The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

All I have to say, is that it is only week 1. And we played the Giants. The defending champs of the NFC East and with a nasty defense. Yeah there were things that we could and should have done better. But again. It's only week 1 and we weren't blown out or anything. Sucks we didn't win but it's not the end of our season.. There are 15 more games.

Moss got MANHANDLED by Webster. If he can't even get off the line of scrimmage against a CB, how can be in the league? Webster looks like King Kong compared to him. The giants had two corners hurt today, so it's pretty sad that Kelly/Thomas couldn't get open. Campbell made some msitakes holding the ball, especially the fumble, there was nobody near open on that play. He needed to just pull it down and run.

brad7686 wrote:Moss got MANHANDLED by Webster. If he can't even get off the line of scrimmage against a CB, how can be in the league? Webster looks like King Kong compared to him. The giants had two corners hurt today, so it's pretty sad that Kelly/Thomas couldn't get open. Campbell made some msitakes holding the ball, especially the fumble, there was nobody near open on that play. He needed to just pull it down and run.

I am hoping that he see's that more as an option on plays. I think he's scared to run the ball b/c Gibb's would have lost his mind if he did. He's got the speed and talent, we just need him to recognize when the opportunity presents himself.

ChocolateMilk wrote:All I have to say, is that it is only week 1. And we played the Giants. The defending champs of the NFC East and with a nasty defense. Yeah there were things that we could and should have done better. But again. It's only week 1 and we weren't blown out or anything. Sucks we didn't win but it's not the end of our season.. There are 15 more games.

That's very true, it is just the first game. But it's also true that this was about a mirror image of last year's opening day loss to the Giants. And it wasn't a "nasty defense" that stripped that ball loose and ran it back for a TD. It was Chicken Little laying another egg!

Did you not see the clip of the Giants defense on the sideline last year laughing .. saying 16 total yards of offense hohohoh.. with another chiming in ... that's 16 too many hahahahah.

Right now, we're once again the cellar dwellers, and Philly, Dallas and NY are up one game.

We have a very mild schedule the first half, and then it gets much tougher. I suspect that we can manage to come out of the first 8 games at 5-3 without any major improvement on offense, by riding the defense. But then what? Everyone will wonder why we finish the second half at 3-5. I'm sorry, but I see little difference between 8-8 and 4-12. Both stink. Last Place is Last Place.

Where is the fire? The Redskin defense held the Giants to 16 points. The Redskin defense gave the offense the ball on the Giant's 11 yard line, and they laid an egg and kicked a 3 pointer. Between that 4 point loss, and the fumble returned for a TD, the Redskin offense managed to give up almost as many points as it scored, and the last TD was a junk score.

"Wait till next week" stops when? This is just more of the same ole same old.

The bottom line is we are not in the NFC West. We're in the East, and that means we need to beat the Giants ... not just make excuses for losing to them year after year.

OK. I know there is a lot of doom and gloom going on, but let me give an objectionable point of view.

1. I felt our defense spent too much time on the field. They did come up with some nice stops in short yardage, but they spent a lot of time on the field unable to get off of it.

2. We got our game in NY out of the way. We never play good there so I would rather get that game out of the way instead of having to play them in late December and having to come up with a victory to spawn a playoff birth.

3. The offense did have some bright spots although, overall, it didn't play that well. We have the ability to score points and I think we can do so in the coming weeks. Yes, we play St. Louis and and Detroit, but a W is a W as long as we can beat those teams.

4. JC had some mistakes today, but he did make some nice throws. He may not be a Brady or Brees, but he can be serviceable. IMO, he has 3 games left of which to prove himself before Collins is inserted to take his place.

5. It was the first game of the season so we have 15 more to go. We will be OK so please don't write the season off as it has just begun.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Zorn - Playcalling is still horrible. 2nd play of the game is one example. Plays with short WR's in the redzone and excluding our TALL WR's is inexcusable.

Mostly agree. Zorn appeared not to really trust his QB, opting for the run too much in the redzone, even though it wasn't working.

Jason Campbell - Needs to be benched. Horrible QB, disgustingly terrible. He feminine behind needs to feel like a used tishue. He's just not an intelligent QB, he cannot comprehend/read defenses fast enough to make up for that atrociously slow release.

Too soon for the panic button. JC wasn't great, or even good, but it's one game against an elite defense.

CP - A beast

He had one good run and the rest were a bunch of 1 or 2 yard falls into the pile. Part of that's on the O-line, who didn't really open any holes. The run game was pretty much stuffed this game.

Cooley - Reliable but needs to get his head in the game, he drops too many passes.

He's "reliable" but also "drops too many passes"? Which is it?

WR Corp - Solid. ARE looks good. Kelly is good but not used at all. Thomas is used on retarded plays.

ARE owned the slot - that's a mismatch you've got to exploit until it's not working for you anymore. The rest of the WRs had a total of 3 catches - that's not solid, that's weak.

Horton - A MONSTER

He was decent early on, but why was he benched later in the game, and Doughtry was put out there? Was he injured or something? I missed it.

Landry - Overrated. He's leaping and diving everywhere and hitting nothing. Nice tip tho. Gets beat often. A bit too cocky for what he's been doing.

One bad game, but he needs to cut out the mental errors. They're close to becoming a habit.

Hall aka Deoin Sanders aka I'm scared to tackle.

And he wasn't that great in coverage either. All the CBs were playing with far too much cushion.

Albert - BEASTLY

He was out far too often, and while he clogged up the middle, he got no sacks, and the D still allowed over 100 yards on the ground. AH was solid, but he's not being paid all that money to play "solid" - he's expected to give Eli bed-wetting nightmares, and he didn't.

ChocolateMilk wrote:All I have to say, is that it is only week 1. And we played the Giants. The defending champs of the NFC East and with a nasty defense. Yeah there were things that we could and should have done better. But again. It's only week 1 and we weren't blown out or anything. Sucks we didn't win but it's not the end of our season.. There are 15 more games.

Pretty much bro, we'll be straight as the season progresses

1. Running game was almost non-existent. I cringed everytime it was handed off. Seems like every running play we have is really slow to develop.

2. Neither team played well. We had a chance in spite of poor play. Have to believe we can make some adjustments and be ok this season. (fingers crossed)

3. We'll be ok.

we had the chance coz of our D, as bad as some of the series went, they still had takeaways that gave the offense a chance.

frankcal20 wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I think that NY won the game based on a few plays. That is what the game was based off of, a few plays. NY made all the plays and WE did not.

There are a lot of games left. JC will go back to the drawing board and playing against one of the better D-lines in the NFL, there will be a lot for this team to learn from. We play St. Louis next week and I feel very confident that we will show better next week with a win.

I seriously think you take crazy pills.

We were beat inside and out by the NYGs. The score may say we lost by 6, but I think everyone will agree that it was not even close.

And are saying that JC is going back to the drawing board again????? How many times have we heard this......

Mark,
This isn't my first football game. I do not scream DOOM AND GLOOM like most Redskins fans when our team doesn't do what they need to do. I can think of a few plays that cost us the game. Don't forget that the Giants also scored on a fluke play where they got a fumble return for a TD. So if you take that away along with the fake FG, we are only talking a few plays. Our Defense did a terrible job on the Manningham tackle or lack there of.

I would say that neither team played really that well at all but in the end, NY won. Regardless of what anyone things, if you watch the tape, a lot of guys played their hearts out and there were a select few that didn't give the effort that was needed to win. And that applies to both sides of the ball.

Frank,
This isn't your first game? You could have fooled me. I generally am not a doom and gloom guy unless there is a consistency related to the problems. We played exactly the same as we did last year. Our defense played adequately (giving up 16 points), while our offense was non-existent.

The NYGs did EXACTLY what they did last year to beat us and that was putting 8 in the box and forcing JC to make quick decisions. CP had no room to run and they played Moss well. They knew that JC doesn't have the ability to run the offense on his own. He doesn't have the ability to make plays like other good QBs. The only difference this year was our OL was able to hold off a very good pass rush (arguably the best in the league) --- but JC still couldn't make plays with the extra time.

Also, that fumble may to you seem like a fluke play, but in reality that is the essence of football. TOs and big plays are what make games. The fumble was prompted by JC holding onto the ball (which is a common occurence) and the fact that JC doesn't have the pocket presence to step up into the pocket or make the quick decision to throw it away (another common problem). So, it may have been a "fluke" in that it doesn't happen on every play, but it wasn't a fluke in that the direct results stemmed from common problems JC has as a QB. Didn't JC have a fumble problem 2 years ago? Well he had 2 yesterday.

In terms of saying the defense attributed to the loss.....do you think that our defense should give up less than 16 ppg? Personally, 16 ppg is adequate (on average). Our offense only scored 3 relevant points (that weren't scored on a prevent defense). I will give you 6 points for the fake fg. That is atrocious. JUST LIKE LAST YEAR. This team has the inability to score points. This has been the common theme for 11 STRAIGHT games now. Did the D play perfectly --- No --- but they played well enough to win a game. Our O didn't.

Now, I do think that we will win our next couple games --- since we are playing high school teams, but if we continue to play like we are, and we continue to provide rinky dink excuses for our insanely bad offense, we will never be able to beat the RELEVANT teams in the league.

If you think that this game was as close as the score indicates, I'll have a little of what you're taking.

Since people on here seem to care so much about what the dumb media says, here is a link to a foxsports page written by some dude that seems to agree with the fact this game wasn't close:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/1006 ... kins-brawl

CP not getting his carries was an artifact of having a bad first half and having to play catch up.

our O line looked good. (a nice suprise)

our D looked good against a powerful O. we got turn overs, so thats new.

our recievers looked good, but a couple dropped passes.

BUT the issue is JC and zorn. bad play calling and JC is a moron.

I cant believe im saying this but im ready to have TC step up and play qb.

zorn needs to run CP a lot and pass down field.

no more screen passes on the goal line.

Offense:

JZ, call the plays right or get someone who can. If they stuff the run (wow, what a stretch, the Giants tough against the run ). Take away the first run, CP was 15 for 28. That's less than 2 yds/carry. PASS THE DAMN BALL. High percentage plays are needed to boost some confidence, and a WR screen vs the Giants IS NOT HIGH PERCENTAGE.

We will see big things from ARE in the slot this year. He looked the best he ever had in burgundy and gold IMO.

Offensive played good? I might have to go back and see what game I was watching. Three sacks (I still give at least partial 'credit' to the o-line), a fumble, and taking away our first run, CP was 15 for 28 yds. Yes, less than 2 yds a carry after that. How on God's green earth is that 'good oline play?!?!?!!?'

We do not have that killer instinct. PERIOD. Rewatch the game. ARE catches be ball and falls down more times than not. Moss's only positive catch, falls down. Portis, wrap the ball up with two hands, lower your head. Don't try to break tackles and keep going, just low and fall. Cooley is the only one I've seen with a killer instinct on offense. Until that killer instinct returns to EVERYONE that touches the ball, then we're destined for mediocrity at best.

Defense:

Don't blame the corners for being 10yds off the ball, that's Blache's scheme, not the corners' choice.

Laron, take your cape off, there's no flying superheroes on the field. Two occasions I can recall him leaing his feet to deliver a blow, only to miss.

I don't know why we have Carter on strong side DE. Again, I know this is Blache, but he gets run over on the weak side and now we're moving him around playing on string side? wow...

Tackling was atrocious in the secondary. I saw Fletcher and Rocky in on some good plays, but other than them, <puke>

Defense was so worried about Jacobs between the tackles, that Bradshaw was killing us outside. Containment and gap integrity.


With all that aside, it is week 1. The Giants Defense is sick and easily a top 3 defense. There is a long uphill battle, but it can be done. We came away without injury which is good in this physical game. Let's hope to start bulding success beginning with this coming Sunday.

I agree with the posts questioning the play-calling, despite the fact some of you have said that's not fair to do. As stated already, 3 straight runs from inside our own 5 yard line against a top flight run defense to me is scared play-calling and it pur our D back out there fighting a Giant Offense with a short field. When fans can predict 90% of the plays being run without doing film study what do you think other teams defenses can do?


Also, I think Jason's performance was mediocre, not terrible and certainly not good. He can't trhow a deep ball with any accuracy which makes it hard to stretch the field but i would like to see more intermediate routes (I think he's very very good here). Also, why we didn't keep exploiting the middle of the field with empty seats is beyond me or even with 1 back in to help protect. Everytime we did that we had success, keep doing it until the Giants take it away, don't take it away for them.


Also, I disagree about our D playing that good. They too, were mediocre in my opinion. Couldn't get off the field on 3rd downs (same as last year), very little pressure from our pass rush and our corners I fear are not that good. I've felt all off-season we would miss Springs (despite his injuries) and if week 1 was any indication than i'm not optimistic about their play. D. Hall and Smoot are both over-rated in my opinion. We don't have a physical corner to play bump and run or press coverage and it kills us on 3rd downs. When Hall attempted to jam Steve Smith late in the game on 3rd down he completely whiffed and let the Giants off the hook when we could have gotten the ball back with good field position. I'd like to see more blitzing on 3rd downs.


Another thing still missing is a vocal leader, Haynesworth doesn't seem to play with passion (something i'd like to see form the highest paid player on the team). We need someone on both sides of the ball who can get this team fired up and play with an attitude that's infectious.

Hey guys, new to the site

First, yesterday was not as bad as many are seeing this. Campbell was absolutely mediocre and had terrible pocket awareness. The fumble was his fault. There was a pocket. If it were not for him taking a 10 step drop the play could have developed.

Second, Campbell looked a little better in the pre-season because zorn opened up the playbook to meet campbells strengths. As soon as the season starts we go back to the short stuff. Campbell obviously can't not succeed in that because he cant make decisions that quick.

Defensively I thought we were pretty solid against the run. The secondary was very questionable, especially deangelo hall. I didnt get to worried when randy moss killed him, because he is what he is. But Hall was getting torched yesterday by receivers that shouldnt even be starting. This is a major concern of mine. People do not like to criticize him because of his contract and high profile name.

Bottom line, the giants are good. Really they are a better team than us top to bottom. Lets go and get these next three games and try to turn this thing to the right direction.

Here are just a few stat's to look at from the game that hopefully will help my point. The TEAM didn't do what they needed to.

Time of Possession: Wash: 23:52 NY: 36:08

Punts: Wash: 5 NY: 1


I can't seem to find what the average starting field position was as well but I'm sure that also will be a huge difference. All in all, we gave up to many long 3rd down conversion in the passing game while our offense didn't make any plays on 3rd down. We can all say that play calling was bad but I saw guys straight up get beat. So I hang that on the players.

duplicate entry.....

VetSkinsFan wrote:Offense:

JZ, call the plays right or get someone who can. If they stuff the run (wow, what a stretch, the Giants tough against the run ). Take away the first run, CP was 15 for 28. That's less than 2 yds/carry. PASS THE DAMN BALL. High percentage plays are needed to boost some confidence, and a WR screen vs the Giants IS NOT HIGH PERCENTAGE.

We will see big things from ARE in the slot this year. He looked the best he ever had in burgundy and gold IMO.

Offensive played good? I might have to go back and see what game I was watching. Three sacks (I still give at least partial 'credit' to the o-line), a fumble, and taking away our first run, CP was 15 for 28 yds. Yes, less than 2 yds a carry after that. How on God's green earth is that 'good oline play?!?!?!!?'

We do not have that killer instinct. PERIOD. Rewatch the game. ARE catches be ball and falls down more times than not. Moss's only positive catch, falls down. Portis, wrap the ball up with two hands, lower your head. Don't try to break tackles and keep going, just low and fall. Cooley is the only one I've seen with a killer instinct on offense. Until that killer instinct returns to EVERYONE that touches the ball, then we're destined for mediocrity at best.

Defense:

Don't blame the corners for being 10yds off the ball, that's Blache's scheme, not the corners' choice.

Laron, take your cape off, there's no flying superheroes on the field. Two occasions I can recall him leaing his feet to deliver a blow, only to miss.

I don't know why we have Carter on strong side DE. Again, I know this is Blache, but he gets run over on the weak side and now we're moving him around playing on string side? wow...

Tackling was atrocious in the secondary. I saw Fletcher and Rocky in on some good plays, but other than them, <puke>

Defense was so worried about Jacobs between the tackles, that Bradshaw was killing us outside. Containment and gap integrity.


With all that aside, it is week 1. The Giants Defense is sick and easily a top 3 defense. There is a long uphill battle, but it can be done. We came away without injury which is good in this physical game. Let's hope to start bulding success beginning with this coming Sunday.

All good points, especially regarding the run game. CP's runs included the 34 yarder, a 6 yarder, and then nothing over 3 yards. The run game just wasn't there. The Giants D was just daring the 'skins to beat them with the pass, and the 'skins just backed down from the challenge. I don't think Zorn trusts JC.

Mursilis wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:Offense:

JZ, call the plays right or get someone who can. If they stuff the run (wow, what a stretch, the Giants tough against the run :roll: ). Take away the first run, CP was 15 for 28. That's less than 2 yds/carry. PASS THE DAMN BALL. High percentage plays are needed to boost some confidence, and a WR screen vs the Giants IS NOT HIGH PERCENTAGE.

We will see big things from ARE in the slot this year. He looked the best he ever had in burgundy and gold IMO.

Offensive played good? I might have to go back and see what game I was watching. Three sacks (I still give at least partial 'credit' to the o-line), a fumble, and taking away our first run, CP was 15 for 28 yds. Yes, less than 2 yds a carry after that. How on God's green earth is that 'good oline play?!?!?!!?'

We do not have that killer instinct. PERIOD. Rewatch the game. ARE catches be ball and falls down more times than not. Moss's only positive catch, falls down. Portis, wrap the ball up with two hands, lower your head. Don't try to break tackles and keep going, just low and fall. Cooley is the only one I've seen with a killer instinct on offense. Until that killer instinct returns to EVERYONE that touches the ball, then we're destined for mediocrity at best.

Defense:

Don't blame the corners for being 10yds off the ball, that's Blache's scheme, not the corners' choice.

Laron, take your cape off, there's no flying superheroes on the field. Two occasions I can recall him leaing his feet to deliver a blow, only to miss.

I don't know why we have Carter on strong side DE. Again, I know this is Blache, but he gets run over on the weak side and now we're moving him around playing on string side? wow...

Tackling was atrocious in the secondary. I saw Fletcher and Rocky in on some good plays, but other than them, <puke>

Defense was so worried about Jacobs between the tackles, that Bradshaw was killing us outside. Containment and gap integrity.


With all that ;furious; aside, it is week 1. The Giants Defense is sick and easily a top 3 defense. There is a long uphill battle, but it can be done. We came away without injury which is good in this physical game. Let's hope to start bulding success beginning with this coming Sunday.

HTTR

All good points, especially regarding the run game. CP's runs included the 34 yarder, a 6 yarder, and then nothing over 3 yards. The run game just wasn't there. The Giants D was just daring the 'skins to beat them with the pass, and the 'skins just backed down from the challenge. I don't think Zorn trusts JC.

If Zorn doesn't trust JC, why are they sticking with him then. Why is Zorn allowing a QB he doesn't trust to determine his fate as a head coach in the NFL? I think he does trust him but I think that Zorn may be so afraid of what bad can happen then what good could come of a play. I think we played very timid on offense and there was a good amount of frustration shown yesterday. I would like to see a bit more downfield shots but I also think the QB needs time in the pocket. He was hit waaaay too much yesterday. He also needs to recognize a player is open before he gets open b/c by the time everything happens, the player is no longer open.

frankcal20 wrote:I can't seem to find what the average starting field position was as well but I'm sure that also will be a huge difference.

It would be badly skewed by Hall's INT.

Our O-Line looked bad. JC had no time to throw the ball. When JC fummbled the ball our Pro-bowl LT missed the block! What a freaken mess that first half. We looked much better the 2nd half.

cowboyhater4life wrote:Our O-Line looked bad. JC had no time to throw the ball. When JC fummbled the ball our Pro-bowl LT missed the block!

No he didn't. JC didn't step up into the pocket. OTs always drive their man deep. The QB has to step up into the pocket and deliver the ball.

Samuals was beat on a speed rush b/c the defender ran around him. But, JC should have stepped up. I don't think anyone thinks that he shouldn't. Even JC knows he should of but that 1 play did not cost us the game. It was a culmination of a lot of games.

cowboyhater4life wrote:Our O-Line looked bad. JC had no time to throw the ball. When JC fummbled the ball our Pro-bowl LT missed the block! What a freaken mess that first half. We looked much better the 2nd half.

No he didn't. Samuels did what he was supposed to and pushed Osi up field, rightfully expecting his qb to step up in the pocket. Samuels said as much during his post game interview.

I think that the biggest problem with the loss is that we LOST to the GIANTS. One of our division rivals. Most would have thought that we would have lost. We could have won, but I said to everyone at my house yesterday that we probably were not going to win. The Giants are a legit team that is a contender for the SB - and to win. I think more than anything, we would have liked to see some better execution from individual players but again, it's game 1. Zorn said today at his press conference that this is the first game where all the players played together for an extended period of time. Of course we are going to see issues. I would like to see us next offseason, get our stars in the games more in the preseason.

frankcal20 wrote:Zorn said today at his press conference that this is the first game where all the players played together for an extended period of time.

It's the exact same situation for 31 other teams. It just sucks because we played right into their game plan. We seem to do that every time we play them.