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Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:31 pm
by aswas71788
I am not going to give up on the Redskins or Zorn. The Redskins are doing far better than anyone would have reasonably predicted with a new head coach, a new offensive scheme (even for the coach) and a quarterback that had limited experience. I hoped but did not really expect the Redskins to make the play-offs this year until they were 6 - 2. I would like to see them make the play-offs but know in my heart that they are not a play-off team. They cannot compete with the play-off teams when it counts.

We all knew that the Redskins had O-line and D-line problems. When the Redskins are doing well, no one criticises, when they are doing bad, it is open season. Nothing has really changes other than the Redskins have had more success than anyone expected.

Jason Taylor being as ineffective as he is Blache's fault. A perennial Pro Bowl player with as many sacs as he has does not just forget this fast. Jason Campbell is exactly what he is and will never be better. He is not the 2nd coming of Sonny or even Theisman. Colt Brennen is not the answer this year either.

Do not forget that this is a building year regardless of the won/loss numbers.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:15 am
by DesertSkin
welch wrote:Ah, predictability! :wink:

Meaning:

- In January, Zorn was a junk-pile, but Gibbs was too harsh and unimaginative so people shouted, "good riddance". However, "everyone" knew that Campbell couldn't play QB in the "west coast" offense

- Next, Zorn was innovative, friendly, and finally unleashing the offense


- Next, Zorn had made Jason Campbell the best Redskin QB since Sonny, proving that Gibbs had only retarded Campbell's development.

- Next Zorn was too predictable and Campbell is worse than Patrick Ramsey

OK. True enough, this is a Redskin fan board. Still, this is the same Zorn, the same Campbell, and all the rest.

This team is neither junk, nor ready for the Super Bowl. The OL is OK, but not the best. The two big WR's might turnout to be fine, but Moss and ARE are both small guys, and Thrash is slowing down.

The DL is not top of the list, and the LBs are not all-stars.

In all, this team does OK, a little bit above average, but they are not the '91 team.

They are improving. That's what they've done each year since Gibbs took over the dysfunctional rust-pile that Spurrier cultivated.

They have a chance to make the playoffs, and they can improve over the off-season.

What else is there to say?


:up:

I find myself more upset by the HATers than the team. Good to know that there are some out there that have a true understanding of the situation.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:32 am
by redskins14ru
zorn will man up and take most of hte heat for today but the redskins offense did make some shabby plays. I think 10and 6 will get them in but the playoffs will need portis and cambell and the entire offense clicking to get what they need, and portis nor cambell have brought Ws bythemselfs
my thoughts in a nut shell get ready for the biggest 4 game stretch imaginable
:idea:

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:49 am
by redskins14ru
well we may need to be succesful as a west coast offense before we get to make those decisions there are plenty of teams that have tried and i remember alot of them they all stood out more at either running or passing and stuck with it one aspect complimenting another but chemestry wise the offense could not get it together, were as an offense altogether limping around out there and have showed our strengths now it is time to play through the weaknesses and to take advantage of the defense. I truley beleive the portis stats tell the story and we all know that. as long as we are going to make the play offs lets do it with betts getting at least some more chances to contribute, 11 carries by portis and few yards next weak again will = even worse than a turn over BY betts and betts could get warm and get it done enough so that they don't look so shy running the ball. also for good measure I wish the cow pukes to lose badly in the weaks to come THANKS.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:02 am
by crazyhorse1
tribeofjudah wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:It's really sad to see how quickly Jansen has aged. He let Renaldo Wynn beat him for a sack today. Wynn! Did he even have a sack as a Redskin?
True.

I wil be in need of some money to purchase gifts over the 2009 Christmas season. So, does anybody wish to place a bet that Jon Jansen is not witth us next season?

I say he is let go due to his high cost against the Cap and the tremendous drop in his game. Any takers?


He is gassed out. Put the young buck Heyer in there....


The entire OL is too old-- every blessed one of them. They were good at the start of the season because they are experienced and skilled, but now they're done. They're so done they get gassed out earlier and earlier in their drives, not just toward the end of the game or even at the half.
From a state of total rest, they're only good for eight or nine plays and then quickly become horrible.

We've got to use all of our drafts/money for FA's/and trade smarts to reduce all of our starting OL to backups except Samuels and Jansen. Jansen should be cut. We also need an expensive killer DL to go with Montgomery. Griff should be cut.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:06 am
by Gibbs4Life
Its all about O-Line, in the draft, the FA market, the trades we make, they all need to give us a revamped re-strengthened O-Line, one with some gearth.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:23 am
by SKINFAN
Haven wrote:I hate our offense...and that's all I have to say. -_-


makes two of us bro.... No matter what we do bring peeps in from far away, still the same effect, none.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:37 am
by RayNAustin
grampi wrote:Welch

If the Skins are improving, I sure don't see it. The offense is just as anemic as its ever been. The defense isn't as good as it was under Williams and they still can't generate a pass rush. And there's still nothing special about our special teams. In what aspects have they improved?


I think Blache has the defense playing great, especially without a decent pass rush. And the secondary is playing as well as anyone could ask. We haven't lost a single game this year because of defense.

The offense however is not "just as anemic as it's ever been".....it's more anemic than it's ever been. In the 5 losses, the Redskins are averaging 9.4 points per game. That's not anemic, that's flat line dead. Over the past 7 games we're not much better at 14 points per game, which places us in a small group at the bottom in the NFL.

So I agree that not only is there no improvement, they are digressing to what can only be described as pathetic and embarrassing, and some of the play makers like CC, Moss, Portis are going to become frustrated enough to start pointing fingers eventually. It's up to Zorn to act before this becomes a total breakdown.

And there is a lot of blame that can be tossed around, from breakdowns in pass pro to dropped passes. But when you have the league's leading rusher, your o-line cannot take the brunt of the blame for the lack of points being scored. They're not great at pass pro, but they've done well in run blocking, and their pass pro does suffer from a QB that reads defenses slow, and holds the ball too long...and rolls into the pass rush as often as he runs away from it.

No, the lack of scoring sits solely on the QB, as was so evident with the Cowboys when Romo was out and Johnson was in. They had the big time receivers TO and Williams, and still couldn't put points on the board. Their o-line looked totally different with Johnson...why? Because he wasn't effective. Do you think Cowboy fans were making up a bunch of excuses for why Johnson wasn't performing? Blaming the o-line? TO's dropped passes?

And AT SOME POINT, political correctness and excuses aren't going to work anymore, and everyone will just have to accept the fact that Jason Campbell is AT BEST an average QB that requires ideal circumstances to be successful. On his bad days, or when other teams actuall play good defense, he's utterly useless and in the same class as the Boller's, and T. Jackson's, and David Carr's of the NFL.

It's utterly ridiculous to blame the receivers for the Redskins poor passing offense. Look at what happened to Randy Moss in Oakland, then look what happened in New England. This is the same situation Santana Moss is in here. When Campbell is on, Santana looks like Randy....when Campbell is off, Santana disappears. You think Santana forgets how to run pass routs every other week? Give me a break.

Yeah, if ARE was 6'7" maybe he makes that jump ball deep, but if Campbell hadn't under thrown it, ARE walks into the endzone with a TD.

The fact is, every game, Campbell leaves a lot of plays on the table out there, going to check downs and not seeing open receivers. And Campbell even admitted that he's more comfortable in the shotgun because he loses sight of the receivers when he plays under center. Unfortunately, the WC offense relies heavily on the pro and ace set more than the shotgun, and with a great running game, play action is a big deal that only works from the QB under center. The shotgun formation limits the offensive options, and it's absolutely crazy that an NFL QB would admit that he isn't comfortable playing under center. If that ain't a big red flag, nothing is.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:57 am
by cleg
If JC is not going to cut it as the QB of the future then we are in for another half decacde of futility at least. Colt B. Is not the answer either. I feel sick about the future iof this team. Knowing what we know now I would trade that hot start for a losses so we could at least get a nice draft pick. Now the best we will do is a mid round pick.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:36 am
by El Mexican
cleg wrote:If JC is not going to cut it as the QB of the future then we are in for another half decacde of futility at least. Colt B. Is not the answer either. I feel sick about the future iof this team. Knowing what we know now I would trade that hot start for a losses so we could at least get a nice draft pick. Now the best we will do is a mid round pick.
;)

Good one there, Cleg.

Your post pretty much synthezises what most of us fans feel every year: anguish.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:40 am
by NJ-SKINS-FAN
this team is so disapointing, words cant express it


just read my sig

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:06 am
by tribeofjudah
redskins14ru wrote:well we my need to be succesful as a west coast offense before we get to make those decisions there are plenty of teams that have tried and i remember alot of them they all stood out more at either running or passing and stuck with it one aspect complimenting another but chemestry wise the offense could not get it together were as an offense altogether limping around out there and have showed our strengths now it is time to play through the weaknesses and to take advantage of the defense. I truley beleive the portis stats tell the story and we all know that. as long as we are going to make the play offs lets do it with betts getting at least some more chances to contribute, 11 carries by portis and few yards next weak again will = even worse than a turn over BY betts and betts could get warm and get it done enough so that they don't look so shy running the ball. also for good measure I wish the cow pukes to lose badly in the weaks to come THANKS.


Point taken. A few more "periods" and "commas" in your posts....would be great....

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:34 am
by Chris Luva Luva
Hall is out best DB... He will get paid by stacks this off-season. Wave goodbye to Shawn Springs.

Rogers, you will not get paid as much as Hall. Despite being drafted and putting in time and effort, you cannot catch a cold. You have the ability to cover like a shutdown corner and the hand-eye coordination of blind amputee.

Chris Horton, you are awesome. You will get paid eventually.

Smoot, you are a career nickel DB.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:22 am
by vwoodzpusha
I think they got away from the run too soon. I know they were gaining yards with it but without the threat of a run the defense will just play pass.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:31 am
by Chris Luva Luva
Someone answer this for me...

Why is James Thrash in at WR? Really?

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:38 am
by PulpExposure
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Someone answer this for me...

Why is James Thrash in at WR? Really?


Yeah, he should NOT be a 3rd WR, at all. Shouldn't really be on the field on offense, to be honest. He brings nothing; no speed, and he drops passes.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:49 am
by Deadskins
PulpExposure wrote:he drops passes.

Except for Moss and Cooley, so do all the rest. :evil:

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:51 am
by Chris Luva Luva
PulpExposure wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Someone answer this for me...

Why is James Thrash in at WR? Really?


Yeah, he should NOT be a 3rd WR, at all. Shouldn't really be on the field on offense, to be honest. He brings nothing; no speed, and he drops passes.



Nothing infuriates me more than him being on the field over Devin and Kelly. He should not be on the field for anything but special teams (blocking). His butt needs to be released. ARE needs to leave with him.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:06 pm
by spenser
RayNAustin is 100% absolutely correct. He said the same thing about 2 weeks ago and got torched on this board for stating the obvious. Jason Campbell is NOT, i repeat NOT a playmaker. Im not suggesting that JC sucks, but he is just not a guy that is going to consistently make plays. To me personally i have never really been sold on JC because to me he just seems to slow. Slow release, slow reads etc. To his credit, he has always said all the right things, and worked very hard. We as an organization haven’t done him any favors with all the different OC's and coaches, but Campbell has been in the league long enough for me to see he is not an ELITE qb, but rather a serviceable guy that can win some games and when he is on and things are going right, he looks above average. But lets face it. Throwing for 12 to 13 TD's in 16 games will NOT cut it. I don’t care how "mistake free" he is. How many 300 yard passing games does JC have under his belt? How many 3 TD games? You look at qb's like Jay Cutler, Romo, Mcnabb, Manning bro's, Aron Rodgers, Kurt warner, Brett Favre, Drew Brees etc, and you see they are always peppering in 300 yard multi TD games. Heck, throw in "average" or even Rookie qbs including: Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tyler Thigpen, Chad Pennington, Matt Cassell, Jeff Garcia, and they Still have occasional big games. Sure they may throw a few more picks than campbell, but as Ray stated, campbell always leaves plays on the field. Am i suggesting that it is ALL his fault? NO. Obviously our receivers need to help a brotha out and hold on to the rock, but my point is that the QB is often a Catalyst. A spark plug, that when inserted, Infuses the whole Offense. Im not a JC hater. I love the guy. He is classy, and a hard worker, and I hope he does become a GREAT qb. But I feel that at this point, he is not Great, and in fact, just average at best.....

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:23 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
spenser wrote:Heck, throw in "average" or even Rookie qbs including: Joe Flacco


You bring up a point that my friends and I discussed while watching the Skins and Ravens yesterday. Flacco and Jason are in similiar situations.

- Average offensive line
- Non existant WR's outside of one guy
- Stellar TE
- Stellar running game
- Defense that will keep you in any game

Yet, why is Flacco lighting up the stats?

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:55 pm
by VetSkinsFan
Countertrey wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
Fios wrote:Doc Walker (a man whose opinion I increasingly admire) said a big chunk of this game came down to two drops (Randle-E -- no shocker there -- and Kelly) and I agree. It's not THE reason for anything but man did they ever come at bad times.


For all those asking to see Kelly more, where are you now? Big play pass hit him in the chest...


MORE KELLY!


I agree...~3weeks of practice and he's not already inducted in the HoF? God, what were we thinking of a rookie WR?

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:57 pm
by NJ-SKINS-FAN
JSPB22 wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:he drops passes.

Except for Moss and Cooley, so do all the rest. :evil:


moss dont drop passes????

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:58 pm
by VetSkinsFan
tribeofjudah wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:
tribeofjudah wrote:I'm once again losing faith in JC, and Zorn too, for that matter....come on man!


How can you get on Zorn. I'd love to pull a thread from before the season and look at how many people were on here looking at a 5-11 season and saying to give Zorn a few years to figure it out. Losing faith in JC, I can understand somewhat. You're frustrated, but it's not Zorn's fault that we miss a field goal, or that Jansen misses blocks EVERY game for sacks (or the 4 and 1 play where he didn't even pick anyone up). Give me a break man. He has this team at 7-5 and in position to make the playoffs in his first year. Don't ride him out of here like everyone else please.


Zorn simply need to be LESS PREDICTABLE. We suck cuz defenses know all our plays. Dig deeper man, deeper into the playbook or something...


The frustration isn't b/c we're not leading the conference. The frustration is b/c we're not making progress. From the away division games, we're REGRESSED. There is no killer instinct. There is no aggression. There's a pile of something brown and smelly that you don't want to step in. THAT'S my personal issue right now.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:58 pm
by skins2win
I think 10and 6 will get them in but the playoffs


I don't think they'll get in at 10/6. They need to be 11/5 and then probably win a tie breaker.

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:07 pm
by VetSkinsFan
El Mexican wrote:
cleg wrote:If JC is not going to cut it as the QB of the future then we are in for another half decacde of futility at least. Colt B. Is not the answer either. I feel sick about the future iof this team. Knowing what we know now I would trade that hot start for a losses so we could at least get a nice draft pick. Now the best we will do is a mid round pick.
;)

Good one there, Cleg.

Your post pretty much synthezises what most of us fans feel every year: anguish.


And how do you know positively that Colt is not the answer? B/C of a few pre-season games a rookie got to play with the 3rd string offense with? Such vision and foresight!!