Post game discussion: Redskins Defense vs Arizona Cardinals

[CanesSkins26]

Suddenly, it's Al Saunders' fault he has no offensive line to speak of, his receivers can't get open or when they do the passes miss, the field goal kicker choked in all aspects, etc., et.al..

What plays does anyone expect the man to call for a non-existent offensive line which results in an ineffective rushing attack?

Nobody is saying that you have to throw bomb after bomb. But when the other team is stacking the box and you can't run the ball then you have to take some shots down field to loosen up the defense. Apparently the plays were called but weren't executed because of the problems with the oline. What I don't understand is why Thrash is being sent down field. We have at least 4 receivers that are better at making plays down field than Thrash is. Yet in the 4th quarter when we actually do take somewhat of a shot down field it's to Thrash, who drops the ball. Nothing against Thrash, he is a very good blocking wide receiver and plays hard and well on special teams, but he is not a good wide receiver. I think CLL is right when he says that Thrash is Gibbs' new man crush.

As for the passing game in general, it made no sense. If the oline wasn't blocking well why weren't we rolling JC out of the pocket? How about some quick timing passes such as a slant? When was the last time that this team threw a slant? I would've like to see more screens to the Portis or Betts, but after the int we went away from it. That seems to be a common practice with this team....as soon as one type of play goes poorly we abandon it. Also, where was Chris ey? Almost 100 yards receiving in one half last week and this week he has 1 catch? I didn't notice, was he used more to block this week?

Also, the play calling was predictable. The first time that we lined Portis up wide then had him motion back into the backfield and handed off to Sellers it worked. Great. But the second time we ran that play it was obvious as hell that Sellers was getting the ball. Every one I was watching the game with was yelling that Sellers was gonna get the ball and it was obvious that the Cards defense wasn't fooled either and the play went nowhere.

[welch]

Chris LL said:

Jason in his post-game interview pretty much confirmed that the offense is vanilla due to the line and that he pulled back on long bombs called BY SAUNDERS because he didn't trust the line.

Jansen says that injuries to the OL makes the offense narrow down; Joe Jacoby says the same thing; Jason Campbell says the same thing.

Could it be that they know something about offense? Maybe without the injuries to Rabach and Wade/Heyer the Redsins would have beaten the Packers? Maybe things will improve when Rabach returns?

[CanesSkins26]

Additionally, Suisham needs to get himself back on track. He is only 2 out of his last 5 and his kickoffs are downright awful right now.

[GSPODS]

Chris LL said:

Jason in his post-game interview pretty much confirmed that the offense is vanilla due to the line and that he pulled back on long bombs called BY SAUNDERS because he didn't trust the line.

Jansen says that injuries to the OL makes the offense narrow down; Joe Jacoby says the same thing; Jason Campbell says the same thing.

Could it be that they know something about offense? Maybe without the injuries to Rabach and Wade/Heyer the Redsins would have beaten the Packers? Maybe things will improve when Rabach returns?

I don't know about the rest of it but I agree with that "Redsins" thing. Their play today was downright sinful.

[hailskins666]

Additionally, Suisham needs to get himself back on track. He is only 2 out of his last 5 and his kickoffs are downright awful right now.

never been high on him, and still cringe everytime he goes out on the field, even if its a chip shot.

[CanesSkins26]

Chris LL said:

Jason in his post-game interview pretty much confirmed that the offense is vanilla due to the line and that he pulled back on long bombs called BY SAUNDERS because he didn't trust the line.

Jansen says that injuries to the OL makes the offense narrow down; Joe Jacoby says the same thing; Jason Campbell says the same thing.

Could it be that they know something about offense? Maybe without the injuries to Rabach and Wade/Heyer the Redsins would have beaten the Packers? Maybe things will improve when Rabach returns?

Of course that's partially true, but I find it hard to believe that there aren't some other things that we could be doing on offense to be more productive. We have a mobile qb so why didn't we roll him? If the oline is having trouble then try some quick passes using 3 step drops.

Bottom line is that they need to figure out some way to put up some points. Getting Rabach back should help but is that going to make Fabini, Wade, and Kendall (who has had some problems the last couple of weeks) start playing better?

[CanesSkins26]

Additionally, Suisham needs to get himself back on track. He is only 2 out of his last 5 and his kickoffs are downright awful right now.

never been high on him, and still cringe everytime he goes out on the field, even if its a chip shot.

Maybe the decision to not bring in any competition for him during training camp wasn't the best move?

[Judge]

So let's review...

14-0 lead, defense makes a big 4th down stop...good field position with a chance to extend the lead and have complete control going in at the half...

And then, right on cue...a disastrous interception.

And when the Cardinals drove down and had 4th and goal with just a couple of seconds left, who DIDN'T think they'd find a way to get into the endzone?

Then TWO defensive penalties ON THIRD DOWNS to extend the Cardinals' drive where they got their second touchdown. A late hit, and then an unsportsmanlike. Man, that's just heads-up, smart football, isn't it? Those are the kinds of plays that win you football games, huh?

So then the offense decides to go into the tank and go three and out on THREE CONSECUTIVE DRIVES in the 4th quarter while consuming hardly any time. Even when they still had a chance to ice it by getting two first downs...they failed miserably. And again, NO SIGNIFICANT TIME CONSUMED.

So then the Cardinals breeze right down the field in the last two minutes because the defense gets scared to make a play. And they allow TIM FREAKING RATTAY to throw a touchdown pass. And the only reason the Cardinals didn't convert their two-point conversion to tie the game is because whoever called that fire-drill play is a MORON.

Now, I have a question...

The Redskins have a two point lead and the onside kick is coming. Twenty seconds to play. If I'd have given you ten to one odds that the Redskins were going to recover the kick, would you have taken the bet? I sure as hell wouldn't have. That's how much faith I have in these guys to make the plays that win games.

So naturally, the Cardinals get the ball. CLEANLY. Without a Redskin within two yards in any direction.

And the Cardinals inch closer and closer, because the defense gives too much cushion. Twice.

So then here comes Rackers, who couldn't make a clutch kick if his childrens' lives depended on it. But this is the Redskins, and it's FedEx Field, and it's the last minute, and it's a chance to rip their hearts out...so if that's not a recipe for getting well, I don't know what is.

It was looking good most of the way, wasn't it? Were you laughing and using the same cuss words I was during the ball's flight toward the goalpost?

So a game that should have NEVER been in question comes down to the Redskins relying on:

The Cardinals' coaching staff being bigger idiots than the Redskins' coaching staff for the play selection for their two-point conversion...

And...

Neil Rackers sucking when it matters the most.

Folks, there is NO NEED to watch next Sunday.

The Patriots will win by 30 or more.

[Countertrey]

Additionally, Suisham needs to get himself back on track. He is only 2 out of his last 5 and his kickoffs are downright awful right now.

never been high on him, and still cringe everytime he goes out on the field, even if its a chip shot.

Maybe the decision to not bring in any competition for him during training camp wasn't the best move?

I believe that, at the time, room was needed to extra O-linemen, due to the damage that had been done to C Samuels. With the way things have gone with our O-line since then, it seems that it may have been providence...

[HEROHAMO]

Hey dont forget guys. Washington was out and so was Rabach. They both should be back for next week. Rabach is especially important for the center calls all the blocking schemes for the Oline. So once Rabach is in the game the Oline should improve dramatically. Also with Washington back it should also improve the pressure on the Qb as well.

[dmwc]

Folks, there is NO NEED to watch next Sunday.

The Patriots will win by 30 or more.

Talk about faithful... I HOPE I GET THIS GAME (live in NJ).

If anyone else wants to talk like this... DONT POST, YOU WASTE YOUR TIME AND THEIR (Staff) SPACE.

HAIL! WAS is 4-2!!

[CanesSkins26]

Additionally, Suisham needs to get himself back on track. He is only 2 out of his last 5 and his kickoffs are downright awful right now.

never been high on him, and still cringe everytime he goes out on the field, even if its a chip shot.

Maybe the decision to not bring in any competition for him during training camp wasn't the best move?

I believe that, at the time, room was needed to extra O-linemen, due to the damage that had been done to C Samuels. With the way things have gone with our O-line since then, it seems that it may have been providence...

Training camp started July 27th, Samules got hurt on July 30th. We opened camp with Suisham as our only kicker so I don't think that the Samuels injury had anything to do with it. If we had wanted to bring in a kicker during camp I have no doubt that we would've been able to find room on the roster to do it. At one point we had 5 qbs in camp so there were probably ways to make room on the roster for a kicker if the coaches had decided that it was needed.

[jmooney]

Well we could try to talk SCSkinsfan into driving over to the local high school and throwing the coach in his in his trunk, I could meet ya half way to save on gas. Last time I checked he was the winningest football coach ever , at any level. Just a thought.

Maybe we dont need to be that drastic, lets see how we recover from injuries this week, barring anything stupid in practice we should be as close to 100% since the week we lost Thomas. If this was truly the reason we played the way we did today, Itll show.

[grampi]

So let's review...

14-0 lead, defense makes a big 4th down stop...good field position with a chance to extend the lead and have complete control going in at the half...

And then, right on cue...a disastrous interception.

And when the Cardinals drove down and had 4th and goal with just a couple of seconds left, who DIDN'T think they'd find a way to get into the endzone?

Then TWO defensive penalties ON THIRD DOWNS to extend the Cardinals' drive where they got their second touchdown. A late hit, and then an unsportsmanlike. Man, that's just heads-up, smart football, isn't it? Those are the kinds of plays that win you football games, huh?

So then the offense decides to go into the tank and go three and out on THREE CONSECUTIVE DRIVES in the 4th quarter while consuming hardly any time. Even when they still had a chance to ice it by getting two first downs...they failed miserably. And again, NO SIGNIFICANT TIME CONSUMED.

So then the Cardinals breeze right down the field in the last two minutes because the defense gets scared to make a play. And they allow TIM FREAKING RATTAY to throw a touchdown pass. And the only reason the Cardinals didn't convert their two-point conversion to tie the game is because whoever called that fire-drill play is a MORON.

Now, I have a question...

The Redskins have a two point lead and the onside kick is coming. Twenty seconds to play. If I'd have given you ten to one odds that the Redskins were going to recover the kick, would you have taken the bet? I sure as hell wouldn't have. That's how much faith I have in these guys to make the plays that win games.

So naturally, the Cardinals get the ball. CLEANLY. Without a Redskin within two yards in any direction.

And the Cardinals inch closer and closer, because the defense gives too much cushion. Twice.

So then here comes Rackers, who couldn't make a clutch kick if his childrens' lives depended on it. But this is the Redskins, and it's FedEx Field, and it's the last minute, and it's a chance to rip their hearts out...so if that's not a recipe for getting well, I don't know what is.

It was looking good most of the way, wasn't it? Were you laughing and using the same cuss words I was during the ball's flight toward the goalpost?

So a game that should have NEVER been in question comes down to the Redskins relying on:

The Cardinals' coaching staff being bigger idiots than the Redskins' coaching staff for the play selection for their two-point conversion...

And...

Neil Rackers sucking when it matters the most.

Folks, there is NO NEED to watch next Sunday.

The Patriots will win by 30 or more.

I completely agree. This team (mainly the offense, though the defense has their moments) is thorougly embarrassing. There's absolutely no excuse for this offense to be playing so poorly. They can't do anything right, especially when they need it. I realize they have a lot of injuries, but if the system was sound, the 2nd or 3rd stringers would be able to step in without missing a beat.

What was with the Skins on that onside kick? They were all just standing around looking at the ball. Didn't they realize it was a live ball? That was the worst coverage of an onside kick I've ever seen by the receiving team.

I just can't put my finger on what the problem is with the Skins. Look at how many players and coaches have come and gone on this team since Gibbs left and nothing ever changes. They've got some of the league's highest paid players, and THE highest paid coaching staff, and still they never get any better. I don't believe in spells or hexs, but I really think this team has some kind of dark cloud following them around. Heck, even Gibbs himself can't turn things around for this once proud but now embarrassing team. I don't know if this team will ever win another Superbowl.

[GSPODS]

Folks, there is NO NEED to watch next Sunday.

The Patriots will win by 30 or more.

Talk about faithful... I HOPE I GET THIS GAME (live in NJ).

If anyone else wants to talk like this... DONT POST, YOU WASTE YOUR TIME AND THEIR (Staff) SPACE.

HAIL! WAS is 4-2!!

Yes, here the Patriots will win by 30 points but in another thread this person wants an even bet for total assets. What a total ass(et).

[CanesSkins26]

Even with the problems on the offensive line there is no reason for our offense to be this predictable. It is beyond pathetic and this type of nonsense isn't going to be successful against NFL teams. In the second half (not counting the knee at the end of the games) we ran 9 first down plays. 8 of those were running plays. On the 8 running plays that we ran on first down we had the following results:

2 yard loss
2 yard gain
2 yard gain
No gain
No gain
No gain
4 yard gain
3 yard gain

No offense can be successful with this type of predictability. The one time that we threw on first down in the second half we gained 26 YARDS!! So why not do that again? Far too conservative of a game plan.

[Irn-Bru]

Did you notice that we called more than a few down field plays? Campbell checked them off. Either the receivers weren't getting open, or the timing was off. . .but it wasn't a refusal of coaches to take shots down the field.

Well a few comments on that. It looked like he was checking down because of the pressure from the Cardinals. Additionally, why are we taking our shots down field with guys like Thrash? Isn't that what Moss and Randle El are for?

I agree, and offensive line injuries are the beginning and end of our problems right now.


The Redskins are sending Randle El, Lloyd, and Moss downfield, not just Thrash. . .that was kind of the point of my last post. . .

But, to reiterate: we can't run the ball to establish consistent ball movement on offense, we're having trouble giving Campbell time to throw, and both of those stem from offensive line injuries.

[Deadskins]

So let's review...

14-0 lead, defense makes a big 4th down stop...good field position with a chance to extend the lead and have complete control going in at the half...

And then, right on cue...a disastrous interception.

And when the Cardinals drove down and had 4th and goal with just a couple of seconds left, who DIDN'T think they'd find a way to get into the endzone?

Then TWO defensive penalties ON THIRD DOWNS to extend the Cardinals' drive where they got their second touchdown. A late hit, and then an unsportsmanlike. Man, that's just heads-up, smart football, isn't it? Those are the kinds of plays that win you football games, huh?

So then the offense decides to go into the tank and go three and out on THREE CONSECUTIVE DRIVES in the 4th quarter while consuming hardly any time. Even when they still had a chance to ice it by getting two first downs...they failed miserably. And again, NO SIGNIFICANT TIME CONSUMED.

So then the Cardinals breeze right down the field in the last two minutes because the defense gets scared to make a play. And they allow TIM FREAKING RATTAY to throw a touchdown pass. And the only reason the Cardinals didn't convert their two-point conversion to tie the game is because whoever called that fire-drill play is a MORON.

Now, I have a question...

The Redskins have a two point lead and the onside kick is coming. Twenty seconds to play. If I'd have given you ten to one odds that the Redskins were going to recover the kick, would you have taken the bet? I sure as hell wouldn't have. That's how much faith I have in these guys to make the plays that win games.

So naturally, the Cardinals get the ball. CLEANLY. Without a Redskin within two yards in any direction.

And the Cardinals inch closer and closer, because the defense gives too much cushion. Twice.

So then here comes Rackers, who couldn't make a clutch kick if his childrens' lives depended on it. But this is the Redskins, and it's FedEx Field, and it's the last minute, and it's a chance to rip their hearts out...so if that's not a recipe for getting well, I don't know what is.

It was looking good most of the way, wasn't it? Were you laughing and using the same cuss words I was during the ball's flight toward the goalpost?

So a game that should have NEVER been in question comes down to the Redskins relying on:

The Cardinals' coaching staff being bigger idiots than the Redskins' coaching staff for the play selection for their two-point conversion...

And...

Neil Rackers sucking when it matters the most.

Folks, there is NO NEED to watch next Sunday.

The Patriots will win by 30 or more.

I agree with most of your post, except the final two lines. We will win next week, against all odds and the doomsayers' predictions. Also, did anybody besides me, certainly not the officials (on the field or in the replay booth), notice that at least three Cardinals were offsides on the on-sides kick?

[Redskin in Canada]

I promised to behave myself after a LOSS in my Blog entitled Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. And I would have. I was juts not READY for a darn awful, embarrassing-laden, shameful offensive performance after a WIN.

I have one question. Just one:

Why do we try still to play the same ball-control, time of possession game that we would like to play IF we had healthy and dominant OL???

Why do we not ADJUST the game plan to the players that we DO NOT have on the field???

Sorry, that was two questions and I thought I had one. It must be the Tequila on tap.

[LOSTHOG]

I like the feeling of winning one we should have lost a lot better than losing one we should have won. I think karma still owes us one so no apologies here.

For those who think we will lose by 30 next week, go play golf or something so you don't jinx our team. Personally I would like Caldwell to be activated. For his size who is excellent in the middle. It seems our only "big" plays are deep outs. With the speed we have at wr I really think we could do damage on crossing routes.

[1niksder]

I promised to behave myself after a LOSS in my Blog entitled Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. And I would have. I was juts not READY for a darn awful, embarrassing-laden, shameful offensive performance after a WIN.

I have one question. Just one:

Nothing in the blog said anything about re-acting to a win, so you're good. A lot of people are taking the game as a lost, go figure

Why do we try still to play the same ball-control, time of possession game that we would like to play IF we had healthy and dominant OL???

Because this is week 7 and they want Jason to still be able to stand up by the time the get Thomas back

Why do we not ADJUST the game plan to the players that we DO NOT have on the field???

Sorry, that was two questions and I thought I had one. It must be the Tequila on tap.

They didn't know which lineman would be able to go until warmups before the game, so they didn't know who they would have to start with

[Redskin in Canada]

... They didn't know which lineman would be able to go until warmups before the game, so they didn't know who they would have to start with

Forgive me but I think they did manage to figure it out. They were willing to run -ANYWHERE- as long as it was the left side of the line. Talk about sending our RBs as kamikazes on suicide missions where they were warmly -expected- to arrive.

[welch]

Irn-bru said

I agree, and offensive line injuries are the beginning and end of our problems right now.


The Redskins are sending Randle El, Lloyd, and Moss downfield, not just Thrash. . .that was kind of the point of my last post. . .

But, to reiterate: we can't run the ball to establish consistent ball movement on offense, we're having trouble giving Campbell time to throw, and both of those stem from offensive line injuries.

(1) Late in last weeks game, and all of this weeks game, the only playing Redskins offensive lineman who started last year was Chris Samuels...unless I'm forgetting someone. Dockery went away, Rabach was hurt, Thomas also hurt, and Jansen hurt. That is a massive loss, and, I will believe, until someone persuades me differently, that the OL is the most interdependent unit...and, therefore, needs the most careful balance.

(2) Many of us are old enough to remember Redskin teams -- whole eras -- when they had weak OL's. Can the offensive brains craft an offense that doesn't need much of an OL? Sure:

(a) Consider the variations of the run & shoot. Successful? No, not a professional offense.

(b) Consider 1962 - 1968 Redskins. Check the record and the individual stats at:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/teams ... /redskins/

Those teams had Norm Snead throwing to Bobby Mitchell and Fred Dugan...and from '64 onward had Sonny Jurgensen throwing to Mitchell, Taylor, and Smith. Snead survived because he was so big for a QB of that era. Taylor, who was a fine RB, was switched because Toot figured there was no point in wasting him as a runner when nobody could block. Jurgensen, Mitchell, Taylor, and Smith were a league above anybody on the current Redskins, but even they lost more than they won.

Many of us remember that Lombardi said that you can't win big games unless you can run. It's painful.

(c) Gibbs/Petibon teams won hundreds of games against teams that had lousy OL's and tried to compensate by throwing a lot. Remember SB 17 or SB 22 or SB 26? (Just the most famous...and the games that younger fans might have seen in snippets on NFL Films). The Dolphins, Broncos, and Bills just couldn't handle the Redskin defense, and neither Elway nor Kelley were bums. They could throw, and they had fancy receivers.

*

So I'm not convinced that there is any form of razzle-dazzle on offense that can compensate for the loss of the OL. I hope more of the regular OL can play next week...and, meanwhile, I'm delighted that they won.

Hey...the Redskins won!!!! Is it better to run up first-downs and lose because the offense can't quite finish and the defense -- I'm thinking of last season -- falls down?

*

The question: what offense can get by without a strong OL? The Walsh offense didn't overpower teams, but his 49er OL was pretty good. And, come to think of it, they p[robably would not have survived playing in the NFC East (Giants, Redskins, and Eagles twice a year...painful).

[Deadskins]

The Walsh offense didn't overpower teams, but his 49er OL was pretty good. And, come to think of it, they p[robably would not have survived playing in the NFC East (Giants, Redskins, and Eagles twice a year...painful).

I've always contended that the 'Skins were the real "team of the '80s" for just that reason. The 49ers had the Falcons, Rams, and New Orleans in their division. Ooooooh, real tough to get to the playoffs with those opponents.

[welch]

JSPB22 wrote

I've always contended that the 'Skins were the real "team of the '80s" for just that reason. The 49ers had the Falcons, Rams, and New Orleans in their division. Ooooooh, real tough to get to the playoffs with those opponents.

Me too. The 49ers never had to take and give the pounding required to play the Redskins, Giants, Eagles (and Cowboys at different times). Walsh's team could arrive at the playoffs without the injuries that the NFC East gave with "smash-mouth" football every week.

My "signature" memory is Leonard Marshall (I think) breaking Montana in half in the turn-around play during the January, 1991 NFC Championship game. That was one game, and Montana would have chanced it six times a year (at least) had the 49ers played in the NFC East.

And, as you say, SF never had any serious competition in the NFC West.