wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:What can a new QB do if he doesn't have protection. MUST GO O LINE!!!

Agreed. Look at what Denver is doing with Orton. Denver widely regarded as having the best young bookend tackles in the league.

You say that like Orton is a bum compared to Campbell or even worse than Campbell. HE ISN"T! He is a better QB.

Yes he has more talent around him, (now) but he is clearly better than JC and I can't see why people treat him like garbage. He is 22 and 12 as a starting QB. That is well above 500, something JC has never seen.

Orton had less talent around him in Chicago, but still out produced JC.

That said JC didn't cost us the game, he did nothing to help us win the game except throw one pass the DT should have caught even though it was a little long and the DB started tackling him before the ball got there. I thought for certain the refs would have to call that, but they didn't'. Heck after Moss was molested his entire route on a pass to the endzone in the first half, I knew we weren't going to get any calls.

The OL is bad, good QBs at least make some plays behind a bad line! Great QBs play great no matter what line they have in front of them. But I would have settled for an average performance by a QB today.

This one falls mostly on the ST (the long kick return gave Carolina life!)AND the fact that it is OK in the NFL to grab a hold of a small DB and carry him over five yards down field and steer so that you can run through the punt returner with him like he is a blocking sled. Westbrook had no shot! BMitch said he should have dropped to the ground. He couldn't, the guy was holding him up! BMitch said he should have been more than five yards from the returner. He was when he started blocking! I'm sorry, I don't care what the rule says, thatwas the kicking team directly interferimg with a fair catch. The kicking team isn't allowed to hamper a returner ability to field a punt if that returner has called for a fair catch and that should include running over the returner with one of his team mates your holding like a police riot shield!

As great as the D played, a stop when it counted would have been nice! Yes, I know they were almost solely responsible for 14 out of the 17 points scored and I will take some heat for this, but how many times have you seen our D play well for say 80-90% of the game, but just not when it counts! More often then I would like to remember! I would rather them be like JC last week and play like crap, but then turn it on when it counts.

here we go lol...


The D is a bend not break system. they give ground then make plays, say the opponent started at their 20 and punted at their 40 the O gets it say, at the 20, they go 3 n out they kick from there now they get good field pos, and the D gives more ground, made them punt until the O gives up a safety, then it starts all over again. The D cannot hold. At first I was thinking the same as you, that they couldn't protect the daggone lead, but then you notice the CB's are 5-10 yds off the WR's and then I realized what and why. This style of D NEEDS an offense that can move the ball.

Saw the game. Not pretty. Way too many talent gaps at various positions. Offense is in need of an overhaul. The D can hold, but not for long.

As I said a few weeks back, this team is about to implode. Maybe we beat KC, and that would be fooling ourselves about all the problems this organization has.

GM needs to go. Everyopne on this board could see we needed an Oline after the end of last season. We got a few decent backups and that's it. There's no quality depth to protect the QB, which is no John Elway.

Portis will be furious this week. Dude is clearly not happy in this team.

Zorn will leave soon.

I just watched the Colts/Titans game on TV .. every time manning leads that offense out onto the field you expect them to score... when was the last time you could say that about the skins?

campbell is probably an 'ok' qb .. one thing he is not is a 'game winner'

simple fact now is that if a team scores 20 points against us , they will win. Until that fact changes we are stuffed

I am downsizing my expectations for the season. In week 1, I was hoping Super Bowl. After week 2, I was hoping playoffs. Now, I just hope that we beat Dallas.

It is time to start over. The team is simply too thin on offense. Young WRs aren't there yet. Portis cannot provide a spark and cannot move the pile. Moss is a non-factor in most games. "Star power" ain't doing anything for us. I want a blue collar team. Cut or trade all the high priced stars. Trade high first round pick for a couple of second round picks. Start building through the draft. Let's get some guys who can win the wars in the trenches. At least the good news is that we will be able to re-sign Campbell cheap at the end of the season.

Haynesworth has helped on defense, but we overpaid. We always overpay.

Maybe we can bring back Marty?

I'm not one of those people who thinks they can do it better than the pro's. No matter how awesome my understanding of football strategy might be, I still believe that if there is a stupid play call or bad decision made that they know a lot more than me about whats going down there and the game of football in general. That being said, there is one undebatable fact. The Greatest Sports Franchise on the planet Freaking sucks at playing football right now and it's breaking my heart. We can bicker about blame all day but all decisions go through the Boss so that's where the blame should lay. Its a bad team filled with talented players. They seem to play hard, it's just not working. If we let JC go I gaurantee that he goes somewhere and does pretty well. Haynesworth crushes people for the Titans, with the Skins he's on one knee after every play. We have had one glimmer of hope in 8 years and then some yack off shoots him in the leg. IN THE LEG!!! Thats where you shoot someone when you DONT want to kill them, and it took one of the only hard nose true redskins left. What the H man? And you can't question DS's ability as a business man cause he's proved to be really good at making money but as for being able to read players and coaches and predict if they will work well together, I'm less than impressed. The fact is that we just play boring football, we get no air time on ESPN cause we're not exciting. Tony Romo farts on a blonde in Dallas and Rachael Nichols is doing a 30 minute special on it the next morning that runs for a week. It is killing me. I just want this black cloud to leave so I can see my team again.



Doug Williams owns John Elway!!!

Manchester_Redskin wrote:I just watched the Colts/Titans game on TV .. every time manning leads that offense out onto the field you expect them to score... when was the last time you could say that about the skins?

campbell is probably an 'ok' qb .. one thing he is not is a 'game winner'

simple fact now is that if a team scores 20 points against us , they will win. Until that fact changes we are stuffed

As much as everyone gets on Norv, the season prior to his firing, was the last time we won the NFC East, and we were the 2nd best offense in the league, only behind the greatest show on turf. The season he was fired, we were in a good spot for a wildcard.

Just like our dumb owner, many fans, esp. on this board, and many local radio personalities are impatient and want to blow everything up. That kind of talk is for people who think there are simple answers to complex problems. Yes, I'm saying Danny is a simpleton.

We weren't up yesterday 17-2 without good things being done, and that means players making plays and coaches making good decisions. Franchises turnaround be seeing through what everyone else thinks, and countering majority opinion.

The things I think we all can agree on:

- Danny and Vinny are terrible.
- Orakpo has a lot of talent
- London Fletcher is holding his own despite getting older
- Samuels is a Pro bowler, he has bad games here and there, but is our best lineman

Here are some things I think many people would disagree with:

- ey is overrated. He is a very good receiver, but a below average blocker. He probably has the potential to get better, but he doesn't. He doesn't seem to have the attitude either. It seems he makes plenty of TV and event appearances. Once he got his Pro Bowl, I seems that he feels like he doesn't have to work.
- Mike Sellers has gotten worse. Old highlights of him blowing up LBs are history. He seems to be a ghost lead blocker.
- CP and Moss are more divas than football players. Despite potential, there is a sense of entitlement. Perhaps has rubbed off on ey. Let's not kid ourselves about coaching, Gibbs may have cultivated this. Why would they listen to Zorn, when Gibbs/Snyder let them get away with anything.
- Rogers and Hall have some talent. Although Rogers can't catch, and Hall couldn't tackle Delhomme, they have seemed to get better week to week. They aren't great, but they probably can be taught to be better.
- Haynesworth, although overpriced, is making an impact. If a cap gets renewed is the only reason I'd consider getting rid of him.
- Jim Zorn is not even half way through his 2nd year. He has made mistakes, but give him a break, he has a terrible O-line, only one explosive player, but a QB that can't get it to him. He has even stated that he has to limit the playbook because of the lack of protection, and in my opinion, because of JC's abilities. Some erratic calls to me are an attempt to win, despite knowing you don't have the personnel to accomplish it traditionally. Are we going to boot someone considering the little of a chance and the bad situation we put him in?
- Greg Blache is too vanilla. Why is it trying something new to blitz with a CB? Everyone else does it. Orakpo can't cover but can pass rush, why put him man-to-man? At least let him play zone. Make blitzes unpredictable. He doesn't have the excuse of not having decent (not great) personnel.
- Doughty makes plays because on D, sometimes your head is better than your legs. We've lost players like Ryan Clarke and Antonio Pierce because of their lack of physical talent. They just happen to be staple starters on two of the best D's in the league since they left us. We need to evaluate talent on their smarts as well as their athleticism. Yesterday we lost our game for bringing up a practice team player who didn't use his head (stay away from the returner and the ball when blocking a punt).

Blowing things up is an easy but ineffective solution, because how are you going to clean up, without tons of draft picks. I understand it might be just venting, but I'd rather not look back in a couple of seasons and sound like an idiot, "That guy sucked for us, when did he get good?"

mastdark81 wrote:

Jeremy81 wrote:i'm just waiting for us to trade a 1st round pick for brady quinn...that would be hilarious.

orakpo only makes plays at DE, so why is he in pass coverage?

Has anyone on this site seen jason campbell just take a three or five step drop and just freakin pass it without double clutching, scrambling out of the pocket or getting sacked?

If he's at LB smart teams will always find a way to get him AWAY from the quarterback and into coverage. I don't think he's bad at LB as he will need time, and obviously his strength is at DE and passrushing, but he should have had help on that TD pass from a safety. Anytime, the TE gets deeper downfield a safety should be involved as well. Just a good play call and enough protection on their part to execute.

You right things are never smooth with his pass plays. Some of it is his indecision, however for the most part I think it has something to do with the offensive line and them not protecting well or creating good passing lanes for him to throw in. Unfortunately this game when he went to scramble out of the pocket there was two or three guys waiting for him then the usual one guy he has to slip by.

Brian Orakpo is a Defensive End, period..... This organization is missing the boat on drafting and developing the next great Defensive End. Line him up next to Albert and let him do his thing. He will get bigger and stronger and will become what Dexter Manley was.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:What can a new QB do if he doesn't have protection. MUST GO O LINE!!!

Agreed. Look at what Denver is doing with Orton. Denver widely regarded as having the best young bookend tackles in the league.

You say that like Orton is a bum compared to Campbell or even worse than Campbell. HE ISN"T! He is a better QB.

Yes he has more talent around him, (now) but he is clearly better than JC and I can't see why people treat him like garbage. He is 22 and 12 as a starting QB. That is well above 500, something JC has never seen.

Orton had less talent around him in Chicago, but still out produced JC.

That said JC didn't cost us the game, he did nothing to help us win the game except throw one pass the DT should have caught even though it was a little long and the DB started tackling him before the ball got there. I thought for certain the refs would have to call that, but they didn't'. Heck after Moss was molested his entire route on a pass to the endzone in the first half, I knew we weren't going to get any calls.

The OL is bad, good QBs at least make some plays behind a bad line! Great QBs play great no matter what line they have in front of them. But I would have settled for an average performance by a QB today.

This one falls mostly on the ST (the long kick return gave Carolina life!)AND the fact that it is OK in the NFL to grab a hold of a small DB and carry him over five yards down field and steer so that you can run through the punt returner with him like he is a blocking sled. Westbrook had no shot! BMitch said he should have dropped to the ground. He couldn't, the guy was holding him up! BMitch said he should have been more than five yards from the returner. He was when he started blocking! I'm sorry, I don't care what the rule says, thatwas the kicking team directly interferimg with a fair catch. The kicking team isn't allowed to hamper a returner ability to field a punt if that returner has called for a fair catch and that should include running over the returner with one of his team mates your holding like a police riot shield!

As great as the D played, a stop when it counted would have been nice! Yes, I know they were almost solely responsible for 14 out of the 17 points scored and I will take some heat for this, but how many times have you seen our D play well for say 80-90% of the game, but just not when it counts! More often then I would like to remember! I would rather them be like JC last week and play like crap, but then turn it on when it counts.

This is the least factual post i've ever seen. If you look at Orton's numbers while he was with the bears compared to campbell's with the skins, campbell was better. I just posted this the other day. Did he win more games? yes. Was it because of him? No. NOW he is doing better than Campbell because he is surrounded with a lot of talent. This team needs O-linemen worse than a QB. Anyone who doesn't realize that is unaware of what a good O-line does. I'm not even sure Drew Brees could do anything behind this line. The pocket collapsed EVERY PLAY!

Even on running plays, other defenders consistently get pressure in our backfield.