¡¡¡¡Interesting Rumor!!!

[DCGloryYears828791]

KC would never do that.

KC would never do that ????

are u implying the Redskins would? We could throw in Jason Campbell and this years 2nd round pick and get dante hall and sweeten the deal a little more.

[wormer]

KC would never do that.

KC would never do that ????

are u implying the Redskins would? We could throw in Jason Campbell and this years 2nd round pick and get dante hall and sweeten the deal a little more.

Dude, seriously, LJ is a "b-e-a-s-t - BEAST!!" I have NOTHING against Portis, he is tough as nails, but I'll take LJ over Portis ANY day.

LJ is a top 3 back easy. Some would argue he is the BEST back in football. Don't laugh. I might take Alexander right NOW over him but might not long term. Seriously, I can't think of one other back I'd rather have over LJ. Can anyone else? Think about it? Go through all the teams. See...!

LJ out produced Portis in EVERY statistical category and played 1/2 as many games!

Show me a NFL scout who likes Portis over LJ and I'll show you a guy who won't be in a job very long.

Johnson: Rush: 336 YRDS: 1750 Ave: 5.2 TD's20 Recpt: 33 Yrds: 343 Ave: 10.4 TD: 1

Portis: Rush: 385 YRDS: 1610 Ave 4.2 TD's12 Recpt: 33 Yrds: 222 Ave: 6.7 TD: 0

I agree that the offensive play calling HELPED LJ but it does not account for ALL the difference.

Plus LJ has a lot less wear and tear.

Ramsey has little to no value. Everyone knows we want to dump him. My guess is we get a 4th rounder for him AT BEST.

So it's 2nd and 4th for quite possibly the best back in football at the start of his career? Not to mention he is SIGNIFIGANTLY bigger than Portis. He's like the black Riggo. Sign me up Sandy baby.

Here is the bottom line: No one knows if this is true or not, BUT, if there is ANY truth to this rumor, who knows LJ better than our NEW OC Saunders??? There is NO mystery here as Sounders has coached him for the past 3 years.

The wormer has spoken.

[Redskin in Canada]

The wormer has spoken.

I thought "he" had -typed-.

Let me put it clearly: I would NOT trade Portis for L J in a straight-up one-to-one trade. Happy? Good!

The production of a RB is a function of MANY factors. Play calling is one. They stacked the box against us because they wanted to challenge Brnell to throw, and it worked.

Their offensive line with W. Roaf is a power to reckoned with. Without Roaf is not as great.

Portis is a more versatile RB/receiver off the flat. He has not been used to his full potential. And as far as character and leadership, I agree, there is no comparison. L J is a bum compared to our man Portis.

let us put a stop to this nonsense now: Would Joe trade a player that HE brought in and played with so much dedication and success in the last two seasons? No, absolutely not.

There you have it. It is the offseason. The rumour is meningless, except for some of us that like to discuss it.

[1niksder]

Portis and Johnson are both young... but isn't one of them fresh out of diapers?

[Hogfather]

Wormer

LJ out produced Portis in EVERY statistical category and played 1/2 as many games!

Fumbles & Fumbles Lost:
Portis in 16 games 3 fumbles, 2 lost.
LJ in 8 games 5 fumbles, 4 lost.
Bottom Line don't drop the ROCK!

[Chris Luva Luva]

Im curious when Portis was in Denver how did his numbers stack up against LJ?

I only bring this up because this system currently is not Portis friendly. If we are to compare the two with any sort of accuracy Id compare Denver Portis against LJ.

Like many have said, Portis has the intangibles that make him a better player than LJ. He doesn't whine, he blocks for the QB and he doesn't drop the rock. Portis is doing more than enough to carry us to the superbowl we just need other players to get the attention off of him.

If we had the efficiency of the KC offense Portis would have even better stats. The fact that he got 1500+ yards with a lot of 8 man fronts is amazing.

[wormer]

Come on guys. Portis better than Johnson???

That's just homer talk.

[BossHog]

Come on guys. Portis better than Johnson???

That's just homer talk.

LJ had one good season... nay, one great season. I honestly don't see what else he has proven other than that he had a great year.

He is the beneficiary of an excellent offensive line that has been honing it's run blocking since Priest Holmes started single-handedly winning fantasy pools.

He WAS the beneficiary of an excellent offensive scheme... but now Saunders is on the Redskins staff.

I like LJ and everything but I fail to understand how someone could actually be insulted that someone compares Portis to LJ.

after all... CP has posted 1300+ yards in his first four seasons... one of only 4 backs ever... he's posted 1500+ yards in 3 of his 4 seasons... CP is a football player as any Redskin fan knows... he blocks well... he's a team leader... LJ is neither of those two things. In fact, his egoism is quite well documented and not all that well received by the team sometimes.

You can have your opinion on lJ and his relative merits, but the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side. You're entitled to your beliefs but I'm willing to bet that there are a fair few NON-REDSKIN fans that would easily put CP in LJ's 'calibre'.

Are they homers too?

2005 was Larry johnson's THIRD SEASON... he has a total of 2400 yards... yes he was behind Holmes on the depth chart but Portis knocked all incumbents out of the starting role in his rookie season in Denver... not his third year when a guy got hurt... in his rookie year. In fact, in Portis' first 3 seasons... he posted 4400 yards... 2000 more yards!

And your insulted that someone might put CP in the same league as LJ?

And where's all this talk of 'half the games' coming from? Clinton Portis played in the exact same number of games that LJ did... 16. LJ may not have got the starting nod until week 8, but it's not like he wasn't playing before that. He got the start in week 6 too because Holmes got slightly hurt and then 'more hurt' if you remember. But LJ ws playing... and spelling Holmes in much the same manner that Betts does Portis. You can't just say that he played half the games... you can say that he started 9 games and was a part-timer in the other 7, but saying he played in half the games is extremely misleading IMO.

When LJ has put up his numbers for a few more consecutive years then maybe you can be insulted... but until then, I think it could easily be less 'homer' and more 'looking at more than just one season' that allows people to see CP in the same light as LJ.

[Steve Spurrier III]

Im curious when Portis was in Denver how did his numbers stack up against LJ?

Portis: 26 starts with Denver, 2895 yards, 115.8 per start
Johnson: 12 starts, 1627 yards, 135.6 per start

Johnson still comes out on top. And remember, the fact that Johnson has significantly less mileage on his body makes him much more valuable. Johnson is a slightly better reciever, but Portis is a much better blocker. It's close, but you would have to give the edge to Johnson - especially if you consider his age.

But I can't imagine this happening, simply it seems like a whole lot of work for just a marginal improvement.

2005 was Larry johnson's THIRD SEASON... he has a total of 2400 yards...In fact, in Portis' first 3 seasons... he posted 4400 yards... 2000 more yards!

Again, those yards certainly prove that Portis has accomplished more, but he is going to pay the price for those 2000 extra yards. The shelf life for running backs is very short, and the fact that Johnson hasn't gotten the same kind of playing time as Portis works in Johnson's favor, at least in terms of predicting future production.

The way Portis plays - he runs and blocks so hard - you have to wonder how much longer he's going to be an elite player, even though he's only 24. You might laugh, but remember that Terrell Davis broke down in his fifth year - it's just such a brutal position to play.

[hkHog]

It's close, but you would have to give the edge to Johnson - especially if you consider his age.

Uh-huh, you mean the fact that Portis (24) is two years YOUNGER than LJ (26)!

Portis DOB - September 1, 1981

Johnson DOB - November 19, 1979

[Steve Spurrier III]

It's close, but you would have to give the edge to Johnson - especially if you consider his age.

Uh-huh, you mean the fact that Portis (24) is two years YOUNGER than LJ (26)!

Portis DOB - September 1, 1981

Johnson DOB - November 19, 1979

The amount of carries are much more damaging than Father Time.

[BossHog]

Give the edge to johnson because of his age?

He's two years OLDER than Clinton.

Do you just also IGNORE their realtive college careers when talking about wear and tear? Remember that LJ broke the 2000 yard barrier in his senior season - CP declared as a junior and didn't even HAVE a senior season... DEFINITELY worth noting in terms of wear and tear.

LJ also was the kick retruner at PSU and logged another 1350 yards of wear on special teams. Doesn't that count too? Incidentally... for kicks and giggles... LJ had 5045 all-purpose yards at PSU... CP had 2795 yards... a difference of 2250 yards... so there's your 2000 yards of wear and tear back.

Receptions:

Portis - 30 receptions in 2005 to LJ's 33... huge difference in catching ability there.

Portis - 111 receptions in his first 3 seasons (141 career total) to LJ's 56. Still struggling to see how this is much more than the grass being greener on the other side.

[Steve Spurrier III]

Do you just also IGNO2RE their realtive college careers when talking about wear and tear? Remember that LJ broke the 2000 yard barrier in his senior season - CP declared as a junior and didn't even HAVE a senior season... DEFINITELY worth noting in terms of wear and tear.

... for kicks and giggles... LJ had 5045 all-purpose yards at PSU... CP had 2795 yards... a difference of 2250 yards... so there's your 2000 yards of wear and tear back.

Their college careers are relevant, and it was my mistake to omit them, but let's not pretend that 2000 college yards are the same as 2000 yards in the NFL. In college, you get tackled. In the NFL, you get beaten into the turf.

And let's not discount the job Portis does blocking. Some of the most brutal hits he took this year were in pass protection - something that Johnson doesn't do very well.

I don't see how you can really believe that Portis hasn't sustained more damage over the years than Johnson - but my only point is that those four years of extreme amounts of carries and blocking are going to take a toll on Portis. Look at the end of this season, was there any body part on Portis that wasn't injured?

Somehow, I think that Portis taking a beating against the AFC West is a bit tougher than Johnson running through the Big East.

Receptions:

Portis - 30 receptions in 2005 to LJ's 33... huge difference in catching ability there.

Portis - 111 receptions in his first 3 seasons (141 career total) to LJ's 56. Still struggling to see how this is much more than the grass being greener on the other side.

Except that Johnson has averaged 11.1 yards a catch to Portis's 8.0 (6.4 with the Redskins). I think those three yards back up my "slightly better reciever" assertation.

[hkHog]

Give the edge to johnson because of his age?

He's two years OLDER than Clinton.

Do you just also IGNORE their realtive college careers when talking about wear and tear? Remember that LJ broke the 2000 yard barrier in his senior season - CP declared as a junior and didn't even HAVE a senior season... DEFINITELY worth noting in terms of wear and tear.

LJ also was the kick retruner at PSU and logged another 1350 yards of wear on special teams. Doesn't that count too? Incidentally... for kicks and giggles... LJ had 5045 all-purpose yards at PSU... CP had 2795 yards... a difference of 2250 yards... so there's your 2000 yards of wear and tear back.

Receptions:

Portis - 30 receptions in 2005 to LJ's 33... huge difference in catching ability there.

Portis - 111 receptions in his first 3 seasons (141 career total) to LJ's 56. Still struggling to see how this is much more than the grass being greener on the other side.

You're exactly right. Also remember that LJ runs with a much more punishing style and he is a big target. One of the reasons there aren't many tall backs in the league anymore is that they are prone to taking big hits.

However, I think the main point is that when it comes down to the intangibles like leadership, character, a football brain, etc... Portis has all of them in spades! It's those things that seperate the very good players from the truly great. Clinton isn't just a RB, he is a FOOTBALL PLAYER through and through! Statistics alone do not measure his true value (even though his are very similar to LJs).

BTW, in Denver Portis had more yards/carry than LJ has.

[Steve Spurrier III]

BTW, in Denver Portis had more yards/carry than LJ has.

So does Tatum Bell. What's your point?

[hkHog]

BTW, in Denver Portis had more yards/carry than LJ has.

So does Tatum Bell. What's your point?

Didn't you just tell Boss that the fact that Johnson had 3 more yards/catch makes Johnson a better reciever?

It also shows that he took less punishment to put up his incredible numbers in those years than LJ did last year.

Also, don't think that LJ was so amazing "because he only played half the games." Over the season LJ only had 16 less carries than Portis (336 vs. 352).

[BossHog]

I think your splitting hairs when you talk about the difference between 'college yards' and 'NFL yards' in terms of just the wear and tear. i could just as easily point out that SPECIAL TEAMS yardage are just that much more 'wearing' at any level... you're getting 'beaten into the turf' to end pretty much every play.

LJ may be a slightly better receiver, but it isn't glaring... and I'm not for one second trying to take ANYTHING away from LJ's abilities... my assertion here is STRICTLY that the comparisons are legitimate and not homerish.

Personally... numbers and stats have nothing to do with it for me. Clinton has shown me in his time here that he is a COMPLETE football player... not just a good back. He's become a team leader... at 24-years old, that speaks volumes for both his charisma and his work ethic... you can't 'fool' your teammates.

He is a team spokesperson. Can't just dismiss that... his light-heartedness may not be appeciated or enjoyed by all, but his teammates seem to like it don't they? Cp's still out there taking it on the chin from the press when the Redskins lose.

He is tough as nails. Yes he was banged up badly last year but Cp always wanted to be in there didn't he? Warrior mentality... and perhaps the single biggest reason that I would take Clinton over probably any back in the NFL.

He may come from the U and have a bit of flare, but in his heart, he is a lunch pail type guy.

A guy that is worthy of my highest compliment that I can play to any football player... Clinton Portis is a Hog.

[Steve Spurrier III]

I think your splitting hairs when you talk about the difference between 'college yards' and 'NFL yards' in terms of just the wear and tear. i could just as easily point out that SPECIAL TEAMS yardage are just that much more 'wearing' at any level... you're getting 'beaten into the turf' to end pretty much every play.

Special Teams yards are probably more wearing, but I fail to see how that is relevant. Neither Johnson nor Portis played special teams.

LJ may be a slightly better receiver, but it isn't glaring... and I'm not for one second trying to take ANYTHING away from LJ's abilities... my assertion here is STRICTLY that the comparisons are legitimate and not homerish.

My exact quote was "Johnson is a slightly better reciever". I never called him Larry Centers.

He is tough as nails. Yes he was banged up badly last year but Cp always wanted to be in there didn't he?

Of course he did, but that doesn't mean any less damage was being done to his body.

I agree that Portis is the better back. I believe he runs harder, and I think everyone would agree he blocks harder, in addition to being the better leader and teammate. My only point is that running backs don't last forever, and in my opinion, Larry Johnson is the better bet to still be producing in 2008 and 2009.

[hkHog]

I agree that Portis is the better back. I believe he runs harder, and I think everyone would agree he blocks harder, in addition to being the better leader and teammate. My only point is that running backs don't last forever, and in my opinion, Larry Johnson is the better bet to still be producing in 2008 and 2009.

Then why don't we stick with Portis for now and draft someone else down the road?

[JansenFan]

Special Teams yards are probably more wearing, but I fail to see how that is relevant. Neither Johnson nor Portis played special teams.

I think BH is referring to LJ's kick return duties at PSU.

[John Manfreda]

Come on guys. Portis better than Johnson???

That's just homer talk.

Da

[wormer]

CP really showed me something this year. He is a true warrior. But everything being equal, give me a big back over a small back. How many times this year did CP get tripped up near the line by a hand or leg hitting his leg or by a not-so-hard hit? Seems to me lots of times. A bigger back would have waltzed right through those arm tackles.

Yes there are intangibles but those only take you so far.

James Thrash is a GREAT team guy with lots of intangibles, but I can probably list 50 WR's I'd rather have on my squad. Nothing against JT, there are just lots of better WR's in the league.

I'm assuming no trade will happen. So will be interesting to see how it pans out. LJ vs. CP next year...and beyond.

FYI: This year, both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union Address fell only a day or two apart.

It is an ironic juxtaposition:

One involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to a creature of little intelligence for prognostication, ............ and the other involves a groundhog.

[Irn-Bru]

My only point is that running backs don't last forever, and in my opinion, Larry Johnson is the better bet to still be producing in 2008 and 2009.

In those years Clinton Portis will be 27 and 28, respectively. I think that's a bit early to think that he won't still be producing--he may even be in his prime in those years.

He's taken some beatings these past two years, but barring some kind of freak injury that ends his career I don't see how you can claim that he'll be worn down at that point. Many running backs have been the team's main offense--and taken plenty of beatings--and still have produced into their 30's.

Remember, Larry Johnson is 2 years older than Clinton. He may weigh an extra 15 pounds but that doesn't translate into Johnson being the better long-term bet than Portis, in my opinion. If anything, we should be saying that Clinton is the better bet for a long-term producer given his advantage of age, but also because of his work ethic and locker-room leadership qualities (team leaders tend to stick around longer than cancers. . .)

[hkHog]

Also, like I said before, big backs take more big hits than little backs. That is one of the reasons there aren't many big backs these days.

[wormer]

Also, like I said before, big backs take more big hits than little backs. That is one of the reasons there aren't many big backs these days.

The trend toward smaller backs is because they are faster, not because big backs are more likely to be injured/beaten up by more/harder hits.

You are basically saying small backs are more durable than big backs. Not saying you are wrong, (because I have not done any actual research on the subject), but this is counter to conventional logic. Why did CP say he put on weight this past off season? So he could withstand more punishment. He wore down at the end of 2004.

The NFL has turned much more into a speed league. It is very difficult to find a back who is big AND has speed. This is part of the reason they are so valuable.