Yet another shot at the Skins...Could this have some truth?

screwgun · Post by **screwgun** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:33 am

its his time to step up - close his mouth and PLAY BALL.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. Time to shut up and put up :!:

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:49 am

Scottskins wrote:
sch1977 wrote:Since he is so overrated, maybe we can get a 5th or 6th round pick for him next year. You same people who say he is overrated will be the ones basking in the glory when he does well. You cant have it both ways

first, we need at least a 1st rounder for him. Second, we can't trade him unless his contract is nullified by the arbitrator.

Lastly, of course I can have it both ways. Lavar is selfish. If he becomes a team guy instead of a ME guy, then he will have a hall of fame career. Sorry, but I will be pretty damn happy about it if that happens. Just because I consider him overrated, I can't enjoy him once he's no longer overrated? How does that make sense? I never said he sucks and he'll never be any good.

LaVar has always been a team guy. He stated from day one that he is a redskin for life. Just because he is in a contract dispute makes him selfish and thus we should trade him? 90% of the players in the NFL are in contract disputes at one point in their career, whether it be holding out as a rookie or as a veteran. We have enough criticism from non-redskin fans as it is. Wed dont need "redskin fans" like you adding to it

MyrtleBeachRedskin · Post by **MyrtleBeachRedskin** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:15 am

Easy, do not talk about football knowledge. Not saying I am an expert but I am fairly knowledgable about the game and what goes on. You do not know me do not question my intelligence on the subject. I have no problem argueing my point but do not think that because we differ in opinion that I am completely off base. My next post on this topic will have the stats for you.

Lavar has not been a team guy. Look at his contract dispute.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:47 am

sch1977 wrote:
Scottskins wrote:
sch1977 wrote:Since he is so overrated, maybe we can get a 5th or 6th round pick for him next year. You same people who say he is overrated will be the ones basking in the glory when he does well. You cant have it both ways

first, we need at least a 1st rounder for him. Second, we can't trade him unless his contract is nullified by the arbitrator.

Lastly, of course I can have it both ways. Lavar is selfish. If he becomes a team guy instead of a ME guy, then he will have a hall of fame career. Sorry, but I will be pretty damn happy about it if that happens. Just because I consider him overrated, I can't enjoy him once he's no longer overrated? How does that make sense? I never said he sucks and he'll never be any good.

LaVar has always been a team guy. He stated from day one that he is a redskin for life. Just because he is in a contract dispute makes him selfish and thus we should trade him? 90% of the players in the NFL are in contract disputes at one point in their career, whether it be holding out as a rookie or as a veteran. We have enough criticism from non-redskin fans as it is. Wed dont need "redskin fans" like you adding to it

Lavar is not a team guy. A team guy would do what the coaches told him to do, not roam free and play however he felt like it. A team guy would not go to the media with his gripes instead of his head coach. A team guy would listen to his trainers and doctors and not try and play before he was ready thereby hurting himself again....twice. I do believe he loves washington, both the team and it's fans, but let's not pretend that huge paycheck didn't have a whole heck of a lot to do with him staying in DC. Don't get me wrong, I really do like Lavar, simply because he is SO passionate AND has huge raw potential. But, the time has come for him to stop whining about contracts(he makes a whole lotta dough, I'm sure top 5 in the league for his position), stop playing his way and start playing Williams way, and get healthy.

Basically, if it's not news that he's going to be at practice going full strength, we don't need to hear his name. Enough with the "charity" parties where people get shot, enough with the whining to the local tv station that the team doesn't love him and they made him aggrevate his injury by forcing him back too soon, and ENOUGH with this contract situation. He said numerous times that he was going to drop the arbitration because he felt that since he missed so many games, that they were even on that end anyway. What happened to that? Now it's as if he never said a word. I'm getting real tired of this wishy washy attitude he seems to have. Now he's gonna miss the start of training camp again?

Work hard, don't come back until you are completely healthy, keep your mouth shut, and do what your told. Your making big money Lavar. I expect nothing less.

/end rant

sch1977 · Post by **sch1977** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:58 am

Look, as long as these players are making astronomical amounts of money there will always be contract disputes. Personally, I could care less about the issue of money. I am concerned with what he has done on the field, and that has been tremendous. Go ahead and count the injury and say he didnt do anything for us last year, since that has been your only arguement. This is my last comment on the issue, its getting old.

DaRealistJoka · Post by **DaRealistJoka** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:25 am

I just dont get why everybody saying that Lavar is injury prone he had one injury year, every player has one bad year because of a injury. I just dont get it. he made the probowl 3 times in 4 year come on, we should not be having this thread.

AM A HOG NOW

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:50 am

Lavar is a punk plain and simple. He is all mouth and crocodile tears. Until he truly dominates on a consistent basis he can just STFU in my opinion.

And once again so what he made the probowl. Lots of idiots that don't deserve it make the probowl. (Who votes for the "pro bowl" by the way...its the idiot fans).

We were great without him last year on defense and we could be even better without him again. He is perfect trade bait.
We could get multiple picks like a #1 and a 3 for his mouth punk carcass.

I say do it Vinnie...ship Mr. Mouth to Seattle of some other cesspool so I can laugh when you miss tackles there and run your mouth some more.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:33 pm

SKINZ_DOMIN8 you have been warned (quite a few times) about using alternate spelling when posting profanity in Hog Wash.

So you think using only the first letter is OK?

It's NOT your post as been edited.

PM enroute

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:05 pm

Arrington may be a punk or whatever, but no one can deny his play on the field. Look at this play this is how anxious he is to get back on that field, this was his first play back last year I think... http://extremeskins.com/CrazyZeb/Week15atSF07_LAisBack.mpg

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:16 pm

WshSkins22 wrote:Arrington may be a punk or whatever, but no one can deny his play on the field. Look at this play this is how anxious he is to get back on that field, this was his first play back last year I think... http://extremeskins.com/CrazyZeb/Week15atSF07_LAisBack.mpg

That's his problem: he will make 1 great play and get beat the next 5.

We don't need him.

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:24 pm

Yeah but you gotta admit it was pretty sweet

DaRealistJoka · Post by **DaRealistJoka** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:44 pm

SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote:Lavar is a punk plain and simple. He is all mouth and crocodile tears. Until he truly dominates on a consistent basis he can just STFU in my opinion.

And once again so what he made the probowl. Lots of idiots that don't deserve it make the probowl. (Who votes for the "pro bowl" by the way...its the idiot fans).

We were great without him last year on defense and we could be even better without him again. He is perfect trade bait.
We could get multiple picks like a #1 and a 3 for his mouth punk carcass.

I say do it Vinnie...ship Mr. Mouth to Seattle of some other cesspool so I can laugh when you miss tackles there and run your mouth some more.

Yeah I understand that you are fed up with him and his actions this year and so is everybody else. But, when we didnt have these stars that we have on our defense now and GW, you was screaming his name just like everybody else,but I am sure that you will deny it because you will fill stupid to go back on your word. All am I am trying to say is that he is a great player and this organization has not been fair to him because of the different defensive coordinators that he has had every year. Of course he is goin to get caught out of position on some plays because he is tryin to make a play because it was really nobody else on the defense at that time to help him, and there is a lot of confusion because of the coordinators being switch every year. Yes our defense was great last year, but with LA we will be that much better. #1 D.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:30 pm

DaRealistJoka wrote: All am I am trying to say is that he is a great player and this organization has not been fair to him because of the different defensive coordinators that he has had every year. Of course he is goin to get caught out of position on some plays because he is tryin to make a play because it was really nobody else on the defense at that time to help him, and there is a lot of confusion because of the coordinators being switch every year. Yes our defense was great last year, but with LA we will be that much better. #1 D.

Defending LA is one thing but you are making excuses. Lavar is Very talented, smart, and knows his position. The revolving door of DCs is a excuse Lavar knew where he was suppose to be, he even voiced his displeasure at some points.
Arrington being out of position on the regular bases and his choice of player representation are my only gripes with Lavar.

Being out of postion on some plays wasn't..because he is tryin to make a play because it was really nobody else on the defense at that time to help him, and there is a lot of confusion because of the coordinators being switch every year... he was caught out of postion because he was trying to make Sportcenter.

I believe like most fans we are better off with him on the field (for as long as he his here) than off the field. Unlike some I believe the Sportscenter highlights will come naturally. My 2 cents

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:16 pm

Why was our defense better last year without his carcass?

Because he wasn't there getting in people's way.

Trade him how.

Arrington & Ramsey to Philly for Owens and their #1 next year.

That should fire some people up but it makes lots of sense.

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:21 pm

That makes less sense than sending monkeys in tutus to Mars.

DaRealistJoka · Post by **DaRealistJoka** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:07 pm

1niksder wrote:
DaRealistJoka wrote: All am I am trying to say is that he is a great player and this organization has not been fair to him because of the different defensive coordinators that he has had every year. Of course he is goin to get caught out of position on some plays because he is tryin to make a play because it was really nobody else on the defense at that time to help him, and there is a lot of confusion because of the coordinators being switch every year. Yes our defense was great last year, but with LA we will be that much better. #1 D.

Defending LA is one thing but you are making excuses. Lavar is Very talented, smart, and knows his position. The revolving door of DCs is a excuse Lavar knew where he was suppose to be, he even voiced his displeasure at some points.
Arrington being out of position on the regular bases and his choice of player representation are my only gripes with Lavar.

Being out of postion on some plays wasn't..because he is tryin to make a play because it was really nobody else on the defense at that time to help him, and there is a lot of confusion because of the coordinators being switch every year... he was caught out of postion because he was trying to make Sportcenter.

I believe like most fans we are better off with him on the field (for as long as he his here) than off the field. Unlike some I believe the Sportscenter highlights will come naturally. My 2 cents

O I am not making a excuse for him. am not saying it is not his fault, but it is the truth. If you ever played football at least up to the high school level you would know it is hard to adjust to different coaches every year.Every NFL player is selfish to a point but LA is not that selfish enought to care about Sportscenter more then winning. "I believe like most fans we are better off with him on the field (for as long as he his here) than off the field. Duh isnt that for everyplayer if you are paying him.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:27 pm

DaRealistJoka wrote:O I am not making a excuse for him. am not saying it is not his fault, but it is the truth. If you ever played football at least up to the college level you would know it is hard to adjust to different coaches every year.

I'm saying he never complained about all the defensive schemes that he has had to learn, because he had no problem adjusting.

DaRealistJoka wrote:Every NFL player is selfish to a point but LA is not that selfish enought to care about Sportscenter more then winning.

I didn't say he didn't care about winning. I'm saying he wanted to win but he wanted to be "THE" Redskin shown on SportsCenter.

DaRealistJoka wrote:"I believe like most fans we are better off with him on the field (for as long as he his here) than off the field. Duh isnt that for everyplayer if you are paying him.

No every player you pay you don't want on the field. Some you pay and at the same time you hope you never have to use them (at most on Teams).
None makes the kind of coin LA makes, only to whine when someone else get's more press.

When you have a player of Lavar's caliber you are better off with him on the field, so you work with them. but when you are talking say a Jason Short you move on.

Lavar made plays regardless of who the coach was, or what scheme was being run. He made plays that help the team, he made plays that hurt the team.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:52 pm

sch1977 wrote:Look, as long as these players are making astronomical amounts of money there will always be contract disputes. Personally, I could care less about the issue of money. I am concerned with what he has done on the field, and that has been tremendous. Go ahead and count the injury and say he didnt do anything for us last year, since that has been your only arguement. This is my last comment on the issue, its getting old.

lol, the only arguement I made eh? the injury is the smallest of the issues I have with Lavar. It's one of many...anyway, if you think Lavar has performed on the field go ahead. I'll agree he's made the highlights reels, but he's also been a part of the problem on defense by playing solo.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:04 pm

Look, I want Lavar to play for us and turn that corner and become the next Ray Lewis. He DOES have that ability in him. He could probably be even better than Ray Lewis. BUT, he has definitely NOT played superstar football for the Redskins yet. Sure he's made the pro bowl, but so what? Nate Newton made the probowl the year he only played in 2 games or so. The Probowl is meaningless and everyone knows it.

My whole point of even posting on this was to say that I am tired of waiting for Lavar to turn that corner while at the same time having to listen to him whine and make a joke out of the organization. He's been injured for awhile now. Ok, that happens. It does suck because he's making a lot of cash and counting quite a bit towards our cap. I could deal with that no problem. But, given his current situation, I'm really starting to get sick of hearing his name in negative ways throughout the offseasons.

Like I said before, Shut up, get healthy and do what your told. He shouldn't be DOING anything else. Time to grow up...

Also, to suggest we cut or trade him is plain silly. That's impossible to do. He would cost us 17 million on our cap minimum this year which is completely impossible for us to do. So any suggestions that we cut or trade him are pretty ridiculus. He's the most UN-tradeable guy on our team...

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:12 pm

Scottskins wrote:Also, to suggest we cut or trade him is plain silly. That's impossible to do. He would cost us 17 million on our cap minimum this year which is completely impossible for us to do. So any suggestions that we cut or trade him are pretty ridiculus. He's the most UN-tradeable guy on our team...

For the record that $17 million dropped to $12.5M after June 1st 2005 and you can knock another $5.6M going into next off season. Thats makes him more tradeable/cutable than Coles was this year.

This is something Mr. Redskin needs to think about.

Gibbs is building a TEAM here. For the past few years 'the Danny" has been trying to buy one. The two philosophies were bound to clash. At this point it's time for Mr. Arrinton to do his business or get off the pot

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:37 am

1niksder wrote:
Scottskins wrote:Also, to suggest we cut or trade him is plain silly. That's impossible to do. He would cost us 17 million on our cap minimum this year which is completely impossible for us to do. So any suggestions that we cut or trade him are pretty ridiculus. He's the most UN-tradeable guy on our team...

For the record that $17 million dropped to $12.5M after June 1st 2005 and you can knock another $5.6M going into next off season. Thats makes him more tradeable/cutable than Coles was this year.

This is something Mr. Redskin needs to think about.

Gibbs is building a TEAM here. For the past few years 'the Danny" has been trying to buy one. The two philosophies were bound to clash. At this point it's time for Mr. Arrinton to do his business or get off the pot

I already halved it 1nik ;-)

I'm not exactly sure what his hit is, but he's got 7 years left on his contract counting this year and his SB hit this year is 5 mil. That says to me that he has at least 35 mil minimum. He also goes double next season because the bonuses overlap, so I believe his accelerated hit is 40 million. So if cut right now, it would be 20 million this season and 20 million next season. Again, I don't have his exact contract details, just his cap hit info from Warpath.

Whatever it comes down to, it's a lot and he's completely untradeable...

http://redskins.scout.com/3/salary_cap_chart.html

I may have the facts wrong on this one, if anyone has the specifics, please share

redskingush · Post by **redskingush** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:31 am

Back in 01, one Interception return at 0-5 changed the course of a whole season, even had playoff hopes. Lavar when healthy was one of the best in the league. How can a guy who hasnt played really be rated anything?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:00 am

I cannot wait for training camp to begin so we can get back to some positive analysis! Some people are really getting twisted about this, fact is, Lavar will be playing this year and anyone with an ounce of NFL knowledge will anticipate that he will be anxious to make an impact AND be a team player.

I would not think that Joe is going to bring anyone in that could be a disruption and especially not any player who thinks he's better than the team or who thinks he will make the team better just by being here, like a TO. Joe would not trade Rod for TO! This team is going to have talented players BUT they will be team oriented, talented players and they will only be brought here if Joe or Greg thinks they will fit in.

We already tried it with fantasy players, I do not think Joe (or Greg) are going to make that mistake again.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:54 am

Scottskins wrote:Whatever it comes down to, it's a lot and he's completely untradeable...

http://redskins.scout.com/3/salary_cap_chart.html

I may have the facts wrong on this one, if anyone has the specifics, please share

It's all in the details Lavar's contract was for about
$79 million ($26M+ in salary- $26M+ in Signing Bonus $26M+ in other bonuses).

If Lavar were cut we would take a hit on the prorated signing bonus only. About half as already been paid, The unpaid Salary and Reporting bonuses wouldn't count against our Cap number.

I think Trouble (LC) thought he was untradeable but he's a Jet again. His hit was $6M+ and he was on the feild last year.

Both of these links are pre-Free agency but LA's contract hasn't been changed
Contract Details

Cost to move a Redskin

SKINZ_DOMIN8 · Post by **SKINZ_DOMIN8** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:03 am

SkinsJock wrote:I cannot wait for training camp to begin so we can get back to some positive analysis! Some people are really getting twisted about this, fact is, Lavar will be playing this year and anyone with an ounce of NFL knowledge will anticipate that he will be anxious to make an impact AND be a team player.

I would not think that Joe is going to bring anyone in that could be a disruption and especially not any player who thinks he's better than the team or who thinks he will make the team better just by being here, like a TO. Joe would not trade Rod for TO! This team is going to have talented players BUT they will be team oriented, talented players and they will only be brought here if Joe or Greg thinks they will fit in.

We already tried it with fantasy players, I do not think Joe (or Greg) are going to make that mistake again.

So you are saying Gibbs would NOT trade "Rod" for T.O.??

Are you insane????? In that hypothetical situation, if we had a chance to get T.O. straight up for "Rod" and we didn't get him, Gibbs would be run out of town by every sportswriter in this city.

Dude, you just won the Homer of the Year Award.