The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

JSPB22 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:With parity, especially in the NFC, no one should count us out this season.

Have to disagree here.
Green Bay 7-1
Dallas 7-1
Detroit - 6-2
NY Giants 6-2
Washington 5-3

The problem is two of these teams are from the NFC North and three of these teams are from the NFC East. With losses to both Green Bay and the NY Giants, Washington has to leapfrog at least two teams to be assured of a playoff berth. Impossible: No. Improbable: Yes, given the two teams Washington has to leapfrog, which both defeated the Redskins earlier this season. And Washington doesn't play two of the teams it would need to leapfrog again this season. Not to mention every NFC team ahead of the Redskins is on pace for a 12-4 or better season. The Redskins are not.

Not true. We beat the Lions, so we own the tie-breaker with them. and we are only one game back. No leap-frog is necessary. If GB wins that division, as it looks like they will, that loss costs us nothing other than the "L." We still have a game against the G-strings, so they do not own any tie-breakers over us yet. We do have to still beat them in NJ, but that is not impossible. We are two behind the Pies, but we still have two games against them, so again, they do not own any tie-breakers over us. We are right in the hunt for an NFC playoff spot, no matter how pessimistically you want to view it.

I want to view it pessimistically. The glass is completely empty.
(This way I cannot be once again disappointed).

There seems to be a lot of talk about receivers here and little about the QB. But the fact is, JC isn't getting it done. PERIOD. No excuses about how many games he's started.....or o-line issues or anything else. He is supposed to be a deep ball thrower....that is supposed to be one of his big talents......I DON"T SEE IT. Where is it? When have we seen it? Where did this reputation come from?

Clearly, JC's deep balls are TOO flat! He's missed several open receivers deep this year, with game breaking potential. The lack of TD's and our inability to score in the red zone IS A QB PROBLEM, and cannot be blamed on a receiver (BL) who doesn't even make it on the field.

I think that you're wrong about JC throwing a bad deep ball. There are several important things that you are forgetting and you also seem to have a selective memory at some of his throws. He overthrew Moss during the Eagles game earlier in the season and again yesterday, although a healthy Moss catches that ball against the Jets. However, he has also had more than his fair share of deep passes dropped or misplayed. First of all, if Lloyd times his jump properly against the Dolphins he probably catches that ball. Against the Packers Moss dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball. Against the Cardinals James Thrash dropped another perfectly thrown deep ball. Lloyd couldn't haul in a deep ball in that game when dove for it in the endzone. It would've been a tough catch but anytime an NFL receiver gets two hands on the ball he probably should make the catch. I believe it was also in the Cardinals game that JC hit Thrash on a deep ball, but it was called off because of offensive pass interference. Yesterday, JC threw deep to Thrash in the endzone and while the throw wasn't 100% perfect, it was a catch that a legitimate NFL receiver makes.

So the problems with the deep ball are not all JC's fault. For starters, we need to throw more of them during games because that it where the timing is developed. Before yesterday, the last deep ball that we threw to Moss was during the Packers game, so it is unrealistic to not run that play for several weeks and then expect the timing to be there. Additionally, we are throwing deep balls to the wrong players. ARE and Moss are our fastest receivers, yet we throw the ball deep to Thrash who can't get any separation from his receivers. And when JC hits Thrash he doesn't make the plays. Finally, we don't really have the types of receivers to throw too. Look at the leading receivers in the NFL...Moss, Plaxico, Edwards, TO, etc. They all have size. Their qb's can throw the ball up to them and they can go up, out muscle/out jump defenders to make the play. JC doesn't have that type of receiver. So it's very easy to just blame the qb, but there are many more factors that go into the lack of timing on deep balls. JC does need to put a little more air under his deep balls, but the guy is throwing deep to a hobbled Moss and Thrash, so what exactly do you expect him to do?

RayNAustin wrote:I think this is Campbell's 3nd year actually. He was drafted in 2005 Spent 2005 on the bench behind Brunell and Ramsey....played in the 2006 preseason, and started halfway through 2006 season. So this is his third year with the Redskins and second year as a "starter". That's plenty enough time under center to not be considered a rookie, and after all of the hoopla about how much work he put in in the offseason, we should expect more tangible evidence that he is the real deal. He's been decent at times....flashes of great promise but never has had that "breakout" game.

Given the fact that we traded up to draft him in the 1st round of 2005, I think by midseason 2007, he should be delivering.

We've had countless "promises" from some of our big picks. Westbrook, Howard, Shuler, Ramsey.....and now Campbell. I began feeling good about Campbell early in the season after listening to all of the hype. Halfway through now, he's just not producing and I don't see him being anything more than a game manager.

The new NFL we find ourselves in with teams like the Pats, Colts, Cowboys scoring tons of points, you need a QB that can light the opposition up if you want to be competitive. I don't care how good you run the ball these days....the opposing defenses can stack the box and force you to beat them in the air.

Right now the Redskins have all of their eggs in one basket, and that basket looks pretty mediocre at the moment.

It's his third year, but he hasn't even started an entire season's worth of games, so experience wise he is basically a rookie. He didn't start practicing with the first string offense until the latter part of last season. Now he has a banged up line, no consistent running game, a hobbled #1 receiver, and James Thrash as his #3. Compare his numbers to other qb's in their first 15 games and you'll seeing that he is doing perfectly fine. It would be nice if he could turn into Peyton Manning overnight but that isn't realistic. A qb's development takes time.

Hey, I'm just calling it like I see it. Optimism is fine. Faith is fine. But as results go, there is little tangible improvement. In reality, there is a bit of digression insofar as a big decrease in TD's, increase in int's, and a lower QB rating compared to his numbers last year.....last year when the defense was playing much more poorly.

With the offseason work coupled with the experience gained starting 7 games (almost a half season) last year, one should expect visual and tangible improvement.

All excuses aside like o-line...dropped passes etc., show me where JC has demonstrated any marked improvement?

Until they change the rules of the game, and POINTS are no longer the deciding factor, JC just ain't gettin it done.

As I said earlier, he has a tendency to stare down his intended target (dbacks do a lot of reading QB eyes) and he holds the ball too long.

Considering the unbelievable amount of success on the ground Sunday, the inability to get the passing game going is pretty troubling.

I don't know how you can consider the QB not a problem in such a case. If it were a snake, it would bite you.

RayNAustin wrote:In reality, there is a bit of digression insofar as a big decrease in TD's, increase in int's, and a lower QB rating compared to his numbers last year.....last year when the defense was playing much more poorly.

All excuses aside like o-line...dropped passes etc., show me where JC has demonstrated any marked improvement?

Are you serious? A QBs numbers are going to be inflated when the defense is playing poorly. He gets many more opportunities; he has to pass almost constantly because the team is behind. And you can't just brush aside the o-line injuries and dropped passes as if they are meaningless to this discussion. The INT he threw against the Jets was because he was hit as he threw the ball. But ignoring all of that, I have seen improvement from JC in the following areas:
1. Quickness of release.
2. Checking down to secondary and tertiary receivers.
3. Looking off defenders.
4. Scrambling for 1st downs when the opportunity presents itself.
5. Stepping up into the pocket and avoiding the rush.
6. Number of victories.

With the offseason work coupled with the experience gained starting 7 games (almost a half season) last year, one should expect visual and tangible improvement.

People keep bringing up this off-season work, but what exactly does that mean? In the off-season the only receiver that JC worked with was Lloyd. Well guess what, Lloyd doesn't play.

In the pre-season, Moss was hobbled and he has missed a good amount of practice time during the season so the timing isn't there. No amount of off-season or pre-season work with Thrash is going to turn him into a viable receiving threat. Early on in the season it was obvious that JC had good timing with ARE and felt comfortable throwing to him, but with Moss not healthy and Thrash not being a threat, other teams double cover ARE. As for McCardell and Caldwell, they weren't here in the pre-season or off-season.

All excuses aside like o-line...dropped passes etc., show me where JC has demonstrated any marked improvement?

I think that JSPB22 covered this already. The only thing that I would add is that JC has improved his accuracy as well. Last season he completed 53.1% of his passes and this season he is completing 58.6%, and I think that number would be around 60% if it wasn't for all of the dropped passes.

As I said earlier, he has a tendency to stare down his intended target (dbacks do a lot of reading QB eyes) and he holds the ball too long.

All young qb's stare down their intended targets. It's a fact. However, JC has greatly improved in this area in my opinion. As for holding the ball too long, how many receivers do you see open? We have been running 2 receivers routes, no wonder JC doesn't have anybody to throw the ball to.

Considering the unbelievable amount of success on the ground Sunday, the inability to get the passing game going is pretty troubling.

We hardly threw the ball against the Jets. That's on Gibbs, not JC. We had plenty of opportunities to go play action but it wasn't called. It's no realistic to mainly allow a qb to throw on third down and expect a lot of success in the passing game.

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:With parity, especially in the NFC, no one should count us out this season.

Have to disagree here.
Green Bay 7-1
Dallas 7-1
Detroit - 6-2
NY Giants 6-2
Washington 5-3

The problem is two of these teams are from the NFC North and three of these teams are from the NFC East. With losses to both Green Bay and the NY Giants, Washington has to leapfrog at least two teams to be assured of a playoff berth. Impossible: No. Improbable: Yes, given the two teams Washington has to leapfrog, which both defeated the Redskins earlier this season. And Washington doesn't play two of the teams it would need to leapfrog again this season. Not to mention every NFC team ahead of the Redskins is on pace for a 12-4 or better season. The Redskins are not.

The Redskins just have to win, everything else will fall into place. If Washington, Green Bay and the Giants all win the next two weeks the above list would look like this:

Green Bay 9-1
NY Giants 8-2
Washington 7-3
TtiT 7-3
Detroit - 7-3

And Detroit, TtiT and the Packers all will still have to face each other

1niksder wrote:And Detroit, TtiT and the Packers all will still have to face each other

That may be the only saving grace ... somebody has to lose those games and we can only hope it's Ttit.

Shouldn't it be "ttiT?"

JSPB22 wrote:Shouldn't it be "ttiT?"

NO.

Neither the team name nor the state deserve any respect.

My condolences to TexasHog for having to live in perpetual Hell

CanesSkins26 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:I think this is Campbell's 3nd year actually. He was drafted in 2005 Spent 2005 on the bench behind Brunell and Ramsey....played in the 2006 preseason, and started halfway through 2006 season. So this is his third year with the Redskins and second year as a "starter". That's plenty enough time under center to not be considered a rookie, and after all of the hoopla about how much work he put in in the offseason, we should expect more tangible evidence that he is the real deal. He's been decent at times....flashes of great promise but never has had that "breakout" game.

Given the fact that we traded up to draft him in the 1st round of 2005, I think by midseason 2007, he should be delivering.

We've had countless "promises" from some of our big picks. Westbrook, Howard, Shuler, Ramsey.....and now Campbell. I began feeling good about Campbell early in the season after listening to all of the hype. Halfway through now, he's just not producing and I don't see him being anything more than a game manager.

The new NFL we find ourselves in with teams like the Pats, Colts, Cowboys scoring tons of points, you need a QB that can light the opposition up if you want to be competitive. I don't care how good you run the ball these days....the opposing defenses can stack the box and force you to beat them in the air.

Right now the Redskins have all of their eggs in one basket, and that basket looks pretty mediocre at the moment.

It's his third year, but he hasn't even started an entire season's worth of games, so experience wise he is basically a rookie. He didn't start practicing with the first string offense until the latter part of last season. Now he has a banged up line, no consistent running game, a hobbled #1 receiver, and James Thrash as his #3. Compare his numbers to other qb's in their first 15 games and you'll seeing that he is doing perfectly fine. It would be nice if he could turn into Peyton Manning overnight but that isn't realistic. A qb's development takes time.

I did. Why don't you? Try comparing him to Derek Anderson, who is in his third year also...only played in 5 games last year, and 8 games this year. Very comparable experience. Anderson is averaging 263 yards per game and has 17 TD's this season with the Browns, compared to JC's 190 yards and 6 TD's.

Want some more? OK Tony Romo played his first games of his career last season, so by your measure, he was a rookie. How about Roethlisberger in his true rookie season? Then there was Phillip Rivers....he only had 4 games under his belt at the start of 2006.

By comparison, JC is very mediocre to all of them.

JSPB22 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:In reality, there is a bit of digression insofar as a big decrease in TD's, increase in int's, and a lower QB rating compared to his numbers last year.....last year when the defense was playing much more poorly.

All excuses aside like o-line...dropped passes etc., show me where JC has demonstrated any marked improvement?

Are you serious? A QBs numbers are going to be inflated when the defense is playing poorly. He gets many more opportunities; he has to pass almost constantly because the team is behind. And you can't just brush aside the o-line injuries and dropped passes as if they are meaningless to this discussion. The INT he threw against the Jets was because he was hit as he threw the ball. But ignoring all of that, I have seen improvement from JC in the following areas:
1. Quickness of release.
2. Checking down to secondary and tertiary receivers.
3. Looking off defenders.
4. Scrambling for 1st downs when the opportunity presents itself.
5. Stepping up into the pocket and avoiding the rush.
6. Number of victories.

This whole post is patently ridiculous. First, EVERY team has dropped balls and injuries. Ya don't think TO drops a few of Romo's passes? This a excuse making, and nothing more. There is simply NO excuse for the lack of scoring on Sunday against a poor team when you run the ball for almost 300 YARDS!!

Secondly, when a defense is playing poorly, an offense gets LESS OPPORTUNITIES because they spend MORE time OFF the field. When you play from behind, you abandon the running game and throw more...this is true....but it's also true that defenses are able to play you much more effectively and agressively when they have a big LEAD, and they KNOW you are going to PASS.

I'd bet you right now, if Romo, or Brady, or Manning, or Favre was the Redskin QB, we'd magically have great wide recievers with 3 TD's a piece, and no one would be talking about dropped balls.

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:Shouldn't it be "ttiT?"

NO.

Neither the team name nor the state deserve any respect.

My condolences to TexasHog for having to live in perpetual Hell

I respected your opinion til you said this and revealed yourself to be a jackass. Some of the nicest people I've ever met are from Texas, and I'll take Houston over the entire DC suburbs ANY day.

old-timer wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:Shouldn't it be "ttiT?"

NO.

Neither the team name nor the state deserve any respect.

My condolences to TexasHog for having to live in perpetual Hell

I respected your opinion til you said this and revealed yourself to be a jackass. Some of the nicest people I've ever met are from Texas, and I'll take Houston over the entire DC suburbs ANY day.

Well, you've officially hurt my last feeling. I have no idea how I'll carry on without your approval of my opinion.
I also said nothing about the people.
And, for the record, I am not a Donkey.

RayNAustin wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:In reality, there is a bit of digression insofar as a big decrease in TD's, increase in int's, and a lower QB rating compared to his numbers last year.....last year when the defense was playing much more poorly.

All excuses aside like o-line...dropped passes etc., show me where JC has demonstrated any marked improvement?

Are you serious? A QBs numbers are going to be inflated when the defense is playing poorly. He gets many more opportunities; he has to pass almost constantly because the team is behind. And you can't just brush aside the o-line injuries and dropped passes as if they are meaningless to this discussion. The INT he threw against the Jets was because he was hit as he threw the ball. But ignoring all of that, I have seen improvement from JC in the following areas:
1. Quickness of release.
2. Checking down to secondary and tertiary receivers.
3. Looking off defenders.
4. Scrambling for 1st downs when the opportunity presents itself.
5. Stepping up into the pocket and avoiding the rush.
6. Number of victories.

This whole post is patently ridiculous.

Yes, I suppose it is ridiculous to try to disabuse you of your preconceived notions about JC with a direct response to your call for demonstrations of improvement.

RayNAustin wrote:First, EVERY team has dropped balls and injuries. Ya don't think TO drops a few of Romo's passes? This a excuse making, and nothing more.

You're right, every team has lost the entire right side of their offensive line. I only included the dropped balls, because you did.

RayNAustin wrote:There is simply NO excuse for the lack of scoring on Sunday against a poor team when you run the ball for almost 300 YARDS!!

I'm so tired of hearing about how every team we beat is no better than a high school JV squad. Every team in the NFL is good, and can win a game on any given Sunday. Any win, especially one on the road. is just as valid as any other. I can understand your frustration, but the bottom line is a W is a W. How easily could we have given up, down 17-3 on the road, especially after last week's blowout? Our team showed great heart. The defense played very well; but for Landry's drive-extending roughing penalty, they would have only given up six points. The game was not as close as the score indicated.

RayNAustin wrote:Secondly, when a defense is playing poorly, an offense gets LESS OPPORTUNITIES because they spend MORE time OFF the field.

That depends on how poorly they are playing. If the other team is scoring at will, the defense may only be on the field for short periods.

RayNAustin wrote:When you play from behind, you abandon the running game and throw more...this is true....but it's also true that defenses are able to play you much more effectively and agressively when they have a big LEAD, and they KNOW you are going to PASS.

That doesn't change the fact that offenses often put up big numbers in garbage time.

RayNAustin wrote:I'd bet you right now, if Romo, or Brady, or Manning, or Favre was the Redskin QB, we'd magically have great wide recievers with 3 TD's a piece, and no one would be talking about dropped balls.

OK let's bet. How are you going to prove your scenario? Maybe you should take this to the Fantasy forum. There you can carry out your magic act with por-tiz2skins.

old-timer wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:Shouldn't it be "ttiT?"

NO.

Neither the team name nor the state deserve any respect.

My condolences to TexasHog for having to live in perpetual Hell

I respected your opinion...

And I respected your opinion til you said this.
jk, GSPODS

JSPB22 wrote:I'm so tired of hearing about how every team we beat is no better than a high school JV squad. Every team in the NFL is good, and can win a game on any given Sunday. Any win, especially one on the road. is just as valid as any other. I can understand your frustration, but the bottom line is a W is a W. How easily could we have given up, down 17-3 on the road, especially after last week's blowout? Our team showed great heart. The defense played very well; but for Landry's drive-extending roughing penalty, they would have only given up six points. The game was not as close as the score indicated.

That's hilarious. You're very funny. That we were even down 17-3 to the Jets ought to be a concern. Of course I was thrilled to see them come back and win, but to run for 300 yards and score 1 TD is absurd, horrific offensive performance. Now you can assign blame for this on the o-line (the one's blocking for that 300 yards on the ground) if you want to, but it was our inability to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers in the red zone that was the true problem. Now you could blame the play calling, and a I might agree somewhat with that thought, but for WHATEVER reason, we cannot find a way to throw TD's. You choose to blame anything and everything for this EXCEPT the QB. That's where we disagree.

But now that we know what you are tired of hearing about, let me tell ya what I'm sick of hearing. I'm sick of hearing how things are improving. I"m sick of hearing that we are only a player or two away from.......

When in reality, this offense is just as pitiful as it was in 2004. We are predictable (playcalling stinks). Just keep an eye on situational play calling patterns....if I can guess right 75% of the time, I suspect that the opposing coaching staffs can do even better.

Apparently, everyone's CB's magically become Dion Sanders when they play the Redskins, and JC has no one open to throw to.....or our recievers are so stupid, they can't get open in ZONE coverages?

Apparently we need Randy Moss on the left, and TO on the right, and Steve Smith in the slot to give JC targets to throw to maybe?

Every Sunday, the highlight reels are filled with TD passes, except in Washington because we have injuries.....we have dropped balls....the freaking wind was blowing when we had the ball....our #1, #2 receivers are really not very good, and our #3 receiver shouldn't even be on the field.

Santana Moss and ARE would THRIVE with the Pats or Colts. Lloyde should be productive, but isn't, and he is being blamed for it even though he gets very few balls his way in the rare occasion he even gets on the field.

Why did we pick up Caldwell and McCardell if we aren't going to use them?

As for this "timming" thing with a QB and reciever.....apparently it's not a problem for Brady who has THREE new receivers the Pats picked up in the off season .

Excuses are like ______, everyone has one, and they all stink.

BTW, the departed David Patton has as many catches in NO so far this year as does Santana Moss. Patton has caught more passes this year from Brees than he did here in 2 years.

Apparently he learned how to get open in New England, forgot how to when he got to Washington, and then remembered again when he got to NO.

I did. Why don't you? Try comparing him to Derek Anderson, who is in his third year also...only played in 5 games last year, and 8 games this year. Very comparable experience. Anderson is averaging 263 yards per game and has 17 TD's this season with the Browns, compared to JC's 190 yards and 6 TD's.

Want some more? OK Tony Romo played his first games of his career last season, so by your measure, he was a rookie. How about Roethlisberger in his true rookie season? Then there was Phillip Rivers....he only had 4 games under his belt at the start of 2006.

By comparison, JC is very mediocre to all of them.

Here are JC's numbers through his first 15 NFL games:

2,817 yards, 56% completion percentage, 16 td's, 13 int's

Tom Brady's number through his first 15 games:
2,843 yards, 63.9% completion percentage, 18 td's, 12 int's....and he took 41 sacks that season (how many people would complain now that he holds onto the ball too long??)

Ben Rothlesberger's stats through his first 14 games:
2,621 yards, 66.4 % completion percentage, 17 td's, 11 int's

Carson Palmer's first 13 games:
2,897 yards, 60.9% completion percentage, 18 td's, 18 int's

Drew Brees' first 16 games:
3,284 yards, 60.8% completion percentage, 17 td's, 16 td's

And just for the hell of it, John Elways stats through his first 11 games:
1,663 yards, 47.5% completion percentage, 7 td's, 14 int's

So, overally JC is doing perfectly fine through his first 15 games.

I'm too lazy to compare the stats, but Campbell looks better than Rypien did in his second year of often-starting. Not by much, because Rypien was pretty good. Campbell is better than Schroeder was, and much better than Humphries. Schroeder, Rypien, and Humphries are the only really good young QB's the Redskins have had since the Skins traded Norm Snead for Sonny Jurgensen, and that was a long, long time ago.

One more than small item of note: Schroeder and Rypien each time slipped into the controls of one of the top five teams in the NFL. Schroeder is famous for having completed his first pass for about 45 yards against the Giants, but guess who caught it? Art Monk, as best I remember. I think Gary Clark and Clint Didier also ran pass routes on the play, unless Gibbs had switched Rickie Sanders into the game. Other than ey/Didier, is there anyone on the current team who is better than Schroeder's other receivers?

Added small Jay S note: who were his RB's? They had Riggins (slowing down), George Rogers, and Kelvin Bryant.

And who blocked? (Hint: this board is named to honor a unit called...)

To repeat: the only young Redskin QB's who can match Campbell played inside one of the best half-dozen teams in the NFL.

**

A few more notes:

- the Redskins ran deep and Campbell looked long many times when he ended up throwing short. The WR's usually were covered. That's both Moss and ARE.

- McCardell was in for many plays, but the Redskins ran on almost every one. Personally, I'd like to see Keenan McC get more pass plays, too

- The Redskins won.

Let's not forget Trent Green, 1998 when he threw 23 TD's and 11 ints in his first 15 games.......he also took 49 sacks that year for the REDSKINS.

CanesSkin26, you may want to try to convince somebody else that left is really right, and down is really up....but it won't work with me.

My point (which I'm beginning to believe you purposely ignore because it is inconvenient) is THIS YEAR, JC is on course for finishing the year with 12 TD's. His stats THIS YEAR are poorer than MB's stats were last year when he was benched. Many here bad mouthed Brunell in 2005 when he threw 23 TD's, over 3,000 yards and 58%.

In 2004 Brunell looked awful. In 9 games he threw 7 TD's and everyone wanted him hung, fired, tarred and feathered and then released. This year, Campbell's numbers aren't much better than that.

In 2005 Santana Moss was 2nd overall in the entire NFL in receiving. Now, all of a sudden, he isn't a real #1.....and we need better receivers? JC doesn't have anyone to throw to? That's total bull. There are always opportunities, and there is someone open on almost every play. The great QB's find them, and the average QB's don't. Right now, JC isn't finding them.

That is a fact, not my opinion. The comparative stats you presented do not change the fact that right out of the cradle last year, JC's numbers were better for his first 7 starts than they are this year for 8 games. The only reason the Redskins aren't 2-6 or 1 -7 this year is because of the defense and in SPITE of the offense, or lack thereof. You may see this as "perfectly fine" but I see it as just another promising year being pissed away.

This perfectly fine level of performance won't cut it in the NFC east, and will leave us fighting Philly for last place instead of fighting Dallas for 1st place. I guess that's perfectly fine too.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I did. Why don't you? Try comparing him to Derek Anderson, who is in his third year also...only played in 5 games last year, and 8 games this year. Very comparable experience. Anderson is averaging 263 yards per game and has 17 TD's this season with the Browns, compared to JC's 190 yards and 6 TD's.

Want some more? OK Tony Romo played his first games of his career last season, so by your measure, he was a rookie. How about Roethlisberger in his true rookie season? Then there was Phillip Rivers....he only had 4 games under his belt at the start of 2006.

By comparison, JC is very mediocre to all of them.

Here are JC's numbers through his first 15 NFL games:

2,817 yards, 56% completion percentage, 16 td's, 13 int's

Tom Brady's number through his first 15 games:
2,843 yards, 63.9% completion percentage, 18 td's, 12 int's....and he took 41 sacks that season (how many people would complain now that he holds onto the ball too long??)

Ben Rothlesberger's stats through his first 14 games:
2,621 yards, 66.4 % completion percentage, 17 td's, 11 int's

Carson Palmer's first 13 games:
2,897 yards, 60.9% completion percentage, 18 td's, 18 int's

Drew Brees' first 16 games:
3,284 yards, 60.8% completion percentage, 17 td's, 16 td's

And just for the hell of it, John Elways stats through his first 11 games:
1,663 yards, 47.5% completion percentage, 7 td's, 14 int's

So, overally JC is doing perfectly fine through his first 15 games.

Hey don't forget Quincy Carter through his first 16 stars had a 7-8 record (Aikman 1-14) 54% comp 2500yds 13td 15int. Yet Cowboys fans wanted to shoot Quincy after every loss, while Troy had the whole city behind him like "Give him time, we'll be alright..." Wonder what Quincy could've accomplished with a little support from the fan base... JC has that support more/less, so with some good health up front, expect him to make many Skins fans happy.

In 2005 Santana Moss was 2nd overall in the entire NFL in receiving. Now, all of a sudden, he isn't a real #1.....and we need better receivers?

You're really slow to process information, aren't you? What part of "MOSS IS INJURED" do you not understand? He missed lots of practice time during the preseason and has not been practicing very much during the season. He had an injured groin and now he has an injured heel. In fact, he was kept out of practice once again today. Anybody that has watched Moss in the past can see that he isn't 100% and doesn't have the same burst of speed that he does when healthy. It's also rather obvious that he and JC don't have their timing down, and Gibbs confirmed that yesterday on his radio show. I'm sure that his lack of practice time has also played a roll in his dropped pass.

ARE has also been slowed by injuries. His hamstring isn't 100% and now he's being double covered.

As for Thrash, can you name a worse #3 receiver in the NFL?

RayNAustin wrote:My point (which I'm beginning to believe you purposely ignore because it is inconvenient) is THIS YEAR, JC is on course for finishing the year with 12 TD's. His stats THIS YEAR are poorer than MB's stats were last year when he was benched. Many here bad mouthed Brunell in 2005 when he threw 23 TD's, over 3,000 yards and 58%.

In 2004 Brunell looked awful. In 9 games he threw 7 TDs and everyone wanted him hung, fired, tarred and feathered and then released. This year, Campbell's numbers aren't much better than that.

Are you really comparing MB, a 14 year veteran and starter of 157 games, to JC in his 3rd year having started less than one tenth as many games? Can you really not understand why people would be less satisfied with MB's performance than JC's at this point in their careers? Wow, Caneskins was right about the speed with which you process information.

welch wrote:I'm too lazy to compare the stats, but Campbell looks better than Rypien did in his second year of often-starting. Not by much, because Rypien was pretty good.

Rypien's second year starting stats are:

14 games 280 comp 476 atmp 58.8% 3768 yards 7.9 y/a 22 td 13 int
and a Probowl selections

His first year as a starter:
9 games 114 comp 208 atmp 54.4% 1730 yards 8.3 y/a 18 td 13 int

This is really an irrelevant comparasion, because the team Ryp played on was infinately better than the one Campbell has around him.

The Hogs vs "the backups"!
The Posse vs Moss, ARE, Thrash
- Moss is comparable to Clark, but not as good
- ARE is close to Sanders, but still lacking
- Thrash, well I don't know who the Skins #4 guy was in 89
but even if you say Moss and ARE are just as good as Clark and Sanders, that still leaves you without a "Monk" AND THAT IS WHAT THIS TEAM IS REALLY MISSING!