Is this taking it too far in the name of "amnesty"

Wanna talk about politics, your favorite hockey team... vegetarian recipes?

"Nuestro Himno" (aka 'The Star Spangled Banner')

Good idea
1
5%
Good idea
0
No votes
Bad idea
12
63%
Bad idea
0
No votes
I don't care...it's a free country.
6
32%
I don't care...it's a free country.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 19

Redskin in Canada
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Post by Redskin in Canada »

UK Skins Fan wrote:... I honestly don't see the problem with his opening post. In my humble and sincere opinion, the thread started downhill from the moment your hostile opening remarks were posted. My 2 cents

A guy that comes here boasting about his Central American Hispanic background and who has drafted several posts in Spanish in this board now finds it "insulting" if somebody translates the National Anthem into Spanish? Spare me.

You might fail to see the -context- of the debate in time and space. The political times in the USA under this administration are very turbulent, not only for the USA but for many others outside of their country as well.

Redeemed's "outrage" takes place in the context of a very delicate moment in US politics and, while he may or may not know it, the possible beginning of yet another war abroad. One far more dangerous and difficult than the one going on at present.

The USA will need ALL the support it can get from within and from abroad to succeed in these difficult times. A divided USA will not succeed. You know from history that a USA without allies may not succeed either.

The worst possible scenario that can take place in the USA is a xenophobic attitude towards minorities and the most vulnerable members of their society. Propaganda is effective and the manipulation of information directed to the US middle class is truly frightening.

Some posters have insisted that this is -their- problem. It is not. What happened in Rome had an impact throughout their Empire and beyond. What happens inside the USA will win them or lose them unity and international support at a very critical time in the contemporary history of the western world.

Perhaps it is too much to ask from a middle class bombarded with daily veiled and open propaganda to wake up at once and realise that they are walking a very dangerous path by lending their ears to the most radical members of their political establishment. But I am strong believer about the truth and its ability to prevail in the end.

I am drafting these words from a perspective of somebody that understands that the moral high ground that the World may have vis-a-vis terrorists stands on the universal principles of human rights and respect for the rule of law in a compassionate environment. The current war is not a military war only. It is a war of ideas and principles.

I am drafting these words from a perspective of a profound foreign admirer to the principles and foundations that made the United States the most powerful nation on the face of the earth.

The same most powerful and influential superpower left on the face of the earth in the fields of economic, military and cultural affairs that must not feel so insecure only because their national anthem is translated into another language with the intention to express love and loyalty by the most dispossessed members of their society.

If anybody were to translate the Canadian national anthem, a beautiful anthem available in English and French as you may know, into -any- other languages with the intention to express loyalty and affection by others, I would be not only pleased but grateful! I would be moved.

No, the criticism to the translation into another language of the US national anthem is not based on values. It is a misguided and divisive propaganda excuse.
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Post by REDEEMEDSKIN »

Redskin in Canada wrote:You might fail to see the -context- of the debate in time and space. The political times in the USA under this administration are very turbulent, not only for the USA but for many others outside of their country as well.

Redeemed's "outrage" takes place in the context of a very delicate moment in US politics and, while he may or may not know it, the possible beginning of yet another war abroad. One far more dangerous and difficult than the one going on at present.

The USA will need ALL the support it can get from within and from abroad to succeed in these difficult times. A divided USA will not succeed. You know from history that a USA without allies may not succeed either.

The worst possible scenario that can take place in the USA is a xenophobic attitude towards minorities and the most vulnerable members of their society. Propaganda is effective and the manipulation of information directed to the US middle class is truly frightening.


Well, these ARE the last days. :wink:
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Post by REDEEMEDSKIN »

UK Skins Fan wrote:Redskin in Canada wrote:
I do not participate in political threads. And this one is turned from one with prejudice and ignorance into a racist and political thread very rapidly. The issue was posted in a stupid manner from the beginning as an "insult" poll and the debate can only go downhill from there.

I respect your opinions greatly RiC, but here I must beg to differ. I have no idea what your history is with Redeemed, but I honestly don't see the problem with his opening post. In my humble and sincere opinion, the thread started downhill from the moment your hostile opening remarks were posted. My 2 cents

Please forgive him, UK Skins Fan, for he knew not what he was doing when he first responded.

After all, as a "wise" man once said:


Writing in anger has never been helpful to encourage effective communication.


I’m convinced that that is why we're nearing a double-digit page count in this thread.

Although, upon further review. I’m beginning to understand the meaning of the following post, even without it being translated into Spanish:


Redskin in Canada wrote:
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Hipocrisy? Please elaborate.
OK then:

hypocrisy (well spelled in English :roll: )
hypocrisie (French)
hipocrisia(Portuguese)
okrisie (German)
ipocrisia (Italian)
schijnheiligheid (Dutch)
?p????s?a (Greek)
???????????? (Russian)
?? (Korean)
?? (Japanese)

You should ask your parents the -meaning- of it in Spansih.
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Post by Redskin in Canada »

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote: I’m beginning to understand the meaning of the following post, even without it being translated into Spanish:

We really got to know one another's limitations to be fair.

Happy posting.
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Post by redskins12287 »

Hey RIC, I'm just curious; what is it like in Canada with as far as first or sencond generation immigrants are concered? Are there alot? If so, where are they from? Is is easy to get citizenship?...I just have no idea. For me and people in this area, its pretty up close and personal. I can drive down to Tacoma Park and see the day loborers waiting in parking lots for work. D.C. has a huge hispanic population. My best friend's father is from Cuba.

I've only been to Canada once, in Ottawa, but we stayed in a small town (Kempville maybe) outside the city. So I really have no clue what it is like up there.

But as far as emigration is concered, here is what I think:

I think it says alot for the US that people are willing to risk everything to start over in a foreign country. But then again, it might just be saying just how bad the economy is in other countries.

As far as lanuage, I think people coming in legal or not should be able to speak enough to get by, and if not, should learn as fast as possible. But along with this, our school system needs to do a better job taching our english speaking students spanish. If you start to learn a different lanuage at a very young age, it will be much easier to learn. But most american students dont take a foriegn lanuage course until high school, when their minds have developed in such a way that it is very hard to lean a foreign lanuage.

I think it should be easier for immigrants to get full citizenship, but I do not think you should be granted it if you just show up.

I also think one huge thing that has not been brought up yet is that as a country, the US needs to keep as many jobs in the US as we can. I personally think that this is huge. If we keep sending jobs over to asia, then there will not be any work for immigrants, leagal or illegal, or US born citizens.

just a few thoughts, hope they make sense.
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Post by Redskin in Canada »

redskins12287 wrote:Hey RIC, I'm just curious; what is it like in Canada with as far as first or sencond generation immigrants are concered? Are there alot? If so, where are they from? Is is easy to get citizenship?...
Canada is the best place in the world to live. Most Canadians are first or second generation Canadians. They come literally from every corner of the world. It is very easy to obtain a work permit. There is a temporary migrant labour force that comes and leaves -legally- and they are treated humanly with all rights and benefits. Once you take out the economic factor, citizenship does not have as much pressure. Some people are happy to have work permits, others are happy with permanent residence, yet others go all the way to acquire citizenship. ALL of them enjoy the same rights under the law and health care programs.

It can be a little chilly though ... :twisted:

Not for the faint of heart. You work twice as hard and make often less than our US counterparts. Some large cities have some of the problems associated with large urban areas but not as difficult as other large cities around the world. Most Canadians live in smaller and very pleasant medium to small cities and towns, quite a privilege if you ask me. :lol:

Canada is clean, beautiful, compassionate and the people are as respectful of others as they come anywhere else in the world. Not perfect but the best I have known according to my -limited- experience (as others have pointed out in this thread :wink: ).
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Post by REDEEMEDSKIN »

Redskin in Canada wrote:Canada is clean, beautiful, compassionate and the people are as respectful of others as they come anywhere else in the world.

Indeed. I've been to Canadá twice, and both times I've had wonderful experiences. I'm looking forward to going back sometime soon. My wife wants to visit the Falls in August. I'm really looking forward to it. :D
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Post by UK Skins Fan »

Redskin in Canada wrote:
Canada is the best place in the world to live

and also wrote:
Canada is clean, beautiful, compassionate and the people are as respectful of others as they come anywhere else in the world.


Canada is indeed a great place (although my experience of the place is largely limited to Vancouver, Whistler, and the road between them).

In my opinion, Canada's greatest asset may be the fact that it contains only 30 million or so people in an area the size of a small galaxy. Australia is also a fantastic place, possibly for the same reason.

You try fitting 60 million people onto an island the size of a tin can, and the place soon gets dirty, and people start to lose their compassion in a hurry. :)

Still, when global warming really strikes, our island will only be the size of half a tin can, and then things will really be cosy.

Anyway, I'm rambling. If anybody wants to get the thread back on topic, be my guest.
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Post by cvillehog »

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Post by UK Skins Fan »

redskins 12287 wrote:
I think it says alot for the US that people are willing to risk everything to start over in a foreign country. But then again, it might just be saying just how bad the economy is in other countries.


Well, if we substitute the US for the UK here, it might just be something to do with our overblown and insanely open benefits system. In our case, that might go some way to explaining the perception that so many asylum seekers feel the need to escape torture, famine and war to southern Europe, and then keep right on through to central Europe, and then still further through to France, and then across the English Channel to the UK, where asylum is promptly claimed (or they just disappear).

Now that, in my opinion, is when an asylum seeker becomes an economic migrant. And all nations should retain the right to control economic migrants. However, the important point is that the decision making process needs to be carried out in a logical and thoughtful manner, and not in a climate of fear, misinformation and hyperbole.
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Post by redskins12287 »

I enjoyed the week I spent in Canada, but I still have mixed feelings about it.

I will say this, the country is full of liars! Just joking, at least the people of Kempville. We styaed at this small agricultural school in Kempville, and there was this wierd small building and everyone told us it was an ice house. They said that in the winter they would bring in huge things of ice and store them there, or something ridiculous. We found out at some point that it was actually just some utility thing.

Tim Horton's is pretty sweet though.
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Post by UK Skins Fan »

cvillehog wrote:http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.htm

Now now, cvillehog, was there any need to go and bring politicians into this? :wink: I don't think we'll find any answers there.
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Post by REDEEMEDSKIN »

cvillehog wrote:http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.htm


In fairness to Dubya, I doubt he sang the "altered" version produced by Adam Kidron. But, I can see how Bush can be described as being a "flip-flopper" on the issue.
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Post by TincoSkin »

i went to canada three times; twice for skiing at tremblant and once for new years..

on new years i attended club vatican..

oh god i was trippin.. the walls were covered in fur and every thing was blue.. the open bar didnt help anything..

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Post by Redskin in Canada »

cvillehog wrote:http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.htm

Given that this has turned into one up manship, well then, take this:

http://www.sploid.com/news/2006/05/our_national_an.php

And -PLEASE- do not make this into another Bush thread. I am waiting for Crazyhorse to come here any time soon. ROTFALMAO
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Post by REDEEMEDSKIN »

Redskin in Canada wrote:
cvillehog wrote:http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.htm

Given that this has turned into one up manship, well then, take this:

http://www.sploid.com/news/2006/05/our_national_an.php

And -PLEASE- do not make this into another Bush thread. I am waiting for Crazyhorse to come here any time soon. ROTFALMAO

Good find. That original translation is true to the original and was commissioned by the U.S. Board of Education. :up:
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Post by Fios »

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
Redskin in Canada wrote:
cvillehog wrote:http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.htm

Given that this has turned into one up manship, well then, take this:

http://www.sploid.com/news/2006/05/our_national_an.php

And -PLEASE- do not make this into another Bush thread. I am waiting for Crazyhorse to come here any time soon. ROTFALMAO

Good find. That original translation is true to the original and was commissioned by the U.S. Board of Education. :up:


The fact that it's been in Spanish longer than it's been our national anthem really takes the wind out of the sails.
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