Brandon Lloyd situation looks worse and worse...

[SkinsFreak]

You just never know, Gibbs and Saunders could very well have something up their sleeves. No defense is looking at Lloyd as being a threat right now. They've primarily doubled-up Moss and ey. Certainly ARE has garnered some attention as of late.

That 'could' mean a breakout game for Lloyd. If I were the coach, I'd go to Lloyd early and often. If Lloyd could get a big play early, I think defenses might get confused.



I've been wondering for some time now if we will see a different offense or game plan after the bye week. They've known about the schedule for some time now. The offense we've seen so far in the first three games doesn't even resemble the offense we saw the second half of last year.

We've even heard commentators saying "it's back to Joe Gibbs football". Well, they very well could be employing the old 'rope a dope' technique. They could be gearing up for a wide open Saunders offense. You never know, but I'd love to see that.

[Irn-Bru]

I like the optimism, SkinsFreak, but I'm not buying it.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Jason need all the help he can get from his #2 receiver, and stopping the clock during the two-minute drill could really help ease the tension on our young QB.

Jason? At this point I think it'll help the coaches more than anyone else.

[SKINFAN]

You just never know, Gibbs and Saunders could very well have something up their sleeves. No defense is looking at Lloyd as being a threat right now. They've primarily doubled-up Moss and ey. Certainly ARE has garnered some attention as of late.

That 'could' mean a breakout game for Lloyd. If I were the coach, I'd go to Lloyd early and often. If Lloyd could get a big play early, I think defenses might get confused.



I've been wondering for some time now if we will see a different offense or game plan after the bye week. They've known about the schedule for some time now. The offense we've seen so far in the first three games doesn't even resemble the offense we saw the second half of last year.

We've even heard commentators saying "it's back to Joe Gibbs football". Well, they very well could be employing the old 'rope a dope' technique. They could be gearing up for a wide open Saunders offense. You never know, but I'd love to see that.

I think so, I think that the last 3 games was spent on getting Jason comfy with the offense getting his timing in realtime and gamespeed. Also giving him some vanilla playcalling to get confidence, and zeroing that big cannon of his. Once he's on target, watch out coz he will be a Madbomber... I say forget the dukes and double moves... Just sprint downfield, and get to the spot coz you know jason can get it there.

[skinsfan#33]

In any case, he should have gone out of bounds immediately. I know he thought he had a play, but super-smart football players should know in that situation, you go out of bounds unless there is no one in front of you.

Yes, he should have made more of an effort to get out of bounds, but I didn't have any problem with him trying to make the first guy miss (which he did). Once, the WR (Moss I think) didn't block out the guy that tackled him, he should have gotten as many yards as he could have and stepped out of bounds

As for talent, Brandon Lloyd has the best hands on the team, according to Jason Campbell. If it's catchable, he'll catch WAY more than he drops.

I agree that he has great hands, but I think his route running, his ability to adjust to the ball in the air and timing his jumps all leave a lot to be desired. The INT in ths Dolphins game can be blamed on a lot of things, but the biggest contributing factor was Lloyd simply jumped too early. Now does that make him a bad guy or a bad WR? No! But a good WR makes that catch.

Lloyd has made a few plays when given the opportunity and has missed a few plays as well. The problem is that he has never been a consistent option on this team, and by that, I mean he is never thrown to on a consistent basis. He gets a ball here and there. That's what I mean when I say he hasn't really given an opportuinity to be a play maker here. He was a number 2 last year who got fewer passes than the number 3 guy, the tight end and the second string running back.

Maybe the fact he hasn't been thrown to is evidence to the fact that he simply isn't as good as ARE and isn't what the team thought he was going to be.
If he was playing well he would have had balls come his way. The team wanted him to do well. They thought he was going to do well. That is why they gave up the draft picks and gave him a new contract. The team hasn't let him down, he has let the team down.
If he was productive he would have been given more chances. His lack of production is not because he hasn't been given chances. He hasn't been given chances because he hasn't been productive.

If a guy runs good routes, is open often, plays a poorly thrown ball well he WILL GET THE BALL THROWN TO HIM! I think the team feels that he doesn't give it his all, kind of like Randy Moss when he was in Oakland. Can Lloyd go someplace else and thrive? Maybe. I think he is done for here, unless he decides he is going to go out and show the team that he really wants to succede. At this point that is going to have to start on the practice field because he was given his chance on game day.

[SkinsFreak]

I like the optimism, SkinsFreak, but I'm not buying it.

I hear ya...

I just keep thinking that what we've seen so far this year isn't what we're going to see the rest of the year. I mean, this offense has some weapons and Saunders has the plays. We just haven't seen it yet.

In 1981, we know that Gibbs tried the 'Air' Coryell passing attack for the first 5 games. After going 0-5, he made the switch to a run heavy offense. I was just thinking that maybe they were going to continue with the 'old' scheme until the bye, and then switch to more of a Saunders style of attack. Not unnecessarily a wide open passing offense, but a less conservative approach.

[roybus14]

This is the NFL folks. And in a alot of instances, that means "Not For Long." Unless you have proven yourself consistently, you are only going to get some many chances to prove your worth. Obviously, B.Lloyd can't do anything about balls that are thrown completely too high, too long, to the left or right but balls where he has a chance to make a play, he has to make a play on it and make the catch.

We've all seen from this team that just about every down counts, so on plays like the one earlier this year to him that was picked off, he has to show that he can make that catch or at least claw and scratch to try to make that catch.

I don't think that all is lost with him but this team needs to either piss or get off the pot with this guy by signing all of these WR's. If signing them is not motivating B.Lloyd, then you need to go in another direction via trade or whatever.

[crazyhorse1]

The more and more I think and hear about this situation, I really believe there's something going on in the locker room, meetings or behind the scenes that we simply don't know about.

Must be. Or maybe he's terrible in practice. At any rate, I haven't seen that he's been given any kind of reasonable chance this year. This worries me about the coaches. We've had four years now of destructive personnel decisions.

[Chris Luva Luva]

The more and more I think and hear about this situation, I really believe there's something going on in the locker room, meetings or behind the scenes that we simply don't know about.

Must be. Or maybe he's terrible in practice. At any rate, I haven't seen that he's been given any kind of reasonable chance this year. This worries me about the coaches. We've had four years now of destructive personnel decisions.

*wipes eyes* What just happened here? *passes out*

[crazyhorse1]

You have to be DROPPING balls to be failing - in order to be dropping balls - they have to be throwing to you. That isn't happening.

And it doesn't have anything to do with doing a show with the guy either... we ain't right now... so since I'm not, why on earth would I subject myself to such garbage unless it was willingly and because I believed it to be the truth? I see the ridiculous, baseless accusations and assertions every day - exactly why I usually don't comment on them. For someone to accuse me of bias is grossly predictable and grossly prejudicial as well. Somehow I manage to put personal bias aside enough to let any jerk off participate on this board - what more proof do you need? Now I need to sugar coat my words because we did a show with the guy last year? That's just not even looking at what I personally am talking about and completely missing the point - bad personnel decisions that cost millions of dollars.

I didn't do a show with Adam Archuletta - doesn't change the fact that what we did with him was as stupid as personnel handling gets in my opinion. Doesn't change the fact that regardless of how much I love my team, I look at that and go, 'Are You kidding Me'... could we be any dumber? And the situation with Brandon is exactly the same.

If you don't put your investments in a position to be successful, then you're just burning cap dollars... and in an age of parity, that just means that you're not putting the best possible product on the field - all of the time.

Throw a receiver the ball more than once a game and see if he catches any - then I'll listen to any arguments you want about 'production'. Until then, it's just lip service and putting a wide receiver on the field strictly to block does NOT qualify as giving him an opportunity. You have to try get him the ball.

I didn't see Moss benched fro dropping a bunch of balls... I didn't see ARE castigated for not coming back to the ball when it caused an interception... it happens, football is full of individual mistakes... they say there's one on EVERY play. I don't see running backs getting 'one fumble opportunity' before they're benched forever - I don't see quarterbacks getting 'one interception opportunity' before they're benched. (Oh wait, scratch that, that's how Brunell got the nod over Ramsey in the first place.)

I don't see people talking about how James Thrash has lined up on nearly every offensive play and not caught a ball yet.

The point is, I don't see this as having anything to do with on-field performance. It's all about being stubborn. It's just childish bullying... and it's not like Brandon is the only one to experience it... Arch went through it, and it's not much different than what Lavar went through.

Who's talking with bias, the guy defending the ostracized player, or the ones that continue to give a management team a total pass when there''s an obvious established pattern of personnel mishandling?

I couldn't agree with Boss more. Management dropped the ball regarding Ramsey, Arch, LaVar, and others with blatant prejudice and once benched a healthy Portis with no worthwhile explanation. It's hard to discount the idea that they're doing the same thing with Lloyd. I don't recall him dropping footballs and totally disagree with conventional BS scapegoating he dogged the play on that interception.

Remember when a healthy LaVar was sitting on the bench while his inept replacement was being consistently run over and we were losing because of it.

[SKINFAN]

say it aint so....


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/footb ... ew_si.html


""I will be a successful businessman based on probably 85% of the things I have learned from Daniel Snyder," says Arrington, who is starting a clothing line with Baltimore linebacker Ray Lewis and former University of Miami linebacker Rohan Marley and is doing analysis for a local network. "It appears that (the Redskins) pay more money (than other teams). Dan Snyder is brilliant in that he knows how to backload, he knows that if he wants to pay, he has at least two to three years to decide if he really wants to pay you what your contract is (worth). Or he will restructure you and guarantee you more money and you will get some, but it is not what people think it is.

"Watch what they will do," Arrington continues. "They will get rid of (running back) Clinton (Portis) before they have to pay him his crazy amount of money. They will get rid of (offensive lineman) Chris Samuels. That is how they do business. Or they restructure you."

[crazyhorse1]

It's impossible to conclude until he gets a fair shake.

How do we know that he isn't getting a fair shake? If he isn't getting the job done in practice (as CP suggested last week) then why should he see the field on Sundays? To me being given a fair shake means getting a chance in practice to earn playing time. If that hasn't happened then the Skins need to get their act together. But just because Lloyd isn't getting playing time doesn't mean that he hasn't gotten a fair shake.

I agree that if you don't practice well, you shouldn't get much playing time.

But look at the offense as a whole. We have 0 catches from any other WR outside of Moss and ARE. We've played 3 games and thrown 10's of passes and not one has been caught/thrown to another WR.

I'm not defending the dude but let's get off of this Gibbs is a mini-god state of mind and can do no wrong.

I don't believe the Skins scrimmage at practive during the season, do they? Where is he looking bad? Passing drills, skull sessions, running through plays, dummy drills? Attitude? When I played in college, between game practices were primarily for the head and responsive to the need to recover from injuries and rest up for the next game. I've never see a pro practice during the season that wasn't the same thing.

[crazyhorse1]

Sometimes, life isn't fair. Maybe this is one of those times for Lloyd. The FACT is that he HASN'T performed. If he "hasn't gotten enough balls his way" or "hasn't been given a fair shake" is really irrelavent. He's NOT performed with the opportunities he's been given. Couple tha twith his adolescent temper tantrum last year, and that's why he's in the situation he's in. If he were to convice the coaching staff otherwise, then he wouldn't be in this predicament. Look how long Ade Jimoh lasted. If he can do it that long, anyone can with the right attitude.

Actually, if you check the facts, you'll discover that Lloyd has done well in regard to the ratio of catchable balls thrown to him-- 23 of 26.

[VetSkinsFan]

Disregard.

[skinsfan#33]

Sometimes, life isn't fair. Maybe this is one of those times for Lloyd. The FACT is that he HASN'T performed. If he "hasn't gotten enough balls his way" or "hasn't been given a fair shake" is really irrelavent. He's NOT performed with the opportunities he's been given. Couple tha twith his adolescent temper tantrum last year, and that's why he's in the situation he's in. If he were to convice the coaching staff otherwise, then he wouldn't be in this predicament. Look how long Ade Jimoh lasted. If he can do it that long, anyone can with the right attitude.

Actually, if you check the facts, you'll discover that Lloyd has done well in regard to the ratio of catchable balls thrown to him-- 23 of 26.

That is load of elephant dung. It may very well be true, but to say that your #2 WR is doing "well" if he only gets the QB to throw to him 56 times(20 I guess were deamed uncatchable). Mike Sellers, an after thought in the passing game, got the QBs to throw to him 20 times and caugth 18 balls.

IN a game a WR may have had a dozen plays where he was the primary receiver in the play and another dozen were he is the secondary player. If he doesn't get thrown to, does that mean he didn't get any chances?

Heck no! He had 10-20 chances to get open in time for the QB to want to throw him the ball. Last year the Skins threw the ball 470 times and I would say that BL was on the field for at least 80% of those plays. That is 376 plays. Would it be safe to say he was either the primary or secondary receiver on at least 25% of those plays? I think so. That number is 94 and I bet that is a conservative estimate. So he had close to 100 chance to make the QB want to throw him the ball.

There are plenty of times a player had a chance to get the ball thrown to him, when the ball was never thrown his way. A good WR maximizes those chances.

You said he only had 26 catchable balls thrown his way and the way you think that is the number of "chances" he had. What about all of the other plays were a player runs the wrong or poor route and the QB can't throw him the ball. Was that a chance?

BL has had plenty of chances!

Jame Thrash hasn't had that many chances. He is either not on the field or remains in to block or is the #4 or #5 option on a pass play. THAT is not geting chances!

[JansenFan]

Can I borrow the crystal ball you have that says why the qb doesn't throw the ball to Lloyd? That could come in handy.

And on that note, would we prefer that Lloyd go the TO wrote and scream for the ball or denegrate teammates in the media or call JC gay for not throwing him the ball?

I just don't get the hate some of you have for the guy.

[VetSkinsFan]

He simply hasn't performed....I don't think i can put it any simpler than that. He's been here a full year and 3 games, not counting pre-season. He's got 1 TD(and that was IN pre-season). There's a REASON he's getting paid millions of dollars and NOT playing, let alone starting. He came in at the same time as ARE, and ARE was #3. After lack of performance coupled with attitude, he's not even #3 now. I don't know how much clearer it can be.

It can be hypothesized WHY he's not playing, go ahead. The FACT of the matter is that he ISN'T playing and he HASN'T performed or he WOULD be playing.

Edit for typo

[GSPODS]

He simply hasn't performed....I don't think i can put it any simpler than that. He's been here a full year and 3 games, not counting pre-season. He's got 1 TD(and that was IN pre-season). There's a REASON he's getting paid millions of dollars and NOT playing, let alone starting. He came in at the same time as ARE, and ARE was #3. After lack of performance coupled with attitude, he's not even #3 now. I don't know how much clearer it can be.

It can be hypothesized WHY he's not playing, go ahead. The FACT of the matter is that he ISN'T playing and he HASN'T performed or he WOULD be playing.

Edit for typo

The reason he is getting paid millions of dollars is because Dan Snyder agreed to pay him that amount. If someone offered you the same money you would take it. Don't try for a second to convince anyone otherwise. The reason he is not playing is the coaching staff. It is not Lloyd's fault nor his problem if he gets paid to sit on the bench. The Washington Redskins agreed to those terms and conditions.

[VetSkinsFan]

If Lloyd was performing, then he would be playing, therefore it IS his fault that he's on the bench. To add to that, any self-respecting person who gets paid starter money to sit on the bench should be striving to get on the field. You don't think that it causes animosity within the team? I sure do.

That's the problem with a lot of things today. Everyone has an excuse instead of taking responsibility for their situation and their actions. Lloyd is a great example of that.....

[SkinsJock]

I agree that he has not performed up to the expectations we all had for him, but this is a two way street - the plays have to be designed that include him and when the primary receiver is not open which happens a lot the second and third should be considered - I just feel that either the coaches or Campbell are not ensuring that this guy gets the ball often enough - this is not all Brandon's fault - that is all I and others are implying.

Also, I am still waiting for Campbell to get the ball to the open guy a lot quicker than he has shown so far this year - this league is called the NFL which means the receiver is open but Not For Long and most of the time I see Cambell looking for an open guy and by the time he finds the open guy he is mostly well covered - this offensive line cannot give Campbell that much time - he needs to make his reads a lot more quickly - that is not Lloyd's fault

Add to that the fact that Brandon is not going the whiny route and I think he deserves a lot more credit than he is getting here

[CanesSkins26]

Portis Says He Is Playing/Moss Not Looking Good

That pretty much says it all.
Lloyd sat out practice with a bruised shin, leading to lots of raised eyebrows. This thing with him won't end well, but we already knew that, right?
Given how the season has gone I could see him perhaps being in no hurry to get back on the practice field, and several of his teammtes believe that to be the case.
Thrash will start for Moss - he says the coaches told him to be ready to play the Z Sunday if Moss can't go - and McCardell and Caldwell expect to be active.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/

[jmooney]

Hey , for the 6 million the guy is making this year (I thought it was 10) there is no way I would take the cap hit and cut him. He could dump trash or be the water bottle guy during time outs, but there is no way he walks away without "earning" a cent of that money. They're stuck with him so they gotta find a way to use him

[SkinsJock]

Hey , for the 6 million the guy is making this year (I thought it was 10) there is no way I would take the cap hit and cut him. He could dump trash or be the water bottle guy during time outs, but there is no way he walks away without "earning" a cent of that money. They're stuck with him so they gotta find a way to use him

That sums it up rather nicely, don't you think

[GSPODS]

If Lloyd was performing, then he would be playing, therefore it IS his fault that he's on the bench.

That is your assumption. You post as though you have some inside information the rest of us are not privileged to. You don't. You have nothing to do with the personnel decisions of the Washington Redskins. You're nothing more than a fan, and a pseudo-fan at that. You're either a fan of the entire organization, the good, the bad, and the ugly, or you're not. Singling out one individual as being the root of all evil simply does not hold water unless that individual is the CEO. I believe that would be Dan Snyder.

Santana Moss has been on the field. If you're trying to convince anyone that he deserves a free pass for his drops this season you are wasting your breath. Jason Campbell has missed several open receivers. He doesn't get a free pass either under your judgmental guidelines. Jon Jansen is on IR. I suppose you think if he had performed he would be playing. Stephon Heyer did perform and lost his position to Todd Wade. I could keep going but obviously it's a waste of time. Exactly who are you trying to convince? Yourself?

[Gibbs4Life]

Lloyd scored a td in pre season, its only been 3 games, he still has an opportunity but Reche and Keenan are cool characters he has to out perform.