Why not an OT, and why a TE and WR instead?

[brad7686]

He has about as much of a shot as Dallas Sartz. Everybody thought i was wrong to get on Vinny about him too. We could have Mason Crosby instead and be making field goals all over the place.

Or we could have drafted Josh Gaddis, or Eric Frampton, or Clint Oldenberg, etc. It's brave of you to conclude that a 5th round player is a longshot to be an NFL star. Very brave.

Again, 5th, 6th, and 7th round draft picks rarely make it in the NFL. It's a freaking guessing game at that point. And if you read my post from a few pages back, there are a grand total of 7 offensive tackles who were 2008 starters in the NFL that were drafted in the 5th-7th round. And of those, only 1 (David Diehl) is anything close to an established player.

As Rich Tandler wrote:

If you want to argue that the Skins should have taken Jamon Meredith or Duke Robinson or Fenuki Tupou instead of Cody Glenn in the fifth, fine. I'll concede that one. The rest of the league, however, didn't seem to think as much of them as Kiper, Mayock, and the rest of the draft "experts" did. We can compare over the years and see how they turn out just like we do with other players the Redskins could have had like LaRon Landry vs. Amobi Okoye or Fred Davis vs. Calais Campbell.

While you can get lucky every once in a while you aren't going to solve your problem areas for this year in the fifth round and later. If you want to debate Robert Henson vs. Tackle X or Eddie Williams vs. Tackle Y, be my guest. Again, time will tell.

The Redskins didn't lose their opportunity to take a tackle in this draft over the weekend. They lost it last August when they dealt their second-round pick for Jason Taylor and when their fourth-rounder went to the Jets for Pete Kendall two years ago. That limited their options both in terms of sheer numbers and in the opportunity to move up and down. A second-round pick such as Phil Loadholt of Oklahoma would have made the whole draft look a lot better.

But you can't draft the draft you wish was there you have to work with was actually is there. Time will tell how this one will turn out.

During that pick, I was saying they should take Mason Crosby or Ben Patrick. I remember it like it was yesterday. Both those players see the field on sundays. Its not like you can't get good talent in the 5th round, you just have to try. Also, the OT's in the second weren't much better than Meredith. Believe me, Loadholt WILL NOT be special.

[Irn-Bru]

I can vouch for brad on this one; I got on his case when he was down on Sartz. . .although he did give the FO credit for picking up Blades when they did. Anyway, it seemed like it was too early to call, in my view. Then when September rolled around, Sartz was gone and Blades became the gem.

Since I'm not the expert, I don't have too strong an opinion on this one. But I do think there is more than just WAGing going on here, Pulp.

[PulpExposure]

I'm not particularly invested in this, either. But, to castigate the Redskins FO for not drafting Meredith, when no other NFL team drafted him until the Packers (despite his Mel Kiper grade), is flatly ridiculous.

Seriously, I find it incredibly amusing when people get fired up about players drafted or not drafted in late rounds, because it's been shown, time and again, that the draft is a total crapshoot, notably past the 4th round. If you can find a guy who will stick in your roster, that's just gravy. And to be honest, in my opinion, the Redskins have recently been okay with getting late round talent; Montgomery, Golston, Blades, Horton, Moore; all young guys drafted late, and all guys who have played for us (and in some cases, show a lot of potential).

The cardinal issue with the Redskins FO and the draft isn't getting players with our draft picks; it's simply that we trade away too many of our draft picks like they're candy. For example, the Redskins drafted Orakpo, helping to solve a long-standing issue at DE. And in the 3rd round, the Skins picked up Barnes, who could potentially replace Rogers (should he choose to leave)...and can step right in and play the slot corner (a role we didn't have filled once Springs left). It's not surprising that the Redskins didn't pick an OT in the 3rd round, as Tandler writes:

After Barnes was drafted with the 16th pick of the third round, no team took an offensive lineman for the rest of that round. Not one. The next offensive lineman to go was a center, Jonathan Lugis out of Arkansas, with the sixth pick of the fourth round (106 overall). The next player listed as an offensive tackle to go was T. J. Land of Eastern Michigan, who went a few picks later to Green Bay with the 109th overall pick. A Google search reveals, however, that it appears that he is being thought of more as a guard than as a tackle.

You have to go to the 35th pick of the fourth round, all the way to pick number 135, to find the next tackle taken. Troy Kropog of Tulane went to the Titans with a compensatory pick. Reaching by 50 picks, a round and a half, to fill a need is not the way to build through the draft.

At that point, the Skins were picking in the 5th round. Again, in the 5th round, you're just hoping to draft a guy who can play for you. The Redskins could play the lottery and hope to draft a OT that could step in and play (again, see the stats I wrote above; clearly, OT is not a position that's stocked with low-round talent). Or they could draft someone who maybe could develop into a decent player.

But...no. Instead, the Redskins' failure to draft some guy in the 5th round, that other teams had repeatedly passed on, who may develop into an OT in a few years (and, remember, Meredith is a developmental LT prospect, not a RT guy as he's a good pass protector), is a grand failure of the Redskins FO and no one else's FO. Understood.

There are so many hyper-critical posters here, that think the draft is far more certain than it actually is. From the tenor of most of the posts, you'd think the Redskins drafted like the Lions or some other woebegone franchise.

[brad7686]

I'm not particularly invested in this, either. But, to castigate the Redskins FO for not drafting Meredith, when no other NFL team drafted him until the Packers (despite his Mel Kiper grade), is flatly ridiculous.

Seriously, I find it incredibly amusing when people get fired up about players drafted or not drafted in late rounds, because it's been shown, time and again, that the draft is a total crapshoot, notably past the 4th round. If you can find a guy who will stick in your roster, that's just gravy. And to be honest, in my opinion, the Redskins have recently been okay with getting late round talent; Montgomery, Golston, Blades, Horton, Moore; all young guys drafted late, and all guys who have played for us (and in some cases, show a lot of potential).

The cardinal issue with the Redskins FO and the draft isn't getting players with our draft picks; it's simply that we trade away too many of our draft picks like they're candy. For example, the Redskins drafted Orakpo, helping to solve a long-standing issue at DE. And in the 3rd round, the Skins picked up Barnes, who could potentially replace Rogers (should he choose to leave)...and can step right in and play the slot corner (a role we didn't have filled once Springs left). It's not surprising that the Redskins didn't pick an OT in the 3rd round, as Tandler writes:

After Barnes was drafted with the 16th pick of the third round, no team took an offensive lineman for the rest of that round. Not one. The next offensive lineman to go was a center, Jonathan Lugis out of Arkansas, with the sixth pick of the fourth round (106 overall). The next player listed as an offensive tackle to go was T. J. Land of Eastern Michigan, who went a few picks later to Green Bay with the 109th overall pick. A Google search reveals, however, that it appears that he is being thought of more as a guard than as a tackle.

You have to go to the 35th pick of the fourth round, all the way to pick number 135, to find the next tackle taken. Troy Kropog of Tulane went to the Titans with a compensatory pick. Reaching by 50 picks, a round and a half, to fill a need is not the way to build through the draft.

At that point, the Skins were picking in the 5th round. Again, in the 5th round, you're just hoping to draft a guy who can play for you. The Redskins could play the lottery and hope to draft a OT that could step in and play (again, see the stats I wrote above; clearly, OT is not a position that's stocked with low-round talent). Or they could draft someone who maybe could develop into a decent player.

But...no. Instead, the Redskins' failure to draft some guy in the 5th round, that other teams had repeatedly passed on, who may develop into an OT in a few years (and, remember, Meredith is a developmental LT prospect, not a RT guy as he's a good pass protector), is a grand failure of the Redskins FO and no one else's FO. Understood.

There are so many hyper-critical posters here, that think the draft is far more certain than it actually is. From the tenor of most of the posts, you'd think the Redskins drafted like the Lions or some other woebegone franchise.

They draft early well, which isn't hard to do. The lions mess that up all the time, so no they aren't the lions. They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL. Examples would be Dallas Sartz and Cody Glenn.

[PulpExposure]

They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL.

As does every team....

[DEHog]

They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL.

As does every team....

Agreed, but I would argue if your going to do that why not do it at a position of need..which they did (LB) but there was also a need at OL that's why some are upset.. two cents

[Deadskins]

They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL.

As does every team....

Agreed, but I would argue if your going to do that why not do it at a position of need..which they did (LB) but there was also a need at OL that's why some are upset.. two cents

More than one need. Took the better player in their opinion (or at least the player with a better chance to contribute this season). Can't fault them for that.

[SkinsFreak]

They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL.

As does every team....

Exactly. As I've pointed out several times in the past, the Patriot's drafted 11 players two years ago and only ONE made the opening day roster. You have to take a lot of aspects into consideration, such as the current roster itself, before you draft and reach to fill a need.

And for the record, from the start of the 3rd round, when Kiper had Meredith on his best available list, there were 7 OT's drafted before Green Bay finally took Meredith with the 162 pick. Likewise, there were 5 OG's selected in that same time span before Duke Robinson was drafted by the Panthers with the 163 pick.

Again, the evidence supports that 32 teams didn't grade Meredith or Robinson as high as Kiper.

[brad7686]

They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL.

As does every team....

Exactly. As I've pointed out several times in the past, the Patriot's drafted 11 players two years ago and only ONE made the opening day roster. You have to take a lot of aspects into consideration, such as the current roster itself, before you draft and reach to fill a need.

And for the record, from the start of the 3rd round, when Kiper had Meredith on his best available list, there were 7 OT's drafted before Green Bay finally took Meredith with the 162 pick. Likewise, there were 5 OG's selected in that same time span before Duke Robinson was drafted by the Panthers with the 163 pick.

Again, the evidence supports that 32 teams didn't grade Meredith or Robinson as high as Kiper.

That doesn't make the teams that passed on them right. I know it doesn't seem like some douche on tv should know more about the draft then teams. However, Scouting services do MUCH better when you look at the track record than NFL teams do.

[SkinsFreak]

They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL.

As does every team....

Agreed, but I would argue if your going to do that why not do it at a position of need..which they did (LB) but there was also a need at OL that's why some are upset.. two cents

Because as every GM will tell you, and they have about a gazillion times in the past few weeks, you follow your board, draft for value and don't reach to fill a need. Andy Reid was talking about this very same thing during a Day 2 interview on ESPN.

[SkinsFreak]

They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL.

As does every team....

Exactly. As I've pointed out several times in the past, the Patriot's drafted 11 players two years ago and only ONE made the opening day roster. You have to take a lot of aspects into consideration, such as the current roster itself, before you draft and reach to fill a need.

And for the record, from the start of the 3rd round, when Kiper had Meredith on his best available list, there were 7 OT's drafted before Green Bay finally took Meredith with the 162 pick. Likewise, there were 5 OG's selected in that same time span before Duke Robinson was drafted by the Panthers with the 163 pick.

Again, the evidence supports that 32 teams didn't grade Meredith or Robinson as high as Kiper.

That doesn't make the teams that passed on them right. I know it doesn't seem like some douche on tv should know more about the draft then teams. However, Scouting services do MUCH better when you look at the track record than NFL teams do.

Brad, you're really reaching, bro. If that's the case, then every GM, scout and all 32 NFL front offices made a mistake. I seriously doubt that. One or two so-called experts said Meredith was worth a 3rd round pick. Well, hundreds of scouts, GM's and personnel people who are actually employed in the business had a different opinion.

[brad7686]

They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL.

As does every team....

Exactly. As I've pointed out several times in the past, the Patriot's drafted 11 players two years ago and only ONE made the opening day roster. You have to take a lot of aspects into consideration, such as the current roster itself, before you draft and reach to fill a need.

And for the record, from the start of the 3rd round, when Kiper had Meredith on his best available list, there were 7 OT's drafted before Green Bay finally took Meredith with the 162 pick. Likewise, there were 5 OG's selected in that same time span before Duke Robinson was drafted by the Panthers with the 163 pick.

Again, the evidence supports that 32 teams didn't grade Meredith or Robinson as high as Kiper.

That doesn't make the teams that passed on them right. I know it doesn't seem like some douche on tv should know more about the draft then teams. However, Scouting services do MUCH better when you look at the track record than NFL teams do.

Brad, you're really reaching, bro. If that's the case, then every GM, scout and all 32 NFL front offices made a mistake. I seriously doubt that. One or two so-called experts said Meredith was worth a 3rd round pick. Well, hundreds of scouts, GM's and personnel people who are actually employed in the business had a different opinion.

100$ says Jamon Meredith has a better career than Cody Glenn. You in?

[Fios]

They do however, at times in later rounds, draft guys that have no chance of playing in the NFL.

As does every team....

Exactly. As I've pointed out several times in the past, the Patriot's drafted 11 players two years ago and only ONE made the opening day roster. You have to take a lot of aspects into consideration, such as the current roster itself, before you draft and reach to fill a need.

And for the record, from the start of the 3rd round, when Kiper had Meredith on his best available list, there were 7 OT's drafted before Green Bay finally took Meredith with the 162 pick. Likewise, there were 5 OG's selected in that same time span before Duke Robinson was drafted by the Panthers with the 163 pick.

Again, the evidence supports that 32 teams didn't grade Meredith or Robinson as high as Kiper.

That doesn't make the teams that passed on them right. I know it doesn't seem like some douche on tv should know more about the draft then teams. However, Scouting services do MUCH better when you look at the track record than NFL teams do.

Brad, you're really reaching, bro. If that's the case, then every GM, scout and all 32 NFL front offices made a mistake. I seriously doubt that. One or two so-called experts said Meredith was worth a 3rd round pick. Well, hundreds of scouts, GM's and personnel people who are actually employed in the business had a different opinion.

100$ says Jamon Meredith has a better career than Cody Glenn. You in?

What's wrong with just saying you disagree?

[Deadskins]

100$ says Jamon Meredith has a better career than Cody Glenn. You in?

What's wrong with just saying you disagree?

It's not as dramatic. Do I win if they have the same career? (i.e. neither makes the opening day roster?)

[brad7686]

Here is a list of the Giants Draft picks since 2003. It appears most of you believe that after the first round it doesn't matter who you take because they are all bad. The Giants are just one of several teams that find GOOD STARTERS in later rounds. They don't do this by reaching for players no one has ever heard of. Actual good players.

2008 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Kenny Phillips FS Miami (Fla.)
2 63 Terrell Thomas CB USC
3 95 Mario Manningham WR Michigan
4 123 Bryan Kehl OLB Brigham Young
5 165 Jonathan Goff LB Vanderbilt
6 198 Andre Woodson QB Kentucky
6 199 Robert Henderson DE Southern Mississippi
2007 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Aaron Ross CB Texas
2 51 Steve Smith WR USC
3 81 Jay Alford NT Penn State
4 116 Zak DeOssie LB Brown
5 153 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon
6 189 Adam Koets T Oregon State
7 224 Michael Johnson SAF Arizona
7 250 Ahmad Bradshaw RB Marshall
2006 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College
2 44 Sinorice Moss WR Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Gerris Wilkinson LB Georgia Tech
4 124 Barry Cofield NT Northwestern
4 129 Guy Whimper T East Carolina
5 158 Charlie Peprah DB Alabama
7 232 Gerrick McPhearson DB Maryland
2005 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 43 Corey Webster DB Louisiana State
3 74 Justin Tuck DE Notre Dame
4 110 Brandon Jacobs RB Southern Illinois
6 186 Eric Moore DE Florida State
2004 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 4 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State
2 34 Chris Snee G Boston College
4 97 Reggie Torbor DE Auburn
5 136 Gibril Wilson SS Tennessee
6 168 Jamaar Taylor WR Texas A&M
7 203 Drew Strojny T Duke
7 253 Isaac Hilton -- Hampton
2003 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 William Joseph DT Miami (Fla.)
2 56 Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State
3 91 Visanthe Shiancoe TE Morgan State
4 123 Rod Babers DB Texas
5 160 David Diehl G Illinois
6 199 Willie Ponder WR Southeast Missouri State
6 207 Frank Walker CB Tuskegee
6 211 David Tyree WR Syracuse
7 240 Charles Drake -- Michigan
7 249 Wayne Lucier G Colorado
7 255 Kevin Walter WR Eastern Michigan

How many of those names do you know? Exactly. They had another gem this draft. It sucks. Diehl in the 5th, Shiancoe in the third, Umenyiora in the second, Gibril Wilson in the 5th, Chris Snee in the second, Brandon Jacobs in the 4th, Corey Webster in the 2nd, Justin Tuck in the 3rd, Barry Cofield in the 4th, Ahmad Bradshaw in the 7th, Kevin Boss in the 5th, and Steve Smith in the second. And the thing is, People knew they had a good draft after it happened. Just like people know that Green Bay had a good draft this year, because they all mention they picked up 5 potential starters. Two of those are T.J. Lang and Jamon Meredith, guys the skins could have had if they didn't think Stephon Heyer was actually good.

[Deadskins]

Here is a list of the Giants Draft picks since 2003. It appears most of you believe that after the first round it doesn't matter who you take because they are all bad. The Giants are just one of several teams that find GOOD STARTERS in later rounds. They don't do this by reaching for players no one has ever heard of. Actual good players.

2008 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Kenny Phillips FS Miami (Fla.)
2 63 Terrell Thomas CB USC
3 95 Mario Manningham WR Michigan
4 123 Bryan Kehl OLB Brigham Young
5 165 Jonathan Goff LB Vanderbilt
6 198 Andre Woodson QB Kentucky
6 199 Robert Henderson DE Southern Mississippi
2007 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Aaron Ross CB Texas
2 51 Steve Smith WR USC
3 81 Jay Alford NT Penn State
4 116 Zak DeOssie LB Brown
5 153 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon
6 189 Adam Koets T Oregon State
7 224 Michael Johnson SAF Arizona
7 250 Ahmad Bradshaw RB Marshall
2006 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College
2 44 Sinorice Moss WR Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Gerris Wilkinson LB Georgia Tech
4 124 Barry Cofield NT Northwestern
4 129 Guy Whimper T East Carolina
5 158 Charlie Peprah DB Alabama
7 232 Gerrick McPhearson DB Maryland
2005 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 43 Corey Webster DB Louisiana State
3 74 Justin Tuck DE Notre Dame
4 110 Brandon Jacobs RB Southern Illinois
6 186 Eric Moore DE Florida State
2004 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 4 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State
2 34 Chris Snee G Boston College
4 97 Reggie Torbor DE Auburn
5 136 Gibril Wilson SS Tennessee
6 168 Jamaar Taylor WR Texas A&M
7 203 Drew Strojny T Duke
7 253 Isaac Hilton -- Hampton
2003 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 William Joseph DT Miami (Fla.)
2 56 Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State
3 91 Visanthe Shiancoe TE Morgan State
4 123 Rod Babers DB Texas
5 160 David Diehl G Illinois
6 199 Willie Ponder WR Southeast Missouri State
6 207 Frank Walker CB Tuskegee
6 211 David Tyree WR Syracuse
7 240 Charles Drake -- Michigan
7 249 Wayne Lucier G Colorado
7 255 Kevin Walter WR Eastern Michigan

How many of those names do you know? Exactly. They had another gem this draft. It sucks. Diehl in the 5th, Shiancoe in the third, Umenyiora in the second, Gibril Wilson in the 5th, Chris Snee in the second, Brandon Jacobs in the 4th, Corey Webster in the 2nd, Justin Tuck in the 3rd, Barry Cofield in the 4th, Ahmad Bradshaw in the 7th, Kevin Boss in the 5th, and Steve Smith in the second. And the thing is, People knew they had a good draft after it happened. Just like people know that Green Bay had a good draft this year, because they all mention they picked up 5 potential starters. Two of those are T.J. Lang and Jamon Meredith, guys the skins could have had if they didn't think Stephon Heyer was actually good.

That's ridiculous, Brad. They've had about the same late round (5-7) success as the Skins over the same period. Where are you getting this "after the first round" crap?

[Countertrey]

That's ridiculous, Brad. They've had about the same late round (5-7)success as the Skins over the same period. Where are you getting this "after the first round" crap?

How is he supposed to win an argument with you trying to handcuff him with the original scope of his arguement? A flexible interpretation of the breadth of discussion is sometimes a requirement for successful bloviation. 'snot fair. Jeese...

[brad7686]

Here is a list of the Giants Draft picks since 2003. It appears most of you believe that after the first round it doesn't matter who you take because they are all bad. The Giants are just one of several teams that find GOOD STARTERS in later rounds. They don't do this by reaching for players no one has ever heard of. Actual good players.

2008 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Kenny Phillips FS Miami (Fla.)
2 63 Terrell Thomas CB USC
3 95 Mario Manningham WR Michigan
4 123 Bryan Kehl OLB Brigham Young
5 165 Jonathan Goff LB Vanderbilt
6 198 Andre Woodson QB Kentucky
6 199 Robert Henderson DE Southern Mississippi
2007 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 Aaron Ross CB Texas
2 51 Steve Smith WR USC
3 81 Jay Alford NT Penn State
4 116 Zak DeOssie LB Brown
5 153 Kevin Boss TE Western Oregon
6 189 Adam Koets T Oregon State
7 224 Michael Johnson SAF Arizona
7 250 Ahmad Bradshaw RB Marshall
2006 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College
2 44 Sinorice Moss WR Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Gerris Wilkinson LB Georgia Tech
4 124 Barry Cofield NT Northwestern
4 129 Guy Whimper T East Carolina
5 158 Charlie Peprah DB Alabama
7 232 Gerrick McPhearson DB Maryland
2005 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 43 Corey Webster DB Louisiana State
3 74 Justin Tuck DE Notre Dame
4 110 Brandon Jacobs RB Southern Illinois
6 186 Eric Moore DE Florida State
2004 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 4 Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State
2 34 Chris Snee G Boston College
4 97 Reggie Torbor DE Auburn
5 136 Gibril Wilson SS Tennessee
6 168 Jamaar Taylor WR Texas A&M
7 203 Drew Strojny T Duke
7 253 Isaac Hilton -- Hampton
2003 - New York Giants
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 25 William Joseph DT Miami (Fla.)
2 56 Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State
3 91 Visanthe Shiancoe TE Morgan State
4 123 Rod Babers DB Texas
5 160 David Diehl G Illinois
6 199 Willie Ponder WR Southeast Missouri State
6 207 Frank Walker CB Tuskegee
6 211 David Tyree WR Syracuse
7 240 Charles Drake -- Michigan
7 249 Wayne Lucier G Colorado
7 255 Kevin Walter WR Eastern Michigan

How many of those names do you know? Exactly. They had another gem this draft. It sucks. Diehl in the 5th, Shiancoe in the third, Umenyiora in the second, Gibril Wilson in the 5th, Chris Snee in the second, Brandon Jacobs in the 4th, Corey Webster in the 2nd, Justin Tuck in the 3rd, Barry Cofield in the 4th, Ahmad Bradshaw in the 7th, Kevin Boss in the 5th, and Steve Smith in the second. And the thing is, People knew they had a good draft after it happened. Just like people know that Green Bay had a good draft this year, because they all mention they picked up 5 potential starters. Two of those are T.J. Lang and Jamon Meredith, guys the skins could have had if they didn't think Stephon Heyer was actually good.

That's ridiculous, Brad. They've had about the same late round (5-7) success as the Skins over the same period. Where are you getting this "after the first round" crap?

Rounds 4-7 they have Jacobs, Cofield, Boss, Gibril Wilson, Bradshaw, Diehl. We only have one player worthy of starting in that range over that period. Chris Horton. Golston, Montgomery, and Doughty don't count if you are counting them, because they aren't starter quality. You could say Bradshaw doesn't count for them, I would accept that. he is good though.

[Deadskins]

First off, we're talking 5-7 here, not fourth rounders. (we didn't have one of those, remember?)
Secondly, you are already claiming a fifth round success for one of this draft's picks?... really?
Thirdly, does Blades not count? Why not?
Lastly, why do those others not count? Weren't they part of the #3 and #4 defenses in the NFL?

[brad7686]

First off, we're talking 5-7 here, not fourth rounders. (we didn't have one of those, remember?)
Secondly, you are already claiming a fifth round success for one of this draft's picks?... really?
Thirdly, does Blades not count? Why not?
Lastly, why do those others not count? Weren't they part of the #3 and #4 defenses in the NFL?

If i counted Golston and Montgomery I would have to count A LOT of Giants that have played in games in those rounds. I just counted the clear starters. Blades could count I guess since I don't think they will replace him. Golston and Montgomery started as a result of the team not going after DT's, and Griffin's bad health. Maybe I'll allow them to count as one. That's 5 or 6 for them as compared with 2 or 3 for us in the later rounds. Not to say we never make good late picks, we just phone it in on some. Like Cody Glenn.

[SkinsFreak]

That's ridiculous, Brad. They've had about the same late round (5-7)success as the Skins over the same period. Where are you getting this "after the first round" crap?

How is he supposed to win an argument with you trying to handcuff him with the original scope of his arguement? A flexible interpretation of the breadth of discussion is sometimes a requirement for successful bloviation. 'snot fair. Jeese...

I also love when folks say starters aren't starter quality. They're still starters, right? Or that they wouldn't be starters if we had Pro Bowlers at every position.

Brad, your "draft guru" status has been revoked.

[brad7686]

That's ridiculous, Brad. They've had about the same late round (5-7)success as the Skins over the same period. Where are you getting this "after the first round" crap?

How is he supposed to win an argument with you trying to handcuff him with the original scope of his arguement? A flexible interpretation of the breadth of discussion is sometimes a requirement for successful bloviation. 'snot fair. Jeese...

I also love when folks say starters aren't starter quality. They're still starters, right? Or that they wouldn't be starters if we had Pro Bowlers at every position.

Brad, your "draft guru" status has been revoked.

Lol you'll have to discuss that with JansenFan. Also, I won the 1-13 pick contest, so nobody has actually any legs to stand on if they want to replace me. I really don't know why we have a draft section on this site because it doesn't matter who the redskins draft. They are always right.

[Deadskins]

First off, we're talking 5-7 here, not fourth rounders. (we didn't have one of those, remember?)
Secondly, you are already claiming a fifth round success for one of this draft's picks?... really?
Thirdly, does Blades not count? Why not?
Lastly, why do those others not count? Weren't they part of the #3 and #4 defenses in the NFL?

If i counted Golston and Montgomery I would have to count A LOT of Giants that have played in games in those rounds. I just counted the clear starters. Blades could count I guess since I don't think they will replace him. Golston and Montgomery started as a result of the team not going after DT's, and Griffin's bad health. Maybe I'll allow them to count as one. That's 5 or 6 for them as compared with 2 or 3 for us in the later rounds. Not to say we never make good late picks, we just phone it in on some. Like Cody Glenn.

Um, no. Jacobs and Cofield are 4th rounders. That leaves Boss, Wilson, Bradshaw, and Diehl from your list, and you stated yourself that Bradshaw wasn't really a starter, so that leaves three for the Giants from '03 - '08. Tell me again how the 'Skins haven't had comparable success in the same rounds over that same period?

Edit: You could even make the argument we have had better success, due to the fact they have had more picks in those rounds over that time period, making our average hits higher than theirs.

[brad7686]

First off, we're talking 5-7 here, not fourth rounders. (we didn't have one of those, remember?)
Secondly, you are already claiming a fifth round success for one of this draft's picks?... really?
Thirdly, does Blades not count? Why not?
Lastly, why do those others not count? Weren't they part of the #3 and #4 defenses in the NFL?

If i counted Golston and Montgomery I would have to count A LOT of Giants that have played in games in those rounds. I just counted the clear starters. Blades could count I guess since I don't think they will replace him. Golston and Montgomery started as a result of the team not going after DT's, and Griffin's bad health. Maybe I'll allow them to count as one. That's 5 or 6 for them as compared with 2 or 3 for us in the later rounds. Not to say we never make good late picks, we just phone it in on some. Like Cody Glenn.

Um, no. Jacobs and Cofield are 4th rounders. That leaves Boss, Wilson, Bradshaw, and Diehl from your list, and you stated yourself that Bradshaw wasn't really a starter, so that leaves three for the Giants from '03 - '08. Tell me again how the 'Skins haven't had comparable success in the same rounds over that same period?

I'm talking about 4-7, also known as "second day" before they also moved round 3 to the second day.

[Deadskins]

I'm talking about 4-7, also known as "second day" before they also moved round 3 to the second day.

Originally we were discussing 5-7, since the Skins did not have any 4th round picks this year. Then you opened it up to anything after the first round, and when I called you on it, you narrowed it down to 4-7 to fit your argument. We've only had two fourth rounders over that period, and Tryon last year was one. Given time, he may turn out to be a Starter for us, making us 50% effective in that round.