Campbell To Compete For No. 2 Spot In Training Camp

[SkinzCanes]

So did Darrell Green, whats your point? They both are/were still effective and valuable assets to the team.

The difference is that Darrell wasn't an injury risk. In 14 NFL seasons Brunell has only played all 16 games in a season twice. I'm not saying Brunell doesn't have the talent to play qb because I think he does. I just can't imagine a scenario with him under center where he will be healthy going into the playoffs. [/quote]

[Chris Luva Luva]

He was given a chance during the preseason and look horrible. Who's fault is that?
Rothersburger looked horrible in the preseason also, I think he did okay. Or maybe its just me, so did Hasselback. Presiason doesn't mean anyhting anyone that has half a brain knows that.

I guess Gibbs is half a brain like me. Preseason/camp was Ramseys chance to prove himself. NOT THE REGULAR SEASON. During his CHANCE to win the job HE DID NOT WIN IT. Your problem isn't with me, its with Gibbs and looked how his decision turned out. Thats why he's where he's at.

Stop comparing Ramsey to everyone else and judge him on his performances.

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

If the Steelers offered me Big Ben for Campell I would do it in a flash and everyone on this board would too.

You're absolutely right, cause Big Ben has proven to work well in a system, whereas Campbell hasn't yet. Which makes Big Ben a perfect fit for the system that Joe's building.

Wait....

I done went and confused myself.

[John Manfreda]

If Campbell ends up as our 3rd string QB... then what a waste of draft picks. I don't believe that Gibbs and staff could have been that wrong about moving up to draft Campbell if they were not at least somewhat confident that he could perform and be our future.

Gibbs is just trying to say the right thing here. The only thing that Brunell can offer that Jason can't is experience. Jason can out perform Brunell in every other catagory. He can run faster, scramble better and has a much stronger and more accurate arm than Brunell. Campbell had a different offensive coordinator all 4 years at Auburn, meaning he had to learn a new offense every year. Jason is very intelligent and learns quickly.

Why do I say this.. because I have seen Campbell play quite a bit. Some of you may remember me saying this a while ago. After we drafted Campbell, I TIVO'ed all of Auburns games from the prior season. They replay all the SEC games in the off-season here in Florida. I was VERY impressed, as were all the commentators in every game. Seeing him play in a couple of preseason games last year with the 2nd and 3rd string teams does not give a accurate picture of this guys capabilities. He is a true stud. They say "don't knock it til' you've tried it." I say "don't knock him til' you've seen him."

Now, with that said, I like Brunell. He has done a fine job for us. I also feel quite comfortable that Gibbs and Saunders will make the right choice. The better man will obviously start. But IMO, playing Brunell will only postpone our future. I am pulling for Campbell, as that is evident. He will bring a new and better dynamic to the offense.

That's not a fair assessment. I believe that Mark would outperform Jason against the very same SEC teams Auburn played that year. I'm convinced, that, if given the chance, he could certainly lead those Auburn kids to a national championship.

He never lead Auburn to a national championship, Auburn played a padded out of confrence schedule that year so they didn't get consideration for the national championship.

[The Hogster]

Thank God most of these so-called "Know it alls" aren't running our team.

Here's what we would have:

Trung Canidate @ RB
Champ Bailey
Kellen Winslow @TE
Ifeanye Ohalete @ Safety
Mike Williams @ Wide out
Ramsey @ QB

Boy, we'd be a losing team. All some of you prove with your comments are that you would be great a putting together a losing team.

You make yourselves look like cry-babies by moaning and complaining about Gibbs' moves...then you look even more ridiculous when those decisions prove to be correct.

What puzzles the heck out of me is how you can get up here and call Campbell a waste of a pick blah blah, and cry and moan that he's not going to be good. But whenever someone expresses confidence in his abilities, you claim that "we don't know" that he's good.

Well, by the same logic, you can't say that he's bad either.

Just shut up and do your job, which is being a fan, and watching the game. Let the coaches coach, the players play, and you sit there with your wine cooler and just watch.

HINT: GIBBS KNOWS MORE THAN YOU....GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK, PESSIMISTIC HEADS.

[Chris Luva Luva]

So did Darrell Green, whats your point? They both are/were still effective and valuable assets to the team.

The difference is that Darrell wasn't an injury risk. In 14 NFL seasons Brunell has only played all 16 games in a season twice. I'm not saying Brunell doesn't have the talent to play qb because I think he does. I just can't imagine a scenario with him under center where he will be healthy going into the playoffs.

Nobody imagined Portis getting 1500 yards
nobody imagined Santana getting 1400+ yards
Nobody imagined us being the best in the east
nobody imageind us going to the playoffs
nobody imagined gibbs staying

Anybody is a liability to injury. His injury would have hampered any QB on our roster. Kyle Bollers mechanics were effected by a toe injury, any little thing can effect a QB of ANY age.

People seem to blame Brunell for our loss to SEA and thats 110% ignorant.

[Steve Spurrier III]

I agree but its only year 2. Brady didn't start right away. Gibbs knows what he's doing.

Brady started 14 games in his second season (and was the Super Bowl MVP). I'm not sure how that it is an argument for sitting Campbell.

I haven't gone over this with you at all. The only difference here is the blocking schemes. Sure Jason won't be hit but his confidence still can sink just like Ramseys did. Reading coverages wrong, throwing picks, possibly losing games will illadvised throws... Its all a possibility and a very real one.

Ramsey only sat out three games before he had to play. You don't see a difference between that and Campbell sitting out a full season?

How often in the history of the sport has that happened? Once. He is the 1 in 2 billion chance that things like that happen. He is not the norm.

How often has a quarterback played in his rookie season and gone on to have a good career? Quite often. How often has a quarterback played in his first two seasons and gone on to have a good career? It happens all the time. There is no evidence that playing Campbell this year or last is going to ruin him. (For that matter, we have no way of knowing that the reason Ramsey hasn't developed properly is because of the way he was treated in Year 1.)

There are reasons not to play Campbell. The Patrick Ramsey Experience is not one of them.

[crazyhorse1]

Okay, let's look. As you said, in the Gibbs era:

Ramsey played in 13 games. 1944 yards (1665 in 2004, 279 in 2005). 11 TDs, 12 INTs, 1 fumble (not lost).

Brunell played in 25 games. 4244 yards (1194 in 2004, 3050 in 2005). 30 TDs, 16 INTs, 6 fumbles (3 lost).

Check your stats. Brunell had 6 fumles in 2004 (3 lost) and 11 fumbles last season (6 lost).

So in terms of turnover it's a lot closer than you make it out to seem. 12 tunrovers for Ramsey and 25 for Brunell in the games that they have played. Ramsey's td/turnover ratio isn't very good but Brunell's isn't exactly something to brag about either.

I accept your figures without arguing debatable points and still point out that Ramsey's turnover figures are superior to Brunell's even so. I think this is of importanct; people have the perception that Ramsey has been a turnover maching and Brunell careful with the ball. The perception is nonsense. Ramsey has received a bad rap here for this and it is simply not true. Nor is it true that he failed here as a qb. Stats may lie but they tell at least part of the story.
The guy has been a productive Redskin qb. He has averaged enough yards per game to have compiled 3,000 plus yd seasons, and HAS NOT been a liability in re to turning the ball over.
The Jets suckered us Big Time, taking advantage (as other teams tried) of Gibb's dislike for a talented player. It will haunt us.

[SkinzCanes]

I agree but its only year 2. Brady didn't start right away. Gibbs knows what he's doing.

Tom Brady started 14 games in his second NFL season and won the Super Bowl. Just like Big Ben won the Super Bowl in his second pro season. Not saying that Campbell can do that but recent history shows that younger qb's can be very succesful early on in their careers..

[Chris Luva Luva]

I accept your figures without arguing debatable points and still point out that Ramsey's turnover figures are superior to Brunell's even so. I think this is of importanct; people have the perception that Ramsey has been a turnover maching and Brunell careful with the ball. The perception is nonsense. Ramsey has received a bad rap here for this and it is simply not true. Nor is it true that he failed here as a qb. Stats may lie but they tell at least part of the story.
The guy has been a productive Redskin qb. He has averaged enough yards per game to have compiled 3,000 plus yd seasons, and HAS NOT been a liability in re to turning the ball over.
The Jets suckered us Big Time, taking advantage (as other teams tried) of Gibb's dislike for a talented player. It will haunt us.

Even if I thought Ramsey was worth a ham sandwich why does it matter? Why complain over spilled milk? He's gone, he's not a redskin move on. If you love him so much go to the Jets board and become a fan.

[PulpExposure]

Check your stats. Brunell had 6 fumles in 2004 (3 lost) and 11 fumbles last season (6 lost).

According to ESPN's page is what I used. But according to NFL.com, you're right. And Ramsey according to NFL.com had 8 fumbles, 2 lost in those 2 years (while none according to ESPN).

Not sure why there's such a discrepancy. But the TD ratio still exists, and it's massive.

[John Manfreda]

He was given a chance during the preseason and look horrible. Who's fault is that?
Rothersburger looked horrible in the preseason also, I think he did okay. Or maybe its just me, so did Hasselback. Presiason doesn't mean anyhting anyone that has half a brain knows that.

I guess Gibbs is half a brain like me. Preseason/camp was Ramseys chance to prove himself. NOT THE REGULAR SEASON. During his CHANCE to win the job HE DID NOT WIN IT. Your problem isn't with me, its with Gibbs and looked how his decision turned out. Thats why he's where he's at.

Stop comparing Ramsey to everyone else and judge him on his performances.

So you are syang if a team is good in the preseason they will be good during the regular season. I guess u thought the Skins were going to the Superbowl with Spurrier.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I agree but its only year 2. Brady didn't start right away. Gibbs knows what he's doing.

Tom Brady started 14 games in his second NFL season and won the Super Bowl. Just like Big Ben won the Super Bowl in his second pro season. Not saying that Campbell can do that but recent history shows that younger qb's can be very succesful early on in their careers..

Why do we need to go by everyone elses schedule?
Do we gain players via the draft like everyone else? No.
Gibbs is marching to the beat of his own drum and the players are right behind him. Its funny how people are so anxious to fall right back into the habits of the pre-Gibbs2 era. Let them man work his magic and sit back.

[John Manfreda]

I agree but its only year 2. Brady didn't start right away. Gibbs knows what he's doing.

Tom Brady started 14 games in his second NFL season and won the Super Bowl. Just like Big Ben won the Super Bowl in his second pro season. Not saying that Campbell can do that but recent history shows that younger qb's can be very succesful early on in their careers..

Why do we need to go by everyone elses schedule?
Do we gain players via the draft like everyone else? No.
Gibbs is marching to the beat of his own drum and the players are right behind him. Its funny how people are so anxious to fall right back into the habits of the pre-Gibbs2 era. Let them man work his magic and sit back.

We didn't build through the draft pre-Gibbs era, remember the Jet-Skins, 100 million dollar team, this is how we always did it. Its just Gibbs is doing the shopping now and not Snyder.

[The Hogster]

Hey, being the great friend I am, I picked up a book from Barnes and Nobel for Crazyhorse, Mursilis and others.

[PulpExposure]

people have the perception that Ramsey has been a turnover maching and Brunell careful with the ball. The perception is nonsense. Ramsey has received a bad rap here for this and it is simply not true. Nor is it true that he failed here as a qb. Stats may lie but they tell at least part of the story.
The guy has been a productive Redskin qb. He has averaged enough yards per game to have compiled 3,000 plus yd seasons, and HAS NOT been a liability in re to turning the ball over.

The dude never produced points for us. His TD:Int ratio throughout his career is freaking miserable. 34:29 is an average NFL career. I think he got his shot, and never took advantage of the opportunities presented.

I like Ramsey, a lot. I was really excited when we drafted him. Smart kid, good kid, good arm. Sounds like a recipe.

He never developed like I wanted or expected him to. Most of that, I firmly believe, was due to Spurrier and his loony blocking scheme that got QBs killed. Ramsey never developed any pocket sense, and never developed an ability to read the field. That's critical for a young QB, more so than the physical attributes (see Joe Montana for a good example of a physically average QB who was a hall of famer). Then he started whining about being traded when Gibbs arrived. That really soured me on him, especially when given the opportunity to play his way to be the starting QB, he sucked in preseason. Really awful.

Sure, you can say he didn't get a fair shot this year, and I won't argue that (I think he got jobbed, also). But up until Brunell got injured, he was playing at a level I had never seen Ramsey play at.

I don't know if you could say that Ramsey would have a 23 TD 10 int season. That's what Brunell had, with literally one starting quality receiver.

[SkinzCanes]

Nobody imagined Portis getting 1500 yards
nobody imagined Santana getting 1400+ yards
Nobody imagined us being the best in the east
nobody imageind us going to the playoffs
nobody imagined gibbs staying

Anybody is a liability to injury. His injury would have hampered any QB on our roster. Kyle Bollers mechanics were effected by a toe injury, any little thing can effect a QB of ANY age.

People seem to blame Brunell for our loss to SEA and thats 110% ignorant.

Nobody imagined Portis running for 1500 yards? That's what he was doing in Denver and that's why we traded so much to get him. He did exactly what he should be doing.

Sure nobody saw Moss getting those yards but he was a former first round pick and the potential was always there.

We finished second in the East.

Gibbs signed a 5 year contract so I'm not sure who you're referring to when you say that people didn't expect him to stay 5 years.

You're right most people didn't expect us to make the playoffs.

However, none of these things that you've mentioned have anything to do with Brunell staying healthy. Looking at a player's durability and injury history isn't exactly rocket science. If a player has only started a full season twice in 14 years then it's pretty rediculous to assume that at the age of 36 Brunell can suddenly turn around his injury history and stay healthy for a Super Bowl run. Going back to your previous examples....Portis had a history of racking up 1500 yard seasons, just like Brunell has a history of getting injured.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I don't know if you could say that Ramsey would have a 23 TD 10 int season. That's what Brunell had, with literally one starting quality receiver.

Pfftt...I doubt it. Not the way he liked to force the ball into coverage. I want the best guy to be in there. I wanted Brunell out in 2004. Ramsey failed to impress me in 2005 and I supported Brunell. I support Brunell again because he's the best choice at the MOMENT.

[PulpExposure]

However, none of these things that you've mentioned have anything to do with Brunell staying healthy. Looking at a player's durability and injury history isn't exactly rocket science. If a player has only started a full season twice in 14 years then it's pretty rediculous to assume that at the age of 36 Brunell can suddenly turn around his injury history and stay healthy for a Super Bowl run. Going back to your previous examples....Portis had a history of racking up 1500 yard seasons, just like Brunell has a history of getting injured.

You're right about the durability issue. And it IS an issue. I figure you get Brunell ready to start the season, then when he gets injured, put in Campbell as the natural successor. But I don't know how they're going to do it.

How about we let Gibbs decide how to deal with it? He started Brunell this year, and the guy really DID play well for us.

[TincoSkin]

I agree but its only year 2. Brady didn't start right away. Gibbs knows what he's doing.

Tom Brady started 14 games in his second NFL season and won the Super Bowl. Just like Big Ben won the Super Bowl in his second pro season. Not saying that Campbell can do that but recent history shows that younger qb's can be very succesful early on in their careers..

well if campbell cant do that then whats the argument?

also, tom brady was the biggest, where did he come from ever in the NFL short of a couple well know 49ers. and big ben was proven solid after his first year till he got injured. and its not like ben won the superbowl, his defence did, did you even watch the playoffs last year or the actual superbowl. in addition last years playoffs was filled with rebuilding teams and major injurys. if cinci hadnt had their qbs knee smashed sideways i bet wed be having a conversation about brady and palmer.

if anyone won the superbowl it was the refs.

gibbs obviosly has a plan. if you dont trust the guy that brought us to three superbowl victories then you should go stick you head in the sand.

[TincoSkin]

i need to work on my spelling, or reading what i write! yikes

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

it's pretty rediculous to assume that at the age of 36 Brunell can suddenly turn around his injury history...

Since when is a QBs ability measured by his ability to change events that happaned in the past?? Can any QB "turn around history"??? Does Campbell have these super-human powers Brunell lacks??

[SkinzCanes]

How about we let Gibbs decide how to deal with it? He started Brunell this year, and the guy really DID play well for us.

You're totally right. Brunell did very well for us, much better than anybody could've imagined. Like I said I have no concern about Brunell's talent and skill, it's his age and durability that I'm worried about.

[crazyhorse1]

Totally true. Frankly, a lot of us fans of facing the facts, are becoming extremely fatigued with a-factual representations of Ramsey performances and so called failures. His stats are better than Brunell's as a Redskin... he's gained far more yards than Brunell in fewer games and, in the Gibbs era-- under identical conditions Brunell faced-- done a better job not turning the ball over.

Yes, you read correctly. Check it out yourself. You've let an imaginery world supersede the real one.

Okay, let's look. As you said, in the Gibbs era:

Ramsey played in 13 games. 1944 yards (1665 in 2004, 279 in 2005). 11 TDs, 12 INTs, 1 fumble (not lost).

Brunell played in 25 games. 4244 yards (1194 in 2004, 3050 in 2005). 30 TDs, 16 INTs, 6 fumbles (3 lost).

So, let's see what assertions you made. The yardage thing is silly, since Ramsey has never even thrown for 3000 yards in a season. Heck, his career high is 2166 yards under Spurrier. If you look at the numbers above, Ramsey has played in roughly half the number of games Brunell did. And if you do the math, twice his total of 1944 is 3888. Brunell has 4244, which...is more.

The turnover thing? Ramsey had 12 turnovers in 13 games under Gibbs, meaning .92 turnovers per game.

Brunell had 19 turnovers in 25 games. 0.76 turnovers per game.

Let's look at touchdowns, that's fun too (and neither had a rushing TD under Gibbs). Ramsey had 10 TDs in 13 games, meaning .77 touchdowns per game. Brunell had 30 TDs in 25 games, meaning 1.2 TDs per game.

So...let's see. Ramsey committed 21% more turnovers per game, and Brunell produced 64% more touchdowns per game. Brunell has thrown for more yards.

Please don't let the facts get in the way of what you want to say.

Wouldn't want to ruin your day, but you've eliminated six of Brunell's lost fumbles from the record books and counted brief appearances by Ramsey as full games and reported Ramsey's yardage totals for half seasons as yardage totals for full seasons. Good job. I'd be happy to pay you big bucks to spruce up my resume.

[PulpExposure]

Wouldn't want to ruin your day, but you've eliminated six of Brunell's lost fumbles from the record books

I used ESPN stats, as I posted above, and they mentioned only 2 fumbles. I already addressed this.

and counted brief appearances by Ramsey as full games and reported Ramsey's yardage totals for half seasons as yardage totals for full seasons.

Never said full seasons. I just took pure games played. And there were more than a few games Brunell got injured early and didn't finish.