The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I don't think we have unreasonable expectations.....we have three opponents in our division that the we want to compete with, and not be cellar dwellers.

Do we not have the right to demand that amateurish mistakes by an all star staff be addressed after 4 years?

Couldn't resist. Maybe they should add some nice lovely gold lace to their pretty white blouses? So dainty.

Whatever.

MEZZSKIN wrote:iquestion???
does anyone remember that playaction back in 2005....Sellers every week was wide open and saunders has taken in out of the playbook(i say that because i havent seen it in the last 20 games or so)...

They ran it in the 4th qtr of the Giants game, on first and goal from the 2. Sellers dropped the game tieing TD. But your right, they don't seam to run it now that Sauders is the play caller.

Those of you that think the play calling was conservative, go back and look at the play by play. Campbell ran the no hudle and threw for most of the fourth 1/4.

Gibbs can't please some of you any time. Win a game being conservative - and he should throw more. Loses a game were he threw the ball more in the 3rd & 4th 1/4s running a no huddle for most of 2 drives and he is still too conservative. If Gibbs is guilty of anything it is not snatching up GW and say "A punt in the second half would be nice!" The D was just horrible today!

The Offense could have been better but they scored 25 points on a team that gives up 20 point on average. The Iggle have only surrendered 4 rushing TDs this year and usually only gives up 100 yards rushing and the Skins O had put almost 150 on them so I can understand why Gibbs thought they could punch it in. He thrusted his players and they didn't get it done! If Gibbs had gone conservative and just ran the ball on them in the 4th maybe the Iggles would have been tired in down near the goal line. Beside if ey doesn't jump off sides the Skins would have scored a TD (3rd to Thrash). I liked the call for the draw to Portis from shutgun, but the Skins didn't sell it very well. A lot of teams score on that play. Very simular to the play Westbrook scored on in the first.

Enough ranting... I don't ever have to read anything here every again because most post are the same. Gibbs is conservative. It isn't ever the players fault. Sauders doesn't really call the plays. All those post are depressing as hel... Never mind I hate all these negative vibes.

Yes I know, but this disappointment now is because he set the bar so high during his first tenure. Had there been no Joe Gibbs I, we would be no different from, say... Seattle.

Sorry but I think that you are wrong on this point. Gibbs' achievement in his first tenure is not relevant to the disappointment. Since Gibbs left, the Redskins have been one of the worst franchises in the NFL. Seattle, who you mentioned, has been in the Super Bowl in the last 15 years. Since Gibbs left, every other team in our division has reached the Super Bowl. In fact, of the other 15 NFC teams, 11 have reached the Super Bowl since the Redskins last did. We are in the same category as the Vikings, Lions, Cardinals, and Saints of the last 15 years. Expecting to see some improvement from a team after 3.5 years under a coach, any coach, is not unrealistic. If anything, Gibbs still has a job because of what he did in his first tenure. Any other coach in the NFL would've been canned by this point.

Gibbs can't please some of you any time.

What has he done to please anybody? His record is barely better than Norv's was.

Anyone know the status of Taylor?

Because if he's done, evidently so is our defense...

PulpExposure wrote:Anyone know the status of Taylor?

Because if he's done, evidently so is our defense...

MRI on his knee tomorrow. Grade 2 MCL sprain is the initial diagnosis.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:Anyone know the status of Taylor?

Because if he's done, evidently so is our defense...

MRI on his knee tomorrow. Grade 2 MCL sprain is the initial diagnosis.

Thanks. That's not good news for a safety.

JSPB22 wrote:

Fios wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

MEZZSKIN wrote:UH DUDE .....what bar??? he hasnt won a division no NFC championship games ..No SB 's and since the 05 TB WC WIN hes 10-16!!!..

what bar?????/........we just want progress!!!!...and it hasnt happerned!!!

The bar was set during Gibbs I.

The Redskins are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy short of that

Yes I know, but this disappointment now is because he set the bar so high during his first tenure. Had there been no Joe Gibbs I, we would be no different from, say... Seattle.

I disagree, Bad football is bad football no matter what. My bro (a Bucs fan) called to say how bad he felt for me watching my team blow another 4th qtr lead. Bar what bar, I don't compare this team to any other Skins team. This team was winning the game, running the ball well, passing the ball well, then the coaches step in and hand the game to Philly.

People are overreacting.

If not for the third down penalty on ey at the goal line, Thrash would have had his third TD reception of the game, the Redskins would have been up 29-20, and the victory would have been sealed. People would be praising Gibbs for opening up the offense more. People would be praising Campbell's poise and maturity. People would be praising the Redskins line for being able to run to the right. People would be praising the coaching staff for overcoming all the injuries and setbacks this season and putting the Redskins at 6-3 for the first time in ages.

Yes, one play can change the whole game.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Yes I know, but this disappointment now is because he set the bar so high during his first tenure. Had there been no Joe Gibbs I, we would be no different from, say... Seattle.

Sorry but I think that you are wrong on this point. Gibbs' achievement in his first tenure is not relevant to the disappointment. Since Gibbs left, the Redskins have been one of the worst franchises in the NFL. Seattle, who you mentioned, has been in the Super Bowl in the last 15 years. Since Gibbs left, every other team in our division has reached the Super Bowl. In fact, of the other 15 NFC teams, 11 have reached the Super Bowl since the Redskins last did. We are in the same category as the Vikings, Lions, Cardinals, and Saints of the last 15 years. Expecting to see some improvement from a team after 3.5 years under a coach, any coach, is not unrealistic. If anything, Gibbs still has a job because of what he did in his first tenure. Any other coach in the NFL would've been canned by this point.

Yea, ask Marty. He was fired after 1 year and an 8-8 season....started 0-5, and then went 8-3 and got fired

Can't agree more, Snout.

Unfortunately after all is said and done a 'L' is still a 'L'

Snout wrote:People are overreacting.

If not for the third down penalty on ey at the goal line, Thrash would have had his third TD reception of the game, the Redskins would have been up 29-20, and the victory would have been sealed. People would be praising Gibbs for opening up the offense more. People would be praising Campbell's poise and maturity. People would be praising the Redskins line for being able to run to the right. People would be praising the coaching staff for overcoming all the injuries and setbacks this season and putting the Redskins at 6-3 for the first time in ages.

Yes, one play can change the whole game.

The had way more than one play inside the 5 and came up with FGs

RayNAustin wrote:The had way more than one play inside the 5 and came up with FGs

Let's consider another play: If Yoder stretches another foot on the 3rd and 5, same result, Redskins are up 29-20 and we are all happy and excited about being 6-3.

When people say that Gibbs is more conservative in Gibbs II, I think that is a valid criticism. But consider the bigger picture. The Redskins players were better during Gibbs I. The players we are putting on the field these days aren't as good. Part of that is because of injuries. Part of that is because of bad personnel decisions.

Consider that we have lost the right half of the offensive line, our star running back is playing hurt, we do not have a typical big #1 receiver, our two top receivers are playing hurt, and the third receiver who we spent big money on rarely plays, and when he does play he never makes big plays. On defense, our star linebacker is out, one of our starting CBs is lost for the season, the other two top CBs are playing hurt, and our star safety left the game in the second half with an injury.

Put all that together and I say that it is a miracle that this team was one play away from sweeping Philly and being 6-3 on the season. Kudos to the coaching staff for almost making something happen considering how little they have to work with.

I actually don't feel too bad about this loss. This team has obviously been in trouble all season. We are going to get absolutely destroyed by Dallas and New York, so everyone better come to terms with that. Remember, Dallas blew the Eagles out in Philly, and we lost miserably to this one-man show at home. Our defense is a LOT worse than everyone seems to think, with or without Shawn Taylor. Our d-line is just not that good, which we all knew going into LAST offseason. What did we get? A safety. Sure, he's a good safety, but that doesn't make up for lack of a pass rush or consistent run-stopping ability.

I don't know everything that's wrong with this team, but poor or mediocre personnel decisions by the front office ever since Beathard left are a big reason. The record of teams like Dallas and New England versus our record makes the Redskins look like utter fools.

old-timer wrote:I actually don't feel too bad about this loss. This team has obviously been in trouble all season. We are going to get absolutely destroyed by Dallas and New York, so everyone better come to terms with that. Remember, Dallas blew the Eagles out in Philly, and we lost miserably to this one-man show at home. Our defense is a LOT worse than everyone seems to think, with or without Shawn Taylor. Our d-line is just not that good, which we all knew going into LAST offseason. What did we get? A safety. Sure, he's a good safety, but that doesn't make up for lack of a pass rush or consistent run-stopping ability.

I don't know everything that's wrong with this team, but poor or mediocre personnel decisions by the front office ever since Beathard left are a big reason. The record of teams like Dallas and New England versus our record makes the Redskins look like utter fools.

I agree we need a rush but Laron is unique. We will be even more in awe of Landry once we get a pass rush.

Gibbs is still loser.

old-timer wrote:Our defense is a LOT worse than everyone seems to think, with or without Shawn Taylor. Our d-line is just not that good, which we all knew going into LAST offseason. What did we get? A safety. Sure, he's a good safety, but that doesn't make up for lack of a pass rush or consistent run-stopping ability.

I agree 100%. I would add that I do not like the Williams "bend don't break" style of defense -- or how that philosophy affects personnel decisions. "Bend don't break" leaves the defense on the field more than I would like. And now that our cover guys are injured, the "bend don't break" defense works like a sieve. Send this AFC defense back to the AFC and give me a front four that will control the line.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Gibbs can't please some of you any time.

What has he done to please anybody? His record is barely better than Norv's was.

You're sort of right.

Norv took over a team that was three years removed from a SB (2 from the playoffs) and went 23-34 in his first 56 games (no playoffs). That is a .411 winning percentage.

Joe took over a team that was twelve years removed from HIS last SB and 4 years removed from the only playoff run in those twelve years. While he does have a poor W/L record in those 56 games 26-31 (.464) he got this team back to the playoffs in 2 years and probably will do it again this year.

So forgive me if I am inclined to give him a little rope.

Joe's biggest problem was trying to "build" a winner too quick. The whole Brunell experiment and changing to Saunders system has set this team back to the point where this is really his first year going forward with any chance for long term success.

Now lets get rid of him and start over...

Snout wrote:

old-timer wrote:Our defense is a LOT worse than everyone seems to think, with or without Shawn Taylor. Our d-line is just not that good, which we all knew going into LAST offseason. What did we get? A safety. Sure, he's a good safety, but that doesn't make up for lack of a pass rush or consistent run-stopping ability.

I agree 100%. I would add that I do not like the Williams "bend don't break" style of defense -- or how that philosophy affects personnel decisions. "Bend don't break" leaves the defense on the field more than I would like. And now that our cover guys are injured, the "bend don't break" defense works like a sieve. Send this AFC defense back to the AFC and give me a front four that will control the line.

It all starts with the front four. Our dline is basically worthless. Carter shows up every once in a while but doesn't play with any consistency. Griffin is the best player on the line, but he can't seem to stay healthy. He seems to be the new Shawn Springs. Daniels, at his age, is getting close to worthless. Montgomery has shows some flashes, but I don't think that he is starting material quite yet. Wilson, off the bench has been decent. Evans embarrassed himself today but he is a decent player off the bench. An argument could be made that all 4 starters need to be replace, but more realistically, we need to replace Montgomery and Daniels. Until we develop a consistent pass rush from the defensive line we are going to have an inconsistent defense.

to piggy back this point on the pass rush......didnt the giants have like 30 sacks off the eagles???....to us its like breaking thru Fort Knox....Were going to catch another beating this week .....its an embarassment to Gibbs Snyder Cerrato Bugel , Williams Saunders and all the players that in Gibbs FOURTH SEASON The entire fan base despondent and resigned to defeat against Dallas.......We waited 4 years for this.

You know what...ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! You psuedo, quasi Redskins fans who are now calling for the head of the Great Joe Gibbs??? I even have read some posts on here stating that the Cowboys will beat us next week. My goodness...what sheer blasphemy. I thought I would never hear that from any REDSKIN Fan. You all have now lost it... If anything over the years you realized that a Joe Gibbs coached team yielded champions and championships! He has brought back respect to this team to what was lost and became a laughingstock of the NFL. His biggest mistake was hiring Al Saunders. Gibbs is the Offensive guru...so he should be solely in charge of that offense. In 2005 our offense was rolling and produced great yardage and points. I did not hear anything then about Gibbs' playcalling.

You might want to look at Gregg Williams' stubborness for forcing his cover two schemes so much...leaving the middle, screens, underneath patterns and anything else open all day, i.e. New England game.

Normally Gibbs would have called for an extra point on that ensuing touchdown...but he listened to others decide for him to go ahead for the two. Now, had he gone for the one you all would have screamed again for him to go for two...but guess what, he should have gone for one.

None of you all can coach! So let Gibbs do what he can do and let him right the ship of this football team! BUT for you all to show the blatant disrespect to our head coach, who is doing us a favor of even coming back, is not right and only bad things will happen to all of you defectors!!!

As a matter of fact...why you all are at it...turn in your B&G card and become Cowboy or Patriot or whomever fans. And let me and the rest of the REAL and TRUE Redskins fans cheer our team and coach on to victory!!!

I guarantee we will be in the playoffs and will be fighting for our rightful place amongst the NFC teams...but I made of list of all you Benedicts...you dare cheer for us then

None of you all can coach! So let Gibbs do what he can do and let him right the ship of this football team! BUT for you all to show the blatant disrespect to our head coach, who is doing us a favor of even coming back, is not right and only bad things will happen to all of you defectors!!!

Your entire post is utter nonsense, but this is particularly asinine. Who exactly is Gibbs doing "a favor"? He is getting paid $5 million a year to coach this team so don't come on here and act like he is doing us some big favor. This is a job for him, and a job that he is getting paid a ton of money by Dan Snyder to do. And so far he has done a poor job as head coach. He is one of the higher paid NFL head coaches and has a below .500 record, suffered his worst single season, and also lost a game by the largest margin of his career.

Canes dont waste your time...

I'm totally confounded by the defensive approach today, which started out bad, and ended worse.

I don't understand the choice to position safeties so deep on the opening drive and all game long, when clearly Philly's main weapon is westbrook. It would seem counter to logic to not play press coverage and keep a safety in the box.

I understand why he might try that against the Pats (didn't work) because of the weapons they have, but clearly this is the epitome of the dreaded "prevent defense" and not a sound approach against a team that thrives on getting westbrook in space.

If there was anything positive to come out of this game, it was Jason Campbell's ability to score some points with his arm, though late in the game that seemed to disappear.

As for your comments ICEMAN, you are entitled to your opinion, and if you want to dress up in a buckskin skirt and shake your burgundy and gold pom poms regardless of what is happening to this team, go for it.

But outside of this board....the fellows who are paid to opine about football and the Redskins...some of them ex-Redskin players who probably know a little bit about what they are talking about, are saying many of the same things that is being said on this board.

There is no shortage of opinions that could be questioned here, however, many of the criticisms are absolutely valid, and pretty universal here and elsewhere.

Those items such as clock and time out management have been a problem since Gibbs returned. There is no excuse for these kinds of failures to continue year after year. The coaches are responsible for coaching the players, and correcting their mistakes, but how can they be expected to do that, when they seem incapable of correcting their own coaching mistakes...that by the way is obvious to anyone even slightly learned in the game...including the players on the team.

Santana Moss's apparent attitude this week is a reflection of the frustrations and tensions building on a team that just keeps shooting itself in the foot and can't seem to correct it, by both players and COACHES to be frank. Honestly, however frustrating that might be for us fans....I dare say it is even more frustrating for the guys going out to practice everyday, and working their tails off....playing hurt....etc.

Now coaches in the NFL are renown for being very demanding of players, and insisting on high levels of performance in practices and games. That's fine. But with that comes a responsibility for coaches to demand the best from themselves too. And I personally see that some of these glaring coaching mistakes have continued to plague this team, and remain uncorrected.

In 2006, the players had, as I recall, a very diplomatic but definite little mutiny, in that they (defensive line) argued for allowing them more freedom to play aggressively...and it began to show up in better d-line performance toward the end of the year.

From time to time, you can hear the frustrations coming out. The way the players have supported Lloyd is something to watch....their support indicates that BL is not a locker room problem...could it be that he is just the sort that will speak his mind to coaches, and they don't like what he is saying?

Given the problems of the past with certain individuals....popular players such as Arrington for example.....Peirce another.....Lloyd just may be one of those types that recognize that the problems on offense stem more from the artificial handcuffs being placed on the players through overly conservative mindsets, and isn't afraid to say so.

In any case, you'd have to be completely blind not to see that this team does some very inexplicable things, and continues to under achieve.

Much of this is completely counter to what one expects from a Joe Gibbs coached team. Gibbs has always had the reputation of being focused on attention to detail, and being extremely well organized, and well disiplined.....he's always been a master of second half adjustments, etc. Well, this team is none of that. This team is in fact the exact opposite of that. And nothing illustrates that more than the elementary mistakes being made by both coaches and players alike. We can't manage the clock properly. We can't manage time outs properly. There is indecision in play calling frequently, and there are these stupid personal foul and other big penalties that happen almost every game. Fletcher taunting a sideline after a sucessful 3rd down stop for example...that results in a 15 yarder and a 1st down. Helmut to helmut on Landry, and many others that are indicitive of a very undisiplined football team. That disipline is a coaching responsibility as well as is the clock and TO management.

Overall, it is astounding that we see this....all of this.....on a Joe Gibbs team. It's uncharacteristic....but then again, so is a sub 500 record after 4 seasons.

These criticisms are perfectly valid. The only issue here is that Gibbs is considered by many to be above reproach. But this is not the Joe Gibbs that took the redskins to those Super Bowls. This Joe Gibbs has not been able to correct his own, and his staff's inability to perform even those basic fundementals of NOT CALLING time outs unnecessarily.....of getting the proper plays called in a timely manner.....

This football team believes it's the right thing to do to SPIKE A FREAKING FOOTBALL ON THE 1 YARDLINE ON FIRST AND GOAL WITH 58 seconds on the clock?????

This team believes it's proper to call the same formation (Jumbo, no receiver) again, and again and again, costing two potential victories.

This team still struggles with the same problems week in and week out, year in and year out.

Any other coach would be fired for even half of this type madness.

ICEMAN wrote: His biggest mistake was hiring Al Saunders. Gibbs is the Offensive guru...so he should be solely in charge of that offense.

Are you aware that it came out a few weeks ago that Gibbs has limited the plays that Saunders can call? Its possibly comparable to telling a painter to paint a beautiful colorful painting and you only provide them with black paint. Perhaps you might be jumping a little quickly yourself.

Ikester