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Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:56 pm
by PulpExposure
Redskin in Canada wrote:Hey Freak, I guess you had to learn the difference between EXPERTISE and EXPERIENCE. Vinny has EXPERIENCE, I will give you that, BAD experience that is but that is another story ...
That's not what SF was addressing, nor what you originally were arguing, however. You're playing shift the goalposts.
I could care less about Snyder AS LONG AS somebody knowledgeable manages the TEAM!!!
And
Let real NFL people do NFL work. That is all.
That's what SF is disputing. You're saying he's neither knowledgeable nor a "real" NFL person. His SEVENTEEN years as an NFL FO manager/GM says otherwise.
In addition, your bias is clouding the facts:
Redskin in Canada wrote:That is all for God's sake. Snyder can keep the profits he can try to clean the fans out of every penny
If he really was trying to soak the fans as badly as you say, don't you think he would have raised ticket prices more than twice since he's been an NFL owner?
This area would certainly support higher ticket prices.
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:08 pm
by SkinsFreak
DEHog wrote:I said nothing about Vinny's experience...My question is at what point do you look at the FO instead of the coach...If Zorn misses the PO this year you know he's out...what about Vinny...Are you saying DS has not had enough time to evaluate him??
DE, I understand your point and agree to an extent. The coaching turnover in Snyder's early years was difficult. I also believe the team will benefit immensely from stability and continuity, especially at the HC position. I sincerely hope Zorn gets a chance, and in my opinion, that should be longer than two years.
My point regarding Vinny is that in his first six years with the team, he's been working in the department of scouting, drafting and recruiting. While there have been some bad signings such as B. Lloyd and Arch, there have been quite a few good free agents acquired and quite a few good draft selections.
Vinny has only been in a GM role for a year and a half, and save for the Jason Taylor deal, I believe Vinny has done a pretty good job.
Chris 
ey offered some valid points regarding Vinny and his record with the team...
Chris ey Endorses Vinny CerratoI stupidly forgot that even though the Redskins have stopped playing, their players have continued to give enlightening radio interviews. Two keepers already this week. In the first, Chris
ey concluded his season of Elliot in the Morning appearances on DC101, and after the usual "what went wrong" patter, Elliot eventually asked whether Vinny Cerrato was the problem.
ey then gave the most enthusiastic defense of the Skins' PR boss I've heard from a player.
That seemed especially notable in the week after that AP story led with "A good way to get a Washington Redskins player to clam up is to ask about Vinny Cerrato."
ey didn't clam up.
"No, I DON'T think Vinny's a problem,"
ey said. "I think he's done a lot of great things. And I know you can point your finger at the bad things that he's done over the last few years, and I think that's very easy for anyone to say, 'Well, look at Adam Archuleta, or Brandon Lloyd, and what kind of choices were those?' But I think you can look at a lot of great decisions that he's made over the last five years. I'm here because Vinny was here. Vinny picked me...."
"I think Vinny's done a good job. I don't think that there's ever been a question, through the last five years, that this team has or hasn't had the talent. We've known that we've had the talent to win football games, that hasn't been a question. And I don't want to say that there was poor coaching this year--I mean, it's a first-year offense--or in any year. But we're capable, and I think I'll leave it at that."
Now, I know
ey isn't going to publicly bash one of his bosses, but he does make valid points. The team is stacked with many good players, many of which Vinny helped with evaluating and acquiring. We all knew there was going to be a learning curve for the offense with the implementation of the WCO, a completely different system from what Gibbs employed. This was also Vinny's first year as the acting GM, so that's why I'll reserve judgment.
But we all know some want to blame Vinny for the losses...
In public gatherings, the coach and the owner usually introduce Vinny Cerrato the same way. Joe Gibbs and Daniel Snyder point to Cerrato, the team's vice president of football operations, and say, "He's responsible for the losses."
The room always breaks up laughing, whether it's at the owners' meetings in Hawaii or among smaller groups. "Yep, 'He's responsible for the losses.' They both say it all the time now," Cerrato said, half-smiling, chuckling to himself.
In jest, the fall guy. Always in jest.
Link
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:32 pm
by SkinsFreak
Redskin in Canada wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:Redskin in Canada wrote:Let the RECORD speak for himself instead of apologizing for BOTH of these clowns.
Stupid post of the year award.
So me where I've made any apology for either.
You said... "Let real NFL people do NFL work. That is all."
You people have turned the word ...
APOLOGIST... into a bad word in this board.
Hey Freak, I guess you had to learn the difference between EXPERTISE and EXPERIENCE. Vinny has EXPERIENCE, I will give you that, BAD experience that is but that is another story ...
Yeah... I had to learn the difference between expertise and experience. Oh thank you ole' wise one, I don't know what I'd do without your contributions on the English language.
Vinny made contributions to two organizations that won championships while he was employed with those teams. So it can be argued that he has some level of both experience and expertise. He wasn't promoted by all these organizations due to a lack of knowledge or expertise, which happens to be in the field of scouting, recruiting and the draft. But I know it's easier for the complainers, blamers and whiners to have one person to blame for the losses.
By the way... apologist?
Classic. OH MY GOD... a sports fan is actually... I don't know... supporting his team?!?!?!? Oh my God, how unorthodox is that?
Someone supports the team and all of a sudden he's an apologist. What a joke. Yet you have nothing to contribute other than Vinny is a clown, Snyder is greedy and any fan that supports his team is an apologist. Yeah, we got it... it's like a broken record. What a freakin'...
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:58 pm
by El Mexican
If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:18 pm
by Deadskins
I wish everyone would qut saying last year's draft was so bad. How about letting it pan out before you condemn it out of hand. We may eventually wind up with 4 to 6 starters from that one draft class, which is not too shabby. It takes three years before you can properly evaluate a draft, so please give it a rest. Sheesh!
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 4:49 am
by 1niksder
Beyond the Sound-bites - The Truth about Dan Snyder
Today’s Dan Snyder is not the Dan Snyder of old. He doesn’t refer publicly to his wife’s comments about which punter to sign. He spends millions on star players who are still in their respective primes. And, he didn’t trade away the 13th pick in the draft just because he could have made a splash. When it comes to Snyder, it’s about time the mainstream media reported today’s news and stopped clinging to yesterday’s sound-bites.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:42 am
by SkinsFreak
El Mexican wrote:If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Yeah, we're in deeeeeeeep trouble...
QFL
Quoted for LAUGHTER!
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:54 am
by PulpExposure
SkinsFreak wrote:El Mexican wrote:If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Yeah, we're in deeeeeeeep trouble...
QFL
Quoted for LAUGHTER!
Ageed, that's a totally laughable post. Surprise surprise; the top 3 picks didn't contribute much last year...well that's because 2 of them were WRs (who normally don't contribute much during year 1, AND both were both injured during training camp and thus, fell way behind) and a TE..who was not going to get significant playing time as a rookie when there's a Pro Bowl TE in front of him.
SKY IS FALLING.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:43 am
by SnyderSucks
Deadskins wrote:SnyderSucks wrote:They still appear willing to mortgage the future and sacrifice depth for the "big name". Last years pursuit of Chad Johnson, this year for Cutler, then Sanchez.
But the fact that they didn't make any of those deals totally contradicts your premise.
Are you kidding? The reason those deals didn't go through wasn't because of the Redskins.
Chad Johnson - they offered two first round picks. The Bengals wanted to make a point so they didn't take it. Washington offered more than enough.
Cutler- Denver liked Kyle Ortorn better than Campbell. Otherwise this deal goes through. Even Chicago thought Washington was going to get this deal. Washingtons #1 pick was higher than Chicago. Good luck finding two other coaches in the league who think Orton is better than Campbell.
Sanchez - Got lucky here. Got out bid by the Jets. The story is Snyder would not include next years #1, which does show some restraint. If he had fallen to 8, don't doubt for a second that Sanchez is in Washington.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:18 pm
by Deadskins
SnyderSucks wrote:Deadskins wrote:SnyderSucks wrote:They still appear willing to mortgage the future and sacrifice depth for the "big name". Last years pursuit of Chad Johnson, this year for Cutler, then Sanchez.
But the fact that they didn't make any of those deals totally contradicts your premise.
Are you kidding? The reason those deals didn't go through wasn't because of the Redskins.
Chad Johnson - they offered two first round picks. The Bengals wanted to make a point so they didn't take it. Washington offered more than enough.
What point? That they are totally stupid? If we had really offered two #1's, the Bengals would have jumped all over it.
SnyderSucks wrote:Cutler- Denver liked Kyle Ortorn better than Campbell. Otherwise this deal goes through. Even Chicago thought Washington was going to get this deal. Washingtons #1 pick was higher than Chicago. Good luck finding two other coaches in the league who think Orton is better than Campbell.
More speculation. I don't think we offered what the Bears did. Denver played up the Redskins' interest to get a better deal from the Bears. Did we inquire? Yes, but the asking price was too high.
SnyderSucks wrote:Sanchez - Got lucky here. Got out bid by the Jets. The story is Snyder would not include next years #1, which does show some restraint. If he had fallen to 8, don't doubt for a second that Sanchez is in Washington.
I do doubt it. I think we wanted Orakpo all along, and played up our interest in Sanchez as posturing to throw teams picking 1-12 off the scent. We did try to move up, but to take Brian, not Sanchez. After the best OTs were off the board, we went defense.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:20 pm
by Countertrey
Cutler- Denver liked Kyle Ortorn better than Campbell. Otherwise this deal goes through. Even Chicago thought Washington was going to get this deal. Washingtons #1 pick was higher than Chicago. Good luck finding two other coaches in the league who think Orton is better than Campbell.
Conjecture.
Sanchez - Got lucky here. Got out bid by the Jets. The story is Snyder would not include next years #1, which does show some restraint. If he had fallen to 8, don't doubt for a second that Sanchez is in Washington.
Perhaps... but again, all of the "story" remains conjecture.
Inquiries do not equate to earnest negotiation. Did they? Didn't they? No one who was involved has said anything of substance, other than "we asked" or "they asked".
I noted well over a month before the Draft that my suspicion about the "interest" the skins had in Sanchez was more about changing the pool of top ten picks to increase the chance of one of the big OT's or Orakpo falling. There were, of course, doubters.
Guess what?
Orakpo fell.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:56 pm
by SnyderSucks
Countertrey wrote:Cutler- Denver liked Kyle Ortorn better than Campbell. Otherwise this deal goes through. Even Chicago thought Washington was going to get this deal. Washingtons #1 pick was higher than Chicago. Good luck finding two other coaches in the league who think Orton is better than Campbell.
Conjecture.
Sanchez - Got lucky here. Got out bid by the Jets. The story is Snyder would not include next years #1, which does show some restraint. If he had fallen to 8, don't doubt for a second that Sanchez is in Washington.
Perhaps... but again, all of the "story" remains conjecture.
Inquiries do not equate to earnest negotiation. Did they? Didn't they? No one who was involved has said anything of substance, other than "we asked" or "they asked".
I noted well over a month before the Draft that my suspicion about the "interest" the skins had in Sanchez was more about changing the pool of top ten picks to increase the chance of one of the big OT's or Orakpo falling. There were, of course, doubters.
Guess what?
Orakpo fell.
Conjecture? When was the last time the Redskins reported interest in a player and/or offer wasn't true? This team doesn't engage in smokescreens to through off other teams. When they drafted Campbell, everyone knew who they traded up for prior to the draft. Any other team who wanted him knew they had to get in front of Washington. There were numerous reported stories, stories that editors require to have sources, about Washington's interest in all of the above. Feigning interest in Sanchez, after the public interest in Cutler, is just stupid. You risk pissing off your QB, ruining his confidence, or getting him to refuse to re-sign when his contract is up.
As for Cutler, I live in Colorado. The local media was all over this trade. They went with Chicago over Washington because of Orton. Even Cutler believed he was going to Washington. If McDaniels didn't like Orton, Denver would have drafted a QB. They gave up next years number one to get back into the second round, but made no move with any of their top picks for a QB.
Your "conjecture" is that you are correct with your theories of smokescreens that have no basis, whereas the paid reporters with real sources are being lied to by everyone involved.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3358557 Redskins offer two first round picks for Johnson. One of many identical stories.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/w ... index.html Peter King, among others, says they liked orton over campbell.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:02 pm
by Countertrey
Peter King
Oh, yeah. Invoking the name of Peter King is a guaranteed winner, here!
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 5:58 pm
by yupchagee
PulpExposure wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:El Mexican wrote:If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Yeah, we're in deeeeeeeep trouble...
QFL
Quoted for LAUGHTER!
Ageed, that's a totally laughable post. Surprise surprise; the top 3 picks didn't contribute much last year...well that's because 2 of them were WRs (who normally don't contribute much during year 1, AND both were both injured during training camp and thus, fell way behind) and a
TE..who was not going to get significant playing time as a rookie when there's a Pro Bowl TE in front of him.SKY IS FALLING.
Then why did we draft him
ey is young.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:05 pm
by DEHog
SkinsFreak wrote:DE, I understand your point and agree to an extent. The coaching turnover in Snyder's early years was difficult. I also believe the team will benefit immensely from stability and continuity, especially at the HC position. I sincerely hope Zorn gets a chance, and in my opinion, that should be longer than two
Thanks...and I couldn't agree more...I want DS to let Zorn coach out his contract. I also think that will be a good time to look at Vinny, while I find it laughable to try and call last year's draft picks a bust...In a league where the average career of a player last less than 4 years I think three years is a fair time frame to judge last year's draft...if they haven't contributed anything buy then the chances of them doing so are greatly reduced. That said I would like to see DS address our FO before he addresses our next HC…Here’s to hoping neither is necessary!
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:58 pm
by PulpExposure
yupchagee wrote:PulpExposure wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:El Mexican wrote:If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Yeah, we're in deeeeeeeep trouble...
QFL
Quoted for LAUGHTER!
Ageed, that's a totally laughable post. Surprise surprise; the top 3 picks didn't contribute much last year...well that's because 2 of them were WRs (who normally don't contribute much during year 1, AND both were both injured during training camp and thus, fell way behind) and a
TE..who was not going to get significant playing time as a rookie when there's a Pro Bowl TE in front of him.SKY IS FALLING.
Then why did we draft him
ey is young.
Oh I dunno. Maybe when he learns how to play in Zorn's offense, Zorn can then run a very strong 2 TE set?
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:01 pm
by SkinsFreak
yupchagee wrote:PulpExposure wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:El Mexican wrote:If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Yeah, we're in deeeeeeeep trouble...
QFL
Quoted for LAUGHTER!
Ageed, that's a totally laughable post. Surprise surprise; the top 3 picks didn't contribute much last year...well that's because 2 of them were WRs (who normally don't contribute much during year 1, AND both were both injured during training camp and thus, fell way behind) and a
TE..who was not going to get significant playing time as a rookie when there's a Pro Bowl TE in front of him.SKY IS FALLING.
Then why did we draft him
ey is young.
If you haven't figured that out by now, then I'm not sure someone explaining it to you for about the hundredth time will change anything. But I guess I'll try one last time. If this doesn't get you up to speed, I'm not sure what will.
Teams need more than one TE. Do you understand that? Most teams carry three. Yoder is on his way out. Yoder was undrafted, is entering his 10th season, and for his career, has 44 catches for 451 yards and five TDs. That isn't even in the serviceable range.
Zorn wants to run multiple TE formations. He's spoken about it often and even mentioned it again in mini-camp this past weekend. Last year was Zorn's first year implementing his new offense, and while a few "fans" may think one TE is sufficient, Zorn obviously wanted two above average, pass catching TE's for his system. Davis is familiar with these multiple TE formations, as they ran similar formations at USC in their pro style offense.
Further, the team had a 1st round grade on Davis, the former Mackey award winner, given to the nations top TE, and got him in the 2nd round at an exceptional value.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:05 pm
by Deadskins
SkinsFreak wrote:yupchagee wrote:PulpExposure wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:El Mexican wrote:If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Yeah, we're in deeeeeeeep trouble...
QFL
Quoted for LAUGHTER!
Ageed, that's a totally laughable post. Surprise surprise; the top 3 picks didn't contribute much last year...well that's because 2 of them were WRs (who normally don't contribute much during year 1, AND both were both injured during training camp and thus, fell way behind) and a
TE..who was not going to get significant playing time as a rookie when there's a Pro Bowl TE in front of him.SKY IS FALLING.
Then why did we draft him
ey is young.
If you haven't figured that out by now, then I'm not sure someone explaining it to you for about the hundredth time will change anything. But I guess I'll try one last time. If this doesn't get you up to speed, I'm not sure what will.
Teams need more than one TE. Do you understand that? Most teams carry three. Yoder is on his way out. Yoder was undrafted, is entering his 10th season, and for his career, has 44 catches for 451 yards and five TDs. That isn't even in the serviceable range.
Zorn wants to run multiple TE formations. He's spoken about it often and even mentioned it again in mini-camp this past weekend. Last year was Zorn's first year implementing his new offense, and while a few "fans" may think one TE is sufficient, Zorn obviously wanted two above average, pass catching TE's for his system. Davis is familiar with these multiple TE formations, as they ran similar formations at USC in their pro style offense.
Further, the team had a 1st round grade on Davis, the former Mackey award winner, given to the nations top TE, and got him in the 2nd round at an exceptional value.
And there's nothing wrong with having quality depth. What if, heaven forbid,
ey gets injured?
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:03 pm
by El Mexican
Deadskins wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:yupchagee wrote:PulpExposure wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:El Mexican wrote:If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Yeah, we're in deeeeeeeep trouble...
QFL
Quoted for LAUGHTER!
Ageed, that's a totally laughable post. Surprise surprise; the top 3 picks didn't contribute much last year...well that's because 2 of them were WRs (who normally don't contribute much during year 1, AND both were both injured during training camp and thus, fell way behind) and a
TE..who was not going to get significant playing time as a rookie when there's a Pro Bowl TE in front of him.SKY IS FALLING.
Then why did we draft him
ey is young.
If you haven't figured that out by now, then I'm not sure someone explaining it to you for about the hundredth time will change anything. But I guess I'll try one last time. If this doesn't get you up to speed, I'm not sure what will.
Teams need more than one TE. Do you understand that? Most teams carry three. Yoder is on his way out. Yoder was undrafted, is entering his 10th season, and for his career, has 44 catches for 451 yards and five TDs. That isn't even in the serviceable range.
Zorn wants to run multiple TE formations. He's spoken about it often and even mentioned it again in mini-camp this past weekend. Last year was Zorn's first year implementing his new offense, and while a few "fans" may think one TE is sufficient, Zorn obviously wanted two above average, pass catching TE's for his system. Davis is familiar with these multiple TE formations, as they ran similar formations at USC in their pro style offense.
Further, the team had a 1st round grade on Davis, the former Mackey award winner, given to the nations top TE, and got him in the 2nd round at an exceptional value.
And there's nothing wrong with having quality depth. What if, heaven forbid,
ey gets injured?
Then, my friend, we have practically no one to back him up because Davis showed nothing during his rookie season.
TE is not an area of need in this team. The receiving corps is.
I understand that receivers have a higher learning curve than other positions, but if you can´t beat old man James Thrash then you have a problem in your hands. "Our WRs were injured", you say. Well start drafting players with a better medical history.
Outside the first round, our draft choices during the last four years have been "spotty", at least.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:35 pm
by yupchagee
SkinsFreak wrote:yupchagee wrote:PulpExposure wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:El Mexican wrote:If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Yeah, we're in deeeeeeeep trouble...
QFL
Quoted for LAUGHTER!
Ageed, that's a totally laughable post. Surprise surprise; the top 3 picks didn't contribute much last year...well that's because 2 of them were WRs (who normally don't contribute much during year 1, AND both were both injured during training camp and thus, fell way behind) and a
TE..who was not going to get significant playing time as a rookie when there's a Pro Bowl TE in front of him.SKY IS FALLING.
Then why did we draft him
ey is young.
If you haven't figured that out by now, then I'm not sure someone explaining it to you for about the hundredth time will change anything. But I guess I'll try one last time. If this doesn't get you up to speed, I'm not sure what will.
Teams need more than one TE. Do you understand that? Most teams carry three. Yoder is on his way out. Yoder was undrafted, is entering his 10th season, and for his career, has 44 catches for 451 yards and five TDs. That isn't even in the serviceable range.
Zorn wants to run multiple TE formations. He's spoken about it often and even mentioned it again in mini-camp this past weekend. Last year was Zorn's first year implementing his new offense, and while a few "fans" may think one TE is sufficient, Zorn obviously wanted two above average, pass catching TE's for his system. Davis is familiar with these multiple TE formations, as they ran similar formations at USC in their pro style offense.
Further, the team had a 1st round grade on Davis, the former Mackey award winner, given to the nations top TE, and got him in the 2nd round at an exceptional value.
In 2 TE sets, the 2nd TE is usually a blocker, which Davis isn't. While it's nice to have depth, you don't use a 2nd rnd pick on a player you don't see as starting in a couple of years.
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:47 am
by El Mexican
yupchagee wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:yupchagee wrote:PulpExposure wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:El Mexican wrote:If last years draft serves as an example of what is to come when Vinny is the official GM, then we are in deep trouble.
Save for Horton, the outlook right now is bleak.
Yeah, we're in deeeeeeeep trouble...
QFL
Quoted for LAUGHTER!
Ageed, that's a totally laughable post. Surprise surprise; the top 3 picks didn't contribute much last year...well that's because 2 of them were WRs (who normally don't contribute much during year 1, AND both were both injured during training camp and thus, fell way behind) and a
TE..who was not going to get significant playing time as a rookie when there's a Pro Bowl TE in front of him.SKY IS FALLING.
Then why did we draft him
ey is young.
If you haven't figured that out by now, then I'm not sure someone explaining it to you for about the hundredth time will change anything. But I guess I'll try one last time. If this doesn't get you up to speed, I'm not sure what will.
Teams need more than one TE. Do you understand that? Most teams carry three. Yoder is on his way out. Yoder was undrafted, is entering his 10th season, and for his career, has 44 catches for 451 yards and five TDs. That isn't even in the serviceable range.
Zorn wants to run multiple TE formations. He's spoken about it often and even mentioned it again in mini-camp this past weekend. Last year was Zorn's first year implementing his new offense, and while a few "fans" may think one TE is sufficient, Zorn obviously wanted two above average, pass catching TE's for his system. Davis is familiar with these multiple TE formations, as they ran similar formations at USC in their pro style offense.
Further, the team had a 1st round grade on Davis, the former Mackey award winner, given to the nations top TE, and got him in the 2nd round at an exceptional value.
In 2 TE sets, the 2nd TE is usually a blocker, which Davis isn't. While it's nice to have depth, you don't use a 2nd rnd pick on a player you don't see as starting in a couple of years.
I totally agree with you, Yup.
That pick could have been used better.
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:10 pm
by Countertrey
You risk pissing off your QB, ruining his confidence, or getting him to refuse to re-sign when his contract is up.
Apparently, your proximity to Cutler has jaded you. Most professional athletes, notably those with a modicum of maturity, understand the business end. Turns out, Campbell is a tad more mature than the child who moved to Chicago. Additionally, pissing Campbell off might not be a bad thing. The dude may need a fire lit under his butt... especially in the 4th quarter. If he expects to get the contract that I know he wants, he needs to be turning up the wick.
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:24 pm
by SkinsFreak
yupchagee wrote:In 2 TE sets, the 2nd TE is usually a blocker, which Davis isn't. While it's nice to have depth, you don't use a 2nd rnd pick on a player you don't see as starting in a couple of years.
Making a comment such as the one I highlighted proves beyond any reasonable doubt that you don't follow the team very closely and have no idea of what you're talking about. Because if you think they don't plan on using him for a couple of years... I mean... that's just ignorant. Davis
will be playing this year.
It's rather
evident you aren't following the team or listening to Zorn. Zorn has spoken
numerous times about formations utilizing multiple pass catching TE's. As I said before, he spoke about it again this past weekend. In some formations he might split one out or could use them both on the end of the line. Perhaps you should give the coach the benefit of the doubt and watch his offense in it's second year before you condemn it. I'm quite sure Zorn knows what he's doing and what he intends, while those who don't follow very closely have no idea.
I'm not going to waste my time to pull up every recent quote from Zorn regarding the use of Davis, but here's a few...
Question: How is Fred Davis growing and maturing as a tight end? Can we expect contributions from him this year?
-- Steve W.
Gary:
The goal has always been to get Davis and Chris ey on the field at the same time. This year, that’s coming closer to fruition as Davis is progressing nicely. Said Jim Zorn: “Now he is looking forward to stepping into a role and actually playing. Last year, he was wondering what it was all about. He kind of grew up to know that to be on the football field, you have to do things right and you have to play fast...He is just more comfortable. He knows the terminology now. When I call a particular play, he knows what that means to him now.”
In just a few short practices this offseason, Davis appears (to me) have completely turned things around. He's looked fast and athletic in practices, and he's appeared focused while working. But today -- for the third or fourth straight day -- I was struck by Davis's footspeed after the catch. He's a big guy, but is remarkably quick.
I talked to Davis about minicamp and the first week of OTAs, but first I talked to head coach Jim Zorn about if he had seen the same differences in Davis that I had.
"Oh, he's very different than last year when he came in," Zorn said. "More explosive. He looked powerful, caught the ball well."
"He's much more confident, and he knows we want him to be on that field -- and that's what he's getting ready for. He's not just trying to make the team, you know."
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:30 pm
by SkinsFreak
El Mexican wrote:Then, my friend, we have practically no one to back him up because Davis showed nothing during his rookie season.
TE is not an area of need in this team. The receiving corps is.
I understand that receivers have a higher learning curve than other positions, but if you can´t beat old man James Thrash then you have a problem in your hands. "Our WRs were injured", you say. Well start drafting players with a better medical history.
QFL!!!
I can't even waste my time with such a stupid post.
Folks, don't explain it to him, just let him keep on thinking this way. It's hilarious, seriously.
Dude... just... ... ... ... ... ... nevermind.
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:18 pm
by yupchagee
SkinsFreak wrote:yupchagee wrote:In 2 TE sets, the 2nd TE is usually a blocker, which Davis isn't. While it's nice to have depth, you don't use a 2nd rnd pick on a player you don't see as starting in a couple of years.
Making a comment such as the one I highlighted proves beyond any reasonable doubt that you don't follow the team very closely and have no idea of what you're talking about. Because if you think they don't plan on using him for a couple of years... I mean... that's just ignorant. Davis
will be playing this year.
It's rather
evident you aren't following the team or listening to Zorn. Zorn has spoken
numerous times about formations utilizing multiple pass catching TE's. As I said before, he spoke about it again this past weekend. In some formations he might split one out or could use them both on the end of the line. Perhaps you should give the coach the benefit of the doubt and watch his offense in it's second year before you condemn it. I'm quite sure Zorn knows what he's doing and what he intends, while those who don't follow very closely have no idea.
I'm not going to waste my time to pull up every recent quote from Zorn regarding the use of Davis, but here's a few...
Question: How is Fred Davis growing and maturing as a tight end? Can we expect contributions from him this year?
-- Steve W.
Gary:
The goal has always been to get Davis and Chris ey on the field at the same time. This year, that’s coming closer to fruition as Davis is progressing nicely. Said Jim Zorn: “Now he is looking forward to stepping into a role and actually playing. Last year, he was wondering what it was all about. He kind of grew up to know that to be on the football field, you have to do things right and you have to play fast...He is just more comfortable. He knows the terminology now. When I call a particular play, he knows what that means to him now.”
In just a few short practices this offseason, Davis appears (to me) have completely turned things around. He's looked fast and athletic in practices, and he's appeared focused while working. But today -- for the third or fourth straight day -- I was struck by Davis's footspeed after the catch. He's a big guy, but is remarkably quick.
I talked to Davis about minicamp and the first week of OTAs, but first I talked to head coach Jim Zorn about if he had seen the same differences in Davis that I had.
"Oh, he's very different than last year when he came in," Zorn said. "More explosive. He looked powerful, caught the ball well."
"He's much more confident, and he knows we want him to be on that field -- and that's what he's getting ready for. He's not just trying to make the team, you know."
I didn't say play, I said
START
As long as
ey is healthy, Davis will not start. It was a bad use of the pick.