Gibbs out, Cowher in?

[Secondary_Chaos]

For all those opposed to Gibbs coaching out the final year of his contract (which he says he will), would your opinion of him change should he lead us to a Super Bowl win next season, if not sooner?

Would you still be complaining?

Just a thought.

Hahahahahahahaha like that'll happen. You sure can see we are headed that direction. This is the YEAR! Watch out baby! 2008 (mayyybbbeee 2009 if not this time around) SB HERE WE COME! To answer your question, no, because for one, it aint happening. Secondly, the way Gibbs has coached the second time around is embarassing. Not to say he hasn't done good things for this organization, but the bad out weighs the good. Gibbs is not suited for today's NFL. I would love to see Cowher come in here, lay down the law, get our guys fired up, and instill some discipline and a ferocious defense. We shall see. Im sick of the same old lackluster Skins. Time to bring in a new era. The end. And no, we wont win the superbowl next year and DEFINITELY no sooner.

[Fios]

For all those opposed to Gibbs coaching out the final year of his contract (which he says he will), would your opinion of him change should he lead us to a Super Bowl win next season, if not sooner?

Would you still be complaining?

Just a thought.

Well, obviously not, my belief is that the team's chances of doing that with him as the head coach are severely lessened to the point of making his presence prohibitive. But I have said several times, if he wants to make me eat crow, I'll bring the silverware. I just don't see that happening.

[Mursilis]

For all those opposed to Gibbs coaching out the final year of his contract (which he says he will), would your opinion of him change should he lead us to a Super Bowl win next season, if not sooner?

Would you still be complaining?

Just a thought.

For all those in favor of Gibbs coaching out the final year of his contract (which he says he will), would your opinion of him change should he not lead us to a Super Bowl win (or even a .500+ record) next season, if not sooner?

Would you still be ignoring reality?

Just a thought.

[KazooSkinsFan]

For all those opposed to Gibbs coaching out the final year of his contract (which he says he will), would your opinion of him change should he lead us to a Super Bowl win next season, if not sooner?

Would you still be complaining?

Just a thought.

For all those in favor of Gibbs coaching out the final year of his contract (which he says he will), would your opinion of him change should he not lead us to a Super Bowl win (or even a .500+ record) next season, if not sooner?

Would you still be ignoring reality?

Just a thought.

There's a BIG range there, Super Bowl, .500+ record.

As an ardent supporter (I don't think I'll get any arguments on that) I'll give my view.

I do think he's had enough time to improve, but I think this year we did. JC's been improving constantly, our D has been overall very good and our O is finally moving the ball after years of anemia.

For THIS year JC has made bad mistakes, especially at the end of games and we have been crippled with injuries and yet we have been in EVERY game to the end except the Pats, including really good teams like GB, TB and Dallas.

For NEXT year, I do expect close games to turn to more wins, JC to be coached and have the experience to make fewer mistakes and do better at the end of games and in the red zone and I would question Gibbs a lot more if we're not wiped out by injuries again and that doesn't happen, yes. I would never call for him to be fired though.

[Countertrey]

First, I'd take Marty over Gibbs right now

You can have him. His season last year went exactly as I predicted. I'm sure that there are a boatload of Cleveland, KC, and SD fans who were THRILLED that he left. I was thrilled that he left DC,. Nothing like a coach choking every time he hits the big game to build a big following.

Except for a little luck, and an incompetent offensive game plan by Seattle, Cowher's fate would be the same...

[Mursilis]

For all those opposed to Gibbs coaching out the final year of his contract (which he says he will), would your opinion of him change should he lead us to a Super Bowl win next season, if not sooner?

Would you still be complaining?

Just a thought.

For all those in favor of Gibbs coaching out the final year of his contract (which he says he will), would your opinion of him change should he not lead us to a Super Bowl win (or even a .500+ record) next season, if not sooner?

Would you still be ignoring reality?

Just a thought.

There's a BIG range there, Super Bowl, .500+ record.

As an ardent supporter (I don't think I'll get any arguments on that) I'll give my view.

I do think he's had enough time to improve, but I think this year we did. JC's been improving constantly, our D has been overall very good and our O is finally moving the ball after years of anemia.

For THIS year JC has made bad mistakes, especially at the end of games and we have been crippled with injuries and yet we have been in EVERY game to the end except the Pats, including really good teams like GB, TB and Dallas.

For NEXT year, I do expect close games to turn to more wins, JC to be coached and have the experience to make fewer mistakes and do better at the end of games and in the red zone and I would question Gibbs a lot more if we're not wiped out by injuries again and that doesn't happen, yes. I would never call for him to be fired though.

Regarding being fired, I'm on record as wishing he resigns at the end of the season, but I've also said I've never wanted him to be fired. Even as dissatisfied as I am with his return, I respect the man enough that I'd never wish to see him handed a box and told to clear out his office by 5. He doesn't deserve that level of humiliation. And I'd never be among those fans who chanted "Joe must go". I may feel it sometimes, but I respect him enough not to say it to his face on national TV.

And maybe you're right - we go into next year healthier and luckier, and maybe those close games start going our way instead of the other way, and suddenly we're looking like a contender. I've probably been harsher on him than is warranted, given the way the season has played out - it's just been the "Year of Bad Breaks". Not to say Joe hasn't made his share of mistakes, but without some of these injuries (and ST's death), there's no way we'd be looking at 5-7. If Joe is back next year, I'd love for him to prove me and all the other doubters dead wrong. I promise to be the first to admit the error of my ways.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Not to say Joe hasn't made his share of mistakes

He definitely has. And neither of us said different but I was just answering your question and I agree I've NEVER seen you call for him to be fired and humiliated, Mursilis.

On my defense of Gibbs, as an analogy one classic mistakes in employee reviews is the reviewer thinking their job is to be a fair and impartial "judge" of the employee. This is so totally wrong, their job is as in all things (in their job) to act on behalf of the company. Ideally that means GROWING the employee by advocating positive behavior and correcting bad behavior in a constructive way. Unfortunately it also means weeding out those who are not making it.

That is the way I view rating Gibbs. I don't stick up for arguing his specific decisions many of which I've disagreed with too. I DO expect him to know things like not calling two timeouts in a row. I don't agree with some of his playcalling, particularly in the red zone. However, the standard I use is looking at where we are heading and I see positive trends. I do still strongly believe in his managmenet ability. I do think that some of where I've disagreed with him is not that he's changed but that he's still molding this team and feels the calls are necessary.

Overall, I still have no doubt he has the potential to take us a long way. I believe that anything we do to undermine him will harm us with the current team as well as potential future coaches and players, and I don't trust Danny to just find a better alternative on the carousel. In all ways looking FORWARD supporting Gibbs is the right way to go. In my opinion.

[SkinsJock]

Fact is if Gibbs is not here we then have a new Head Coach and no matter who I think it is a real stretch to imagine we are going to be better off without Gibbs next year.

To me as bad as we are, we are still getting better and I'd rather stick with the stability that Gibbs offers than take a chance - to me this is just a bunch of frustrated fans hoping for a change with "the grass is greener" outlook. I am not convinced that things are that bad that we need to upset everything and possibly get Snyder and Cerrato involved with running things again.

there is a very fine line between success and failure in this game and we could be in for a lot longer drought by cutting off what (admittedly small) progress we have made and starting over here.

Hopefully Gibbs decides to stay - because Snyder is not "firing" Gibbs - and we get some breaks going our way next year - I do think our best chance for 2009 and beyond is to continue getting younger players in here and trying to find some guys that want to play together.

Gibbs is not totally to blame here.

[Fios]

I think it's important to note there is a contingent of fans, myself included, who want Gibbs to remain with the Redskins but in the GM role. Oddly enough, his player assessment skills have improved quite a bit while his on-field, gameday decisions have regressed. So I agree that he is valuable to the franchise, just not in his current capacity.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I think it's important to note there is a contingent of fans, myself included, who want Gibbs to remain with the Redskins but in the GM role. Oddly enough, his player assessment skills have improved quite a bit while his on-field, gameday decisions have regressed. So I agree that he is valuable to the franchise, just not in his current capacity.

I don't think he wants to do that. I have no basis to say it except he always seemed to want to be on the sidelines. I would be totally happy if he CHOSE that role and stayed. I just think if he's forced into it then he would rather quit. Again, I'm just guessing.

[PulpExposure]

To me as bad as we are, we are still getting better

You seriously believe so?

I can't point to one player, aside from Jason Campbell and Chris ey, who is playing better now than the beginning of the season.

I don't think any of our young guys (Landry, McIntosh, Montgomery, banished Golston - though to be fair, it's hard to get better when you're playing in Siberia- )have developed.

[SkinsJock]

I think it's important to note there is a contingent of fans, myself included, who want Gibbs to remain with the Redskins but in the GM role. Oddly enough, his player assessment skills have improved quite a bit while his on-field, gameday decisions have regressed. So I agree that he is valuable to the franchise, just not in his current capacity.

While I have no way of knowing for sure it does seem that Gibbs would be helpful as the GM although I think there are others that are already very good GMs that would be better.

I don't think he wants to do that. I have no basis to say it except he always seemed to want to be on the sidelines. I would be totally happy if he CHOSE that role and stayed. I just think if he's forced into it then he would rather quit. Again, I'm just guessing.

The problem is the decision is all up to Gibbs - he cannot be fired or "forced into" anything - that would be a disaster for Snyder - so he makes the decision and he might not want to give up or change his role as it is now. IF he feels that is in the best interests of the Redskins then he will stay as he has already indicated he will do! - I just do not think anything will change

If Gibbs thinks the Redskins would be better with a GM he will get one in here, and that, IMO would be the best of what looks like some not so good choices all round. That way the GM could be in position (hopefully doing a good job) for when Gibbs leaves and that will mean that the new Head Coach will have to get along with the GM which might mean a lot of changes after 2008 season if things have not drastically improved.

[Bob 0119]

I gotta agree with Fios here.

Maybe we should try moving Gibbs to GM. Let him focus his time and attention on players and recruitment, but let someone else worry about game planning, and field management.

Did he really ask a ref if he could take another time-out expecting him to explain the rules?

Just the rumor I heard.

The reason he said he brought Saunders in in the first place (yes, I meant to put "in" in there twice, both there and here) was because he felt his own playcalling wasn't up to snuff, wasn't it? So then why would he still want to run the plays in the most critical and difficult area of the field to score? If you trust Al to call the plays, let him call all of them. If you don't trust him in the red-zone, why trust him at all?

[Redskin in Canada]

Countertrey and skinsJock are the only ones talking any sense around here. Please continue.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I think it's important to note there is a contingent of fans, myself included, who want Gibbs to remain with the Redskins but in the GM role. Oddly enough, his player assessment skills have improved quite a bit while his on-field, gameday decisions have regressed. So I agree that he is valuable to the franchise, just not in his current capacity.

While I have no way of knowing for sure it does seem that Gibbs would be helpful as the GM although I think there are others that are already very good GMs that would be better.

- And we know that because they are already employed? No?

I don't think he wants to do that. I have no basis to say it except he always seemed to want to be on the sidelines. I would be totally happy if he CHOSE that role and stayed. I just think if he's forced into it then he would rather quit. Again, I'm just guessing.

The problem is the decision is all up to Gibbs - he cannot be fired or "forced into" anything - that would be a disaster for Snyder - so he makes the decision and he might not want to give up or change his role as it is now. IF he feels that is in the best interests of the Redskins then he will stay as he has already indicated he will do! - I just do not think anything will change

- Just wondering on this. Everyone (or most everyone) around here hates Snyder. Have you considered if Gibbs goes we're back in Snyder's hands? Is that better?

[KazooSkinsFan]

Countertrey and skinsJock are the only ones talking any sense around here. Please continue.

In other words, they are the ones who agree with you?

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

For all those in favor of Gibbs coaching out the final year of his contract (which he says he will), would your opinion of him change should he not lead us to a Super Bowl win (or even a .500+ record) next season, if not sooner?

Would you still be ignoring reality?

Just a thought.

First, my opinion of him would never change.

At that point, however, I would support his not being the coach of this team anymore. We gave him the keys to the city, the team, and our hopes 4 seasons ago, and we said we'd give him the opportunity to coach this team for five years.

He's keeping his end of the bargain (despite less than desired results). Can we hold our own and give him the loyalty a legend like him deserves?

[Bob 0119]

- Just wondering on this. Everyone (or most everyone) around here hates Snyder.

I don't hate Snyder.

Why would you hate Snyder?

Because he is so willing to do whatever it takes to win that money is no object?

You may not agree with some of his decisions, and in retrospect it's really easy to criticize someone's decisions because hind-sight is always 20-20, but Mr. Snyder is not just a nameless/faceless owner that doesn't care about this team. He's a fan, and he wants us to win just as much as we do.

Also, other owners might have caved to the pressure to change the team's name and logo by now. As long as Mr. Snyder owns the team, he will fight to keep us as the Redskins.

I don't understand how any Redskin fan can hate Dan Snyder...

[langleyparkjoe]

I don't hate Snyder but he has done some stupid transactions. I think that's everyone's total beef... oh and the fact he juices up all the prices @ Fedex Field.

[KazooSkinsFan]

- Just wondering on this. Everyone (or most everyone) around here hates Snyder.

I don't hate Snyder.

Why would you hate Snyder?

Because he is so willing to do whatever it takes to win that money is no object?

You may not agree with some of his decisions, and in retrospect it's really easy to criticize someone's decisions because hind-sight is always 20-20, but Mr. Snyder is not just a nameless/faceless owner that doesn't care about this team. He's a fan, and he wants us to win just as much as we do.

Also, other owners might have caved to the pressure to change the team's name and logo by now. As long as Mr. Snyder owns the team, he will fight to keep us as the Redskins.

I don't understand how any Redskin fan can hate Dan Snyder...

I didn't say it in my post but I like him as well for the same reasons. He loves the Skins spends what it takes, and at least he's growing. I'd so rather have him then the Ford family. I just meant to point to the highly anti-Gibbs crowd they are advocating turning the team to Snyder and the anti-Gibbs and anti-Snyder crowds are highly corrolated.

[Countertrey]

Countertrey and skinsJock are the only ones talking any sense around here. Please continue.

In other words, they are the ones who agree with you?

He didn't stutter.

[SkinsJock]

I think that there are a number of us that are actually looking for some change here and some who think that "some change" is what we have been doing for the past 4 years and they want to make bigger changes

I think it's important to note there is a contingent of fans, myself included, who want Gibbs to remain with the Redskins but in the GM role. Oddly enough, his player assessment skills have improved quite a bit while his on-field, gameday decisions have regressed. So I agree that he is valuable to the franchise, just not in his current capacity.

While I have no way of knowing for sure it does seem that Gibbs would be helpful as the GM although I think there are others that are already very good GMs that would be better.

- And we know that because they are already employed? No?

I am not totally up on the GMs that are working now (or more importantly, that might be available) but I just wonder if Gibbs is willing or suited to being a GM

I don't think he wants to do that. I have no basis to say it except he always seemed to want to be on the sidelines. I would be totally happy if he CHOSE that role and stayed. I just think if he's forced into it then he would rather quit. Again, I'm just guessing.

The problem is the decision is all up to Gibbs - he cannot be fired or "forced into" anything - that would be a disaster for Snyder - so he makes the decision and he might not want to give up or change his role as it is now. IF he feels that is in the best interests of the Redskins then he will stay as he has already indicated he will do! - I just do not think anything will change

- Just wondering on this. Everyone (or most everyone) around here hates Snyder. Have you considered if Gibbs goes we're back in Snyder's hands? Is that better?

I know some hate Snyder but most IMO (including me) do not like how badly he hurt the team by his actions, however well intentioned they were - and a few (very few) like him (maybe his family and Cerrato)

I think that getting Gibbs back and agreeing to let Gibbs do what he has done has mean't that he and Cerrato have someone who admittedly works with them but Gibbs has changed the way that the Redskins do business. Not all of this has been great (or even good) but what I am encouraged about is that last off-season we were not as active as we used to be and this year we have some picks left.

The problem I see is we need a better player evaluator - we have still made some really bad player decisions and those people need a lot of help - that is why I want an "experienced" GM that can find the players that are presently playing, that can help now and the younger players for the future.

I just do not really want to A) start over - I don't think that is what is needed
OR B) go back to Snyder (and whoever) running this team again - even though he means well

[PulpExposure]

I don't hate Snyder but he has done some stupid transactions. I think that's everyone's total beef... oh and the fact he juices up all the prices @ Fedex Field.

Well, yeah generally I agree with you.

Except:

1. He's getting better, from what I can tell. His idiot free agent days seem to be over. Hopefully he's learning.

2. The way he, and the Skins organization, handled the Taylor murder & burial was classy.

3. He may be selling beers for 15 bucks a pop, but at least he didn't sell out completely and go the PSL (personal seat license) route.

Now that's some really awful behavior imho.

[Bob 0119]

I don't hate Snyder but he has done some stupid transactions. I think that's everyone's total beef... oh and the fact he juices up all the prices @ Fedex Field.

Well, yeah generally I agree with you.

Except:

1. He's getting better, from what I can tell. His idiot free agent days seem to be over. Hopefully he's learning.

2. The way he, and the Skins organization, handled the Taylor murder & burial was classy.

3. He may be selling beers for 15 bucks a pop, but at least he didn't sell out completely and go the PSL (personal seat license) route.

Now that's some really awful behavior imho.

Wow, you're buying beer for $15 a pop at Fed-Ex? Find me next time, I'll sell you my beer for $10! I know where you can get them for $8!

I agree with you on how he handled Taylor's death as well. Some have said "oh, well he had to do all that stuff or he'd be crucified", and while yes, he had to do something he didn't have to do nearly what he's done so far.

He didn't have to fly the whole team down for the funeral, those guys could have paid their own way.

He didn't have to have towels made and given away for free to aa the fans last weekend.

He didn't have to start a trust fund

He didn't have to put Taylor in the Ring of Honor

He didn't have to go down to the Hospital the first night that it happened.

To be honest, he probably could have gotten away with much less than he's done so far, as long as he acknowledged Taylor's death, made a classy trinute video, and had patches made for the team uniforms.

A lot of people hated George Preston Marshall, and Jack Kent Cooke in their days also.

[langleyparkjoe]

I still feel he woulda been crucified had he not done those things. Regardless, he did and I'm very glad he did... still not hating on the guy, he's improving but he brings in alot of money off of those $8 beers though.