The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Victory is a noble, team concept. Darth Brady and The Emperor have completely lost touch with that. When victory has already been secured, and you are still frantically trying to compile more and more yards and points for no purpose other than your own stat-line, angrily inflicting further humiliation on an inferior opponent, that is cowardly, not admirable.

Especially when you start screaming swear words at your lineman (who has been busting his butt all game to keep you from getting smashed to the ground by 300 pound men) because he flinched, and now you have a slightly more difficult TD to make-- at this point you have crossed over completely into The Dark Side, where your own self-glorification is shamelessly broadcast as your motivating force, where your team has secured an overpowering victory but instead of feeling joy and celebrating with your teammates, you lash out at them, feeling anger that during the coming week you might only be able to watch everyone in the sports media endlessly hyping and praising your outstanding performance, instead of outright WORSHIPPING you and proclaiming you the greatest QB to ever live.

This is the type of behavior you see with serious, clinically disturbed individuals. This is the type of attitude you see constantly with these evil dictators who demand to be deified by their population. No, I am not suggesting the New England Shame's behavior is remotely comparable in "seriousness" to the acts some of those people commit, I am simply pointing out the fact that it is rooted in the same type of mentality.

The most ironic thing is that by racking up the stats in this manner, Brady is actually making his stats MEANINGLESS, irrelevant, incapable of being seriously revered-- because they are being obtained in such a cheap manner compared to anyone he would be competing with. Nobody else in the upper echelon of NFL Passing stats has been pathological enough to pursue that goal at the expense of all character. Since most teams/players choose instead to show respect to their opponent (and themselves) by refusing to run up the score, the stats that are in the history books were at least mostly earned in at-least-remotely-meaningful portions of football games. You want to tell me Peyton Manning couldn't have tossed another TD pass or 3 in some of his games over the past several years? He's been in games he could probably have thrown 10 if he felt like leaving his soul on the field.

the 2nd cowboys game of 2005, we could have beaten them 84-0 if we really wanted to, and everyone here knows it. but what purpose would that have served? to humiliate them to the point where all they could think about until next year was finding a way to get revenge? aside from being megalomaniacal, running up the score is poor strategy from a strictly Wins and Losses perspective. it's extremely foolish to give your opponent extra motivation for a future game, once you've already vanquished them.

the New England Shame has every right to play the game however they want to. but i/we have every right to call them like we see them.

JansenFan wrote:It's not one particular play. It's the combination of them all. Going for it on fourth when you a chip shot field goal away from a 41 point lead, after throwing deep to Moss, then going for it on fourth again with a 45 point lead. It's not just playing offense, it's going out of your way to humiliate your opponent. It's not that they won 52-7, its how they got to 52. There is no X number that's too much. It's how you handle yourself.

Well, to be cliched about it, I think those of you who side with JF (and I do see some merit to that stance) are going to have to agree to disagree with those of us who do not. To me, LOTS to LITTLE is fine, as long as you abide by the rules, regardless of who does it and I think it's a tiny bit disingenuous to say "well, our big win was OK while their big win was not." To me, either you are comfortable winning/losing big or you aren't. But, we ain't gonna have a meeting of the minds on this one and I can live with that.

die cowboys die wrote:Victory is a noble, team concept. Darth Brady and The Emperor have completely lost touch with that. When victory has already been secured, and you are still frantically trying to compile more and more yards and points for no purpose other than your own stat-line, angrily inflicting further humiliation on an inferior opponent, that is cowardly, not admirable.

Especially when you start screaming swear words at your lineman (who has been busting his butt all game to keep you from getting smashed to the ground by 300 pound men) because he flinched, and now you have a slightly more difficult TD to make-- at this point you have crossed over completely into The Dark Side, where your own self-glorification is shamelessly broadcast as your motivating force, where your team has secured an overpowering victory but instead of feeling joy and celebrating with your teammates, you lash out at them, feeling anger that during the coming week you might only be able to watch everyone in the sports media endlessly hyping and praising your outstanding performance, instead of outright WORSHIPPING you and proclaiming you the greatest QB to ever live.

This is the type of behavior you see with serious, clinically disturbed individuals. This is the type of attitude you see constantly with these evil dictators who demand to be deified by their population. No, I am not suggesting the New England Shame's behavior is remotely comparable in "seriousness" to the acts some of those people commit, I am simply pointing out the fact that it is rooted in the same type of mentality.

The most ironic thing is that by racking up the stats in this manner, Brady is actually making his stats MEANINGLESS, irrelevant, incapable of being seriously revered-- because they are being obtained in such a cheap manner compared to anyone he would be competing with. Nobody else in the upper echelon of NFL Passing stats has been pathological enough to pursue that goal at the expense of all character. Since most teams/players choose instead to show respect to their opponent (and themselves) by refusing to run up the score, the stats that are in the history books were at least mostly earned in at-least-remotely-meaningful portions of football games. You want to tell me Peyton Manning couldn't have tossed another TD pass or 3 in some of his games over the past several years? He's been in games he could probably have thrown 10 if he felt like leaving his soul on the field.

the 2nd cowboys game of 2005, we could have beaten them 84-0 if we really wanted to, and everyone here knows it. but what purpose would that have served? to humiliate them to the point where all they could think about until next year was finding a way to get revenge? aside from being megalomaniacal, running up the score is poor strategy from a strictly Wins and Losses perspective. it's extremely foolish to give your opponent extra motivation for a future game, once you've already vanquished them.

WORD UP! Yea! what he said.

Fios wrote: as long as you abide by the rules.

But the Patriots didn't, did they? And they got a huge fine, and lost a draft pick because of it. But from what I'm reading, THAT's their big motivation for this season - to prove they're the best, and their prior championships aren't tainted. To me, that's just arrogant - they got busted for a CLEAR rules violation, and instead of being humbled, they're angry because they got caught? They think the league unfairly targeted them? How arrogant is that? I guess the rules don't apply to NE, at least in their own minds.

Much of the love for Gibbs among Redskins fans is based not just on his winning, but how he won - honestly, with class and humility. Would the fans here love him as much if we found out he cheated - tried to pay off the refs or steal signals or something? I doubt it. And why do we all hate Parcells, even if he's a successful coach? I can't speak for others, but I've always disliked how he operated in such a classless manner, calling out his players in public, belittling reports in press conferences, etc. And didn't it come out that he was negotiating to work for a new team while preparing his old team for the Super Bowl?!?! Classless, all the way.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but it's not just about winning - it's also about how you win.

Fios wrote:

JansenFan wrote:It's not one particular play. It's the combination of them all. Going for it on fourth when you a chip shot field goal away from a 41 point lead, after throwing deep to Moss, then going for it on fourth again with a 45 point lead. It's not just playing offense, it's going out of your way to humiliate your opponent. It's not that they won 52-7, its how they got to 52. There is no X number that's too much. It's how you handle yourself.

Well, to be cliched about it, I think those of you who side with JF (and I do see some merit to that stance) are going to have to agree to disagree with those of us who do not. To me, LOTS to LITTLE is fine, as long as you abide by the rules, regardless of who does it and I think it's a tiny bit disingenuous to say "well, our big win was OK while their big win was not." To me, either you are comfortable winning/losing big or you aren't. But, we ain't gonna have a meeting of the minds on this one and I can live with that.

Those of you on the "yes, running up the score" side of this equation will appreciate this: I just chatted with a co-worker who is a huge Pats fan, I told him about this thread, to which he said: "Yeah, there's gonna be some karmic payback for that. I have this feeling Brady is going to get hit by a bus."

Fios wrote:

Fios wrote:

JansenFan wrote:It's not one particular play. It's the combination of them all. Going for it on fourth when you a chip shot field goal away from a 41 point lead, after throwing deep to Moss, then going for it on fourth again with a 45 point lead. It's not just playing offense, it's going out of your way to humiliate your opponent. It's not that they won 52-7, its how they got to 52. There is no X number that's too much. It's how you handle yourself.

Well, to be cliched about it, I think those of you who side with JF (and I do see some merit to that stance) are going to have to agree to disagree with those of us who do not. To me, LOTS to LITTLE is fine, as long as you abide by the rules, regardless of who does it and I think it's a tiny bit disingenuous to say "well, our big win was OK while their big win was not." To me, either you are comfortable winning/losing big or you aren't. But, we ain't gonna have a meeting of the minds on this one and I can live with that.

Those of you on the "yes, running up the score" side of this equation will appreciate this: I just chatted with a co-worker who is a huge Pats fan, I told him about this thread, to which he said: "Yeah, there's gonna be some karmic payback for that. I have this feeling Brady is going to get hit by a bus."

Frankly, if I were a defensive coordinator for some sorry, no-chance team like the Jets and the Dolphins, I'd just say heck with it, blitz the house. Just tell every guy to head for Brady. It's not like those teams are going to win anyway, so a coach might as well let the players have a little fun out there. If Belicheat is going to spit at karma, might as well help karma spit back.

LOL.. look, all I'm saying is that I do wish we ran up the score and if it came back to bite us on the you know what, so be it. I just think its hipocritical *spelling* to hope we do it to one team and its another thing when its done to us.

I think we can ALL agree that we need to regroup and take it out on the Jets who are struggling right now. Also, if we have a lead by 21 or 30 or 35 points and they come back and beat us, lets see how many people will say we shoulda ran it up more.

Mursilis wrote:

Fios wrote:Well, to be cliched about it, I think those of you who side with JF (and I do see some merit to that stance) are going to have to agree to disagree with those of us who do not. To me, LOTS to LITTLE is fine, as long as you abide by the rules, regardless of who does it and I think it's a tiny bit disingenuous to say "well, our big win was OK while their big win was not." To me, either you are comfortable winning/losing big or you aren't. But, we ain't gonna have a meeting of the minds on this one and I can live with that.

Those of you on the "yes, running up the score" side of this equation will appreciate this: I just chatted with a co-worker who is a huge Pats fan, I told him about this thread, to which he said: "Yeah, there's gonna be some karmic payback for that. I have this feeling Brady is going to get hit by a bus."

Frankly, if I were a defensive coordinator for some sorry, no-chance team like the Jets and the Dolphins, I'd just say heck with it, blitz the house. Just tell every guy to head for Brady. It's not like those teams are going to win anyway, so a coach might as well let the players have a little fun out there. If Belicheat is going to spit at karma, might as well help karma spit back.[/quote]

You can add Randall Godfrey to the Not A Belichick Fan Club:

"I said something to (Belichick) after the game," Godfrey said to NBCSports.com. "I told him, 'You need to show some respect for the game.' You just don't do that. I don't care how bad it is. You're up 35 points and you're still throwing deep? That's no respect....

They wanted to prove a point, that no matter how good a defense is, they will score and score often. I have no problems with that, what are they gonna do, kick a field goal???

Our defense tried, but even before the half they were done, hell, I was done too. They stopped them when they could, got a TO at a crucial time, but what do they do, they GIVE IT BACK. After that all hopes were done. I mean they tried slugged it out, but after seeing an Offense (if you can call it that) sputter, and there you go out there again, you pretty much look at each other and say we are screwed gentlemen. All we see are "Potential" or "Promise" on the Offensive side of the ball, when are they going to put it all together. When are they going to rise up against adversity. I'm not only talking about the Pats game I'm talking about the last 3 games. This is ridiculous, these are pro-athletes getting paid big bucks. The Defense does it every game, they find a way to work with what they got, hell, they even made "Los a decent corner with improvement on every game. Maybe I'm Dis illusioned, I knew it was a long shot to win this week, but to field an offense that looked like crap, is inexcusible. I at least expected us to be respectable in defeat, not a punchline for the week that we did. I'm usually Mr. Bright-side, but dang, get some freakin 1st downs Offense!

Mursilis wrote:

Fios wrote:

Fios wrote:

JansenFan wrote:It's not one particular play. It's the combination of them all. Going for it on fourth when you a chip shot field goal away from a 41 point lead, after throwing deep to Moss, then going for it on fourth again with a 45 point lead. It's not just playing offense, it's going out of your way to humiliate your opponent. It's not that they won 52-7, its how they got to 52. There is no X number that's too much. It's how you handle yourself.

Well, to be cliched about it, I think those of you who side with JF (and I do see some merit to that stance) are going to have to agree to disagree with those of us who do not. To me, LOTS to LITTLE is fine, as long as you abide by the rules, regardless of who does it and I think it's a tiny bit disingenuous to say "well, our big win was OK while their big win was not." To me, either you are comfortable winning/losing big or you aren't. But, we ain't gonna have a meeting of the minds on this one and I can live with that.

Those of you on the "yes, running up the score" side of this equation will appreciate this: I just chatted with a co-worker who is a huge Pats fan, I told him about this thread, to which he said: "Yeah, there's gonna be some karmic payback for that. I have this feeling Brady is going to get hit by a bus."

Frankly, if I were a defensive coordinator for some sorry, no-chance team like the Jets and the Dolphins, I'd just say heck with it, blitz the house. Just tell every guy to head for Brady. It's not like those teams are going to win anyway, so a coach might as well let the players have a little fun out there. If Belicheat is going to spit at karma, might as well help karma spit back.

So,,, you'd respond to a team who was playing by the rules and simply trying to do what offenses are supposed to do, i,e, score, (BTW someone should tell the Skins offensive coordinator that) by trying to intentionally hurt another player. Geez, I can see how someone like you would have his panties in a knot. Talk about class?

capetide wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

Fios wrote:

Fios wrote:

JansenFan wrote:It's not one particular play. It's the combination of them all. Going for it on fourth when you a chip shot field goal away from a 41 point lead, after throwing deep to Moss, then going for it on fourth again with a 45 point lead. It's not just playing offense, it's going out of your way to humiliate your opponent. It's not that they won 52-7, its how they got to 52. There is no X number that's too much. It's how you handle yourself.

Well, to be cliched about it, I think those of you who side with JF (and I do see some merit to that stance) are going to have to agree to disagree with those of us who do not. To me, LOTS to LITTLE is fine, as long as you abide by the rules, regardless of who does it and I think it's a tiny bit disingenuous to say "well, our big win was OK while their big win was not." To me, either you are comfortable winning/losing big or you aren't. But, we ain't gonna have a meeting of the minds on this one and I can live with that.

Those of you on the "yes, running up the score" side of this equation will appreciate this: I just chatted with a co-worker who is a huge Pats fan, I told him about this thread, to which he said: "Yeah, there's gonna be some karmic payback for that. I have this feeling Brady is going to get hit by a bus."

Frankly, if I were a defensive coordinator for some sorry, no-chance team like the Jets and the Dolphins, I'd just say heck with it, blitz the house. Just tell every guy to head for Brady. It's not like those teams are going to win anyway, so a coach might as well let the players have a little fun out there. If Belicheat is going to spit at karma, might as well help karma spit back.

So,,, you'd respond to a team who was playing by the rules and simply trying to do what offenses are supposed to do, i,e, score, (BTW someone should tell the Skins offensive coordinator that) by trying to intentionally hurt another player. Geez, I can see how someone like you would have his panties in a knot. Talk about class?

In the NFL, you're allowed to sack the QB. NE did it several times, in fact.

Wait a sec now.. I don't think any of us really wants players to get hurt but seeing S. Taylor flying through the air towards Brady or any other QB for that matter would be a great thing right?

Were we not going to let the Pats receivers "PAY" when they got the ball in the center of the field???

Why did we not go for Brady's with a perfectly legal and tough sack?

If we did not like what their offense was doing, why did we show up to the game without one?

Fellow posters:

IT IS ABOUT US!!! Do not lay blame outside. There are ALL kinds of classy and classless people in the NFL.

I would rather very much discuss CLASS from the point of view of the one that handed a good WHUPPPIN' and not whether the other side was merciful enough or not.

I hope we all feel embarrassed. I hope the TEAM feel enormously embarrassed. Thanks BB. I am grateful for putting us i this postion to play the rest of the season with salt in the wounds.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I hope we all feel embarrassed. I hope the TEAM feel enormously embarrassed. Thanks BB. I am grateful for putting us i this postion to play the rest of the season with salt in the wounds.

Not that it's going to make much difference.

Mursilis wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:I hope we all feel embarrassed. I hope the TEAM feel enormously embarrassed. Thanks BB. I am grateful for putting us i this postion to play the rest of the season with salt in the wounds.

Not that it's going to make much difference.

Man I so badly want to argue that point but until I see a reason to, I'm sadly inclined to agree.

Fios wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:I hope we all feel embarrassed. I hope the TEAM feel enormously embarrassed. Thanks BB. I am grateful for putting us i this postion to play the rest of the season with salt in the wounds.

Not that it's going to make much difference.

Man I so badly want to argue that point but until I see a reason to, I'm sadly inclined to agree.

It will only take six more -LOOOONG- days. But it will come.

Fios wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:I hope we all feel embarrassed. I hope the TEAM feel enormously embarrassed. Thanks BB. I am grateful for putting us i this postion to play the rest of the season with salt in the wounds.

Not that it's going to make much difference.

Man I so badly want to argue that point but until I see a reason to, I'm sadly inclined to agree.

Too true. There's been more than enough embarrassment to go around the past ten years. But some of these players have short memories, so you never know...

To be honest, I was cheering for the Pats when they were handing it to Dallas, but even I took a step back when they were driving for yet another touchdown (even though they were WAY ahead) with :30 seconds left in the game.

I never like seeing a team get intentionally annihilated.

Returning a fumble or an interception for a TD is not intentional.

Calling deep route passing plays, and going for it on fourth down is intentional. Going for it on fourth when you're well within field goal range is absolutely intentional. At that point you are only doing it to be insulting. There is no other reason for it.

Vince Lombardi stated that if you carry a 28 point lead into the fourth quarter you will win the game. So far, he has never been proven wrong. Only once has a team scored 35 points in the fourth, but they weren't down by 28. No team has scored more than 35 points in a single quarter.

I could understand if we had done anything that even remotely threatend their lead, but we were blanked. Our score was zero. Nobody said he should have benched his defenders, but he should have called the dogs off on offense.

Bottom line is that it wouldn't have mattered, even if they had beat us 38-7 they still would have won, it's just the insult to injury of rolling more points on when they were obviously unecessary.

CanesSkins26 wrote:This running up the score stuff is nonsense. This is the NFL not Pee Wee football. If our players didn't like it maybe they should've done something to stop it. The Patriots play hard from start to finish and stay aggressive all throughout the game. Like Greg Williams said in post game, a good team keeps playing hard. The bottom line is that the offense is paid to score and the defense is paid to stop them. The Patriots earned their money today. The Redskins players didn't. If Gibbs had more of an aggressive approach we would probably be 6-1 right now instead of 4-3. Our players complaining about what the Pats did just sounds like sour grapes to me. Not only did we get blown out but now our players sound like sore losers.

That about covers it.

JLC wrote:There's no crying in football. You get your butt kicked like that, all you can do is suck it up.

I echo the 'no' sentiment and can't agree enough with "Don't like it? Then stop 'em."

Someone else on extremeskins posted this reminder of how Gibbs himself used to act when he had a commanding lead. In the 1991 season opener against the Lions, Washington was ahead 45-0 late in the fourth, and the 'skins had the ball on first down at the Detroit 1. Anyone here thing the '91 'skins couldn't punch it in from the 1 with four downs to do it? Instead, Gibbs had Rypien take 4 straight kneel-downs. Could Gibbs have scored? Yes. Should he have scored? No. Joe Gibbs = total class. Bill Belicheat = total lack of class. End of story.

RedskinsFreak wrote:I echo the 'no' sentiment and can't agree enough with "Don't like it? Then stop 'em."

I suppose, if you were a boxer, you would keep hitting a guy that was out cold, laying on the ropes, if the ref didn't step in?

If you answer yes to this you need to have your morale compass calibrated!

I disagree, your referring more to Haynesworth as opposed to a team playing a game and running up the score. Its not the same thing.

I thought Profootball Weekly had the best spin on the Pats scoring. It makes a lot of sense.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NF ... 102907.htm

1) The Patriots are, in fact, running up the score.
2) They are trying to embarrass every team along the way.
3) They’re doing a darn fine job of it.

According to Patriots insiders, the team is so furious over the negative publicity it garnered in the wake of “Spygate” that it wants to leave an iron-clad legacy that it is the greatest team in the history of the game. No lead is large enough. No opponent is demoralized enough. No record is out of reach. Essentially, the Patriots have deemed risking injury to their star players and drawing the ire of opposing teams a risk worth taking in search of achieving a level of excellence never seen before on the gridiron.

While only its coach was deemed guilty of videotaping signals of the opposition, the entire team has forged a sense of solidarity in a quest for perfection. And in a way, it makes sense. After all, Belichick’s unsavory actions gave a black eye to the entire organization, not just the coaching staff.

You don't hear anybody talking about Bellicheat or videotapes much anymore, do you?

I suppose, if you were a boxer, you would keep hitting a guy that was out cold, laying on the ropes, if the ref didn't step in?

Bad analogy... if you have watched enough boxing, you have noticed that they, in fact, DO NOT stop punching until the ref steps in. Sooo... if he were a boxer, that is exactly what he'd do.

If you answer yes to this you need to have your morale compass calibrated!

That you'd use the term "morale" (I assume you meant moral) "compass" in describing a boxing decision is certainly interesting... if not bizarre...

To consider morality when discussing a sport where the objective is to induce acute cerebral cortical insult is hard to reconcile...