WHAT IF COLT ......

[DEHog]

On a sad note, CB just lost his record for most touchdowns thrown in college football history.

You guys really think Colt can play in the NFL???

[Trample the Elderly]

I don't think CB can take the kind of punishment that JC takes every game. I don't think anyone can. Look at poor Brunnell. He looked like Forrest Gump as a child when he left. He he he. He was hobbling along with those braces, the bionic man. HA!
We should keep what we have and draft for what we need. We've drafted enough QB and not enough OTs or OGs.

[MDSKINSFAN]

actually a good picture cuz thats what colt and todd need to be doing.....watching jc17

Are you crazy? They all need to be watching Todd Collins! He led this team to the playoffs. He is a real veteran with real experience and he rules. We should have started him all along, we'd have won 12 games with him as QB!

Are you serious? He looked terrible in the pre season. And you think our offensive line looked terrible with JC as QB, god they wouldve looked like the worst O-line ever if he was playing. He cant move and JC used his mobility more than a couple times this year to escape a sack. Also, if we started Collins what would be the plan? Start him for 2 years until he retires? Then what? Hope we draft a franchise guy while hes playing? Not likely. It wouldnt be a good move for this franchise to start this guy and then just have to tear up the team two years later for a new QB

[SkinsJock]

Collins was only here this year to provide experience as our back-up - IMO Zorn was hoping he would never have to play BUT he also was not going to hurt Brennan's development by rushing him into the game too quickly. If Zorn has shown any tendencies it is to play the guys with experience, almost to a fault.

I hope that this off-season both Campbell and Brennan will get together with Zorn and Zorn can make his mind up who gives the team the best chance at QB.

I am sure the discussions on who is going to be the QB to replace Collins are going to be very interesting - I would be surprised if they added another young QB to the mix - just does not seem like Zorn or this FO's MO - .

[Trample the Elderly]

I don't think it really matters who the quarterback is. We should build an offense around a running game. We're half way there already. All we need is some youth and to develop a deep threat.

I'd like to have a power running back like Jacobs or Barber. I think Portis, Betts, and Cartwright are too small. Betts looks like he's beefed up but he's not that big. Could we get some picks for Betts. I'll bet we can. He's as good as Portis and he's not taken as much punishment either. Not a tear shed if we keep him though.

Anyway I think we would be best served to have an insert a pro QB type of offensive. Look at Tennesses's run game. Come on Kerry Collins? All of our QBs are at that level at least with ability. If it's experince than JC and TC both have that kind of talent. Todd Collins is younger than Kerry Collins. So pay him and keep him there.

Could Todd Collins be a a Charlie Batch? I don't think so. Can he be a Kerry Collins? There's no doubt in my mind. You guys want to talk about old. Look at ole Kerry's grey butt out there. It doesn't matter. Their lines dictate to other teams what they want to do.

[SkinsJock]

There are a lot of RB's that are very good but only a few that are great - Jacobs is a very good RB but he's not a great RB like Portis - Jacobs is benefitting from not only a very good line but they also have 2 other backs there that really give them a different look and offer a lot of different things that they can do - Eli is not that good and turns the ball over way too much but with that good a running game he does not have to throw too much which is a good thing because he is not a good passing QB.

Portis and everybody will greatly benefit from a line that can continue to be effective in the latter part of the game as well as the late months in the season when the running game becomes so important.

I'm not that sure we could get very much for Betts and I'm not sure what happened with him this year - his mediocre performance might also have been because we were not scoring very well and were forced to go to a passing game rather than utilizing both backs better.

I doubt that Zorn is going to change his game planning too much - he seems to want to base everything around a sound running game but even with Portis leading the league in the early part of the season we were justy not very good at scoring points. The line did not help but I think Campbell is just not willing to let his wideouts make plays for him and he seem to me anyway to be too hesitant.



I might be spoiled but I would like a QB with Sonny or Billy Kilmer's leadership - while Sonny had a great arm they both were very heady and inspirational leaders on the field and Campbell looks like he is just a good QB.

[crazyhorse1]

I don't think it really matters who the quarterback is. We should build an offense around a running game. We're half way there already. All we need is some youth and to develop a deep threat.

I'd like to have a power running back like Jacobs or Barber. I think Portis, Betts, and Cartwright are too small. Betts looks like he's beefed up but he's not that big. Could we get some picks for Betts. I'll bet we can. He's as good as Portis and he's not taken as much punishment either. Not a tear shed if we keep him though.

Anyway I think we would be best served to have an insert a pro QB type of offensive. Look at Tennesses's run game. Come on Kerry Collins? All of our QBs are at that level at least with ability. If it's experince than JC and TC both have that kind of talent. Todd Collins is younger than Kerry Collins. So pay him and keep him there.

Could Todd Collins be a a Charlie Batch? I don't think so. Can he be a Kerry Collins? There's no doubt in my mind. You guys want to talk about old. Look at ole Kerry's grey butt out there. It doesn't matter. Their lines dictate to other teams what they want to do.

No offense, but the running game you describe would require a deep threat WR, a battering ram tougher than Portis, and at least four new O linemen and a better blocking TE.

In other words we're half way to a running game because he have ARE, Campbell, Sellers, and Samuels. Oh, wait. ARE and Campbell will obviously do zip for the running game, which means we are half way to a running game because we're solid at 2 of 11 positions with zip for backups.

No problem.

[Californiaskin]

colt brennen much like stephon heyer is a flyer who really wont ever help us reach the championship..........Todd Collins much like pete kendall is a ha been....campbell is the best qb on the roster we need to upgrade our line w #13 overall pick............

oh yeah and all though much respect is due to you judah especially since the sweet pics from the 9r game, Huntington beach is for pansy tourists in board shorts. Everyone knows the best waves are in NorCal!

[markshark84]

colt brennen much like stephon heyer is a flyer who really wont ever help us reach the championship..........Todd Collins much like pete kendall is a ha been....campbell is the best qb on the roster we need to upgrade our line w #13 overall pick............

oh yeah and all though much respect is due to you judah especially since the sweet pics from the 9r game, Huntington beach is for pansy tourists in board shorts. Everyone knows the best waves are in NorCal!

I would switch out JC and Colt in your initial statement. JC has accomplished nothing in four years with this team. We have been to the playoffs two of his four years here and he added nothing to our getting there.

I would rather take a chance on Colt than have "more of the same" from JC.

[Skinsfan55]

The point is, we probably wouldn't get "more of the same" because we have a brilliant QB coach as our head coach and next season will be Campbell's first season with the same system.

Jason Campbell wasn't a franchise type QB this season, but look at what he did do:

62.3% completions, 13 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, 3,245 passing yards. He also didn't fumble all season.

JC has improved each season and with improved play from him, his receiving corps and the offensive line we'll see even more improvement.

Even if going with Jason was "more of the same" then we'd have a pretty reliable QB who takes care of the ball... compared to an unknown quantity like Brennan. It'd be a pretty lousy gamble.

[DEHog]

The point is, we probably wouldn't get "more of the same" because we have a brilliant QB coach as our head coach and next season will be Campbell's first season with the same system.

Jason Campbell wasn't a franchise type QB this season, but look at what he did do:

62.3% completions, 13 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, 3,245 passing yards. He also didn't fumble all season.

JC has improved each season and with improved play from him, his receiving corps and the offensive line we'll see even more improvement.

Even if going with Jason was "more of the same" then we'd have a pretty reliable QB who takes care of the ball... compared to an unknown quantity like Brennan. It'd be a pretty lousy gamble.

While I agree Jason (of the three) gives us the back chance to win.

I wouldn't brag about his stats 3200 is nothing in today's pass happy NFL
And he did fumble 7 times...The best thing going for him is he will be playing in the same sytem with the sme coaches

[Hoss]

well, except for the 7 fumbles, he didn't fumble all season.

[markshark84]

The point is, we probably wouldn't get "more of the same" because we have a brilliant QB coach as our head coach and next season will be Campbell's first season with the same system.

Jason Campbell wasn't a franchise type QB this season, but look at what he did do:

62.3% completions, 13 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, 3,245 passing yards. He also didn't fumble all season.

JC has improved each season and with improved play from him, his receiving corps and the offensive line we'll see even more improvement.

Even if going with Jason was "more of the same" then we'd have a pretty reliable QB who takes care of the ball... compared to an unknown quantity like Brennan. It'd be a pretty lousy gamble.

Incorrect. He had two years under Gibbs. This is his second year in the WCO offense -- he played in the WCO his senior year at Auburn. Maybe you don't count the Gibbs years because it was TC that did anything. He also did fumble this year --- most recently against Philly --- but it was recovered by our line.

I will hold you to that "brillant" Zorn comment. FYI. Next season, when JC delivers more of the same, I will remind you of this so that will eliminate at least one excuse all the apologists will use next year since JC excuses seem to run wild in these parts.

If you would like more of the same that is fine, because that is what you are going to get. Personally, I would like to get more than 16.6 points per game next year. But hey, if 16.6 ppg game is your standard, fine. But I am a person who doesn't accept mediocrity (or in this case below average performance). Personally, I would prefer to have a little change in our offense instead of a QB that has 35 TDs in 36 games and an average of 18.4 points per game over his career.

I don't see why you wouldn't "take a gamble" to replace a guy that has accomplished nothing in washington besides increasing his completion percentage by making a living out of 5 yard dump offs ---- hey, maybe that was one of the reasons we never seemed to get in the end zone ---- but nooooo, it must have been because our receivers couldn't get down field . I'd take that chance since we really wouldn't be loosing very much....

[Trample the Elderly]

I don't think it really matters who the quarterback is. We should build an offense around a running game. We're half way there already. All we need is some youth and to develop a deep threat.

I'd like to have a power running back like Jacobs or Barber. I think Portis, Betts, and Cartwright are too small. Betts looks like he's beefed up but he's not that big. Could we get some picks for Betts. I'll bet we can. He's as good as Portis and he's not taken as much punishment either. Not a tear shed if we keep him though.

Anyway I think we would be best served to have an insert a pro QB type of offensive. Look at Tennesses's run game. Come on Kerry Collins? All of our QBs are at that level at least with ability. If it's experince than JC and TC both have that kind of talent. Todd Collins is younger than Kerry Collins. So pay him and keep him there.

Could Todd Collins be a a Charlie Batch? I don't think so. Can he be a Kerry Collins? There's no doubt in my mind. You guys want to talk about old. Look at ole Kerry's grey butt out there. It doesn't matter. Their lines dictate to other teams what they want to do.

No offense, but the running game you describe would require a deep threat WR, a battering ram tougher than Portis, and at least four new O linemen and a better blocking TE.

In other words we're half way to a running game because he have ARE, Campbell, Sellers, and Samuels. Oh, wait. ARE and Campbell will obviously do zip for the running game, which means we are half way to a running game because we're solid at 2 of 11 positions with zip for backups.

No problem.

Yeah that's exactly what I'm describing. Since when did Santana Moss stop being a deep threat? Granted he's stopped catching the deep balls but he's still a threat. I want a battering ram tougher than Portis (Mister I didn't make any mistakes) and isn't prone to FUMBLING too! We've got some new O-line men that we didn't play (?) and will pick up one or two in free agency and the draft. I could care less about Campbell but I want ARE gone. He's too small and hasn't produced.

[Skinsfan55]

Sorry, I saw on ESPN that Campbell wasn't credited with a fumble under "rushing statistics" (the only place on ESPN where it's recorded as a stat.)

I guess to get credit for a fumble there he'd have to have been attempting a run past the LOS. NFL.com and Yahoo have him with the correct total of 7 fumbles.

My bad.

[Skinsfan55]

Incorrect. He had two years under Gibbs. This is his second year in the WCO offense -- he played in the WCO his senior year at Auburn. Maybe you don't count the Gibbs years because it was TC that did anything. He also did fumble this year --- most recently against Philly --- but it was recovered by our line.

Not every incarnation of the West Coast Offense is exactly the same, there's different terminology by coach, probably a different passing tree, different reads, etc. etc. Only the basic theme of the offense (using the pass to set up the run, most routes within 15 yards, running backs receiving more passes etc.) makes it the WCO there's many, many different variations so what Campbell did 4-5 years ago in college isn't that relevant. (Though he may use some of those WCO skills he got in college like quick decision making, throwing blindly to where the WR will be since he had his best season as a pro.)

Campbell was drafted in 2005 and sat the whole 2005 season while watching Brunell in Gibbs' offense. In 2006 Al Saunders was brought aboard and Campbell was exposed to a similar but still different offense with a new coordinator. He struggled in his first NFL action replacing Mark Brunell about halfway through the season.

He showed improvement in his second season with Saunders but was injured with three games to go, Todd Collins who's played in Saunders' offense for the last 5 years replaced him and played extremely well. We made the playoffs.

So he was in the Air Coryell offense for a little over one healthy season and now he's back in the WCO after a 4 year absence.

I will hold you to that "brillant" Zorn comment. FYI. Next season, when JC delivers more of the same, I will remind you of this so that will eliminate at least one excuse all the apologists will use next year since JC excuses seem to run wild in these parts.

Hold me to it, among NFL QB's Matt Hasselbeck has about average talent I suppose, (great accuracy though) but he and Zorn joined the Seahawks at the same time. For a while there he was (maybe will be again) a top NFL quarterback and his tutor was Jim Zorn. He also played a part in coaching Seneca Wallace into a decent NFL backup.

If you would like more of the same that is fine, because that is what you are going to get. Personally, I would like to get more than 16.6 points per game next year. But hey, if 16.6 ppg game is your standard, fine. But I am a person who doesn't accept mediocrity (or in this case below average performance). Personally, I would prefer to have a little change in our offense instead of a QB that has 35 TDs in 36 games and an average of 18.4 points per game over his career.

Points per game to judge a QB is as antiquated as using wins and losses to determine a pitcher's value in baseball. There's just too many factors.

Let's start with offensive line play:

Campbell was sacked 38 times and he lost both his tackles for a time. All the guys on the line are wearing down. Look at the beginning of the season, Jason was playing great. Now look at the second half, when all the linemen started getting injured, and showing their age. Not so good. That's probably just a coincidence though.

What about his receivers:

Well, Santana Moss is a deep threat, has several factors going against him.

1) He's a bit undersized for the WCO
2) He's the only receiver worth paying attention to

ARE is not very good, and he's also undersized (I wonder if Brandon Lloyd had behaved and stayed with the team if he'd have seen an increased role on the team with Zorn, or if we'd been able to sign D.J. Hackett we'd been able to win more games.)

Thomas and Kelly are rookies and have a steep learning curve.

James Thrash sucks.

As for ey and Davis, ey caught a decent amount of balls but as the only real red zone weapon was stifled constantly despite his number being called on numerous occasions (according to his blog.) Davis is also a rookie with a steep learning curve to the WCO but his number was called a few times (according to Zorn) but again, as another big target he was covered well also.

I don't see why you wouldn't "take a gamble" to replace a guy that has accomplished nothing in washington besides increasing his completion percentage by making a living out of 5 yard dump offs ---- hey, maybe that was one of the reasons we never seemed to get in the end zone ---- but nooooo, it must have been because our receivers couldn't get down field . I'd take that chance since we really wouldn't be loosing very much....

You'd be taking a known quantity like Jason Campbell who's still young and improving and replacing him with Colt Brennan who comes with serious questions about his arm strength. (Granted, Scouts Inc. scored him highly in the draft for throwing excellent slants, in routes and posts which are keys to the WCO.) But he's a guy who lacks size, has a history of fumble problems, and who even has some possible character issues (though, I tend to chalk it up to being young and stupid, if anything indeed happened.)

It would be just incredible if Colt Brennan was able to duplicate Jason Campbell's 2008 production. You know that's the truth, and the hell of it is, that if he did perform exactly as well as Campbell did this season people would be calling him a hero.

People are just using Campbell as a scapegoat for our lack of wins, when I think it's more due to Joe Gibbs (both on the field and as de facto GM), and Dan Snyder (for hiring him in the first place, then for blowing up the coaching staff.)

(Also, FWIW Brennan is not even that much younger than Campbell.)

[HEROHAMO]

On a sad note, CB just lost his record for most touchdowns thrown in college football history.

You guys really think Colt can play in the NFL???

If given a real shot , yes. Under Zorns guidance I think he can become a very successful QB.

[SkinsFreak]

First, I've been away for a week or so, so I haven't been able to follow the discussion, although I have gone back and read this entire thread.

I'm baffled by a few things. For the Collins supporters, to think he was the SOLE reason why the Redskins won four games is ludicrous. This is a team sport and anyone with half a brain saw that other players were just as instrumental, if not more, deserving of credit for those wins.

Collins had ONE, and only ONE advantage over Campbell. He had a broader understanding of Saunders complex system. That's it. Many of the players, not just Jason, struggled with grasping the system. For example, receivers were running incorrect routes quite often. Saunders offense was a numbered based system, a system most of our offensive players were not familiar with.

So, most here have conceded that Collins did have that one advantage, he knew the system because he'd been playing in it for years.

But as far as QB skills go, I'd just love to hear anyone claim that Collins has superior skills. And for the record, it has nothing to do with age. Arm strength, accuracy, ball velocity, speed, scrambling abilities... etc. JC trumps Collins in every category. And don't even think to come with a completion percentage stat for those four games, receivers drop balls all the time, and the Skins, average at best, receivers struggled quite a bit last year, evident by the fact the Skins thought it was paramount to draft three receivers, with their first 3 picks, in the subsequent draft.

I'm just curious. During Collins 14 year career, how many of his former and current coaches and offensive coordinators have deemed him worthy of a starting caliber QB in this league? And that includes Saunders, himself. Yes, Todd started a few games for Buffalo back in the mid 90's, but they had to start him simply for a lack of QB's on the roaster at the time and the fact they drafted Collins in the second round. But prior to the four games he started for the Redskins, due to an injury to JC, Todd didn't start... for any team, in over ten years. Why? He simply doesn't have the skills worthy of being a starter in this league. That's not an opinion, it's a fact supported by Todd's former coaches and coordinators conclusions and actions.

***********************************************************

We all know JLC is an extremely poor source for factual news regarding this team. We've seen it time and again, that he searches far and wide for anything to bash the team over. But his blog that PulpExposure posted back on page two speaks volumes. It also offers a direct quote from a teammate regarding JC's leadership that even I, a JC supporter, didn't even recognize...

It's Jason Campbell's Team

This is shaping up to be one of those weeks in which we end up talking a ton about the quarterback even though there are a bevy of more pressing issues.

Many of Jason Campbell's teammates are being asked about his leadership skills, whether he has "it" - you know, that magic intangible that determines whether a dude turns out like John Elway or Gary Hogeboom. Even in private chats with players, I haven't heard anyone doubt Campbell's ability to perform or command a huddle or lead a team.

"It's the leadership in practice and leadership in the huddle," Antwaan Randle El said. "He does what you would expect out of your quarterback. Most quarterbacks do what people expect them to do as a quarterback. But some have that extra edge like Jason has, in terms of being able to get out of the pocket and making plays. That extra edge in terms of when things are down keeping everybody upbeat and those things, and just making sure we're going in the right direction.

"And I think that's what he's doing. Again, it's not all on him, but the perception is always going to be that he's the lightning rod, and the quarterback will be attacked more than anybody."

If anybody in that locker room truly believed that Todd Collins gives this team a better chance at winning, I'd report it. But this is seen from within as Campbell's team, with the noise coming from outside.

The last high lighted quote from JLC is 1000% accurate. JLC would just love to stir up a QB controversy. As Pulp said, JLC would take one quote from the towel boy and make headlines with it. It would read... "The entire Redskins organization wants Todd!"

And with regard to all our QB's, I've made this point several times. None of us have the opportunity to watch these guys competing side-by-side at workouts or at practices. And for the few non-staff members (meaning someone other than players or coaches) that do see these guys every day, have reported that it's "clearly evident why JC is the starter." JC simply looks the best of the three when working out together. I'd just love to hear any fan, that doesn't see these guys in practice, contradict that.

As far as Colt is concerned, I've said many times that I like Colt and would like to see an open QB competition in the offseason. Now, in reality, there's always an open competition... at every position. But at this point, I highly doubt JC will be unseated as the starter going into the 2009 season, and I believe it would be a huge mistake not to give JC that chance. After what JC has been through, with having to learn three systems in four years, experts and analysts around the league would justifiably have a field day ripping the Skins for prematurely benching JC without having given him an opportunity to play for 2 consecutive seasons in the same system.

Zorn knows how to evaluate QB's. He's played the position at a high level for many years and he's subsequently been a QB coach and evaluator for many years as well. Zorn's recent comments offer further insight into his evaluation of the three QB's, including Brennan...

Am I just shamelessly pandering at this point? Probably. But two of the major subjects Jim Zorn covered in today's end-of-season press conference were Jason Campbell's development and the quality of the rookie class. And those two subjects converge in the person of Colt Brennan, rookie quarterback and presumptive backup to Campbell.

There have been commenters on this blog who have advocated elevating Brennan to the starting position, often suggesting that such a move should take place immediately. Those people, according to Zorn's projections today, are in for a bit of a wait.

On if Jason Campbell has improved over the season:
"Yeah, he did that for sure. And then what I'm gonna do is what I did last year. I took some time with him before minicamp started in the classroom, but once the offseason program starts, we'll be able to do some schemework with him.

"Again, his footwork was poor when I got here last year. It got a lot better, and I think everybody would agree with that. It's gonna get a lot better in this offseason because there's things that I'm gonna ask him to do, to work on. But I don't have to be out there every day with him. It won't be a detriment, it won't be a full time exercise for me.

"I want him to continue to work at playing lower. I want to work at being able to have great rhythm at the top of the drop, when he plants that foot coming forward and letting the ball go, I want to improve that. So we're going to work on drills that enhance that. And while he's doing that, Colt Brennan and Todd Collins will be right there taking their reps too. So they're all three gonna be improving; they all three did improve.

"Colt Brennan got a much stronger arm once he got into our program... Now he's gonna have a little setback –he's gonna have that knee taken care of with a scope – and he'll be strong right into our offesason program. He'll have some tremendous leaps of improvement as he gets into our program, but I don't see him unseating Jason. I think he's just gonna continue to excel."

Again, I like Colt and want to see this kid improve and one day get his chance. But as Zorn is saying, I don't believe it will come at the start of the 2009 season. Jason will be the starter, and rightfully so, I'm pretty sure of that. But as I've said, if JC struggles, hopefully Colt will have improved enough to earn the nod.

[SkinsJock]

Good to have the SkinsFreak back - as you all may know, I am one that would like to see a bit more from Campbell and hope that he will continue the progress from 2007. I would agree with Zorn's assessment about both Campbell's progress and Brennan's abilities. I also would agree that Campbell is still the "starting QB" for this team.

I hope that Campbell and Brennan do improve in the coming months but I will be very surprised if Collins is part of the mix.

Let me say this - we will need to see a lot of improvement from Campbell for him to be able to provide the ability to give our offense the opportunity to score more points than we did this year. He will be (and IMO should be) considered the starter BUT I also hope that if he falters in his progress, Zorn will have the gonads to put a QB on the field this season that can give us a better scoring offense - I think that Zorn has 2 minor faults - he is not willing to put much trust in his younger players AND he does not like to make too many changes to what he's decided will work.


I also expect to see a lot of progress from Thomas, Kelly and Davis in the coming months.

[DEHog]

I don't think CB is the awnser and yes this is JC team for 1 more year. How many of you CB supporters actually think that if JC doesn't get it done that the Skins will turn it over to CB I don't see that happening.

[Countertrey]

On a sad note, CB just lost his record for most touchdowns thrown in college football history.

You guys really think Colt can play in the NFL???

If given a real shot , yes. Under Zorns guidance I think he can become a very successful QB.

Of course, you have also been on record as advocating that Lavar be made the starting SAM once again...

[crazyhorse1]

Incorrect. He had two years under Gibbs. This is his second year in the WCO offense -- he played in the WCO his senior year at Auburn. Maybe you don't count the Gibbs years because it was TC that did anything. He also did fumble this year --- most recently against Philly --- but it was recovered by our line.

Not every incarnation of the West Coast Offense is exactly the same, there's different terminology by coach, probably a different passing tree, different reads, etc. etc. Only the basic theme of the offense (using the pass to set up the run, most routes within 15 yards, running backs receiving more passes etc.) makes it the WCO there's many, many different variations so what Campbell did 4-5 years ago in college isn't that relevant. (Though he may use some of those WCO skills he got in college like quick decision making, throwing blindly to where the WR will be since he had his best season as a pro.)

Campbell was drafted in 2005 and sat the whole 2005 season while watching Brunell in Gibbs' offense. In 2006 Al Saunders was brought aboard and Campbell was exposed to a similar but still different offense with a new coordinator. He struggled in his first NFL action replacing Mark Brunell about halfway through the season.

He showed improvement in his second season with Saunders but was injured with three games to go, Todd Collins who's played in Saunders' offense for the last 5 years replaced him and played extremely well. We made the playoffs.

So he was in the Air Coryell offense for a little over one healthy season and now he's back in the WCO after a 4 year absence.

I will hold you to that "brillant" Zorn comment. FYI. Next season, when JC delivers more of the same, I will remind you of this so that will eliminate at least one excuse all the apologists will use next year since JC excuses seem to run wild in these parts.

Hold me to it, among NFL QB's Matt Hasselbeck has about average talent I suppose, (great accuracy though) but he and Zorn joined the Seahawks at the same time. For a while there he was (maybe will be again) a top NFL quarterback and his tutor was Jim Zorn. He also played a part in coaching Seneca Wallace into a decent NFL backup.

If you would like more of the same that is fine, because that is what you are going to get. Personally, I would like to get more than 16.6 points per game next year. But hey, if 16.6 ppg game is your standard, fine. But I am a person who doesn't accept mediocrity (or in this case below average performance). Personally, I would prefer to have a little change in our offense instead of a QB that has 35 TDs in 36 games and an average of 18.4 points per game over his career.

Points per game to judge a QB is as antiquated as using wins and losses to determine a pitcher's value in baseball. There's just too many factors.

Let's start with offensive line play:

Campbell was sacked 38 times and he lost both his tackles for a time. All the guys on the line are wearing down. Look at the beginning of the season, Jason was playing great. Now look at the second half, when all the linemen started getting injured, and showing their age. Not so good. That's probably just a coincidence though.

What about his receivers:

Well, Santana Moss is a deep threat, has several factors going against him.

1) He's a bit undersized for the WCO
2) He's the only receiver worth paying attention to

ARE is not very good, and he's also undersized (I wonder if Brandon Lloyd had behaved and stayed with the team if he'd have seen an increased role on the team with Zorn, or if we'd been able to sign D.J. Hackett we'd been able to win more games.)

Thomas and Kelly are rookies and have a steep learning curve.

James Thrash sucks.

As for ey and Davis, ey caught a decent amount of balls but as the only real red zone weapon was stifled constantly despite his number being called on numerous occasions (according to his blog.) Davis is also a rookie with a steep learning curve to the WCO but his number was called a few times (according to Zorn) but again, as another big target he was covered well also.

I don't see why you wouldn't "take a gamble" to replace a guy that has accomplished nothing in washington besides increasing his completion percentage by making a living out of 5 yard dump offs ---- hey, maybe that was one of the reasons we never seemed to get in the end zone ---- but nooooo, it must have been because our receivers couldn't get down field . I'd take that chance since we really wouldn't be loosing very much....

You'd be taking a known quantity like Jason Campbell who's still young and improving and replacing him with Colt Brennan who comes with serious questions about his arm strength. (Granted, Scouts Inc. scored him highly in the draft for throwing excellent slants, in routes and posts which are keys to the WCO.) But he's a guy who lacks size, has a history of fumble problems, and who even has some possible character issues (though, I tend to chalk it up to being young and stupid, if anything indeed happened.)

It would be just incredible if Colt Brennan was able to duplicate Jason Campbell's 2008 production. You know that's the truth, and the hell of it is, that if he did perform exactly as well as Campbell did this season people would be calling him a hero.

People are just using Campbell as a scapegoat for our lack of wins, when I think it's more due to Joe Gibbs (both on the field and as de facto GM), and Dan Snyder (for hiring him in the first place, then for blowing up the coaching staff.)

(Also, FWIW Brennan is not even that much younger than Campbell.)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't ey the guy who broke Redskin receiving records for TE's this season, finished second in the NFL in TE receptions, led the Skins in receptions for all receivers, constantly drew double coverage, made the Pro Bowl, and became the highest paid Skin on the team this season.

It seems that your remark that he made a "decent" number of receptions doesn't quite cover it. Try to recognize a future HOF'er when you see one. It impresses the guys.

[Skinsfan55]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't ey the guy who broke Redskin receiving records for TE's this season, finished second in the NFL in TE receptions, led the Skins in receptions for all receivers, constantly drew double coverage, made the Pro Bowl, and became the highest paid Skin on the team this season.

It seems that your remark that he made a "decent" number of receptions doesn't quite cover it. Try to recognize a future HOF'er when you see one. It impresses the guys.

1.) There's absolutely no reason to quote the whole post if it's as long as mine was. Just cut the part you wanted to talk about (i.e. ey being decent.)

2.) I love ey, check his blog out all the time, it's great. But ey had to compete with great Redskins tight ends like Clint Didier, Don Warren, Jamie Asher and Steven Alexander.

ey is a damn fine player, but don't try and scold me because I'm not bowing to his majesty.

[PulpExposure]

Try to recognize a future HOF'er when you see one. It impresses the guys.

Uh...I love ey as a player, but he's not even the best TE in the NFC East, let alone in the NFL. No way he's a Hall of Fame TE.

[DEHog]

2.) I love ey, check his blog out all the time, it's great. But ey had to compete with great Redskins tight ends like Clint Didier, Don Warren, Jamie Asher and Steven Alexander.

Asher and Alexander??? How bout Jerry Smith