Somali pirates vow retaliation after captain freed

[Countertrey]

Ahhh... you know me, RIC. Trust the UN for nothing. If there is a way to water it down, the UN will figure it out.

[Redskin in Canada]

Ahhh... you know me, RIC. Trust the UN for nothing. If there is a way to water it down, the UN will figure it out.

In the words of some of the most respected US diplomats:

"If the UN did not exist, we would have to re-invent it."

When you arrive at the realisation that the US alone cannot solve about any single problem in the World because it invariably needs the cooperation of others, you will realise that there is a limited role for unilateralism but there is another much larger role for multilateralism.

The UN is far from perfect. But it is an essential instrument of foreign policy for cooperation.

If I wanted to be sarcastic or ironic, I would have mocked any of the "suggestions" made by some above in the thread for the US to "solve" maritime piracy issues. Trust me, if the US or any other country alone could have sorted it out, it would have done it already.

Easy cheap shot to mock the UN though (even if the US is one of the most influential members). I know the UN system very well. I know that every country places some of its best people to work there. It is a privilege to work there just to learn from others. No University around the world can prepare anybody as well as practice in the UN does. But I digress ...

[Countertrey]

I am but a poor, old soldier, RIC.

Frankly, I could not care less what the UN decides about this... as long as they don't attempt to usurp our right to kill pirates.

[Redskin in Canada]

... as long as they don't attempt to usurp our right to kill pirates.

How could the UN do that?

The rules of engagement for US ships are established by the US Navy and the Government of the US!!!

You might be surprised to hear that when US Navy ships capture pirates, they simply disarm them and set them ... free and safe back to their home ports.

Those are their orders in case you want to know.

Weird eh?

[Countertrey]

You might be surprised to hear that when US Navy ships capture pirates, they simply disarm them and set them ... free and safe back to their home ports.

Those are their orders in case you want to know.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you know that's not quite accurate. It would be more accurate to say that their orders provide that as an option. US military orders, more correctly called operation orders, generally tell what the mission is, and provide a general concept, but not how to do it. That is left to the commanders, with each subordinate commander adding greater levels of detail, guided by the situation, capabilities of adjacent and supporting units, resources availible and the ROE.

Response to confrontations are guided, as you know, by the ROE... which provide the flexibility to respond appropriately to the situation. That is why the US Navy has engaged numerous pirates by fire, including the idiots who fired on the Nicholas, and arrested numerous others who have been turned over to Kenyan (and I have heard, Seychelles) authorities for criminal disposition. The Kenyans are trying and convicting pirates. You can bet that the thugs currently held in the Nichols brig are not going to be patted on their heads and sent on their way from the deck of the Nicholas. The ROE permit hostile engagement as long as civilians are not placed at risk.

In the case of pirates who offer no resistance, surrender, take no hostile action towards commercial shipping or naval forces, well, disarming them makes just as much sense. They can do no harm if they have no weapons.

[Redskin in Canada]

In the case of pirates who offer no resistance, surrender, take no hostile action towards commercial shipping or naval forces, well, disarming them makes just as much sense. They can do no harm if they have no weapons.

If a pirate is stupid enough to resist arrest by force, he deserves to be blown out of the water not only because he is a a pirate but because he is STUPID.

Pirates know the drill. They surrender. They are disarmed. They are sent back home.

I personally know first hand of one incident in which fuel and engine repair was provied by one of our navy ships so that they could make it safe and sound back to port.

Not as simple as using a multi-million dollar Navy vessel against a ragged bunch of pirates in fast launches who hit and miss on several instances. This is a problem in which throwing money and resources by the US or any other single country at it does not necessarily solve the root cause of piracy.

[KazooSkinsFan]

This is a problem in which throwing money and resources by the US or any other single country at it does not necessarily solve the root cause of piracy.

And the UN is going to solve the root cause of piracy in Somalia? Now that's funny. So over the last 10 years, what would you point to off the top of your head as the three most important specific UN accomplishments over the last 10 years? I'm a business guy. What am I getting for the money and a base of operations in the US with immunity we're providing to our enemies?

[Countertrey]

If a pirate is stupid enough to resist arrest by force, he deserves to be blown out of the water not only because he is a a pirate but because he is STUPID.

The reality is, there are plenty of "stupid" pirates... who HAVE attacked armed naval vessels.

Personally, I believe that most pirates deserve to be made candidates for Darwin Awards... but, that's just me.

I think that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison have already written the playbook to deal with this.

[Redskin in Canada]

The reality is, there are plenty of "stupid" pirates... who HAVE attacked armed naval vessels.

There WERE. Those are not a problem already. Those were the easy problems to solve. We are not talking about those, I think.

[Redskin in Canada]

I'm a business guy. What am I getting for the money and a base of operations in the US with immunity we're providing to our enemies?

Your enemies? People should stick to what they know. You seem to be a good businessman Kaz. Keep at it.

[Countertrey]

The reality is, there are plenty of "stupid" pirates... who HAVE attacked armed naval vessels.

There WERE. Those are not a problem already. Those were the easy problems to solve. We are not talking about those, I think.

I stand corrected!

[KazooSkinsFan]

I'm a business guy. What am I getting for the money and a base of operations in the US with immunity we're providing to our enemies?

Your enemies? People should stick to what they know. You seem to be a good businessman Kaz. Keep at it.

What a sad, intellectually lazy post. And if the UN weren't such an at best useless organization, my question would have been a softball you'd be glad to hit out of the park. But it isn't. All the UN does is what you talk about, "process." Multi-lateralism, I asked you the question you don't want to answer, what does it "accomplish." Knowing the answer is nothing, rather then admit that you chose to insult me. Lazy, just lazy. Ironically you insult me with the issue at hand. As a business guy I'm results focused. As a liberal you're process focused. And you find that so distasteful, you want results, how barbaric. See your post to see that attitude.

[langleyparkjoe]

Sooooo... the pirates are bad people, but how can you not like Johnny Depp in his role??? I think he's awesome and I'm looking forward to the fourth movie coming out.

Too much tension amongst Redskins fans, had to break it down a tad bit.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Sooooo... the pirates are bad people, but how can you not like Johnny Depp in his role??? I think he's awesome and I'm looking forward to the fourth movie coming out.

Too much tension amongst Redskins fans, had to break it down a tad bit.

Depp is a good pirate. But there's no tension RiC is just hiding because I called his bluff. He likes to say the US can't solve piracy unilaterally while ducking that the UN has no solution for Somalia either. Then I asked him the atomic bomb question, what does the UN accomplish anywhere? He was prepared for leadership, multi-lateralism, sitting across the table from your adversaries or any other process question. But what has it "accomplished?" He ran away and hid because despite his blind love for the organization, he drew a blank. BTW, you can see his feet below the curtains over there...

[langleyparkjoe]

Sooooo... the pirates are bad people, but how can you not like Johnny Depp in his role??? I think he's awesome and I'm looking forward to the fourth movie coming out.

Too much tension amongst Redskins fans, had to break it down a tad bit.

Depp is a good pirate. But there's no tension RiC is just hiding because I called his bluff. He likes to say the US can't solve piracy unilaterally while ducking that the UN has no solution for Somalia either. Then I asked him the atomic bomb question, what does the UN accomplish anywhere? He was prepared for leadership, multi-lateralism, sitting across the table from your adversaries or any other process question. But what has it "accomplished?" He ran away and hid because despite his blind love for the organization, he drew a blank. BTW, you can see his feet below the curtains over there...

I always get the UN and the Justice League confused at times Kazo!

[KazooSkinsFan]

I just want to note that (due to the strategic importance of transoceanic shipping), these companies, and their conveyances, are considered military assets. They are, in fact, are calculated into the equation of US military shipping capacity. That implies that there is a national security interest in maintaining the safety and availibility of these assets. Just another bone to chew on.

Hmm. This begs the question, though. I don't doubt that the military does do this; I'm pointing out that there's a problem with doing so and am asking why.

Hi Irn-Bru, I'd been meaning to get back to this one, but hadn't had a chance. Sorry for going back, but it is a good question you ask. Also, I love seeing the phrase "begging the question" used correctly, well done!

It was begging the question, and it was an interesting question. We agree that the government shouldn't be involved in foreign markets. Companies should just work with them directly and if they don't like the deal, they can stay out of that country's market. We should open our markets to all foreign competitors as long as they follow our laws just like our own companies would need to do. Obviously we would make changes to those laws from what they are now as well, but that's a topic for another discussion. For now we just leave it that the laws should not discriminate domestic versus foreign and leave it at that.

But I do believe strongly we should take some action on the high seas to protect our shipping interest. I am libertarian, but not an anarchist. The difference to me is that an anarchist just opposes government. I want to maximize liberty. So where I want government to intervene, it needs to clear two hurdles:

1) Can only government effectively do it?
2) Does having government do it increase my liberty?

The answers to the questions must both clearly be "yes." Some examples of this that I believe clear this hurdle are roads, police, civil and criminal courts, the military and mediating access to limited resources, like water and recognizing land ownership. Again obviously I would change the way those operate, but again that's for another discussion. Let's just leave now that I consider those valid functions of government, not validating what our government does regarding those.

I see protecting our economic blood on the high seas as also easily clearing those hurdles. Private companies cannot realistically create an army capable of combating piracy. And I would be significantly adversely affected if piracy were allowed to go unmitigated.

W/o government protecting our shipping piracy would become a far greater problem then it is to the point of being economically crippling. I don't see how it's any different then the absurdity failing to recognize that if government could not build roads then travel would virtually non existent. You can't build a highway with private means w/out government to compel acquiring the land to go from point a to point b w/o endless private tolls and meandering road designs. Shipping is critical to the economy and w/o government to combat it it's far too easy and profitable to control and impractical for private citizens and companies to combat.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I always get the UN and the Justice League confused at times Kazo!

Well that's understandable. They both live in fantasy worlds. But the difference is the Justice League is fighting for good...

[langleyparkjoe]

I always get the UN and the Justice League confused at times Kazo!

Well that's understandable. They both live in fantasy worlds. But the difference is the Justice League is fighting for good...

Touche!

[Redskin in Canada]

What a sad, intellectually lazy post.

You are ABSOLUTELY right. I have no energy or patience whatsoever to try to educate, inform or remove the prejudices from an uneducated, uninformed, ignorant and prejudiced individual. These are "qualities" that often come together as a bunch.

If any of your arguments had any merit whatsoever, it would be no problem to campaign in support of a withdrawal by the US from the entire UN system and the withdrawal of any UN offices from US ground. Try it. See how far that takes you even among any remotely informed US experts in foreign affairs.

Stay to your graphic design business Kaz. That is what you seem to know something about. You are reaching way beyond your competence on a maritime piracy topic that you know little if anything at all about.

[KazooSkinsFan]

What a sad, intellectually lazy post.

You are ABSOLUTELY right. I have no energy or patience whatsoever to try to educate, inform or remove the prejudices from an uneducated, uninformed, ignorant and prejudiced individual

See Langley, I told you his toes were peeking out from underneath that curtain over there. As for you RiC, you can hide behind a veil of shineola, but all I asked you was a simple question.

So over the last 10 years, what would you point to off the top of your head as the three most important specific UN accomplishments over the last 10 years?

What I emphasized is I want accomplishments not process. If you can't answer the question with content, don't answer it with nonsense either which is all you're doing. You lecture the world on the UN and all the glory it provides and bring it up at every chance you get, and I asked you for a list "off the top of your head." This should be a piece of cake.

[langleyparkjoe]

I think its pretty safe to say without U.S.A., the UN is just a group of countries calling our president for help... I think we can ALL agree with that?.. even you two (Kazo and RIC)

[KazooSkinsFan]

I think its pretty safe to say without U.S.A., the UN is just a group of countries calling our president for help... I think we can ALL agree with that?.. even you two (Kazo and RIC)

No argument there...

[Redskin in Canada]

Recent developments on this topic:

Russian forces have freed the crew of a Russian oil tanker seized by Somali pirates off the coast of Yemen, in a dramatic rescue operation.

Somali Pirate Court Sought by UN Security Council in Measure

UN Security Council supports Russian anti-pirate plan

[langleyparkjoe]

This whole pirate thing is really trippin me out because as a kid growing up pirates were more like a fantasy story than actually being true. Obviously as I got older I found out there are real pirates out there. Crazy man.. but in this world, the devil's hands are very busy so nothing surprises me anymore.. that alone is horrible

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Its crazy stuff Kilmer, very sad too

Sure, it's crazy, but, we all know this could all be over with in a day, if we send in an expert:



And he could end it with one hand in his pocket.