The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Did you all see BIG RED ALBRIGHT making a tackle on that one punt?

It was pretty cool to see.........

I've watched a few pre-season games so far, and I am starting to see where all the naysayers are coming from. Did anyone watch Sanchez and the Jets? OMFG, he was on his stuff. The Ravens 1st team, clickin like it's cool.

I didn't see very much of our 1st (or any thereafter, really) team clickin like the other teams. I realize that there is still a lot of pre-season, but I've got to admit, it sure would be nice to see our 1st team click. I don't think we saw the offense click very much last year at all, and some teams can get it in the first pre-season.

My disclaimer: I am still cautiously optimistic about this year, but if we don't start seeing some competency and cohesion by week 3, SOME type of improvement, I will really have doubts about this year. You can't come out and play like a 3 ring circus for 4 weeks, and then BAM, you're slicing bread a new way...it just doesn't happen.

my

VetSkinsFan wrote:I've watched a few pre-season games so far, and I am starting to see where all the naysayers are coming from. Did anyone watch Sanchez and the Jets? OMFG, he was on his stuff. he Ravens 1st team, clickin like it's cool.

I didn't see very much of our 1st (or any thereafter, really) team clickin like the other teams. I realize that there is still a lot of pre-season, but I've got to admit, it sure would be nice to see our 1st team click. I don't think we saw the offense click very much last year at all, and some teams can get it in the first pre-season.

My disclaimer: I am still cautiously optimistic about this year, but if we don't start seeing some competency and cohesion by week 3, SOME type of improvement, I will really have doubts about this year. You can't come out and play like a 3 ring circus for 4 weeks, and then BAM, you're slicing bread a new way...it just doesn't happen.

my

How about we wait until the first team actually plays before we start worrying too much? R. Thomas, Portis, Moss, Haynesworth, Rogers. None of them played. I watched the replay last night. Campbell was 3-6. The 3 incompletions - 1 intentionally thrown away, 1 he was hit as he threw, and the third was a little high and dropped by a guy who won't make the team who mistimed his jump. The "starting" defense only played one series. Meanwhile, Flacco, who according to some on here is perfect, nearly threw an interception on his first pass.

Looking at who we play in the preseason, there is a very good chance the Redskins lose all their games. Glad the regular season doesn't have these teams. Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Saints.

I'll accept that, but I have a feeling this subject will surface again...make sure you're there then, too.

IMO there's just very little you can learn from the first pre-season game, to me it feels like a more formal version of training camp. Would you like to see nothing but positive returns across the board? Absolutely but it's just way too early for this team -- or any team for that matter -- to push the panic button. For the record, yes, my reaction would essentially be the same if they had won 28-3.

Fios wrote:IMO there's just very little you can learn from the first pre-season game, to me it feels like a more formal version of training camp. Would you like to see nothing but positive returns across the board? Absolutely but it's just way too early for this team -- or any team for that matter -- to push the panic button. For the record, yes, my reaction would essentially be the same if they had won 28-3.

Who's panicking? I even stated MYSELF that there's a lot of preseason left. There's no room for improvement? I think I gave both ups AND downs on the game...

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Fios wrote:IMO there's just very little you can learn from the first pre-season game, to me it feels like a more formal version of training camp. Would you like to see nothing but positive returns across the board? Absolutely but it's just way too early for this team -- or any team for that matter -- to push the panic button. For the record, yes, my reaction would essentially be the same if they had won 28-3.

Who's panicking?

I'm speaking in general, I like to think of myself as a lecturer

Fios wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Fios wrote:IMO there's just very little you can learn from the first pre-season game, to me it feels like a more formal version of training camp. Would you like to see nothing but positive returns across the board? Absolutely but it's just way too early for this team -- or any team for that matter -- to push the panic button. For the record, yes, my reaction would essentially be the same if they had won 28-3.

Who's panicking?

I'm speaking in general, I like to think of myself as a lecturer :D

I can see it now...

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:One thing I am seeing again this year is excuses for Campbell. Isn't it time that he is given credit for his play rather than blaming it on the number of different schemes he has been in, the poor O-line, just a preseason game, etc, etc, etc. Is there anyone that wouldn't trade Campbell and Collins plus a couple other players for Flacco? Campbell has had what? 4 years and Flacco one. There was no question last night who was the real NFL quarterback. I wish we had one.

Flacco 60% passing, 2900 yard, 14 td's, 12 picks, 11 fumbles, 32 sacks
Campbell 63% passing, 3200 yards, 13 td's, 6 picks, 7 fumbles, 38 sacks
Yep, Flacco is a massive improvement over Campbell.

In my opinion, put Cambell on the 91 team, and his numbers are as good or better than Rypiens. Campbell can be good enough to win with given a supporting cast.

Thanks for proving my point. Flacco was a rookie quarterback, Campbell was a 4 - 5 year veteran who was only marginally better.

Countertrey wrote:

Fios wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Fios wrote:IMO there's just very little you can learn from the first pre-season game, to me it feels like a more formal version of training camp. Would you like to see nothing but positive returns across the board? Absolutely but it's just way too early for this team -- or any team for that matter -- to push the panic button. For the record, yes, my reaction would essentially be the same if they had won 28-3.

Who's panicking?

I'm speaking in general, I like to think of myself as a lecturer :D

I can see it now...

... though he and I have somewhat divergent views on evolution

I'm just about through the first qtr watching the game...

My thoughts...


1. TRYON IS GARBAGE
2. D Hall looks great
3. Renaldo is too slow to chase RB's
4. Ravens were BLITZING SAFETIES for God's sake
5. On the Blitz ey got beat inside
6. Hagans sucks he should have caught that
7. Phillip Daniels is great but just a tad slow, he should have intercepted
the tip on the first play
8. TRYON is GARBAGE
9. 2nd Qtr now Reed D. just got stiff armed to the ground by W McGahee
10. TRYON is GARBAGE

Justin Tryon makes Ade Jimoh look like Champ Bailey

aswas71788 wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:One thing I am seeing again this year is excuses for Campbell. Isn't it time that he is given credit for his play rather than blaming it on the number of different schemes he has been in, the poor O-line, just a preseason game, etc, etc, etc. Is there anyone that wouldn't trade Campbell and Collins plus a couple other players for Flacco? Campbell has had what? 4 years and Flacco one. There was no question last night who was the real NFL quarterback. I wish we had one.

Flacco 60% passing, 2900 yard, 14 td's, 12 picks, 11 fumbles, 32 sacks
Campbell 63% passing, 3200 yards, 13 td's, 6 picks, 7 fumbles, 38 sacks
Yep, Flacco is a massive improvement over Campbell.

In my opinion, put Cambell on the 91 team, and his numbers are as good or better than Rypiens. Campbell can be good enough to win with given a supporting cast.

Thanks for proving my point. Flacco was a rookie quarterback, Campbell was a 4 - 5 year veteran who was only marginally better.

Why would you want to trade for an unproven player who put up numbers not as good as the guy you were unhappy with? He's played one season. How many QB's put up encouraging numbers in their first season, then slump after that? We haven't seen enough from Flacco to know one way or the other. Maybe he'll be great, maybe he'll be the next Derek Anderson. Campbell has improved every year. How about if we hope for the best rather than bashing him after a 6 pass outing? It's too late to change now.

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:One thing I am seeing again this year is excuses for Campbell. Isn't it time that he is given credit for his play rather than blaming it on the number of different schemes he has been in, the poor O-line, just a preseason game, etc, etc, etc. Is there anyone that wouldn't trade Campbell and Collins plus a couple other players for Flacco? Campbell has had what? 4 years and Flacco one. There was no question last night who was the real NFL quarterback. I wish we had one.

Flacco 60% passing, 2900 yard, 14 td's, 12 picks, 11 fumbles, 32 sacks
Campbell 63% passing, 3200 yards, 13 td's, 6 picks, 7 fumbles, 38 sacks
Yep, Flacco is a massive improvement over Campbell.

In my opinion, put Cambell on the 91 team, and his numbers are as good or better than Rypiens. Campbell can be good enough to win with given a supporting cast.

Thanks for proving my point. Flacco was a rookie quarterback, Campbell was a 4 - 5 year veteran who was only marginally better.

Why would you want to trade for an unproven player who put up numbers not as good as the guy you were unhappy with? He's played one season. How many QB's put up encouraging numbers in their first season, then slump after that? We haven't seen enough from Flacco to know one way or the other. Maybe he'll be great, maybe he'll be the next Derek Anderson. Campbell has improved every year. How about if we hope for the best rather than bashing him after a 6 pass outing? It's too late to change now.

I would much rather have Flacco as our qb than JC. It's not even close.

aswas71788 wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:One thing I am seeing again this year is excuses for Campbell. Isn't it time that he is given credit for his play rather than blaming it on the number of different schemes he has been in, the poor O-line, just a preseason game, etc, etc, etc. Is there anyone that wouldn't trade Campbell and Collins plus a couple other players for Flacco? Campbell has had what? 4 years and Flacco one. There was no question last night who was the real NFL quarterback. I wish we had one.

Flacco 60% passing, 2900 yard, 14 td's, 12 picks, 11 fumbles, 32 sacks
Campbell 63% passing, 3200 yards, 13 td's, 6 picks, 7 fumbles, 38 sacks
Yep, Flacco is a massive improvement over Campbell.

In my opinion, put Cambell on the 91 team, and his numbers are as good or better than Rypiens. Campbell can be good enough to win with given a supporting cast.

Thanks for proving my point. Flacco was a rookie quarterback, Campbell was a 4 - 5 year veteran who was only marginally better.

Your point is that you prefer a QB with less yards, twice as many picks, lower completion percentage, and 4 more fumbles? All this flacco love on this board is ridiculous, you guys jock him worse than you do big ben. And they are both marginal QB's that thrive off of excellent defenses. Who's next, Eli Manning? Maybe not with Plax gone. Goes to show you its not all the QB. If youre gonna jock somebody, jock Drew Brees. All Flacco did the other day was throw a couple 5 yard passes to a 6'6" guy and he threw a 2 yard screen pass that a RB, not Flacco, turned into a major gain, mostly because our defense blew one.

brad7686 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:One thing I am seeing again this year is excuses for Campbell. Isn't it time that he is given credit for his play rather than blaming it on the number of different schemes he has been in, the poor O-line, just a preseason game, etc, etc, etc. Is there anyone that wouldn't trade Campbell and Collins plus a couple other players for Flacco? Campbell has had what? 4 years and Flacco one. There was no question last night who was the real NFL quarterback. I wish we had one.

Flacco 60% passing, 2900 yard, 14 td's, 12 picks, 11 fumbles, 32 sacks
Campbell 63% passing, 3200 yards, 13 td's, 6 picks, 7 fumbles, 38 sacks
Yep, Flacco is a massive improvement over Campbell.

In my opinion, put Cambell on the 91 team, and his numbers are as good or better than Rypiens. Campbell can be good enough to win with given a supporting cast.

Thanks for proving my point. Flacco was a rookie quarterback, Campbell was a 4 - 5 year veteran who was only marginally better.

Your point is that you prefer a QB with less yards, twice as many picks, lower completion percentage, and 4 more fumbles? All this flacco love on this board is ridiculous, you guys jock him worse than you do big ben. And they are both marginal QB's that thrive off of excellent defenses. Who's next, Eli Manning? Maybe not with Plax gone. Goes to show you its not all the QB. If youre gonna jock somebody, jock Drew Brees. All Flacco did the other day was throw a couple 5 yard passes to a 6'6" guy and he threw a 2 yard screen pass that a RB, not Flacco, turned into a major gain, mostly because our defense blew one.

Big Ben may not be great, but he's hard to bring down, and he has that comeback quality, that I've never quite gotten from Campbell. Maybe New Orleans, last year.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:One thing I am seeing again this year is excuses for Campbell. Isn't it time that he is given credit for his play rather than blaming it on the number of different schemes he has been in, the poor O-line, just a preseason game, etc, etc, etc. Is there anyone that wouldn't trade Campbell and Collins plus a couple other players for Flacco? Campbell has had what? 4 years and Flacco one. There was no question last night who was the real NFL quarterback. I wish we had one.

Flacco 60% passing, 2900 yard, 14 td's, 12 picks, 11 fumbles, 32 sacks
Campbell 63% passing, 3200 yards, 13 td's, 6 picks, 7 fumbles, 38 sacks
Yep, Flacco is a massive improvement over Campbell.

In my opinion, put Cambell on the 91 team, and his numbers are as good or better than Rypiens. Campbell can be good enough to win with given a supporting cast.

Thanks for proving my point. Flacco was a rookie quarterback, Campbell was a 4 - 5 year veteran who was only marginally better.

Why would you want to trade for an unproven player who put up numbers not as good as the guy you were unhappy with? He's played one season. How many QB's put up encouraging numbers in their first season, then slump after that? We haven't seen enough from Flacco to know one way or the other. Maybe he'll be great, maybe he'll be the next Derek Anderson. Campbell has improved every year. How about if we hope for the best rather than bashing him after a 6 pass outing? It's too late to change now.

I would much rather have Flacco as our qb than JC. It's not even close.

Agreed, Campbell sucks. Dude can't throw the deep ball, has a wind up like Nolan Ryan (no offense to Nolan) and shows absolutely ZERO emotion.

ATX_Skins wrote:Agreed, Campbell sucks. Dude can't throw the deep ball, has a wind up like Nolan Ryan (no offense to Nolan) and shows absolutely ZERO emotion.

That is exactly the problem with JC. He throws the deep ball with no loft for the receiver to run under. With JC he either nails the receiver or it's incomplete (or worse). Ryan is actually trying not to be hit, the problem is JC is supposed to be trying to be caught.

And they are both marginal QB's that thrive off of excellent defenses.

Big Ben is certainly not a marginal qb.

brad7686 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:One thing I am seeing again this year is excuses for Campbell. Isn't it time that he is given credit for his play rather than blaming it on the number of different schemes he has been in, the poor O-line, just a preseason game, etc, etc, etc. Is there anyone that wouldn't trade Campbell and Collins plus a couple other players for Flacco? Campbell has had what? 4 years and Flacco one. There was no question last night who was the real NFL quarterback. I wish we had one.

Flacco 60% passing, 2900 yard, 14 td's, 12 picks, 11 fumbles, 32 sacks
Campbell 63% passing, 3200 yards, 13 td's, 6 picks, 7 fumbles, 38 sacks
Yep, Flacco is a massive improvement over Campbell.

In my opinion, put Cambell on the 91 team, and his numbers are as good or better than Rypiens. Campbell can be good enough to win with given a supporting cast.

Thanks for proving my point. Flacco was a rookie quarterback, Campbell was a 4 - 5 year veteran who was only marginally better.

Your point is that you prefer a QB with less yards

JC had less than 300 more yards more than Flacco despite attempting 78 more passes. Flacco also had a higher yards per attempt average than JC.

twice as many picks

Who cares? People rave about JC's low interception numbers from last but it was low because he was tentative and afraid to take chances, one of the many reasons why our O was garbage last year. All qb's throw interceptions. Brees threw 17 last year, Warner 14, and Peyton threw 12, the same number as Flacco.

lower completion percentage

JC's completion percentage was 62 percent, Flacco's 60 percent, despite Flacco averaging more yards per attempt.

Stats also don't tell the entire story. Flacco, last year and this year, looked more comfortable in the pocket than JC, has a quicker release, and looks more decisive in reading the D and getting rid of the ball, despite being a rookie. The fact that we are even comparing JC's fourth year in the NFL to that of a rookie is a pretty good indicator of how much JC has underachieved.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

And they are both marginal QB's that thrive off of excellent defenses.

Big Ben is certainly not a marginal qb.

I agree, Big Ben makes plays happen and moves extremely well in the pocket for a big QB. He throws kinda funny looking but had no problem hitting Sweed deep down the sideline the other night. Not sure I have ever, seriously ever seen Campbell complete a good looking dep pass hitting a reciever in stride. If someone has please remind me.

Deadskins wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:One thing I am seeing again this year is excuses for Campbell. Isn't it time that he is given credit for his play rather than blaming it on the number of different schemes he has been in, the poor O-line, just a preseason game, etc, etc, etc. Is there anyone that wouldn't trade Campbell and Collins plus a couple other players for Flacco? Campbell has had what? 4 years and Flacco one. There was no question last night who was the real NFL quarterback. I wish we had one.

Flacco 60% passing, 2900 yard, 14 td's, 12 picks, 11 fumbles, 32 sacks
Campbell 63% passing, 3200 yards, 13 td's, 6 picks, 7 fumbles, 38 sacks
Yep, Flacco is a massive improvement over Campbell.

In my opinion, put Cambell on the 91 team, and his numbers are as good or better than Rypiens. Campbell can be good enough to win with given a supporting cast.

Thanks for proving my point. Flacco was a rookie quarterback, Campbell was a 4 - 5 year veteran who was only marginally better.

Your point is that you prefer a QB with less yards, twice as many picks, lower completion percentage, and 4 more fumbles? All this flacco love on this board is ridiculous, you guys jock him worse than you do big ben. And they are both marginal QB's that thrive off of excellent defenses. Who's next, Eli Manning? Maybe not with Plax gone. Goes to show you its not all the QB. If youre gonna jock somebody, jock Drew Brees. All Flacco did the other day was throw a couple 5 yard passes to a 6'6" guy and he threw a 2 yard screen pass that a RB, not Flacco, turned into a major gain, mostly because our defense blew one.

Big Ben may not be great, but he's hard to bring down, and he has that comeback quality, that I've never quite gotten from Campbell. Maybe New Orleans, last year.

Yea, I don't mean to say that Ben or Flacco are bad, they aren't, I'm just saying that people on this board act like they are well above league average, which couldn't be farther from the truth. They are average. The inaccuracy of the comments annoys me to no end. I would simply prefer that Qb's be praised on this board for actually accomplishing something besides doing nothing for three quarters, scoring a td on your last drive, winning because your d held the other team to 3 points, and being mislabeled as a hero with an ability to come back in games.

Not sure if you remember the superbowl but the Steelers were not exactly able to stop the Cards offense either. Big Ben had a game winning drive that he commanded. Taking control of a team and having players "play" for you is what is important. Matt Ryan had his guys on board as well as Flacco. Big Ben has always had control. Campbell, not so much....

ATX_Skins wrote:Not sure if you remember the superbowl but the Steelers were not exactly able to stop the Cards offense either. Big Ben had a game winning drive that he commanded. Taking control of a team and having players "play" for you is what is important. Matt Ryan had his guys on board as well as Flacco. Big Ben has always had control. Campbell, not so much....

Any respectable QB can put some numbers up against Arizona. Even Campbell did. If I recall, the big play in the Super Bowl was a DEFENSIVE td.

Yea, I don't mean to say that Ben or Flacco are bad, they aren't, I'm just saying that people on this board act like they are well above league average, which couldn't be farther from the truth. They are average.

Big Ben is far above average. He's finished with a qb rating of 98 or higher three times already in his career and had a qb rating of 104.1 in 2007, throwing 32 td's and completing 65.3 percent of his passes. That is not average. He's had one bad season as a starter, but that came the season after his motorcycle crash and it was obvious that he wasn't himself that year.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Yea, I don't mean to say that Ben or Flacco are bad, they aren't, I'm just saying that people on this board act like they are well above league average, which couldn't be farther from the truth. They are average.

Big Ben is far above average. He's finished with a qb rating of 98 or higher three times already in his career and had a qb rating of 104.1 in 2007, throwing 32 td's and completing 65.3 percent of his passes. That is not average. He's had one bad season as a starter, but that came the season after his motorcycle crash and it was obvious that he wasn't himself that year.

While I agree with your general tone (I think he's actually an excellent QB), he's had 2 bad seasons. Last year's regular season stats were pretty bad; 17 TDs and 15 INTs. Or to compare it to Campbell, 4 more TDs and 9 more INTs. Not good.