The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

VetSkinsFan wrote:He wasn't as bad as you're making him out to be. He made 4 Pro Bowls. That doesn't say he's the best, but that does say he's not close to the worst.

<sigh> I guess I shouldn't have used a name. It seems that the forest is missed for the trees. I was simply pointing out that a QB that can scramble and make things happen have that added element that defenses have to consider.

I didn't think it was that difficult to comprehend, but again, I used a name of an NFC East rival and got some feathers ruffled.

You definitely had to account for him scrambling in your gameplan. No one missed your point or got feathers ruffled.

I was just making the point that if you kept them contained, they usually would not beat you with their QB skills. I agree with SF33, Cunningham > Vick.

VetSkinsFan wrote:There can be more in today's NFL QB than standing back there in the pocket and throwing the ball. I like the idea of having a QB that can move when he wants to. I like the skill set that these scramblers bring. If they have the right mentor and the right mentality (maybe Steve Young can get my point across?), it can add a dimension to an offense that can weigh heavily in our favor. Needing to keep a spy on the QB keeps a double team or a two deep from happening as often.

Steve Young is an excellent example, but even he had to curtail his scrambling toward the end of his career; too many concussions.

Man, Cunningham was a nightmare for the Skins-D during the early 90s.

I would love to hear what Richie Pettitbon would say today about the olden days when they prepared to play against Philly.

Smithian wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Good points NJ-Skins, I agree 100% that he needs to get away from the South.

Because we're just old rednecks, racists, klansmen, etc down here? Come on, what a weak argument.

for the record:

i never said playing in the south, i said playing in DC cause it is close to where the crimes took place.

i think he is better off being as far away from Virgina area as possible as if that is NO or HOU or MIA.....i dont think that is a big deal, just far away from VA as possible.

as i stated in my earlier post

Smithian wrote:I can't believe that anyone can even think about accepting him again just because he has served his jail sentence. I may be from an overly conservative area, but down here when you electrocute, drown, maim, and torture animals, you aren't a dude who gets a pat on the back and a thumbs up when you get out of jail.

Dear God, I hope you all don't let child rapists back in to society just because "they've served their debt to society".

A terrible human being destined to burn in hell is a terrible human being destined to burn in hell, jail or no jail.

i think the problem is, when people are saying "he paid his debt" people are thinking and refering to paying his debtor for the actual act of running the dog fighting and everything that went with it. (killing dogs, rape stand ect..)

IIRC....(i could be wrong) but he did paid his debt for the "bank rolling" of the illegal gambling ring that was tide to the dog fighting on his property... the charges were for that...for bank rolling the fighting and gambling that comes with it, is why he went to jail...


not with the actual act of participating in all of the stuff that everyone was upset with (killing, ect..)

NJ-SKINS-FAN wrote:

Smithian wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Good points NJ-Skins, I agree 100% that he needs to get away from the South.

Because we're just old rednecks, racists, klansmen, etc down here? Come on, what a weak argument.

for the record:

i never said playing in the south, i said playing in DC cause it is close to where the crimes took place.

i think he is better off being as far away from Virgina area as possible as if that is NO or HOU or MIA.....i dont think that is a big deal, just far away from VA as possible.

as i stated in my earlier post

He did all that while playing in Atlanta. I think the West coast might be in order, and I can see the Raiders signing him. Still he would traveling home during the off-season, so I don't know if playing location is really the answer.

El Mexican wrote:Man, Cunningham was a nightmare for the Skins-D during the early 90s.

I would love to hear what Richie Pettitbon would say today about the olden days when they prepared to play against Philly.

He'd probably say something like "I'd slap Alvin Walton on him and hope Cunningham takes off..."

For those not in the know, Alvin Walton was a Strong Safety who was built like a middle linebacker, and could hit like Palomalou. Perpetual All Madden team...

Bone never quite solved Cunningham, however... it was a lot like Tiki Barber, who always managed to, somehow, some way, embarass the skins...

Back to the thread. I think that, while Vick is a supremely superior athlete incomparison with Cunningham (that's saying something, 'cause Cunningham was a heck of an athlete), Cunningham was the better quarterback.

NJ-SKINS-FAN wrote:

Smithian wrote:I can't believe that anyone can even think about accepting him again just because he has served his jail sentence. I may be from an overly conservative area, but down here when you electrocute, drown, maim, and torture animals, you aren't a dude who gets a pat on the back and a thumbs up when you get out of jail.

Dear God, I hope you all don't let child rapists back in to society just because "they've served their debt to society".

A terrible human being destined to burn in hell is a terrible human being destined to burn in hell, jail or no jail.

i think the problem is, when people are saying "he paid his debt" people are thinking and refering to paying his debtor for the actual act of running the dog fighting and everything that went with it. (killing dogs, rape stand ect..)

IIRC....(i could be wrong) but he did paid his debt for the "bank rolling" of the illegal gambling ring that was tide to the dog fighting on his property... the charges were for that...for bank rolling the fighting and gambling that comes with it, is why he went to jail...


not with the actual act of participating in all of the stuff that everyone was upset with (killing, ect..)

If all charges have been assets (guilty or not guilty) and he serves his time, is he not allowed to return to some normalcy of life?

And since all things living deserve respect, how much time should I do? I think this year alone, I killed probably more than a thousand ants. That's 1 0 0 0...in about a 6 week timetable. I prefer lethal injection to the chair...

VetSkinsFan wrote:

NJ-SKINS-FAN wrote:

Smithian wrote:I can't believe that anyone can even think about accepting him again just because he has served his jail sentence. I may be from an overly conservative area, but down here when you electrocute, drown, maim, and torture animals, you aren't a dude who gets a pat on the back and a thumbs up when you get out of jail.

Dear God, I hope you all don't let child rapists back in to society just because "they've served their debt to society".

A terrible human being destined to burn in hell is a terrible human being destined to burn in hell, jail or no jail.

i think the problem is, when people are saying "he paid his debt" people are thinking and refering to paying his debtor for the actual act of running the dog fighting and everything that went with it. (killing dogs, rape stand ect..)

IIRC....(i could be wrong) but he did paid his debt for the "bank rolling" of the illegal gambling ring that was tide to the dog fighting on his property... the charges were for that...for bank rolling the fighting and gambling that comes with it, is why he went to jail...


not with the actual act of participating in all of the stuff that everyone was upset with (killing, ect..)

If all charges have been assets (guilty or not guilty) and he serves his time, is he not allowed to return to some normalcy of life?

And since all things living deserve respect, how much time should I do? I think this year alone, I killed probably more than a thousand ants. That's 1 0 0 0...in about a 6 week timetable. I prefer lethal injection to the chair...

where did i say he cant return to some normalcy of life?

comparing what he was apart of to killing ants??

VetSkinsFan wrote:There can be more in today's NFL QB than standing back there in the pocket and throwing the ball. I like the idea of having a QB that can move when he wants to. I like the skill set that these scramblers bring. If they have the right mentor and the right mentality (maybe Steve Young can get my point across?), it can add a dimension to an offense that can weigh heavily in our favor. Needing to keep a spy on the QB keeps a double team or a two deep from happening as often.

Steve Young never won a SB until he learned to stay in the pocket and he was no longer considered a running QB. Same for Elway!!

Name one guy that won the big one that was still a "running QB".

We should sign him, deny the enemy. He's be a decent backup, line him up at RB see what he can do. Everyone deserves a second chance, he has IMO paid his debt. He'd be a cheap deal right now and perfect QB for the our D during practice.

SKINFAN wrote:We should sign him, deny the enemy. He's be a decent backup, line him up at RB see what he can do. Everyone deserves a second chance, he has IMO paid his debt. He'd be a cheap deal right now and perfect QB for the our D during practice.

He won't be cleared to play till the end of camp & he hasn't played for a couple of years. I don't see him contributing anywhere. this year.

Ignoring my hate for Vick, can you imagine how much crap we'd take for signing him? Of course a team like the Patriots would be declared as geniuses for signing him, but the media would crucify us for signing him.

Smithian wrote:Ignoring my hate for Vick, can you imagine how much crap we'd take for signing him? Of course a team like the Patriots would be declared as geniuses for signing him, but the media would crucify us for signing him.

That's why I think the Raiders and maybe Dallas are the only teams that would really sign him.

NJ-SKINS-FAN wrote:comparing what he was apart of to killing ants??

LOL so dogs are more important than ants? A life is a life right? What if he ripped their legs off while they were still alive?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

NJ-SKINS-FAN wrote:comparing what he was apart of to killing ants??

LOL so dogs are more important than ants? A life is a life right? What if he ripped their legs off while they were still alive?

I enjoy being hypocritical.

If you want to go that low though as a sarcastic respone, why is the name
"Redskins" ok, but if the name "Gooks", "Krauts", or worse were used, all hell would break loose. Offensive is offensive. We can play this game all day...

If you want to compare ants to dogs, then you have pretty much gone further than I ever have and you have started a long slope downwards for this topic.

Deadskins wrote:

Smithian wrote:Ignoring my hate for Vick, can you imagine how much crap we'd take for signing him? Of course a team like the Patriots would be declared as geniuses for signing him, but the media would crucify us for signing him.

That's why I think the Raiders and maybe Dallas are the only teams that would really sign him.

Or the Bungles.

Smithian wrote:why is the name "Redskins" ok, but if the name "Gooks", "Krauts", or worse were used, all hell would break loose.

Because "Redskins" is not a slur, but the direct translation, from French, of an Illinois tribe's own word for native Americans. All those other words used as comparisons to "Redskins" to make it seem derogatory, were coined by individuals not within the associated group.

Smithian wrote:If you want to compare ants to dogs, then you have pretty much gone further than I ever have and you have started a long slope downwards for this topic.

I just find a lot of dog lovers to be extremists. I find a lot of their continued hatred of a man that has served his time to be disturbing.

You find it silly to place an ants life over a dogs? Well I found it 4x as dumb that people equate the life of a dog to that of a human being. Athletes have killed people and it got 1/10 of the attention that this got. Vick deserved to do time, what he did was horrible but the whole ordeal turned into a malicious hunt for his life.

I find them to be just as sick as they feel he is.

Deadskins wrote:

Smithian wrote:why is the name "Redskins" ok, but if the name "Gooks", "Krauts", or worse were used, all hell would break loose.

Because "Redskins" is not a slur, but the direct translation, from French, of an Illinois tribe's own word for native Americans. All those other words used as comparisons to "Redskins" to make it seem derogatory, were coined by individuals not within the associated group.

Hey! Sh... This topic is not meant for serious discussion.

Vick has served his time for the crime he committed BUT unfortunately for him there is another 'court' that has to decide if he can play in the NFL. That is the NFL's 'court' and that is solely the responsibility of Roger Goodell. The NFL has a "code of conduct" policy that has absolutely nothing to do with the US justice system. When Goodell is satisfied that allowing Vick back into the NFL is not bad for the NFL's image then he will be re-instated.

This has nothing to do with this country's laws or rules of how to behave - this is now all about the NFL's image and when Goodell decides it is OK for Vick to come back into the NFL it will be solely based on the NFL's image and not because "he has suffered enough" - IF Goodell is not satisfied that Vick is worth the risk then he will not be allowed to be a part of the NFL until that is no longer an issue

SkinsJock wrote:Vick has served his time for the crime he committed BUT unfortunately for him there is another 'court' that has to decide if he can play in the NFL. That is the NFL's 'court' and that is solely the responsibility of Roger Goodell. The NFL has a "code of conduct" policy that has absolutely nothing to do with the US justice system. When Goodell is satisfied that allowing Vick back into the NFL is not bad for the NFL's image then he will be re-instated.

This has nothing to do with this country's laws or rules of how to behave - this is now all about the NFL's image and when Goodell decides it is OK for Vick to come back into the NFL it will be solely based on the NFL's image and not because "he has suffered enough" - IF Goodell is not satisfied that Vick is worth the risk then he will not be allowed to be a part of the NFL until that is no longer an issue

I have no problem with that, it's understandable and logical. I just have an issue with dog nuts (lol, didn't mean for it to sound like that) wishing he was dead or saying they'll protest. It's their right to do so but they're out for blood, I can't respect that.

Smithian wrote:Ignoring my hate for Vick, can you imagine how much crap we'd take for signing him? Of course a team like the Patriots would be declared as geniuses for signing him, but the media would crucify us for signing him.

I don't care what the 'media' does. If he'll improve the team and abide by the rules, then what's the problem?

VetSkinsFan wrote: I don't care what the 'media' does. If he'll improve the team and abide by the rules, then what's the problem?

I agree - this and any team should add any player that they feel will help their team be better. I do not see him being a good fit here although I understand VSF's 'dream' about utilizing this guy's talents. There are probably 3 or 4 teams that might bring him in if he gets re-instated by Goodell but no team should worry about what a bunch of armchair QB's think OR what the fans think - if Goodell decides that he's not bad for The NFL's image, then Vick should get another opportunity to play. I just think that with all this time and the timing of his re-instatement (maybe July) that he will not get much of a chance this year.

Personally, I don't think he should be brought back into the NFL but if he is re-instated then he is entitled to play wherever he can. .

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Smithian wrote:Ignoring my hate for Vick, can you imagine how much crap we'd take for signing him? Of course a team like the Patriots would be declared as geniuses for signing him, but the media would crucify us for signing him.

I don't care what the 'media' does. If he'll improve the team and abide by the rules, then what's the problem?

is the operative word. He's a much better athlete than foorball player.