The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I like this move for several reasons:

1) Jansen was done as a starter at RT. I recently watched the replay of the Skins/Boys game on the NFl channel, where we lost to them. It was very clear that Jansen was toast on every play -- he is done IMHO. No exaggeration, JC was getting clobbered and rushed because of Jansen, mainly. Guys were running by him, over him, around him...it was pathetic. The bad part is -- he was getting bull rushed by an outside linebacker...

2) Moving Jansen to another position is risky as far as how good he'll be at that new position. It isn't like one position on the OL is like another. There aren't many 6'5"/6'6" centers.

3) They just raised the cap by quite a bit and I'd take the cap hit this year. I don't see anyone out there that would make us any better so let's use the extra cap dollars this year to move a costly vet -- who won't start anyway.

4) Let the younger guys be our backups. I'm guessing that Williams or Heyer start at RT and the "loser" of that battle, Bridges, Reinhart are our backups on game day. They'll pick a couple younger guys to fill out the 10 slots but 2 of them won't be active anyway.

5) It's really smart to continue every year to get younger and we really need to do that along the OL. I hate to say it but I'm thinking this is the last year for Randy Thomas...and the year after is the last year for Rabach. I don't have a problem with these get-younger moves.

I don't have a problem with these get-younger moves.

I really don't either, hopefully it makes us better, remember the pre-season vs. Carolina omg, that was the first hint that our Oline not to mention team as a whole had serious issues.

Californiaskin wrote:good riddence.............our line is better now that fricken Jon "broke down" Jansen and Pete"I cant block a lick" Kendall are gone........

Anyone thinking those jokers could start and or contribute anywhere else are crazy!

I was frankley sick of the Jansen crutch last year.......

WOW! Jon was our best RT last year. We still don't know who will replace him and if that guy will play half as well as Jansen.

But go ahead and be happy about this move.

This move is NOT ABOUT THIS YEAR! We cut him before June 1 so his whole prorated bonus hit the team this year and there is NO CAP HIT FOR NEXT YEAR.

From a performance and cap stand point this doesn't help us this year!!!!!!

The cap portion is indisputable and I'm sure plenty think that there is a performance advantage to releasing him, but I don't see how anyone could think that.

Detroit obviously thought he was worth being on their team! My friend said as soon as he heard that we released Jon said that he hoped the Steelers signed him because he would improve their line. He is a huge Steelers fan, but an extremely well informed football fan and lives in this area. Now I'm not sure if he was thinking that Jon would be better than their starting RT or better than any back-up they have. But he was definitely hoping Jansen ended up trading burgundy for black.

skinsfan#33 wrote:e.

This move is NOT ABOUT THIS YEAR! We cut him before June 1 so his whole prorated bonus hit the team this year and there is NO CAP HIT FOR NEXT YEAR.

There is no June 1 cap rule this year, because there is currently no salary cap for next year. Unless they renegotiate the CBA, there will be no cap.

Jansen did have a workout bonus and a roster bonus due before the season started, so they avoid paying those by cutting him now.

fredp45 wrote:
1) Jansen was done as a starter at RT. I recently watched the replay of the Skins/Boys game on the NFl channel, where we lost to them. It was very clear that Jansen was toast on every play -- he is done IMHO. No exaggeration, JC was getting clobbered and rushed because of Jansen, mainly. Guys were running by him, over him, around him...it was pathetic. The bad part is -- he was getting bull rushed by an outside linebacker...

Yet they let him participate in the mini-camp and first round of OTAs, I'm sure the team saw some of the same things that yo did. If you are going to take the cap hit yo take it early, or you are just hoping the player can get back to the level of his pay. I think the respect Zorn had for what Jansen has done for this organization and what he did for the team had a lot to do with him not being on the market sooner

fredp45 wrote:2) Moving Jansen to another position is risky as far as how good he'll be at that new position. It isn't like one position on the OL is like another. There aren't many 6'5"/6'6" centers.

Cap-wise it was a smart option had it worked out but would only have been good for a year or so. Vinny brought in someone that should (hopefully) be able to allow the team to more on from Casey next year. Jon at 6'5" seemed be more comfortable for Campbell than walking up under the vertically challenged Rabach, although he is a inch shorter than Casey he is nine years younger (is it odd that Casey is the tallest center on the roster and Jason is the tallest QB?). These could be some of the snaps that Zorn spoke of when saying goodbye to JJ.

fredp45 wrote:3) They just raised the cap by quite a bit and I'd take the cap hit this year. I don't see anyone out there that would make us any better so let's use the extra cap dollars this year to move a costly vet -- who won't start anyway.

The Cap hike only bumped up the numbers that I've been using $947,000. Considering the new details the I found last night (regarding Jansen's last contract... the old one was actually torn up), Jon Jansen went through most of the upcoming OTAs/Workouts and Training Camp week one the team would have been on the hook for about $5.026M (almost $4.5M if a injury at any point during this time that would land him on IR). At the end of the day it was easy by my numbers, he cost them pretty much what the league gave them in the new cap space and got younger.

Bonus money aside they did at a time when either way the knew the outcome regardless of the choice JJ made (in the past they lacked the foresight to see what would happen if the player goes with option B. If Jon had chose to retire a Redskin it would have had the same effect as taking the hit now and Jon a chance to move into a weak FA tackle market while OTAs are just starting up. Landing back where it all started for him kind of lighten the pain of him not being here until the end of his career. But it was the perfect time for all that move impacts.

fredp45 wrote:4) Let the younger guys be our backups. I'm guessing that Williams or Heyer start at RT and the "loser" of that battle, Bridges, Reinhart are our backups on game day. They'll pick a couple younger guys to fill out the 10 slots but 2 of them won't be active anyway.

I think they already know what lineman will be on the final roster, they may not be sure of who the starters will be at the some spots on the line.

fredp45 wrote:5) It's really smart to continue every year to get younger and we really need to do that along the OL. I hate to say it but I'm thinking this is the last year for Randy Thomas...and the year after is the last year for Rabach. I don't have a problem with these get-younger moves.

I blogged about blowing this team up with the it being a process that started when Gibbs left.

Based on this move I can see what a lot of people will not like based on last year.

1.) Both Zorn returning next year, and JC getting a long term deal (unless there is no new CBA meaning he'd be a RFA and if he left "the Danny" would take NOTHING less than a number 1 not to match... so he could call the whole think even )

2.) Cap or no cap in 2010 they worked deals this year to free up cap space that pushed money into next year for aging that will allow the roster to continue to get younger, Whoever wins the spot will be cheaper than what Jon would have costed... just to follow my line of thinking, it has been determined that Heyer is now longer needed as a fillin at RT (was always a LT and "picked up to backup CS... remember Jon went down and then Stephon beat out Wade (after Todd got a pretty good payday considering where he was at that time). He might be a good backup at LT (we really never found out, because Samuels in normally the last to go down, if he goes down at all), but RT was a spot that appears to have went un-addressed until the Zorn regime showed up(granted the blocking scheme would chagne, but not so much for the RT (unless they just little to no pass blocking skills versus the the Cap hit) no way they would have commited to the money AND the hindered developement of one guy they keep on the roster that may have sat on the PS getting NO SNAPS until someone else plucks them off the squad).

They did not draft anyone ... or (and this is for RiC and the crew) "BUY" anyone to take over Jansen's spot (when healthy it did not matter because he ALWAYS re-earned his starting spot) over two coaching regimes that hadn't drafted him (pre-Gibbs and everyone else other than "the Danny" ). Jon went as hard as he could and is moving on with his replacement being unknown, yet went home signing a one year contract..

I say this move shows a change for two franchises that have have been the punchline of every writer that didn't have a ending for their story (something that more than likely had already reported) because we blow the cap. Prior to this move the Skins were in territory "capwise" that had me stuck... I knew something was coming but didn't know what. The extra capspace fooled me for into thinking that was it... But I knew about all of that (less $947K) so "the Danny" had to know. Until it happen I was sure you could have replaced JJ name with Ledell Betts .... Which might be yet to come.

Saying goodbye to Jansen is the only negative that I find in this move.


Not to jump into a fight I've said I will stay out of (because it's equally matched and my few would be "off-.center" of botn groups) But this is a GOOD move by the Front Office, if nothing more than reacting to the request of the coach knowing the fan reaction and cap ramifications to boot they did what was right for the organization and the team AND THE PLAYER.

I just like to thank Jansen for all the years of hard work. He was one of the first players in my memory for my generations Redskins. Wish him the best.

A sad move, but really a necessary one. Jon Jansen was a great Redskin this last decade, and I'll never forget his many contributions to our team during some very rough years. A class act and great player.




Thank you, Jon! You will be sorely missed.

Jon will be missed by Redskins nation... no doubt. He's been a fan favorite and he will be truly missed.

However, I agree it was a good move by the FO. Some here have complained that we let him go too early. It would've been extremely selfish for the Skins FO to hold on to him if they knew he didn't have much of a chance to start. Jon deserved the opportunity to sign with another team before mini camps and training camp starts. Maybe Jon himself knew he didn't have much of a chance to start and requested to be released so he could sign elsewhere, which apparently has happened pretty quickly.

A few years back, I remember Parcells' saying in an interview that he thought Jon wasn't the player he once was. And unfortunately, far too many injuries over the past few years. Last year he lost to starting job to Heyer, only to get it back when Heyer got hurt. At that point, I think they let Jon keep it just for continuity purposes on the o-line. But we need youth up front and it's time for others to step up.

This move is good for both the Skins and Jon. Sad to see ya go, but it was time. Good luck in Detroit, Jon.

Jeff Rhodes wrote:Cap hit or no, I can only assume this is the precursor to another move, like signing Levi Jones or something like that.

Jansen's play had deteriorated badly in recent years and even in his prime wasn't a good fit for a West Coast offense. Still, he was a better option at least as a backup than some of the other possibilities -- especially if he's more expensive to cut than keep.

Again, this only makes sense if Heyer or one of the new guys just blew your doors in during the minicamp. Or if you're planning to bring in someone else. And if it's the latter, you better have the deal already in place, because you suddenly no longer have much leverage in your negotiations.

I AGREE that the FO and coaching staff would not make this move without a well-laid plan in place. I think that plan is Levi Jones....

Listen, they did him a favor! Gave him the bigger $ and called it a day. It showed respect for him and he should be on his way elsewhere.

ArlingtonSkinsFan wrote:I AGREE that the FO and coaching staff would not make this move without a well-laid plan in place. I think that plan is Levi Jones....

I'd be surprised with that, and not particularly pleased if that was the case. As far as I know, Levi Jones is a finesse LT; not someone you can plug into RT and have him succeed. Not to mention he has a pretty serious injury history.

PulpExposure wrote:

ArlingtonSkinsFan wrote:I AGREE that the FO and coaching staff would not make this move without a well-laid plan in place. I think that plan is Levi Jones....

I'd be surprised with that, and not particularly pleased if that was the case. As far as I know, Levi Jones is a finesse LT; not someone you can plug into RT and have him succeed. Not to mention he has a pretty serious injury history.

I think they've spent what they are going to spend on the RT spot.
If not it won't be on a guy that has missed just as many games over the last three years as Jansen.

I've read all your responses and posts to the topic, and none really matches my thoughts, so here goes.
This was a B.S. move. I can see where Rock might've seemed unmanagable to Zorn, but there's no way Buges signed off on this.
The mature athlete in general has never been given the respect deserved. In Jansen's case, some consideration should have been given to his myriad restructurings, comebacks and leadership skills.
Detroits gain is our loss, and will be felt. It's going to be hard for me to see him there, in another uni.
Good luck, Rock. Thanks for leaving it all on the field and giving 100% every snap of the ball.

tcwest10 wrote:I've read all your responses and posts to the topic, and none really matches my thoughts, so here goes.
This was a B.S. move. I can see where Rock might've seemed unmanagable to Zorn, but there's no way Buges signed off on this.

According to everything I read, Buges did sign off on the move. For example:

"But to me, in evaluating the situation with Joe, with Sherman, myself, just sitting down and talking about and watching, I didn't see a difference [from last season]. I'm looking for differences. 'Okay, this is different, and that's different.' I didn't necessarily see that."

Given that, Zorn said, the coaches tried to envision where Jansen - who began last year as a backup, rose to the starting job, lost it again and then regained it at the end of the season - might fit in going forward.

"What we try to do is look at all the offensive linemen," Zorn said. "You not only grade them, but you rank them. You go back and forth. What's the future look like here? The future looks more like it's the battle of Stephon Heyer, Mike Williams and Jeremy Bridges."

Thus, they tried Jansen at center and guard, where he would have served as a backup.

"I didn't feel comfortable with how I perceived him backing up all those positions," Zorn said. "I was looking for the younger guys to take a lot of snaps to improve them instead of keeping Jon in a new position for him."

Once the coaches came to a consensus, Zorn said he took his recommendation to owner Daniel Snyder. "How do you release a guy like this?" Zorn said. "And Mr. Snyder said, 'Let's do it as right as we can.' The right way to do it is talk to him face to face."

Jon was one of Bugel's favorite players; there is no way he allows him to be cut and sits meekly by. Bugel, imho, would probably just instead retire if he was forced to cut a veteran player he didn't want to.

The mature athlete in general has never been given the respect deserved. In Jansen's case, some consideration should have been given to his myriad restructurings, comebacks and leadership skills.

I seriously don't get this. I really love and respect Jansen for all that he's done for the Redskins, but the cold, hard, facts are that the guy had an insane cap number, was due a lot of money this year, hasn't been healthy for a long time, was just awful last year. Oh and please...the restructurings benefit the player as much (if not more than) the team...since they get more money upfront in a bonus than they otherwise would.

I actually think that the Redskins give too much respect to the mature athlete; we're not really cutthroat enough. For example, look at the Eagles; they just cut Jon Runyan and Tra Thomas this year, even though both of them were long-standing, respected Eagles, who were playing well and had no serious injury issues...but were cut because they were getting older and had high cap numbers. Or the Ravens; they cut long-time and respected Raven Peter Boulware a few years back, because he was too injury prone and not worth his cap number...and he was only 30.

In many ways, the Redskins depend upon the older athlete to play out his contract, even though the performance they put out may not justify their salary cap number. That was most certainly true with Jansen last year.

Detroits gain is our loss, and will be felt. It's going to be hard for me to see him there, in another uni.
Good luck, Rock. Thanks for leaving it all on the field and giving 100% every snap of the ball.

Agree with you here, 100%. He will be missed.

SkinsFreak wrote:Jon will be missed by Redskins nation... no doubt. He's been a fan favorite and he will be truly missed.

However, I agree it was a good move by the FO. Some here have complained that we let him go too early. It would've been extremely selfish for the Skins FO to hold on to him if they knew he didn't have much of a chance to start. Jon deserved the opportunity to sign with another team before mini camps and training camp starts. Maybe Jon himself knew he didn't have much of a chance to start and requested to be released so he could sign elsewhere, which apparently has happened pretty quickly.

A few years back, I remember Parcells' saying in an interview that he thought Jon wasn't the player he once was. And unfortunately, far too many injuries over the past few years. Last year he lost to starting job to Heyer, only to get it back when Heyer got hurt. At that point, I think they let Jon keep it just for continuity purposes on the o-line. But we need youth up front and it's time for others to step up.

This move is good for both the Skins and Jon. Sad to see ya go, but it was time. Good luck in Detroit, Jon.

Very well put and I agree...I have always said better to get rid of a guy to early than too late...

This just sucks all the way round. Its NOT a cost cutting move since it nearly doubles Jansen's cap hit. How can it based on performance when they haven't even put on pads yet!?! And even if you assume that so much can be gleaned from Minicamp and OTA's, how much chance did he have since he was splitting reps with at least 2 other guys at RT and getting reps at G and C? So if you already know this is what you want to do, why wait until now when most teams are already set? The only class move in this was flying him in to tell him face to face. The rest of it stinks. I've never known Buges to make any decisions before they put on pads so I don't think this was his idea. He may not have felt strongly enough to seriously oppose it but I doubt he came up with it. I just hope he hasn't lost his fire because the only thing left that gives me hope for our O-line this year is the fact that he's coaching them.

As for Jansen, I wish him the best. They should have given him a better shot at finishing his career as a Redskin. As it stands, I wouldn't count him out. Wouldn't it be the perfect capper to this sucky situation if he made his first career appearance in the Pro Bowl as a Lion? Ok, he may be done. His body may not be able to deliver on his pride anymore but stranger things have happened.

PulpExposure wrote:I seriously don't get this. I really love and respect Jansen for all that he's done for the Redskins, but the cold, hard, facts are that the guy had an insane cap number, was due a lot of money this year, hasn't been healthy for a long time, was just awful last year.

Let us -ASSUME- that all this is right.

I only have ONE question under that hypothesis:

Why did it take so long for the FO to make this decision into the offseason?

I agree that his level of play is not what it used to be. But -EVEN- his detriorated level of game was good enough to compete against Heyer for the starting job and Williams remains a long shot.

And if Heyer gets injured -again- this season ... oh! please do not get me there.

This is a stupid move both ways:

It is stupid if it was made too early to allow him to prove himself during the rest of the offseason and to provide depth.

It is a stupid decision if it was a foregone conclusion arrived way back when we SHOULD have addressed needs at the OL during the Draft and FA.

I agree with TC and SkinsJock. This move, never mind how anybody wishes to sugar coat it, does not represent proof of vision and a long term plan.

Jon Jansen I thank you for your work with us. You should hold your head high!

How many more great careers will not be taken full advantage of in this team due to the erratic behaviour of this FO?

Redskin in Canada wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:I seriously don't get this. I really love and respect Jansen for all that he's done for the Redskins, but the cold, hard, facts are that the guy had an insane cap number, was due a lot of money this year, hasn't been healthy for a long time, was just awful last year.

Let us -ASSUME- that all this is right.

I only have ONE question under that hypothesis:

Why did it take so long for the FO to make this decision into the offseason?

I agree that his level of play is not what it used to be. But -EVEN- his detriorated level of game was good enough to compete against Heyer for the starting job and Williams remains a long shot.

And if Heyer gets injured -again- this season ... oh! please do not get me there.

This is a stupid move both ways:

It is stupid if it was made too early to allow him to prove himself during the rest of the offseason and to provide depth.

It is a stupid decision if it was a foregone conclusion arrived way back when we SHOULD have addressed needs at the OL during the Draft and FA.

I agree with TC and SkinsJock. This move, never mind how anybody wishes to sugar coat it, does not represent proof of vision and a long term plan.

Jon Jansen I thank you for your work with us. You should hold your head high!

How many more great careers will not be taken full advantage of in this team due to the erratic behaviour of this FO?

I disagree. Without actually seeing him play during the OTAs, they had no way of knowing if his self-stated reincarnation was going to work out.

"He was going to prove to everybody that he could make the Pro Bowl and be an All-Pro player, and that's what we were hoping for as well," Zorn said. "At the minicamp and the OTAs, I didn't see that."

He got a job quickly enough after his release (and for the team he wanted, to boot), to show that we didn't harm him by making the move too late.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Let us -ASSUME- that all this is right.

I only have ONE question under that hypothesis:

Why did it take so long for the FO to make this decision into the offseason?

Because the salary cap was raised an additional 947k or so this past week, which just gave them just enough room to cut him?

I agree that his level of play is not what it used to be. But -EVEN- his detriorated level of game was good enough to compete against Heyer for the starting job and Williams remains a long shot.

And if Heyer gets injured -again- this season ... oh! please do not get me there.

From all that I can tell, Jeremy Bridges looks like the starter at RT, and Heyer looks to be moved back to being Samuels backup at LT.

I want to say that things will be okay with our offensive line but with the guys we have in charge that is just not an easy thing to sell in my opinion. We all know what we saw last year and adding Dockery and replacing The Rock is just not making me feel really good about this very important part of our offense.

From 1niksder's post I understand the financial side but I just am a bit concerned about this offensive line as it reportedly looks right now - I would feel a lot better if we had some personnel people who know what they are doing in the rebuilding of our offensive line.

It's all very well to sugar coat this as much as the apologists want - fact is we have not done very well with this group managing things and now we are losing a leader and the replacements just do not make me feel that things will be a whole lot better with our line this year. We were horrible last year and we do not need to just get better, we need this offensive line to be a whole lot better than it was and I'm afraid that is not looking very good right now.

I cannot imagine this is making the other key players on offense very happy either.



I just wish we had made a much bigger effort to rebuild the offensive line. I think that if we had better people in charge we might still have lost Jansen but I think the contingency plan would have been a whole lot better than what we are looking at right now.

Please! We didn't lose Jansen, we cut him. Making you feel all warm and fuzzy is not on anyone's mind at Redskin Park right now. Our line was far from horrible last season. In fact they were performing pretty well until injuries started limiting their ability in the second half of the season. Portis was leading the league in rushing at the half-way point, so they must have been doing an ok job, don't you think? I'm pretty sure Buges will make sure the guys we do have are up to speed and capable of doing the job.

Watch Jon have a pro bowl year for the Lions. His best in years. Just our luck.

PulpExposure wrote: but the cold, hard, facts are that the guy had an insane cap number, was due a lot of money this year, hasn't been healthy for a long time, was just awful last year.

The part in bold is an EXTREME exaggeration on your part. From the time he regained his starting job in week 3 until somewhere around week 8 Jon was playing as well as any RT in the NFL. He led the way for the NFL's leading rusher and protected a QB that Jaws was saying was the mid-season MVP.

A lot of the sacks that he got blamed for by the fans and media wasn't his responsiblity, another player had that guy, like a certain probowl TE. I bet Jon was charged with giving up less sacks than the LT that played in Buffalo that the Eagles just traded for.

HE WAS NOT AWFUL last year! You might say by the end of the season when he was hurt he wasn't playing well, but AWFUL. Wow!

Kilmer72 wrote:Watch Jon have a pro bowl year for the Lions. His best in years. Just our luck.

Speeking of that. Jon had a MUCH better year here last year than Walt Harris did his last year with the Skins!!

Just something to think about!

DEHog wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:Jon will be missed by Redskins nation... no doubt. He's been a fan favorite and he will be truly missed.

However, I agree it was a good move by the FO. Some here have complained that we let him go too early. It would've been extremely selfish for the Skins FO to hold on to him if they knew he didn't have much of a chance to start. Jon deserved the opportunity to sign with another team before mini camps and training camp starts. Maybe Jon himself knew he didn't have much of a chance to start and requested to be released so he could sign elsewhere, which apparently has happened pretty quickly.

A few years back, I remember Parcells' saying in an interview that he thought Jon wasn't the player he once was. And unfortunately, far too many injuries over the past few years. Last year he lost to starting job to Heyer, only to get it back when Heyer got hurt. At that point, I think they let Jon keep it just for continuity purposes on the o-line. But we need youth up front and it's time for others to step up.

This move is good for both the Skins and Jon. Sad to see ya go, but it was time. Good luck in Detroit, Jon.

Very well put and I agree...

Thanks DEHog... any yeah, I think we're on the same page.

Players get cut in this league all the time, it's the nature of the game... any game for that matter. It just happens sooner or later and every team has to make those tough decisions. My friend who is an Eagles insider was pissed when the released Brian Dawkins, as well as Buckhalter, Thomas and Runyan... all in the same offseason. But there's always going to be a younger, fresher, stronger, faster and motivated player pushing to replace the aging vets. It happens in every sport... it's just the way it is.

I've always loved Jansen and will always be grateful for his contributions during his tenure with the team. But quite frankly, I believe the Skins have been very patient with Jansen over the past few years and gave him every opportunity to succeed. His age and injuries have just caught up with him.

I don't think there's anyone here that thought Jasen was going to be a starter this year. Many were hoping to draft his replacement just a few short weeks ago. Jansen has been looking at a #2 back-up spot, at best, for a while now. They gave Jansen a shot at playing center and guard, but it appears they weren't impressed and I'm sure Jansen didn't want to play there anyway, wanting a shot at starting for another team, if that's where it would happen.

They obviously want to move in a direction of youth, and as much as we've all loved and respected Jansen, I think we all agree we've needed youth up front for some time now. I'll miss the guy, but on this one, I back Zorn and Buges on this decision. We all knew it was going to happen sooner or later...