The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Todd has a few years left and if he's going to be here then he needs to be getting A LOT of reps with the 1st group of guys.

Chris you know the backups don't get ANY reps with the starters.
TC has been a career #3 and you want to make him our #2? Based on what. He was our number 2 last year (but only during the game). Having that distintion should have told us a lot. Lets hope the #2 and #3 QBs never see the field as long as JC is the starter.

frankcal20 wrote:Todd is here for his mental knowledge of the system to help with JC. I don't see him being used for more than that. If I remember, we are sending a QB over to Europe right. He was with us last offseason as an UFA.

Then make him a coach and make Brunell one too. Why even have a QB coach if we have these two guys. It doesn't make sense to me to have these guys if they aren't anything better than a knowledge base.

And I don't think the guy over in Europe is a real contender for a spot. I think we just send people over there because we can.

IMO

1. JC
2. Collins
3. MB

It will be interesting to see this offseason.

TC was brought in because he knew the system last year. Now everyone knows the system, meaning their is no real reason to be here

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm sorry but Collins needs to be promoted. Brunell doesn't have what it takes anymore.

Do you really think Todd Collins is a better No.2 than Brunell?!? I sure don't.

I think he really could be if given the chance. If he got the reps, I think he could really be a decent #2 especially with his knowledge of the system, he just needs to learn the speed of the WR's.

Why string Brunell along and delay the fact that we will need another #2 soon. Why not groom Collins at #2? Brunell can still teach from the 3rd position? Brunell is getting older and will he have what it takes physically if JC goes on IR in week 5? Thats my biggest concern. As soon as Brunell steps on the field the line of scrimmage will be crammed.

I'd agree with a lot of that if not for the fact Collins is also getting older. He'll be 36 before the end of the '07 season - not the kind of guy you want as your long-term backup. Ideally, we need a cheap up-and-comer to learn behind JC, in the unlikely event he goes down for a significant period of time.

1niksder wrote:TC was brought in because he knew the system last year. Now everyone knows the system, meaning their is no real reason to be here

So you think we should get rid of TC? I'm no fan of TC, I just think he's the best guy for the #2 spot.

If we negate system knowledge which IMO he still is the clear leader in because there's no way 1 year compares to 4+ years, then we have to compare physical ability....and we know about that.

What -if- a great QB happens to drop at #6 in the draft?

I am just asking for the sake of interest ...

Redskin in Canada wrote:What -if- a great QB happens to drop at #6 in the draft?

I am just asking for the sake of interest ...

Take him and trade later or let someone who wants him swap places with us. They'll gives us this years 2 round pick, and next years 1st.

WE DO NOT KEEP HIM!

Just trade the pick outright. then you get more options to shop b/c even if a QB is available, someone may not want to move up to get a qb but a safety, cb, etc.

I think BH and a couple of others have already indicated that IF we have a shot at a QB at 6 there are possibly a number of decent trading partners that will benefit us - I agree with this IF we still are able to address our D with the free agent market first and then with hopefully a future great DE or DT.

As far as Brunell is concerned - I am hoping that he restructures his deal and is here to help Campbell, that's it! This guy seems to me to be a good leader and will be a great mentor for Campbell- as far as being the #2, IMO, Brunell is a better option than Collins however we are going to need to get someone in here and get him up to speed. We really need to get a decent back-up as neither Brunell or Collins is that great. They both are #3 quality, if that.

SkinsJock wrote:...neither Brunell or Collins is that great. They both are #3 quality, if that.

Sorry. I'm not buying that. True, brunell's skills have eroded, but he's way ahead of a career journeyman. Like him or not, that's the truth.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:...neither Brunell or Collins is that great. They both are #3 quality, if that.

Sorry. I'm not buying that. True, brunell's skills have eroded, but he's way ahead of a career journeyman. Like him or not, that's the truth.

MB can't execute because his body isn't able to. He's a beast but he's done.

We know that Brunell can't get it done at this point but Collins is a question mark. How about we see what he can do?

Brunell Is Back

Heard from some people this morning that the Skins and Mark Brunell reached an agreement on a new contract last night and that Mark will probably sign the thing soon. In essence, it works out pretty close to what I wrote about a few days ago.
Instead of Mark counting nearly $7 million against the cap, he'll count probably less than half of that total (don't have the exact numbers yet but will get them). It's effectively a 1 year deal (on paper it's a 4 year deal but the final three years automatically void out), making Mark a free agent this time next year.

He got no signing bonus, but will get a roster bonus and a base salary around the vet. min. for him ($820,000). All told it will likely cost the Skins about $2.0-$3.0 million against the cap (I am told he ends up making essentially the league average for backups). It's a win-win - the Skins keep a veteran backup they really like, and Mark makes less money than he would have under his old contract, but gets the security of some guaranteed money and the security of a place he knows and likes, and doesn't have to try to win people over in a new locale.

Considering he is coming off labrum surgery, and his age (37 come Sept.) one year was all he was going to get at this point to backup Jason Campbell. I will speak to Mark later in the day and post the quotes.

Sounds like a decent deal.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Sounds like a decent deal.

This is great. Historically, Mark has played better in the underdog role in Washington. (See: MB05)

EDIT: No doubt the competition will be good for Jason to get better...fast.

I really don't see any competition here. He just had surgery which will not get him on the field any time soon.

As for Collins, I like the idea that he may go elsewhere to compete for a backup job. This will save us some money.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Sounds like a decent deal.

This is great. Historically, Mark has played better in the underdog role in Washington. (See: MB05)

EDIT: No doubt the competition will be good for Jason to get better...fast.

I think that is the best situation for all concerned (IF it happens as indicated) - Mark will be a big help to Campbell but I am concerned because he will most likely be the back-up - don't get me wrong Redeemed, Mark is very good as a mentor and an "example" to Campbell but I sure would be nervous if he had any extended playing time for us - this guy just does not have 'it' anymore.

You would be dreaming if you thought Brunell was going to be "competing" at camp - unless it was to be one of our 'cheer-leaders'. Mark provides a certain leadership for Campbell but we need to get Bramlet or someone ready in a hurry.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Sounds like a decent deal.

This is great. Historically, Mark has played better in the underdog role in Washington. (See: MB05)

EDIT: No doubt the competition will be good for Jason to get better...fast.

MB05 is something we can all agree on.

SkinsJock wrote:Mark provides a certain leadership for Campbell but we need to get Bramlet or someone ready in a hurry.

Do you honestly believe that having a Bramlet waiting in the wings, in the event JC can't play is more settling to the nerves than having a proven talent like Brunell waiting in the wings.

True, the gameplan might change (dink & dunk), but at least the guy can execute it. After all, there was a reason Bramlet was left OFF the roster to begin with.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Do you honestly believe that having a Bramlet waiting in the wings, in the event JC can't play is more settling to the nerves than having a proven talent like Brunell waiting in the wings.

Even I'd pick MB06 over Bram.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:True, the gameplan might change (dink & dunk), but at least the guy can execute it.

To an extent yes. He can execute dink and dunk but its the effect that it has on the rest of the team.

MB07 enters the gane. (based off of 06)
1. The defense crowds the line of scrimmage.
2. 8 guys in the box destroys our running game.

Even Saunders said in his last interview that everything changed once JC got in. Its what can be done with the plays at hand. MB does not have what it takes to physically, at one point he looked gun shy.

After all, there was a reason Bramlet was left OFF the roster to begin with. [/quote]

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:True, the gameplan might change (dink & dunk), but at least the guy can execute it.

To an extent yes. He can execute dink and dunk but its the effect that it has on the rest of the team.

MB07 enters the gane. (based off of 06)
1. The defense crowds the line of scrimmage.
2. 8 guys in the box destroys our running game.

You make a valid point, and that was completely evident in '06. However, in Brunell's defense, in '05 (not that this implies he's gonna regain that form -- but, it's possible), in the second year of the Gibbs system, defenses did the same thing, and he still played at a Pro Bowl level (early in the season before injury).

Now, I'm not pining for him to get the starting nod again (JC's potential is too bright to give MB the reins FT), but to say that he's completely done and want to go to an NFL Europe project instead is bonkers, IMHO.

BTW, CLL: You're use of the quote button has really been off in recent days. What gives? Are you posting from your PDA again?

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:True, the gameplan might change (dink & dunk), but at least the guy can execute it.

To an extent yes. He can execute dink and dunk but its the effect that it has on the rest of the team.

MB07 enters the gane. (based off of 06)
1. The defense crowds the line of scrimmage.
2. 8 guys in the box destroys our running game.

You make a valid point, and that was completely evident in '06. However, in Brunell's defense, in '05 (not that this implies he's gonna regain that form -- but, it's possible), in the second year of the Gibbs system, defenses did the same thing, and he still played at a Pro Bowl level (early in the season before injury).

Now, I'm not pining for him to get the starting nod again (JC's potential is too bright to give MB the reins FT), but to say that he's completely done and want to go to an NFL Europe project instead is bonkers, IMHO.

BTW, CLL: You're use of the quote button has really been off in recent days. What gives? Are you posting from your PDA again?

Yes but that was with Gibbs offense. And he played well when healthy. He seemed to get hurt a bit in 06 and they never bench him but rather keep him in until the season is lost.

Brunell is completely done as a valid option in my book. He's not someone you can expect to take over and keep the team going. I believe that because once he gets nicked up he's done. Its not his fault, Father time can only be eluded by Barry Sanders.

I don't think Bram is even a valid option. Thats why for now I believe Collins is the best option. He can perform physically and knows the systen better than JC and Brunell. His shortcoming may be arm strength and familiarity with the WR's.

I would agree that Brunell is still able to be of some value to the team, he could come in and finish a game (literally), he is just not suited to being a long term back-up. I would prefer Brunell to Collins at this time - I just think and hope this will be addressed before the season begins.

If for some reason we should lose Campbell for a few games the adjustments would be too much for us to be very confident in a positive outcome - we need a decent long term back-up so that when it becomes obvious to Gibbs (as it is to the rest of the NFL) that Brunell is not able to be effective for more than a short period on the field we will have someone else available.

Hopefully nothing happens to Campbell that involves more than a quarter or 2

Lets rate Collins and Brunell as a sub.

Knowledge - Collins
Experience - Brunell
Strength - Collins
Familiarity with the WR's - Brunell


I think Collins knowledge of the system will allow his lack of time with the WR's to be less of an issue, especially if he's allowed to practice with the more.

Brunell has more experience hands down but it does no good if he can;t get the ball there.

Collins is not a strong armed QB but his knowledge of the short routes can aid him and he may have a longer ball the MB right now.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Sounds like a decent deal.

Yeah it does.

Plus Brunell can actually advise Campbell with anecdotes from his many years as an NFL starter.

Whereas Collins could tell Campbell about his long career as a clipboard holder...