The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:UNREALISTIC expectations.

The guy who announced next year would be an undefeated season before training camp even opened (before the draft, even!) has accused ME of unrealistic expectations?!?

You're funny, kid. I definitely have to give you that!

Yep, I surely did and Imma call it again this year. The difference between your "humour" and mine is that Im joking and you're serious.

Nice reply too. You can't deny a single sentence from my last post and its clear by your reply.

Like you said, you're joking.

And if you were joking about an undefeated season, what happened to "100% pro-Redskins, 100% pro-Gibbs"? You're not wavering, are you? The driver of the bandwagon can't be having doubts!!

UK Skins Fan wrote:Fans always seem to think that "their" team could be better, if only it wasn't for that pesky coach and his crazy decisions.

True, but sometimes they're right. How many people around here miss Spurrier? <cue the crickets>

I admit that I think the Redskins overpaid by a long way to sign Brunell in the first place. I'll admit that he's not the best QB in the NFL. But somehow I think that Joe Gibbs knows more about quarterbacks than the rest of us.

Probably, but so? If you can second-guess him (which you did in your first sentence), then so can I.

What does my belief about us going undefeated have to do with my loyalty to the Skins or to Gibbs? I still believe in them 100% regardless if we do/dont go undefeated?

I'll keep chanting undefeated till we lose a game.
Ill keep chanting only 1 loss until we lose another and so on.
Thats just what I choose to do and for anyone who is a "fan" or not a fan Im going to hype the Skins up until you're sick of me and I could careless. Im going to hype them up just like I did to those Dallas fans that sat behind Jake and I last year.

You'll change your tune just like all of the late bandwagoneers did last season.

Mursilis wrote:200+ posts and they're all anti-Gibbs?

It'd be a more effective counter-argument if I had actually made a claim like that.

But since you bring it up, I am in fact basing this on your posting history and not simply on this thread. You are far from questioning Gibbs in every post, but to say that it isn't a noticeable trend is also dishonest.

Regarding Gibbs, I do think he's great, but I'm not one of those who thinks just because Gibbs says it, it's got to be the right call. Is he usually much more right than wrong? Obviously. Is he infallible? No.

You just described the opinion of approxiamately 100% of the board, yet this paragraph reads like it's a novel concept. Name a single person that honestly believes that Gibbs is infalible. Straw men are easy to burn. All that we're doing right now is throwing out what we think about an unknown (or have you been watching Campbell in practice?).

We're fans, we don't affect a single thing during the offseason. I fail to see how guarded optimism is any better than driving the bandwagon.


Ah well. This kind of debate happens far too often on this board.

A: "X player or decision sucks!"
B: "All of you haters are going to be disproven!"
A: "What, just because I question one thing makes me a hater? I actually love my team more because I'm willing to question it!"
B: "Well, I don't know about you, but I'm going with Gibbs on this one."
A: "Don't get me wrong, I like Gibbs too, I just don't think that he's perfect."
B: "I'm going with Gibbs because he's there every day in practice, what have you done?"
A: "I watched them all last season, and it's obvious that this isn't going to work out!"
B: "And so the option that you haven't seen yet has to be better?"

etc. etc.; repeat.

. . .right past each other, every time.

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:

Mursilis wrote:200+ posts and they're all anti-Gibbs?

It'd be a more effective counter-argument if I had actually made a claim like that.

But since you bring it up, I am in fact basing this on your posting history and not simply on this thread. You are far from questioning Gibbs in every post, but to say that it isn't a noticeable trend is also dishonest.

It's only a 'trend' in this whole QB debate. I've offered nothing but praise for all the other off-season moves (praised bringing on Saunders; praised signing Lloyd, Randle-el, Archuletta, Carter, etc.), and said several times I'm excited beyond belief about the coming season; I'm expecting great things.

Regarding Gibbs, I do think he's great, but I'm not one of those who thinks just because Gibbs says it, it's got to be the right call. Is he usually much more right than wrong? Obviously. Is he infallible? No.

You just described the opinion of approxiamately 100% of the board, yet this paragraph reads like it's a novel concept. Name a single person that honestly believes that Gibbs is infalible. Straw men are easy to burn.

Heck, from this very thread I pulled the following:

" IN GIBBS I TRUST " He has more football knowledge in his pinkee than any of us combined. He will do what feels is best for the team whether thats JC or MB and he will be right.....like always!

And that took no work at all. Plenty of people here can't/won't admit Gibbs has ever made a coaching mistake in his life. I don't really much care if people want to hold that position, but some (not all) of these same people will start suggesting anyone who disagrees is not a 'true' fan. I've disagreed with plenty of people here, but I've never questioned another fan's loyalty or commitment to this team. That's the sort of cheap shot that's becoming too common around here.

Mursilis wrote:And if you were joking about an undefeated season, what happened to "100% pro-Redskins, 100% pro-Gibbs"? You're not wavering, are you? The driver of the bandwagon can't be having doubts!!

That's why he's got "The Redeemed One" riding shotgun. I'm prayin' round-the-clock for CLL's faith in Gibbs to remain strong, even in the face of unwarranted criticism.

I'm with ya, CLL. The Skins are undefeated and are on pace to a perfect season!!!!

Mursilis wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:Fans always seem to think that "their" team could be better, if only it wasn't for that pesky coach and his crazy decisions.

True, but sometimes they're right. How many people around here miss Spurrier? <cue the crickets>

I admit that I think the Redskins overpaid by a long way to sign Brunell in the first place. I'll admit that he's not the best QB in the NFL. But somehow I think that Joe Gibbs knows more about quarterbacks than the rest of us.

Probably, but so? If you can second-guess him (which you did in your first sentence), then so can I.

Well, on point one, sometimes they are. But not as often as Joe. It's not that I would seek to prevent anyone else from questioning Gibb's decisions, but after all the good calls I've known him to make, I'm not about to start down that path myself. I'm excited about the prospect of Campbell playing (and playing well), but I can wait until Joe thinks it's time.

On point two, I think Joe may have second guessed himself on this very point in the past. I don't suppose I'll find the link now, but I distinctly remember an article where he implied that the Redskins had been caught out on some contracts that they handed out when he first came back. He didn't of course mention Brunell by name, but his contract is the obvious overspend. Plus, I don't think Joe was responsible for the contract anyway. In Year 1, I suspect he had to leave that entirely in the hands of others.

Hey how bout some Jason Cambell Vids, his senior year at AUB would be a good highlight reel.

Rember Gibss won 3 Superbowls with 3 different QB's. (Also 3 different RB's & 5 different starting WR's). We'll all know more more about Campbell's readiness after he plays some.

Rember Gibss won 3 Superbowls with 3 different QB's. (Also 3 different RB's & 5 different starting WR's). We'll all know more more about Campbell's readiness after he plays some.

Yes, 3 different QB's, but only one center.

Just a quick observation about Campbell:

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe one of the knocks on Jason coming out of Auburn was that his throwing motion was quite long. I think the picture from The Washington Post illustrates it well:



The longer the throwing motion, the longer it takes for the ball to be released from the pocket and get to the reciever. In the NFL, it could easily be the difference between a completion and an interception. In addition, the longer the arm and ball are exposed, the greater the chances of a fumble or an arm injury. Compare that to someone like Peyton Manning, whose throwing motion is short and compact:



Now obviously, a single picture is no way to evaluate a throwing motion, and even if he hasn't improved in that department (which I doubt), it still wouldn't preclude him from becoming an effective quarterback. Still, it's something to keep an eye on, and it will be interesting to see if how he looks this preseason compared to a year ago.

Mechanics are learned & can be unlearned. That's what position coaches are for.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:Just a quick observation about Campbell:

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe one of the knocks on Jason coming out of Auburn was that his throwing motion was quite long. I think the picture from The Washington Post illustrates it well:

Gibbs said last year after the draft that he didn't have a problem with Campbell's throwing motions and that they wouldn't be altered

Quarterback Campbell Is Hitting the Books
He Studies New Offense in Effort to Move Up the Depth Chart
By Jason La Canfora
Washington Post Staff Writer

Each Monday afternoon, Washington Redskins quarterback Jason Campbell and first-year quarterbacks coach Bill Lazor head to the deserted practice fields at Redskins Park to review the meticulous footwork of the Redskins' new offense, refining every precise pivot and swivel of the hips. For months they have met alone on a day when the team's practice facility is largely empty. Just a player, a coach, a football, a massive playbook and a vast potential they hope to fulfill.

After watching from the sideline as a rookie in 2005, Campbell, 24, is positioned to push for the backup job behind veteran Mark Brunell this season, and, should Brunell get injured, perhaps make his NFL debut.

Link to Post Article

I am excited about this kid and believe that Gibbs thinks he has the potential to be a very good QB - that's good enough for me. I am sure that he will get a lot of assistance from the coaches and players in the coming weeks.
We are very lucky to have the experience and leadership of Brunell for now but soon it is going to be Campbell's team and I am confident we will have a very capable QB.

I wonder how Al feels about Jasons throwing motion.

Pictures can be deceiving. A QB's throwing motion will vary according to the type of pass ie a quick slant vs a deep sideline through.

Getting rid of Patrick was one of the dumb moves of all time. Brunell's going to go down early and Campbell's going to prove not ready. Collins is a joke. The reason will be ruined because Gibbs has an irrational dislike of the best QB we had in camp, all things considered: health, arm, record, age, experience.

Edited for profanity.

crazyhorse1 wrote:Getting rid of Patrick was one of the dumb moves of all time. Brunell's going to go down early and Campbell's going to prove not ready. Collins is a joke. The reason will be ruined because Gibbs has an irrational dislike of the best QB we had in camp, all things considered: health, arm, record, age, experience.

No, blantantly breaking the rules is one of the dumbest moves of all time.

Getting rid of a QB who is immobile & froze in the face of a decent pass rush was dumb???? What would you consider smart?