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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:58 am
by 1niksder
Skinsfan55 wrote:People need SOMEONE to blame for the past few years of ineptitude so they look to Vinny because he's Danny's right hand man but look what he's done for the Redskins in his 1 year and 2 drafts for the Skins.
Vinny was hired back in 1999, have you forgot Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Irving Fryar, and Mark Carrier?
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:04 am
by Kilmer72
1niksder wrote:Skinsfan55 wrote:People need SOMEONE to blame for the past few years of ineptitude so they look to Vinny because he's Danny's right hand man but look what he's done for the Redskins in his 1 year and 2 drafts for the Skins.
Vinny was hired back in 1999, have you forgot Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Irving Fryar, and Mark Carrier?
Actually all those guys you mentioned contributed. I hate Sanders and he is an exception but he did play for us and did his job before he screwed us.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:05 am
by 1niksder
Kilmer72 wrote:1niksder wrote:Skinsfan55 wrote:People need SOMEONE to blame for the past few years of ineptitude so they look to Vinny because he's Danny's right hand man but look what he's done for the Redskins in his 1 year and 2 drafts for the Skins.
Vinny was hired back in 1999, have you forgot Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Irving Fryar, and Mark Carrier?
Actually all those guys you mentioned contributed. I hate Sanders and he is an exception but he did play for us and did his job before
he screwed us.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:08 am
by Kilmer72
1niksder wrote:Kilmer72 wrote:1niksder wrote:Skinsfan55 wrote:People need SOMEONE to blame for the past few years of ineptitude so they look to Vinny because he's Danny's right hand man but look what he's done for the Redskins in his 1 year and 2 drafts for the Skins.
Vinny was hired back in 1999, have you forgot Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders, Irving Fryar, and Mark Carrier?
Actually all those guys you mentioned contributed. I hate Sanders and he is an exception but he did play for us and did his job before
he screwed us.
yeah I know.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:03 am
by DEHog
Skinsfan55 wrote:You know, I am so tired of this B.S. about Vinny being a "lap dog" and Snyder being greedy and stupid.
Dan Snyder is an incredibly shewed businessman and a billionaire. Vinny Cerrato is a veteran personnel man in football and he is HIGHLY decorated in his career. People need SOMEONE to blame for the past few years of ineptitude so they look to Vinny because he's Danny's right hand man but look what he's done for the Redskins in his 1 year and 2 drafts for the Skins.
He masterfully traded back in the 2008 draft for extra picks. He traded down from 21 and got the player we wanted in the first place while picking up two second round picks. We got two of the top wideouts in the draft and the best college tight end in the nation.
He also got a good prospect in Chad Rinehart, Justin Tryon, Kareem Moore, Colt Brennan and Chris Horton.
To be fair he also traded a 2nd round pick for Jason Taylor which didn't work out, but that was due to injuries more than managerial incompetence. Taylor had no such health problems to warn us and just played injured the whole season.
Then in this draft he stayed pat at #13 even though they wanted Sanchez and got the guy they wanted all along! Probably the best 4-3 end in the whole draft.
He's gone after low risk, high reward guys (Robert Thomas, Mike Williams and others). It might not seem like much, but it's a smart way to go about business in sports. The Red Sox did it in 2003 and look how it paid off.
Vinny also got us Albert Haynesworth, Derrick Dockery, Daniels and Wynn too.
If you look at his record as GM so far it's pretty rock solid. Once we finally start winning I hope people give the front office the credit they deserve. The last couple years the Redskins have actually been managed pretty well, which sure is rare.
Stop bashing Vinny for giving up a second pick for JT...had he not done that we'd have drafted Mark Snachez
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:09 am
by DEHog
Here comes the fallout...
For the last 10 years, the Redskins have treated far too many people like trash. Maybe that's why their results so often look like "garbage in, garbage out." Now, with their whole Campbell calamity, they risked treating their dignified starting quarterback like disposable refuse.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/25/AR2009042503009.html
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:29 am
by tribeofjudah
It was all a ploy and smokescreen..........
Hog’s Haven speculates that the Redskins are playing up the fact that they want USC quaterback, Mark Sanchez, in order to draft someone else. I too feel they have some other needs to address before QB:
http://www.betfirms.com/redskins-draft- ... ns-042409/
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:52 am
by KazooSkinsFan
DEHog wrote:Here comes the fallout...
For the last 10 years, the Redskins have treated far too many people like trash. Maybe that's why their results so often look like "garbage in, garbage out." Now, with their whole Campbell calamity, they risked treating their dignified starting quarterback like disposable refuse.
I hate the Post sports columnists. I won't read Wise or Jenkins at all. When I hit this line I stopped reading the article. It's not that there isn't a point, but to put it this extreme was idiotic. And there has been stuff both ways, like with Arrington. And the players are supposed to be professionals and shouldn't need to be babied. Again, I'm not saying there isn't an issue here to explore, but to state it like he does is absurd and demonstrates exploring the issue's not his intent.
Wilbon is OK at best, and when a Bears fan is your best regular Skins columnists, you're not doing well. So maybe Snyder is trash, but so is the whole staff of Post sports columnists.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:56 am
by Skinsfan55
Man, it's easy to hate the Post sports page because they tell the truth and the team has been lousy for almost 20 years.
The Post isn't interested in being a cheerleader for the team and I can promise when things start going well for the Redskins they'll start reporting what's positive. You can either get your news from the Post where they have access and subjective insight or you can get your news from Larry Michael where he takes you deep inside Redskins Park to show how the team chef makes sloppy joe's.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:01 am
by KazooSkinsFan
Skinsfan55 wrote:Man, it's easy to hate the Post sports page because they tell the truth and the team has been lousy for almost 20 years.
The Post isn't interested in being a cheerleader for the team and I can promise when things start going well for the Redskins they'll start reporting what's positive. You can either get your news from the Post where they have access and subjective insight or you can get your news from Larry Michael where he takes you deep inside Redskins Park to show how the team chef makes sloppy joe's.
So our choices are that they hate the Redskins and mock and ridicule them or that they are cheerleaders for them? This is pointless because I clearly stated it was the EXTREMITY of the statement, not his opinion that I took issue with and you came back with they are not cheerleaders. That the only choices are those extreme positions is absurd.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:04 am
by SkinsFreak
KazooSkinsFan wrote:DEHog wrote:Here comes the fallout...
For the last 10 years, the Redskins have treated far too many people like trash. Maybe that's why their results so often look like "garbage in, garbage out." Now, with their whole Campbell calamity, they risked treating their dignified starting quarterback like disposable refuse.
I hate the Post sports columnists. I won't read Wise or Jenkins at all. When I hit this line I stopped reading the article. It's not that there isn't a point, but to put it this extreme was idiotic. And there has been stuff both ways, like with Arrington. And the players are supposed to be professionals and shouldn't need to be babied. Again, I'm not saying there isn't an issue here to explore, but to state it like he does is absurd and demonstrates exploring the issue's not his intent.
Wilbon is OK at best, and when a Bears fan is your best regular Skins columnists, you're not doing well. So maybe Snyder is trash, but so is the whole staff of Post sports columnists.
I totally agree, Kaz.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:11 am
by SkinsFreak
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Skinsfan55 wrote:Man, it's easy to hate the Post sports page because they tell the truth and the team has been lousy for almost 20 years.
The Post isn't interested in being a cheerleader for the team and I can promise when things start going well for the Redskins they'll start reporting what's positive. You can either get your news from the Post where they have access and subjective insight or you can get your news from Larry Michael where he takes you deep inside Redskins Park to show how the team chef makes sloppy joe's.
So our choices are that they hate the Redskins and mock and ridicule them or that they are cheerleaders for them? This is pointless because I clearly stated it was the EXTREMITY of the statement, not his opinion that I took issue with and you came back with they are not cheerleaders. That the only choices are those extreme positions is absurd.
Exactly. And when 99.9% of their articles are aimed to ridicule and mock their city's home team, they instantly loose credibility. I know some want to blame Snyder for the Post's current position, but why the Post would ever think that the preponderance of people in the D.C. area would want to pick up the local newspaper and read endless ridicule about their beloved home team is beyond me.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:13 am
by DEHog
SkinsFreak wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:DEHog wrote:Here comes the fallout...
For the last 10 years, the Redskins have treated far too many people like trash. Maybe that's why their results so often look like "garbage in, garbage out." Now, with their whole Campbell calamity, they risked treating their dignified starting quarterback like disposable refuse.
I hate the Post sports columnists. I won't read Wise or Jenkins at all. When I hit this line I stopped reading the article. It's not that there isn't a point, but to put it this extreme was idiotic. And there has been stuff both ways, like with Arrington. And the players are supposed to be professionals and shouldn't need to be babied. Again, I'm not saying there isn't an issue here to explore, but to state it like he does is absurd and demonstrates exploring the issue's not his intent.
Wilbon is OK at best, and when a Bears fan is your best regular Skins columnists, you're not doing well. So maybe Snyder is trash, but so is the whole staff of Post sports columnists.
I totally agree, Kaz.
As would I, but it's not limted to the Post. It happens across the board...They believe that kind of reporting sells more papers.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:47 am
by KazooSkinsFan
DEHog wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:I totally agree, Kaz.
As would I, but it's not limted to the Post. It happens across the board...They believe that kind of reporting sells more papers.
Maybe. Then again maybe it's a factor in the Post's ever declining circulation. Obviously they are doing something wrong. I'm not claiming I proved Skin hit jobs in particular are the issue, I didn't. My point is they are obviously not doing something right, could their trying to out do ESPN with pathetically biased attacks on the the home team be part of the reason? And I disagree with that winning will turn them around. I've been in DC many years and the Post columnists always sucked.
Newspapers are declining nationally. They all point to the Internet and no doubt that is a factor. But I think they are far to willing to write off the affect their overt biases and horrible writing have on it. Their biases span the whole paper, not just sports. I try to read articles and they don't get to the point of the headline that got me to read it sometimes until I flip to the second half of the article. Articles on the Internet (at least the sites I read) get to the point and expand on it. Newspapers go into all sorts of irrelevant background before finally meandering to the point which isn't well supported even then.
To me, newspapers overwhelmingly suck and my own view is horrible articles like this Boswell hit piece are a PERFECT example why the Internet is crushing them. It's not just the immediate 24/7 access, they are writing it off as inevitable and maybe it is, but they are certainly expediting it. I get the WSJ and the local News Observer and I'm seriously considering cutting down to the WSJ.
Anyway, the last Jenkins article I will ever read or will read was Jenkins telling Spagnulo to run away from the Skins while he was interviewing with Danny. Wise is just a boob. They never blame the players who have issues, like Arrington who made serious integrity charges against Danny while he had none himself. Again I defend JC but he should focus on playing better, not who he's competing with. But the drum beat of Post columnists is Skins Suck, Skins Suck, it's all Danny's fault. If guys like Sanchez read this crap from the LOCAL papers, it has to affect them.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:14 pm
by welch
Compared to the New York Daily News and the NY Post, the Washington Post is gentle.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:46 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
welch wrote:Compared to the New York Daily News and the NY Post, the Washington Post is gentle.
Having lived in the NY area many years as well including White Plains, Manhattan and Fairfield County (Connecticut), I agree and disagree. I agree in overall coverage of the teams by the overall papers, but I disagree with regard to the vitriol expressed by the Washington Post columnists. How exactly can you get more vicious then they are? You'd have to show me that.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:15 pm
by welch
Ah, Kaz, I noticed it the minute I moved to NYC (too) many years ago. For a classic example:
The Mets old ownership was too cheap to get hitters in the mid-late 70s. They traded Rusty Staub, the best they had. Tom Seaver had won about 12 games that season, with about a 2.50 ERA and no run support. Seaver said, Look, get some hitting because I can't pitch a shutout every game.
Dick Young, the Daily News mouthpiece for both the Yankees and Mets ownership, immediately wrote a column saying that Tom Seaver wanted a raise because his wife was jealous of the money that a certain ex-Met pitcher was making in Houston.
Pure lie, but Young spent the column trashing Mrs. (Nancy?) Seaver. Tom demanded a trade, saying he would never pitch for the Mets again. Cincinati traded a young, and mediocre, pitcher named Pat Zachry, a fiery second-baseman who couldn't hit, a "sure-thing" fourth-string outfielder (named Henderson?, and a "can't miss" power-hitting minor leaguer (Dan Norman?). The Daily News continued to trash the Seaver family, and to praise the trade: Zachry would be winning Cy Young awards for years, Henderson was a sure MVP, Norman to be the NL HR champ...etc.
Aside from the Times, the NY papers run their sports sections like written soap opera.
For another example, the papers insisted that the Mara family was happy to lose almost every game because Giant Stadium was sold out to season ticket holders. Insisted right up untilk Young and Parcells built a winner. Then bad-mouthed the team for "letting" Parcells go merely because Tuna wanted to be his own GM.
Ripped Peyton Manning from the start, ripped Tiki Barber, ripped the team as gutless when they failed to advance in the playoffs.
Etc...
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:28 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
welch wrote:Ah, Kaz, I noticed it the minute I moved to NYC (too) many years ago. For a classic example:
The Mets old ownership was too cheap to get hitters in the mid-late 70s. They traded Rusty Staub, the best they had. Tom Seaver had won about 12 games that season, with about a 2.50 ERA and no run support. Seaver said, Look, get some hitting because I can't pitch a shutout every game.
Dick Young, the Daily News mouthpiece for both the Yankees and Mets ownership, immediately wrote a column saying that Tom Seaver wanted a raise because his wife was jealous of the money that a certain ex-Met pitcher was making in Houston.
Pure lie, but Young spent the column trashing Mrs. (Nancy?) Seaver. Tom demanded a trade, saying he would never pitch for the Mets again. Cincinati traded a young, and mediocre, pitcher named Pat Zachry, a fiery second-baseman who couldn't hit, a "sure-thing" fourth-string outfielder (named Henderson?, and a "can't miss" power-hitting minor leaguer (Dan Norman?). The Daily News continued to trash the Seaver family, and to praise the trade: Zachry would be winning Cy Young awards for years, Henderson was a sure MVP, Norman to be the NL HR champ...etc.
Aside from the Times, the NY papers run their sports sections like written soap opera.
For another example, the papers insisted that the Mara family was happy to lose almost every game because Giant Stadium was sold out to season ticket holders. Insisted right up untilk Young and Parcells built a winner. Then bad-mouthed the team for "letting" Parcells go merely because Tuna wanted to be his own GM.
Ripped Peyton Manning from the start, ripped Tiki Barber, ripped the team as gutless when they failed to advance in the playoffs.
Etc...
I remember Rusty well since I grew up a Tiger fan, but his time in NY was before mine. You mean they ripped Eli, not Peyton right? They've certainly had their time blasting Steinbrenner too. I agree with you that the NY media is so overwhelming, I'd rather deal across the board with the DC Sports Media and the Washington Post.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:57 pm
by thedcnative
I really hope Campbell takes this whole experience, plays with a chip on his shoulder, and really rises to the occasion. He knows his job isn't set in stone. Now, he's gotta prove to management that he is worth keeping around.
In response to the Post columnists, I think they mirror my frustration with the team and the way it's run. I know I'm getting pretty sick and tired of watching mediocre football year in and year out. I mean, you can't expect them to be wine and roses when we're finishing at or close to the bottom of the barrel every year. This team used to be one of the most feared in the National Football League. Hell, we don't even have a great special teams corps anymore and that IS Redskins football.
Point being this: Campbell, though I support him, knows he is in jeopardy of losing his job. If he has another lack luster season, I will put good money on him being traded to another ball club. If he wants to stay in Washington, he's going to have to play extremely well.
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:45 pm
by VetSkinsFan
Well, Sanchez is with the Jets, and we still have our 3 from the previous season. If JC's upset, maybe he needs to put out to the level that he was drafted and he won't have a problem.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:23 am
by redskingush
Lets give Colt the reins!!!
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:04 am
by SkinsJock
I am very hopeful that Campbell plays much better than he did last year. I also am very hopeful that a lot of things are
much better with the Redskins' offense that we all saw last year.
Lets face it, we need:
Campbell to be
much better.
Zorn to have a
much better season as the HC.
Zorn and the offensive coordinator to have a
much better season as offensive game planners.
The offensive line to have a
much better season in protecting the passer.
The offensive line to be able to play together
much better than they did last season.
The receivers (as a group) to have a
much better season that they did last year.
Mind you
all of those things need to happen, not just most of them - we were not even a good offense last season and we need to be
much better.
Actually the only part of our offense that does not need to be much better than last year is the running game - even so, Portis still needs the line to be blocking effectively for him for 16 regular season games
I am a little mystified as to why some feel that Campbell might be playing with something to prove OR that he will be playing with "a chip on his shoulder ..." this coming season. If a QB in the NFL is not playing with something to prove and the proverbial "chip on his shoulder", then he is probably not a very competitive QB
I must admit that I think Campbell is a good QB and that I hope he has a much better season and we decide to sign him up with a long term contract - BUT, that being said, he's still not going to be a very good QB and we will need a future great QB really soon. Hopefully we'll keep Campbell to play behind this offensive line
so that the new guy does not pay the price that is going to happen here because these bozos decided not to start addressing our offensive line issues in this draft. I surely hope that all the guys we have as offensive linemen have a spectacular year because I have a feeling we are going to need it.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:05 am
by VetSkinsFan
If Colt outplays JC in the pre-season, then I'm all for it. I expect to see some Colt with the 1st stringers this year. It certainly would appease the masses and give Colt a chance to showcase is Timmy Chang failure skills.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:52 am
by KazooSkinsFan
VetSkinsFan wrote:If Colt outplays JC in the pre-season, then I'm all for it. I expect to see some Colt with the 1st stringers this year. It certainly would appease the masses and give Colt a chance to showcase is Timmy Chang failure skills.
I agree Vet. When the coaches start asking why Colt isn't playing rather then fans on a message board, then I'll start to have a completely different opinion of considering him as our starter.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:58 am
by PulpExposure
KazooSkinsFan wrote:VetSkinsFan wrote:If Colt outplays JC in the pre-season, then I'm all for it. I expect to see some Colt with the 1st stringers this year. It certainly would appease the masses and give Colt a chance to showcase is Timmy Chang failure skills.
I agree Vet. When the coaches start asking why Colt isn't playing rather then fans on a message board, then I'll start to have a completely different opinion of considering him as our starter.
Clearly, there's a grand conspiracy by the coaches to keep Colt on the bench. Because they surely would rather have less wins and start a subpar quarterback.