Should the Skins re-sign Cousins....?

[riggofan]

Cousins camp and the Redskins FO are fully aware of what the market value is for a good QB - hopefully the FO offers Cousins a little more than they think he's worth & Cousins turns them down so he can get a better contract by having a great year

good deal for Cousins and good for the Redskins

Good grief man can you please stop posting this comment over and over? Seriously, its like that guy from Bull Durham.

We gotta play 'em one day at a time.
I'm just happy to be here. Hope I can help the ballclub.
I just want to give it my best shot, and the good Lord willing, things will work out.

I have no doubt that the Redskins FO is capable of negotiating a contract, and the good lord willing Cousins will play well and we'll all have rainbows beaming out of our backsides.

[Deadskins]

Nobody is making an argument that Cousins should be paid the same amount as Luck. The point is that Luck's contract could significantly raise the ceiling for that position. Its not like Luck will get that contract and everyone else will just continue to get paid at the 2016 going rate.

If you don't buy that argument, what about the franchise tag? "An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams. The player's team has all the negotiating rights to the exclusive player."

Kirk is not an exclusive player though. Didn't we go the non-exclusive route?

[Deadskins]

Nobody is making an argument that Cousins should be paid the same amount as Luck. The point is that Luck's contract could significantly raise the ceiling for that position. Its not like Luck will get that contract and everyone else will just continue to get paid at the 2016 going rate.

If you don't buy that argument, what about the franchise tag? "An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams. The player's team has all the negotiating rights to the exclusive player."

Kirk is not an exclusive player, though. Didn't we go the non-exclusive route?

[riggofan]

Nobody is making an argument that Cousins should be paid the same amount as Luck. The point is that Luck's contract could significantly raise the ceiling for that position. Its not like Luck will get that contract and everyone else will just continue to get paid at the 2016 going rate.

If you don't buy that argument, what about the franchise tag? "An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams. The player's team has all the negotiating rights to the exclusive player."

Kirk is not an exclusive player though. Didn't we go the non-exclusive route?

I don't know but how is that any different? The compensation is still the same. The only difference is that a non-exclusive player can negotiate with other teams.

A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five cap hits at the player's position for the previous five years applied to the current salary cap, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if the player signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, is entitled to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation.

Both the non-exclusive and exclusive compensation would be affected by Luck's contract the same way, don't you think?

[riggofan]

https://www.dchotread.com/2016/06/24/co ... ng-nowhere

If that’s the way the Redskins want to operate moving forward, that’s their choice. Just know, there’s only one Tom Brady, and they are more likely to wind up with a situation that played out for the Baltimore Ravens and Joe Flacco.

You don’t remember? Flacco gambled on himself, the Ravens gambled on being right and themselves. Together, they won a Super Bowl and then Flacco got paid a fortune. Good for him. If there’s anybody that says Flacco’s original post Super Bowl deal didn’t hurt the Ravens, or his current re-negotiated deal, then we need to talk. It’s been and will continue to be a significant issue.

It has robbed the Ravens of valuable depth and the ability to overcome problems like injuries and free agent defections.

Chris Russell has the numbers and the math.

"Oh and by the way - they could have had him for $35m fully guaranteed this March. "

[SkinsJock]

There's no doubt that many QBs are getting paid a lot more money than they're worth and I'm sure that Cousins will be one also - that doesn't bother me in the slightest

no matter how much money Cousins gets this FO is not allowing that to affect the franchise like what happened to the Ravens

so while I keep repeating the same thing over and over ....

Cousins aint that good and even though he's going to get over-paid, this FO is not putting a deal together that hurts their ability to pay all of their players or be able to go after players they need

[SkinsJock]

Chris Russell has the numbers and the math.
"Oh and by the way - they could have had him for $35m fully guaranteed this March. "

If they had given Cousins $35M they would have had a problem ... that is not enough in today's market ... even for Cousins

[Deadskins]

Nobody is making an argument that Cousins should be paid the same amount as Luck. The point is that Luck's contract could significantly raise the ceiling for that position. Its not like Luck will get that contract and everyone else will just continue to get paid at the 2016 going rate.

If you don't buy that argument, what about the franchise tag? "An "exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five salaries at the player's position as of a date in April of the current year in which the tag will apply, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. Exclusive franchise players cannot negotiate with other teams. The player's team has all the negotiating rights to the exclusive player."

Kirk is not an exclusive player though. Didn't we go the non-exclusive route?

I don't know but how is that any different? The compensation is still the same. The only difference is that a non-exclusive player can negotiate with other teams.

A "non-exclusive" franchise player must be offered a one-year contract for an amount no less than the average of the top five cap hits at the player's position for the previous five years applied to the current salary cap, or 120 percent of the player's previous year's salary, whichever is greater. A non-exclusive franchise player may negotiate with other NFL teams, but if the player signs an offer sheet from another team, the original team has a right to match the terms of that offer, or if it does not match the offer and thus loses the player, is entitled to receive two first-round draft picks as compensation.

Both the non-exclusive and exclusive compensation would be affected by Luck's contract the same way, don't you think?

Not necessarily. Being non-exclusive kind of sets his market value on it's own. Two #1s is really not that big a price for a top QB in this league, and the fact that he hasn't gotten any offers shows how other teams feel about him to an extent. Even at his age, if Tom Brady was a non-exclusive franchise player, there would be several teams vying for his services.

[riggofan]

Not necessarily. Being non-exclusive kind of sets his market value on it's own. Two #1s is really not that big a price for a top QB in this league, and the fact that he hasn't gotten any offers shows how other teams feel about him to an extent. Even at his age, if Tom Brady was a non-exclusive franchise player, there would be several teams vying for his services.

I don't really understand the squishy point you're making. I'm just talking about math here. If Luck signs a significantly high new contract then the league plugs that new number into the formula to calculate the franchise tag. The number that comes out of the formula will be higher. Exclusive or non-exclusive. Doesn't matter. End of story.

I'm sure there are other finer points about how the contract is negotiated under an exclusive or non-exclusive tag. I'm just talking about the fact that the franchise tag number is going to be reset by a new Luck deal.

[riggofan]

Tandler is all over it. I think its worth noting that he's painting the worst case scenario. Up to the team to weigh the risk.

What do you think about this suggestion that Cousins could outperform Luck this year? He writes: "Not necessarily because he’s a better, more talented quarterback than Luck but because he has better weapons and an offense that fits him perfectly."

It may seem crazy to think, but they've put him in great position to be successful this year.

But the Redskins have to have one thing in the back of their minds that may create some desperation as the deadline gets closer. Breer mentioned the ongoing Andrew Luck contract extension talks. Colts owner Robert Irsay has said that the deal will be “a big number”, which in today’s quarterback market is something in the neighborhood of $25 million per year.

So let’s paint the nightmare scenario for the Redskins, at least in financial terms. The July 15 deadline passes with no deal and Cousins plays on the tag in 2016. Then just before training camp starts the blockbuster deal for Luck is announced at six years, $150 million with $75 million guaranteed.

Suppose Cousins clearly outperforms Luck in 2016. Not necessarily because he’s a better, more talented quarterback than Luck but because he has better weapons and an offense that fits him perfectly.

If that entirely plausible scenario unfolds Mike McCartney, Cousins’ agent, will want to start negotiations in 2017 with Luck’s deal. The Redskins, who could lock up Cousins now for something in the neighborhood of $20 million per year right now, maybe even a bit less, may end up paying more—a lot more.

According to the old adage, patience is a virtue. But perhaps not in this case. Making sure that Cousins gets locked up in the next three weeks might cost them a couple of million more per year than they really want to pay. If they wait it out and Luck resets the market they might end up paying $40 million more over the life of the contract than they might if they act now.

What Luck may or may not do should not dictate what the Redskins and Cousins do. But it is a factor that needs to be considered.

http://realredskins.com/2016/06/26/need ... uck-signs/

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Tandler is all over it. I think its worth noting that he's painting the worst case scenario. Up to the team to weigh the risk.

What do you think about this suggestion that Cousins could outperform Luck this year? He writes: "Not necessarily because he’s a better, more talented quarterback than Luck but because he has better weapons and an offense that fits him perfectly."

It may seem crazy to think, but they've put him in great position to be successful this year.

But the Redskins have to have one thing in the back of their minds that may create some desperation as the deadline gets closer. Breer mentioned the ongoing Andrew Luck contract extension talks. Colts owner Robert Irsay has said that the deal will be “a big number”, which in today’s quarterback market is something in the neighborhood of $25 million per year.

So let’s paint the nightmare scenario for the Redskins, at least in financial terms. The July 15 deadline passes with no deal and Cousins plays on the tag in 2016. Then just before training camp starts the blockbuster deal for Luck is announced at six years, $150 million with $75 million guaranteed.

Suppose Cousins clearly outperforms Luck in 2016. Not necessarily because he’s a better, more talented quarterback than Luck but because he has better weapons and an offense that fits him perfectly.

If that entirely plausible scenario unfolds Mike McCartney, Cousins’ agent, will want to start negotiations in 2017 with Luck’s deal. The Redskins, who could lock up Cousins now for something in the neighborhood of $20 million per year right now, maybe even a bit less, may end up paying more—a lot more.

According to the old adage, patience is a virtue. But perhaps not in this case. Making sure that Cousins gets locked up in the next three weeks might cost them a couple of million more per year than they really want to pay. If they wait it out and Luck resets the market they might end up paying $40 million more over the life of the contract than they might if they act now.

What Luck may or may not do should not dictate what the Redskins and Cousins do. But it is a factor that needs to be considered.

http://realredskins.com/2016/06/26/need ... uck-signs/

I think Tandler is reaching for material. Cousins would have to reach or win a Super Bowl to be looking at numbers anywhere near $150 million with 50% guaranteed. That's more guaranteed money than Manning, Wilson, Newton, and Rodgers got in their deals, and all those quarterbacks have done something Cousins hasn't even come close to doing. The money really isn't a problem. The salary cap goes up every year. It's gone up $10MM, $10MM, and $12MM in the last three years. Paying a quarterback who demonstrates he can do what no Redskins quarterback has done in 25 years is not a problem. Paying a quarterback who had a handful of good games against teams with losing records and led his team to a division title and first round playoff loss in a weak division the largest guaranteed contract in the league just because he outplays another quarterback who is due for a contract extension is so stupid it shouldn't even be a discussion. This is Scot McCloughan, not Vinny Cerrato or Bruce Allen. That's why they didn't give Cousins an idiotic contract already.

[riggofan]

I think Tandler is reaching for material.

Of course he is. Its freaking June.

The money really isn't a problem. The salary cap goes up every year. It's gone up $10MM, $10MM, and $12MM in the last three years.

Sure. Instead of having an extra $10m to sign Chris Baker next year, you're paying Cousins more than you needed to.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

I think Tandler is reaching for material.

Of course he is. Its freaking June.

The money really isn't a problem. The salary cap goes up every year. It's gone up $10MM, $10MM, and $12MM in the last three years.

Sure. Instead of having an extra $10m to sign Chris Baker next year, you're paying Cousins more than you needed to.

They have $8.5MM in dead cap coming off the books after this season. Still not worried.

[Deadskins]

Not necessarily. Being non-exclusive kind of sets his market value on it's own. Two #1s is really not that big a price for a top QB in this league, and the fact that he hasn't gotten any offers shows how other teams feel about him to an extent. Even at his age, if Tom Brady was a non-exclusive franchise player, there would be several teams vying for his services.

I don't really understand the squishy point you're making. I'm just talking about math here. If Luck signs a significantly high new contract then the league plugs that new number into the formula to calculate the franchise tag. The number that comes out of the formula will be higher. Exclusive or non-exclusive. Doesn't matter. End of story.

I'm sure there are other finer points about how the contract is negotiated under an exclusive or non-exclusive tag. I'm just talking about the fact that the franchise tag number is going to be reset by a new Luck deal.

Obviously. If Luck's new contract is one of the top 5 in the league, then it will be used in setting the franchise QB numbers. Duh! But that wasn't the point you were making when you said:

Nobody is making an argument that Cousins should be paid the same amount as Luck. The point is that Luck's contract could significantly raise the ceiling for that position. Its not like Luck will get that contract and everyone else will just continue to get paid at the 2016 going rate.

The "squishy" point I was making is that Luck's new deal probably won't have an affect on Cousins' future deal that he will eventually sign with the team. The fact that there aren't other teams forcing our hand by making Cousins an offer, that we then would have to either match or let him go, shows that his current market value doesn't warrant a huge contract, and really doesn't depend on what happens with Luck.

[DarthMonk]

Would $110 M for 6 years with $55 M guaranteed get it done right now?

[riggofan]

Obviously. If Luck's new contract is one of the top 5 in the league, then it will be used in setting the franchise QB numbers. Duh! But that wasn't the point you were making when you said:

Nobody is making an argument that Cousins should be paid the same amount as Luck. The point is that Luck's contract could significantly raise the ceiling for that position. Its not like Luck will get that contract and everyone else will just continue to get paid at the 2016 going rate.

I have no idea what you're talking about. That's exactly the point I was making. What part of "The point is that Luck's contract could significantly raise the ceiling for that position." is confusing to you?

[riggofan]

Would $110 M for 6 years with $55 M guaranteed get it done right now?

I would think so. I don't know about the number of years, etc; but the latest number I read was that his agent is looking for $44m guaranteed.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Would $110 M for 6 years with $55 M guaranteed get it done right now?

Maybe but to hell with giving a player that kind of contract based upon ten games. If he gets us to a Super Bowl this season ... give him any damn thing he wants.

[Deadskins]

Obviously. If Luck's new contract is one of the top 5 in the league, then it will be used in setting the franchise QB numbers. Duh! But that wasn't the point you were making when you said:

Nobody is making an argument that Cousins should be paid the same amount as Luck. The point is that Luck's contract could significantly raise the ceiling for that position. Its not like Luck will get that contract and everyone else will just continue to get paid at the 2016 going rate.

I have no idea what you're talking about. That's exactly the point I was making. What part of "The point is that Luck's contract could significantly raise the ceiling for that position." is confusing to you?

The part where I completely disagreed with how you said that would affect Kirk's future negotiations with the Skins. (not quoted above, but implied by the colored portion). Luck's contract would, indeed, raise the ceiling on the top-end contracts, but will have little affect on the middling and lower-end deals, which is where Kirk falls, and the point I have been making all along.

[DarthMonk]

Would $110 M for 6 years with $55 M guaranteed get it done right now?

I would think so. I don't know about the number of years, etc; but the latest number I read was that his agent is looking for $44m guaranteed.

A year from now, franchise tag money should be over $20 M so it seems like $44 M is essentially 2 years of franchise money. If $44 M is the number I say offer $110 for 6 years with $44 M guaranteed now. $110 M is essentially current franchise money X 6.

If we are not happy after 2 years he's gone and we take one bad hit for the 2nd year - probably just the cap increase. If we are happy we find we have a bargain.

This contract would look small in 2021-2022.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Would $110 M for 6 years with $55 M guaranteed get it done right now?

I would think so. I don't know about the number of years, etc; but the latest number I read was that his agent is looking for $44m guaranteed.

A year from now, franchise tag money should be over $20 M so it seems like $44 M is essentially 2 years of franchise money. If $44 M is the number I say offer $110 for 6 years with $44 M guaranteed now. $110 M is essentially current franchise money X 6.

If we are not happy after 2 years he's gone and we take one bad hit for the 2nd year - probably just the cap increase. If we are happy we find we have a bargain.

This contract would look small in 2021-2022.

Why would Cousins even consider taking that contract when he can get that much guaranteed over the next two seasons alone?

[riggofan]

Would $110 M for 6 years with $55 M guaranteed get it done right now?

Maybe but to hell with giving a player that kind of contract based upon ten games. If he gets us to a Super Bowl this season ... give him any damn thing he wants.

You're just counting his "good games" from last year, I guess?

[riggofan]

Why would Cousins even consider taking that contract when he can get that much guaranteed over the next two seasons alone?

Because he's not "guaranteed" jack in 2017. The chance that he might get franchised again in 2017 if he has a good year isn't a guarantee of anything.

I know people will say he can bet on himself to have a good year and earn a bigger pay day, but there are still things out of his control that could derail that. Trent Williams goes down in the fourth preseason game for example. Jordan Reed gets a concussion. There's more to it than just betting on himself.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Why would Cousins even consider taking that contract when he can get that much guaranteed over the next two seasons alone?

Because he's not "guaranteed" jack in 2017. The chance that he might get franchised again in 2017 if he has a good year isn't a guarantee of anything.

I know people will say he can bet on himself to have a good year and earn a bigger pay day, but there are still things out of his control that could derail that. Trent Williams goes down in the fourth preseason game for example. Jordan Reed gets a concussion. There's more to it than just betting on himself.

He's not going to get franchise tagged in back to back seasons. It would cost 120% of his 2016 salary. That's $23.94MM guaranteed.

What I meant was he's already guaranteed $19.95MM for 2016. Any contract he gets is going to guarantee him more than another $24.05MM over the next five seasons. A lot more.

[DarthMonk]

Why would Cousins even consider taking that contract when he can get that much guaranteed over the next two seasons alone?

Because he's not "guaranteed" jack in 2017. The chance that he might get franchised again in 2017 if he has a good year isn't a guarantee of anything.

I know people will say he can bet on himself to have a good year and earn a bigger pay day, but there are still things out of his control that could derail that. Trent Williams goes down in the fourth preseason game for example. Jordan Reed gets a concussion. There's more to it than just betting on himself.

He's not going to get franchise tagged in back to back seasons. It would cost 120% of his 2016 salary. That's $23.94MM guaranteed.

What I meant was he's already guaranteed $19.95MM for 2016. Any contract he gets is going to guarantee him more than another $24.05MM over the next five seasons. A lot more.

Kinda seems like you're arguing both sides.

Here are the top 5 (average per year) contracts right now:

Flacco = $66 M, $22 M per year, $44 guaranteed, FA 2022

Rodgers = $110, $22, $65, 2020

Wilson = $87, $21, $31, 2020

Roethlisberger = $87, $21, $34, 2020

Manning = $84, $21, $36, 2020 (most guaranteed money in history at time of signing = $54 M, VERY reliable health, Flacco next at $44 M)

Cam Newton just signed for $103, $20, $41, 2021

The NFL has smaller guarantees than MLB and NBA because, among other things, the owners have more risk with player injury.

What number(s) do think would get Kirk Cousins to sign by July 15 ??