The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

CT, Methinks you are correct on this point.

Thanks... we do have one common opponent... how did we fare against the Dolphins? I don't recall the same "It's obvious who is going to win this" feeling through the entire game, when it was us playing them...

Countertrey wrote:

CT, Methinks you are correct on this point.

Thanks... we do have one common opponent... how did we fare against the Dolphins? I don't recall the same "It's obvious who is going to win this" feeling through the entire game, when it was us playing them...

I also don't recall the oddsmakers giving the Redskins 16 points in the Miami game. I believe it was 3 points.

Countertrey wrote:

These posts are killing me. I haven't seen anyone say they suck, and I haven't seen anyone say they aren't good. Prove it if you think so.

Smarten up. This whole thread is premised on the statement that the Patriots offense is "over rated". I'm saying that is ludicrous. They are, statistically and based on performance, the best in the league. They did the same thing to Dallas, one of the best defenses in the league, that they have done to the more mundane teams. They are NOT over rated.

What's your problem? Your above statement is based on an erroneous premise.

Ok your proof is they did the same agianst the Cowpies. But the Cowpies Pass defense is raked 15th. Ummm...... 15th is not a top 5. Its just not no matter how you look at it.

Brady passed for 5 TDs on the Cowpies, 15th raked passing defense.
Brady passed for 3 TDs on the G-mens, 13th raked passing defense.

Thats IS a difference in how many TDs he passed for, so their is proof that they can't and don't do the same thing to every team they play.

Now the Cowpies do have a better D than Miami. He passed for 6 on Miami.

In the Cowpies game they were only down 14-7 at the half. Then after half time the Pats scored again and its obvious the Boys gave up after that. Then, they added more points, and the Boys O broke down too.

Why because of the mystic that goes with how they view the Pats as being unbeatable.

Now look at Miami who suck. The Pats scored 14 in the first quarter and 28 in the second quarter and went into half time with 42 points.

There is a BIG difference in how they play against better teams. Brady had an 84 compleation % against Miami and 64% against Boys.

Point proven. Your point that they played Dallas at 15th means nothing because they are a 15th rated pass D NOT A TOP 5.

If they could play the same against good Ds, He would have scored 6 against the G-men too, but he only scored 3. And our D is way better than the G-men. The G-men are 13th we are 3rd. If the G-men can hold him to 3, how many could we hold him to?

What more is there to friggin say??? LOL

I love the Pats, primarily because I love dynasties (excecpt the cows) and they are an AFC team. Our boyz got a great chance in proving the nation wrong because our defense is getting some great stuff from Kennedy Street and Hobart.. (LOL.. if you don't know what I'm talking about, just don't even worry).. Offense, well, I've made some phone calls and they seem to be on some other s**t! LOL

We'll be fine my people, our defense will keep that nuclear offense of them very modest and we just need our offense to get the ball down the field. Rink & Dink passes over the middle or to the sides will do me just fine. That'll setup the big BOOM down the field to one of our many WR's. I'm still gunnin for dat 5WR set though.. I always say it, Moss/ARE/Cauldwell/McCardell/Lloyd/Trash/Cooley/Betts/Portis- we have alot of guys who can play reciever and I know SOMEBODY will have to be open.

As for Pats being overrated? I've read ALOT of stuff about this and I personally don't think they are overrated. It's my own fault of course but I do remember last year when this same T. Brady fella had average/mediocre recievers at best and they almost got to the big game. Now with R. Moss (one of my favorite recievers for years now), the often overlooked D. Stallworth, and the "who is this guy" Wes Welker, they seem to be just what Brady needed. Don't forget Ben Watson and that other Brady fella (TE), and a couple pretty decent RB's who get happy by gaining 1 yard at a time. Also in the mix is a top 5 defense and good special teams (ha! our Skins still have better D), and to top it off, they have 1 hell of a coaching staff. They are a powerhouse indeed and I don't give a crap what anyone says. If we are to compare them to the Colts, they are a mirror team, hands down. Position for position, they are equal. So lets stop comparing them.

No, our offense isn't as strong as there's. No, our QB isn't slanging the ball anywhere he wants. No our Oline isn't as beasty. So? What it will boil down too is our coaching staff. I've given up on our coaches. In my perfect world, let JC just call all the damn plays himself since he's the one piloting the team. Hell, how much worse can our offense do?

At the beginning of the year when I saw our schedule I had this game as a loss for our Skins. I'd love to eat my fat words. Please coaches, just show the nation that we are a deserving 4-2 and we can shoot it out with the best of them.

Go Skins !!!!!!!!!

But the Cowpies Pass defense is raked 15th.

LOL! You seriously don't think the game against the Patriots hurt Dallas' defensive stats? Where were they BEFORE they played the Pats? Hmmmmmmm?

Look, I'm stuck up here in NE. I watch this team. It's not just that they are beating these defenses... Dude. They aren't even trying hard. They remind me of the 91 'skins (I'm sure that there were plenty of jealous doubters calling them over rated, as well). They are scary good.

Some more stats to prove that the Patriots offense is byproduct of the teams they've played. Just look at Derek Anderson, Qb for the Cleveland Browns.

In his first NFL start in Week 2 he played Cincinnati. Anderson threw for 328 yds, 5 TDs, and a 121.0 passer rating. Two weeks later the Pats Played the Bengals and Brady could only manage 231 passing yards, 3 TDs, and a 115.0 passer rating. Cleveland put up 51 against the Bengals, New England could only manage 34!

Then in week 6 Anderson went against Miami. His stats, a 73% completion percentage, 3 TDs, a 142.5 passer rating, and 41 points scored. The next week New England played Miami and Brady had an 84% completion average, 6 TDs, and a 158 passer rating, scoring 49 points.

Is it just me or against the same competition are Tom Brady and Derek Anderson's stats identical!? Anderson played a little better against Cincinatti and Brady played a little better against Miami. This just proves how bad the defenses that the Pats have been playing really are! Please, a guy starting for the first time in his career is just as good!

The other four games this year Anderson has had to play four very good defenses in Pittsburg, Oakland, Baltimore, and New England while Brady has played nobody. Maybe if Anderson had a chance to play the Bills, Jets, etc... as well he would be setting the records right now!?!? People are saying Brady's stats look like a college QB. Maybe that's because he's playing college calibre defenses.

hkHog wrote:Some more stats to prove that the Patriots offense is byproduct of the teams they've played. Just look at Derek Anderson, Qb for the Cleveland Browns.

In his first NFL start in Week 2 he played Cincinnati. Anderson threw for 328 yds, 5 TDs, and a 121.0 passer rating. Two weeks later the Pats Played the Bengals and Brady could only manage 231 passing yards, 3 TDs, and a 115.0 passer rating. Cleveland put up 51 against the Bengals, New England could only manage 34!

Then in week 6 Anderson went against Miami. His stats, a 73% completion percentage, 3 TDs, a 142.5 passer rating, and 41 points scored. The next week New England played Miami and Brady had an 84% completion average, 6 TDs, and a 158 passer rating, scoring 49 points.

Is it just me or against the same competition are Tom Brady and Derek Anderson's stats identical!? Anderson played a little better against Cincinatti and Brady played a little better against Miami. This just proves how bad the defenses that the Pats have been playing really are! Please, a guy starting for the first time in his career is just as good!

The other four games this year Anderson has had to play four very good defenses in Pittsburg, Oakland, Baltimore, and New England while Brady has played nobody. Maybe if Anderson had a chance to play the Bills, Jets, etc... as well he would be setting the records right now!?!? People are saying Brady's stats look like a college QB. Maybe that's because he's playing college calibre defenses.

The Cowboys are nobody? The Chargers are nobody? I'm assuming you haven't seen Anderson or Brady take a snap all year 'cuz if you had you would see a major difference in how Brady is playing in comparison to him. Do you really think Anderson would have gone into Dallas and hung 5 TDs on the Cowboys?

Stop it hkHog, otherwise you may just start to convince me we could win this game!

PatsAddict wrote:

hkHog wrote:Some more stats to prove that the Patriots offense is byproduct of the teams they've played. Just look at Derek Anderson, Qb for the Cleveland Browns.

In his first NFL start in Week 2 he played Cincinnati. Anderson threw for 328 yds, 5 TDs, and a 121.0 passer rating. Two weeks later the Pats Played the Bengals and Brady could only manage 231 passing yards, 3 TDs, and a 115.0 passer rating. Cleveland put up 51 against the Bengals, New England could only manage 34!

Then in week 6 Anderson went against Miami. His stats, a 73% completion percentage, 3 TDs, a 142.5 passer rating, and 41 points scored. The next week New England played Miami and Brady had an 84% completion average, 6 TDs, and a 158 passer rating, scoring 49 points.

Is it just me or against the same competition are Tom Brady and Derek Anderson's stats identical!? Anderson played a little better against Cincinatti and Brady played a little better against Miami. This just proves how bad the defenses that the Pats have been playing really are! Please, a guy starting for the first time in his career is just as good!

The other four games this year Anderson has had to play four very good defenses in Pittsburg, Oakland, Baltimore, and New England while Brady has played nobody. Maybe if Anderson had a chance to play the Bills, Jets, etc... as well he would be setting the records right now!?!? People are saying Brady's stats look like a college QB. Maybe that's because he's playing college calibre defenses.

The Cowboys are nobody? The Chargers are nobody? I'm assuming you haven't seen Anderson or Brady take a snap all year 'cuz if you had you would see a major difference in how Brady is playing in comparison to him. Do you really think Anderson would have gone into Dallas and hung 5 TDs on the Cowboys?

The Cowboys have played nobody and have an average at best defense. The Chargers are a good team but were playing very poorly at the beginning of the year. They gave up 407 yds. to New England then 405 yds. to Green Bay the next week and then 390 yds. to KANSAS CITY at home before they fixed things. Sure you scored 38 on them but Green Bay scored 31 and KC scored 30 (BY FAR the most points they've scored all year.

I'm the one bringing facts and stats in here and all you can say is that you know Brady is better by watching him! What kind of an argument is that?

PatsAddict wrote:

hkHog wrote:Some more stats to prove that the Patriots offense is byproduct of the teams they've played. Just look at Derek Anderson, Qb for the Cleveland Browns.

In his first NFL start in Week 2 he played Cincinnati. Anderson threw for 328 yds, 5 TDs, and a 121.0 passer rating. Two weeks later the Pats Played the Bengals and Brady could only manage 231 passing yards, 3 TDs, and a 115.0 passer rating. Cleveland put up 51 against the Bengals, New England could only manage 34!

Then in week 6 Anderson went against Miami. His stats, a 73% completion percentage, 3 TDs, a 142.5 passer rating, and 41 points scored. The next week New England played Miami and Brady had an 84% completion average, 6 TDs, and a 158 passer rating, scoring 49 points.

Is it just me or against the same competition are Tom Brady and Derek Anderson's stats identical!? Anderson played a little better against Cincinatti and Brady played a little better against Miami. This just proves how bad the defenses that the Pats have been playing really are! Please, a guy starting for the first time in his career is just as good!

The other four games this year Anderson has had to play four very good defenses in Pittsburg, Oakland, Baltimore, and New England while Brady has played nobody. Maybe if Anderson had a chance to play the Bills, Jets, etc... as well he would be setting the records right now!?!? People are saying Brady's stats look like a college QB. Maybe that's because he's playing college calibre defenses.

The Cowboys are nobody? The Chargers are nobody? I'm assuming you haven't seen Anderson or Brady take a snap all year 'cuz if you had you would see a major difference in how Brady is playing in comparison to him. Do you really think Anderson would have gone into Dallas and hung 5 TDs on the Cowboys?

I won't say the Cowboys are nobody but any team that Norv Turner coaches is immediately rendered into nobodies.

hkHog wrote:

PatsAddict wrote:

hkHog wrote:Some more stats to prove that the Patriots offense is byproduct of the teams they've played. Just look at Derek Anderson, Qb for the Cleveland Browns.

In his first NFL start in Week 2 he played Cincinnati. Anderson threw for 328 yds, 5 TDs, and a 121.0 passer rating. Two weeks later the Pats Played the Bengals and Brady could only manage 231 passing yards, 3 TDs, and a 115.0 passer rating. Cleveland put up 51 against the Bengals, New England could only manage 34!

Then in week 6 Anderson went against Miami. His stats, a 73% completion percentage, 3 TDs, a 142.5 passer rating, and 41 points scored. The next week New England played Miami and Brady had an 84% completion average, 6 TDs, and a 158 passer rating, scoring 49 points.

Is it just me or against the same competition are Tom Brady and Derek Anderson's stats identical!? Anderson played a little better against Cincinatti and Brady played a little better against Miami. This just proves how bad the defenses that the Pats have been playing really are! Please, a guy starting for the first time in his career is just as good!

The other four games this year Anderson has had to play four very good defenses in Pittsburg, Oakland, Baltimore, and New England while Brady has played nobody. Maybe if Anderson had a chance to play the Bills, Jets, etc... as well he would be setting the records right now!?!? People are saying Brady's stats look like a college QB. Maybe that's because he's playing college calibre defenses.

The Cowboys are nobody? The Chargers are nobody? I'm assuming you haven't seen Anderson or Brady take a snap all year 'cuz if you had you would see a major difference in how Brady is playing in comparison to him. Do you really think Anderson would have gone into Dallas and hung 5 TDs on the Cowboys?

The Cowboys have played nobody and have an average at best defense. The Chargers are a good team but were playing very poorly at the beginning of the year. They gave up 407 yds. to New England then 405 yds. to Green Bay the next week and then 390 yds. to KANSAS CITY at home before they fixed things. Sure you scored 38 on them but Green Bay scored 31 and KC scored 30 (BY FAR the most points they've scored all year.

I'm the one bringing facts and stats in here and all you can say is that you know Brady is better by watching him! What kind of an argument is that?

Your argument has Anderson on par with Tom Brady. What kind of argument is that? You diplsay stats against two like opponents to make a claim that Anderson and Brady are playing at the same level when it's not even close to being the case. Brady could have had even sicker numbers against the Phins if they didn't get conservative in the third quarter. If the game against Cincinnati turned into a shoot-out like the Cleveland-Bengals game was, do you really think the Bengals could have slowed Brady down. The fact of the matter is the Pats ran for over 170 yards against the Bengals. Why would Brady chuck it all over the field when the Pats were averaging over 5 yards a rush? They held the ball for 15 more minutes than the Bengals because of that.

What you've done is cobble some stats together in order to support your argument yet you left out the context in which the games were played.

PatsAddict wrote:

hkHog wrote:

PatsAddict wrote:

hkHog wrote:Some more stats to prove that the Patriots offense is byproduct of the teams they've played. Just look at Derek Anderson, Qb for the Cleveland Browns.

In his first NFL start in Week 2 he played Cincinnati. Anderson threw for 328 yds, 5 TDs, and a 121.0 passer rating. Two weeks later the Pats Played the Bengals and Brady could only manage 231 passing yards, 3 TDs, and a 115.0 passer rating. Cleveland put up 51 against the Bengals, New England could only manage 34!

Then in week 6 Anderson went against Miami. His stats, a 73% completion percentage, 3 TDs, a 142.5 passer rating, and 41 points scored. The next week New England played Miami and Brady had an 84% completion average, 6 TDs, and a 158 passer rating, scoring 49 points.

Is it just me or against the same competition are Tom Brady and Derek Anderson's stats identical!? Anderson played a little better against Cincinatti and Brady played a little better against Miami. This just proves how bad the defenses that the Pats have been playing really are! Please, a guy starting for the first time in his career is just as good!

The other four games this year Anderson has had to play four very good defenses in Pittsburg, Oakland, Baltimore, and New England while Brady has played nobody. Maybe if Anderson had a chance to play the Bills, Jets, etc... as well he would be setting the records right now!?!? People are saying Brady's stats look like a college QB. Maybe that's because he's playing college calibre defenses.

The Cowboys are nobody? The Chargers are nobody? I'm assuming you haven't seen Anderson or Brady take a snap all year 'cuz if you had you would see a major difference in how Brady is playing in comparison to him. Do you really think Anderson would have gone into Dallas and hung 5 TDs on the Cowboys?

The Cowboys have played nobody and have an average at best defense. The Chargers are a good team but were playing very poorly at the beginning of the year. They gave up 407 yds. to New England then 405 yds. to Green Bay the next week and then 390 yds. to KANSAS CITY at home before they fixed things. Sure you scored 38 on them but Green Bay scored 31 and KC scored 30 (BY FAR the most points they've scored all year.

I'm the one bringing facts and stats in here and all you can say is that you know Brady is better by watching him! What kind of an argument is that?

Your argument has Anderson on par with Tom Brady. What kind of argument is that? You diplsay stats against two like opponents to make a claim that Anderson and Brady are playing at the same level when it's not even close to being the case. Brady could have had even sicker numbers against the Phins if they didn't get conservative in the third quarter. If the game against Cincinnati turned into a shoot-out like the Cleveland-Bengals game was, do you really think the Bengals could have slowed Brady down. The fact of the matter is the Pats ran for over 170 yards against the Bengals. Why would Brady chuck it all over the field when the Pats were averaging over 5 yards a rush? They held the ball for 15 more minutes than the Bengals because of that.

What you've done is cobble some stats together in order to support your argument yet you left out the context in which the games were played.

You still don't understand. I am not trying to demean Brady. I am just trying to prove the point that so far the defenses New England have faced are absolute garbage. That is a FACT! This is only proven further when a QB in his first season can put the same kinds of numbers up against them. The Pats have so far played by far the worst defenses in football. For some reason you just can't admit that.

I don't care if he played against the 7 worst defenses in the league in the first seven games. He has a 27/2 TD-to-Interception ratio, a 138 QB Rating, is completing 73 percent of his passes and has thrown for over 2,100 yards. These are professional football teams he's playing and he's put up those kinds of numbers.

I agree that the Skins secondary is the best he's faced so far. I'm assuming they'll test the Pat's offense. But those are historic numbers he's been putting up and poo-pooing them out of hand because the defenses he's faced aren't up to snuff seems to be whistling past the graveyard.

PatsAddict wrote:I don't care if he played against the 7 worst defenses in the league in the first seven games. He has a 27/2 TD-to-Interception ratio, a 138 QB Rating, is completing 73 percent of his passes and has thrown for over 2,100 yards. These are professional football teams he's playing and he's put up those kinds of numbers.

I agree that the Skins secondary is the best he's faced so far. I'm assuming they'll test the Pat's offense. But those are historic numbers he's been putting up and poo-pooing them out of hand because the defenses he's faced aren't up to snuff seems to be whistling past the graveyard.

I also think it's a bit unfair to knock the Pats solely based on their opponents because they've done what they are supposed to do which is to thoroughly dominate them. The Redskins-Cardinals game should not have been close and it was, same for the Redskins-Giants game. I think the Redskins can win this game but it's certainly not because I think NE is soft.

hkHog wrote:I am just trying to prove the point that so far the defenses New England have faced are absolute garbage. That is a FACT!

I don't think that word means what you think it does.

Fact: The game is played on the field, not in the forum.

Any given Sunday - last year, the incredibly good NE Patriots with, I believe, Brady as their QB went to Miami and lost that game 21-0 - now I know both Welker and Moss were not with the Patriots last year but that super QB could not even get 3 points? just amazing

The Patriots are looking really incredible and they should win but I would be very surprised if they beat us by more than 17 points - that is the betting line but I think that is based more on what the betting public perceives than on the fact that the Patriots have not played against a defense as good as this yet - yes they have beaten NFL caliber teams but not a defense that is evolving as well as ours in spite of how badly our offense has played - I believe Williams and our defense will be out to prove something this weekend and that should be fun to watch.

As I have said before the Patriots might just try and grind this out if they get in front and that will mean a win but not the 17 points the betting guys and many here are expecting.

I certainly won't be surprised if the Patriots win... but my gut says 'skins.

PulpExposure wrote:

hkHog wrote:I am just trying to prove the point that so far the defenses New England have faced are absolute garbage. That is a FACT!

I don't think that word means what you think it does.

Then prove to me that the defenses they've playing aren't garbage.

PatsAddict wrote:I don't care if he played against the 7 worst defenses in the league in the first seven games. He has a 27/2 TD-to-Interception ratio, a 138 QB Rating, is completing 73 percent of his passes and has thrown for over 2,100 yards. These are professional football teams he's playing and he's put up those kinds of numbers.

I agree that the Skins secondary is the best he's faced so far. I'm assuming they'll test the Pat's offense. But those are historic numbers he's been putting up and poo-pooing them out of hand because the defenses he's faced aren't up to snuff seems to be whistling past the graveyard.

Right, and I just showed you that Derek Anderson has put up the SAME numbers against the SAME teams. Those defenses all suck, why won't you accept that?

Combined record of Patriots opponents this season - 17-28

Combined record of Redskins opponents this season - 19-20

hkHog wrote:

PatsAddict wrote:I don't care if he played against the 7 worst defenses in the league in the first seven games. He has a 27/2 TD-to-Interception ratio, a 138 QB Rating, is completing 73 percent of his passes and has thrown for over 2,100 yards. These are professional football teams he's playing and he's put up those kinds of numbers.

I agree that the Skins secondary is the best he's faced so far. I'm assuming they'll test the Pat's offense. But those are historic numbers he's been putting up and poo-pooing them out of hand because the defenses he's faced aren't up to snuff seems to be whistling past the graveyard.

Right, and I just showed you that Derek Anderson has put up the SAME numbers against the SAME teams. Those defenses all suck, why won't you accept that?

Once again, the numbers that Anderson and Brady put up against those two teams didn't occur in a vacuum. I illustrated the circumstances in Brady's games against those two teams but you ignored them.

All the defenses that Pats have played have not sucked. And even if they all did, trying to somehow prove that Brady's insane numbers are not completely legitimate through comparisons to Derek Anderson or any other means is a straw man.

PatsAddict wrote:

hkHog wrote:

PatsAddict wrote:I don't care if he played against the 7 worst defenses in the league in the first seven games. He has a 27/2 TD-to-Interception ratio, a 138 QB Rating, is completing 73 percent of his passes and has thrown for over 2,100 yards. These are professional football teams he's playing and he's put up those kinds of numbers.

I agree that the Skins secondary is the best he's faced so far. I'm assuming they'll test the Pat's offense. But those are historic numbers he's been putting up and poo-pooing them out of hand because the defenses he's faced aren't up to snuff seems to be whistling past the graveyard.

Right, and I just showed you that Derek Anderson has put up the SAME numbers against the SAME teams. Those defenses all suck, why won't you accept that?

Once again, the numbers that Anderson and Brady put up against those two teams didn't occur in a vacuum. I illustrated the circumstances in Brady's games against those two teams but you ignored them.

All the defenses that Pats have played have not sucked. And even if they all did, trying to somehow prove that Brady's insane numbers are not completely legitimate through comparisons to Derek Anderson or any other means is a straw man.

Please, just name ONE TEAM in the NFL that has played a worse group of defenses than New England. Just one team is all I'm looking for.

And even if they all did, trying to somehow prove that Brady's insane numbers are not completely legitimate through comparisons to Derek Anderson or any other means is a straw man.

Great. Now he's going to have to go figure out what a straw man is.

what is a straw man?


lol