The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

until they find a large supply of real weapons, i'm not buying this sh1t that they are selling....
Just Lord bring home our troops, bring up our economy, and deliver us a Vince Lambardi Trophy....is that all too much to ask???

Texas Hog wrote:None of us want them getting killed, but the one's of us that truly support our troops, support them being there, their efforts and the war, as well as the leaders, doing their best to protect our freedom and sovereignty.

By supporting the troops, I wish them well... you don't have to agree with why they are over there to have respect for the military. The Army's job is to carry out the will of the President and Congress to the best of their ability. That's what makes them great, and that's why a privatized military is a horrible idea.

The military's job isn't to think, or feel about any particular political issue. It is to be ready for when they are called upon, reguardless of the circumstances. You can't bash the military, they don't have much of a say in what they are activated for, but they CAN be misused.

It's perfectly normal (albeit unfortunate) for these soldiers to stray from the path. It's been proven by many scientific studies that someone in a position of power with no sure objective will do this to people they have power over. After all, the military is essentially there on guard duty until they withdraw right? They have no particular objective and weild nearly unlimited power in this region.

This can be done right, and this syndrome many of them are going through can be curbed but SOMETHING is wrong when soldiers are murdering unarmed prisoners, even if they were at one time armed fighters.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

Texas Hog wrote:None of us want them getting killed, but the one's of us that truly support our troops, support them being there, their efforts and the war, as well as the leaders, doing their best to protect our freedom and sovereignty.

By supporting the troops, I wish them well... you don't have to agree with why they are over there to have respect for the military. The Army's job is to carry out the will of the President and Congress to the best of their ability. That's what makes them great, and that's why a privatized military is a horrible idea.

Dude...what the hell are you talking about? Right, I said "supporting", I didn't say anything about "wishing them well". We all wish them well...that's my point.

And as far as quoting your scientific experiments and other b.s., I don't have time to argue with you. Just know that the only thing I've found that you and I can agree on is our favorite football team.

I don't think people all wish soldiers well though. Some people spit at/throw things at soldiers and hold them in contempt, and I certainly don't want to be lumped in with that crowd!

The military is a valuable resource but they are being misused. They are just keeping on guard on Iraq without a whole lot of direction... so these abuse scandals happen. They get bad intelligence to bombing runs that kill 40 people happen... these things are being talked about not because of any alleged media biase, but because they need to be fixed.

55 Speaking as one of the troops you "support" thanks but no thanks! I can get along quite nicely without the support of someone with the veiws you have. Funny how you never commented on the fact that I've been ask to go to Iraq to help sort out the 1000's of remains from Saddam's WMD's free regime??

DEHog, you're not exactly one of the troops I am refering to. You work stateside right?

I think a lot of this abuse and misbehavior by the military could be solved with more rotation, perhaps shorter tours of duty?

Anyway my views on the military is that they are a valuable resource by the President and Congress that can be misused. I don't know how anyone could have a problem, or disagree with that.

NikiH wrote:We need a president with a back bone. Exactly why I will vote for George W Bush!

No offense NIkiH, but I would rather have one with a brain.

Anyone that doesn't agree that the Iraq situation is turning into a serious mess isn't paying attention. I am not sure what the answer is, but for starters we need to stop screwing up and adding to the impression that we don't know how to handle this war. We are the good guys and need to act like it.

NC34Hog wrote:

NikiH wrote:
We need a president with a back bone. Exactly why I will vote for George W Bush!


No offense NIkiH, but I would rather have one with a brain.

That was hilirious!!! I couldn't agree with you more on that either!!!

I can't believe you wanna whine about how "rude" I am when you've just stated that our troops are mindless killer robots under the mind-control of the President AND that they're terrorists. Your attempts to equate the efforst of our troops to the unprovolked attack by the terrorists is just plain STUPID. The over-simplified tit-for-tat ranting would be funny if it was a couple of fat guys, with over-sized boxing gloves between innings at a minor-league ball park. But it's a war. A war against evil people that want to kill all Americans, all Jews and all Christians -and all Muslims that don't subscribe to the radical- high tolerence for education - Wahabi mutated strain of a great religion.

Tillman served his first tour in Iraq - but that's no connection. You throw firebombs at anyone who doesn't agree with you then whine about the posts that disagree with you? You've already labeled me as a Muslim hating racist - and a complete idiot... and you want to whine about my post - dude, you're lost in your own little world.

Your "support" of those brave men and women is fake, phoney and worse than support - it's a slap in the face of anyone taking part in the action. In the military, a soldier can refuse any order he deems unlawful or unjust. There would be consequences - but they wouldn't ential the death penalty.

Saddam isn't a "bad guy" - he's an evil terrorist. The regiem was evil to epic proportions - not shoplifter, run-a-red-light, write a bad check - bad guy. EVIL! I'm amazed that you chose to ignor the facts stated - finance/money to terrorists, hiding terrorists, arming terrorists, stealing billions - with a B - billions from the oil for food program and still had dozens of opportunities to stay in power with a small amount of compliance.

Honestly, I feel sorry for you. No kidding - I'm not even mad at you. I'm just in awe at your hunger for news of mistakes and misfortune. Contrasted by your unwillingness to acknowledge progress. Schools, telephones, electricity, clean drinking water... freedom of speech.

Evil does exist. Pretending it doesn't isn't a real option. Waiting for the French, Germans and Russians to act - is actually a disincentive to them. Why should they do anything to prevent the attacks on America - they feel there would be a 'leveling of the playing field' if the United States were to be toppled from the top.

I don't care who doesn't like me as an American, a Republican, a New Mexican, a Redskin fan. I refuse to change who I am in the hopes that someone won't attack me. While at war, your ilk provides comfort and a rallying cry to the enemy - congrats.

Scooter wrote:I can't believe you wanna whine about how "rude" I am when you've just stated that our troops are mindless killer robots under the mind-control of the President AND that they're terrorists. Your attempts to equate the efforst of our troops to the unprovolked attack by the terrorists is just plain STUPID. The over-simplified tit-for-tat ranting would be funny if it was a couple of fat guys, with over-sized boxing gloves between innings at a minor-league ball park. But it's a war. A war against evil people that want to kill all Americans, all Jews and all Christians -and all Muslims that don't subscribe to the radical- high tolerence for education - Wahabi mutated strain of a great religion.

Tillman served his first tour in Iraq - but that's no connection. You throw firebombs at anyone who doesn't agree with you then whine about the posts that disagree with you? You've already labeled me as a Muslim hating racist - and a complete idiot... and you want to whine about my post - dude, you're lost in your own little world.

Your "support" of those brave men and women is fake, phoney and worse than support - it's a slap in the face of anyone taking part in the action. In the military, a soldier can refuse any order he deems unlawful or unjust. There would be consequences - but they wouldn't ential the death penalty.

Saddam isn't a "bad guy" - he's an evil terrorist. The regiem was evil to epic proportions - not shoplifter, run-a-red-light, write a bad check - bad guy. EVIL! I'm amazed that you chose to ignor the facts stated - finance/money to terrorists, hiding terrorists, arming terrorists, stealing billions - with a B - billions from the oil for food program and still had dozens of opportunities to stay in power with a small amount of compliance.

Honestly, I feel sorry for you. No kidding - I'm not even mad at you. I'm just in awe at your hunger for news of mistakes and misfortune. Contrasted by your unwillingness to acknowledge progress. Schools, telephones, electricity, clean drinking water... freedom of speech.

Evil does exist. Pretending it doesn't isn't a real option. Waiting for the French, Germans and Russians to act - is actually a disincentive to them. Why should they do anything to prevent the attacks on America - they feel there would be a 'leveling of the playing field' if the United States were to be toppled from the top.

I don't care who doesn't like me as an American, a Republican, a New Mexican, a Redskin fan. I refuse to change who I am in the hopes that someone won't attack me. While at war, your ilk provides comfort and a rallying cry to the enemy - congrats.

That was nicely done.

Guys be very careful of your views on the Net or ....................................

Skinsfan55 wrote:DEHog, you're not exactly one of the troops I am refering to. You work stateside right?

I think a lot of this abuse and misbehavior by the military could be solved with more rotation, perhaps shorter tours of duty?

Anyway my views on the military is that they are a valuable resource by the President and Congress that can be misused. I don't know how anyone could have a problem, or disagree with that.

So because I work stateside that make me what?? I'm not comparing myself to those that fight this war up close and personal...but I do support the effort in many other ways. One thing I want to mention here is something our media doesn't report. Reenlistsments are up, there are a number of troops that want to stay or do another tour of duty in Iraq. Yet all we here from our media is how bad morale is and how dissapointed they are because they got extended. Nothing could be futher from the truth. I talk to troops passing through here all the time and they are a dedicated highly motivated bunch. There is a segment of our society that want to be in the thick of the fight, for many different reason, God Bless them!! I for one want no parts of Iraq, however if my Commander and Chief (either party) gave me the order, I'd go in a heart beat. Would you 55, stand and defend this great nation that allows you the freedom to speak you mind, stand up and defend her if asked?? Don't judge or speak for our troops until you walk in their boots.

I would join the Military if called upoon. It's what makes the system work. If there were a draft I would be upset, I would be anxious but I would go... it doesn't work any other way.

The military is a valuable resource and they can be misused, but a soldier (or branch of service) cannot pick which fights they want to participate in.

Also I was VERY close to joining the 109th with my friend Chris back in PA. Seemed like a good idea, money for college, doors open for government law enforcement jobs... fortunately I missed the weight limit by just a few pounds! I say fortuneatly, not just because I'd had to have miss some college but because my family moved while my friend was in Basic.

PS- Oh, and an update on my friend Chris. He was in Baghdad in a nice base with air conditioning, but his Military Police unit was transfered to a less dangerous area, unfortunately for him they now live in worse conditions. Still, the work is safer. I got a letter from him today saying that he hopes to get transfered again soon to something more exciting than escorting repairmen around the desert. I'm always pretty interested in what his jobs are, they stay pretty varried from patrols in the city, to guarding prisons (but not forcing the inmates to eat pork or lay on top of each other naked) to escorting repairmen etc. around.

i will only make one comment on the whole issue. i DESPISE liberals. if you can't respect what the troops AND the commander in chief are doing at the same time, you're supporting terrorism too. you might as well blame yourself for what happened on 9/11. if you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem, its as simple as that. i for one, have never voted. but i will this time around. i think bush has the right approach, stop this problem where it starts. stop the ones who support, hide, house and supply the terrorist. IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT, MAYBE YOU SHOULD MOVE TO IRAQ. nobody is stopping you, go ahead, get on a plane and fight for your "cause" in the truest form, hold your picket signs up in the desert. do you think the terrorist give a rats ass wether you are for or against the war? after all, you are an american, if not by birth, by choice, and in their eyes, the enemy. go try to fight for the "cause" you so desire. become the next nick berg. you're either on our side, or in our way. nobody is making you stay in this country. you have the freedom to leave and never return. but not a single one of you has the nuts to go do such a thing, because you know there would be a huge target on your back by the terrorist, and you'd have to give up your "comfy" lifestyle to do so. yes, you can bitch and whine about how you want to protect the troops and others, and see no more blood shed. but, i've got a reality check for you, this is the real fvcking world, thats not going to happen. freedom comes at a price. the same freedom that allows you to state you assinine opinion. the same freedom that allows you to vote, and live your life the way you do, the same freedom that allows you to love the redskins, hate the pukes, and decide which career and religion you wish to pursue. if you don't like it, or the necessary steps to make it all possible, then get the fvck out of the country. the grass is always greener on the other side of the goddamn fence. what would it take, an A-bomb, or chemical weapon attack on the mainland to make you realize that there is an issue at hand to be dealt with. get real. the troops in the region obviously are fighting for what they believe in by being there. i don't see any of these liberals over in the war trying to stop it. and thats because they are too chicken *sh$t* to fight for their on supposed "cause".
i apologize if i got a little out of hand with the wording, i got a little emotional. .... i'm out.

If only this war had anything to do with American freedom.

Now that we have Saddam, why aren't we going after Bin Laden? Why put him on the backburner.

The people who were responsible for 9/11 are still at large, and for some reason we decided to forget about them for the time being and invade Iraq. After we turn over power will we be back in the countries that Bin Laden might be in?

I can honestly say I was for going into the Middle East to get Bin Laden, but now... we decided to make a little pit stop. We were probably ready to turn power over to the Iraqis months ago, and if we had done that a few months ago, no prison scandals, no wedding party murdered etc. The Iraqi police are obviously prepared... they tracked down Nick Berg's killers amidst all this chaos. Let's take the fight to the terrorists instead of wasting time in Iraq.

Furthermore EH, how dare you say that people against the invasion of Iraq support terrorism, this is easily making the list of top ten stupidest things I have ever heard. Staying in Iraq isn't fighting terrorism, manning those sattellite pictures, using human intelligence, having troops searching is fighting terrorism... not winning the occasional skirmish and then going back to guard duty.

Also, saying you despise liberals is pretty silly... the Declaration of Indipendence and the Constitution are liberal documents and the BACKBONE of our great country

one comment you'll get no more. that same declaration is what we are fighting for, but indicated through your posts, you're too blind to see it. if there aren't any more terrorist in iraq, why was berg murdered? because the iraq government wanted it? i suppose they did it for publicity? you don't call those guys, or the ones shooting at our troops on a daily basis terrorist? get real, and get a freakin clue. obviously you should be there with your picket sign too. i'm through with this, go vote for kerry, and then get on that plane to iraq. or do you have the balls to protest the war that so many AMERICANS are fighting there, in the same atmosphere? your post are some of the dumbest i've seen on any message board. "if only this war had anything to do with ameriacn freedom".....where were you on 9/11? was our freedom not violated?

Iraq's got a pretty good force in place right now, they tracked down Berg's killers... not us. They were ready to take over months ago, and we're still wasting time in the Bin Laden hunt.

You cut off the head and the body will die, in Iraq... we're breaking off fingers.

no comment. if a REAL soldier, such as DEHog, says thanks, but no thanks for your comments and support, i say the same. he's part of the force thats fighting for our freedom, not YOU. IMO you are fighting against it. you made me comment twice, when i said i woudldn't. i'm done with you and your type. move to iraq, then spew your garbage....or don't you have the balls to do so?

lol, you're right EH, I don't have the balls to move to Iraq, throw my schooling away and live like it was the 13th century.

Other things I don't have the balls to do:

Drink sewage, cut off a limb, eat a spider...

PS- No one is fighting for AMERICAN freedom, we are fighting for Iraqi freedom.

i will stoop to your level no longer.

lol, don't bother "stooping" to telling the truth, being tolerant, looking at all sides of an issue...

these things are WAY overrated... and I'M the one who should go live in Iraq? These are core American values... and if you don't like it, you can stick it

Dude - you are poo pooing every one else's ideas... don't you get it? You budge not one bit. You see NO good at all no matter the reason. YOU are being the stubborn one here. You are the person who has repeatedly condemned the soldiers actions, the government, the war, the fight against terrorism (which going into Iraq was ALL about) and have not stepped back to see that some of the points made were valid. They just had the cahones to disagree, and so far as I can tell, you haven't had the cahones to stop and examine things honestly.

As I wrote before, Iraq gave tens of millions of barrels of oil to known terrorist organizations. KNOWN. It is on paper, discovered by Iraqis and reported by Arab news.

Stop and think before you say things you have no proof of. Some of us were or are soldiers and you are losing respect on this board very quickly by stating things that are patently untrue, no matter how long a letter I write with tons of proof in it, like before. I did all that for nothing as it obviously didn't phase you and you ignored it.

Iraq was a hotbed of terrorism. It isn't now. Afghanistan was a hotbed of terrorism. It isn't now. I personally think we should go into Syria next, as that is the worst hole for terrorists to go into.

By the by - if Iraq took over the entire middle east, which they were poised to do in the early 90's, the Arabs there asked for help, should we have sat on our thumbs as you suggest and let them be invaded?

Do you remember a Prime Minister of England who had your outlook and ended up with the Nazis on his doorstep? One step from invasion? If not for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor, the geography of Europe may look entirely different thanks to isolationists like yourself.

Can you be honest with me and tell me if you supported Clinton in all the various sorties that he ran? Including, I might add, the accidental bombing of a Chinese embassy? How about the slaughter of the Rangers in Mogadishu because he didn't give them the armored support they requested? Sent them in to a place with 10,000 armed enemies? A friggin small unit? No Support?

Personally, Bush is right. His theory is right. I told you before, terrorist states are negotiating now where they were threatening before and that didn't make a dent in your "reasoning". All you worry about is their society. The religion.

You never did answer me before about how their religion was better off with their holy places closed up and their Mullah's under house arrest. A fact young man. Who did that? Hussein.

Why don't you do some research on the mass graves found and tell me how their lives were so much better.

You keep believing your whitewash... for there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Also, saying you despise liberals is pretty silly... the Declaration of Indipendence and the Constitution are liberal documents and the BACKBONE of our great country

I'm not commenting too much on this stuff, but I've gotta make one point clear.

The Declaration of Independence and our Constitution are formulations of Classical Liberal ideas. A Classical Liberal by today's standards would be considered off the charts conservative (I'm a Classical Liberal, which by ideology line up more with Libertarians than any other party).

Some basic liberal positions:
*Separation of church and state
- This doesn't actually exist in our constitution. If the founding fathers wanted the same separation of church and state that the ACLU does, they wouldn't have pointed to our being created beings (and having a Creator) as the basis of our natural rights. I think that they wanted a separation of the government from interfering in religion; but there are many ways in which today's liberals have unfounded problems with religion (take, for example, those that are criticizing the Catholic Church for having its own rules about who can take communion and John Kerry. . .)

*Gun Control = Good
- Guess what--our founding fathers weren't trying to protect the rights of duck hunters. Read the f'ing second ammendment, biatch (Skinsfan55 this isn't directed at you personally )

*Bigger government = Good
- I don't even know where to start with this one. The powers granted in the constitution to the Fed have been unconstitutionally extended for years in ways that were just never intended.

*Redistribution of the wealth (in the form of taxes/welfare programs, graduated income tax, etc.) = Good and "equal"
- Not on your d&~n life. Property rights were listed along with life and liberty in the Declaration of Independence. I owe nothing to "society", because I'm not benefiting from it. It's all about property rights, and I should have mine.

*Centrality of Government = Good
- Whatever happened to States rights? In fact, whatever happened to the 9th and 10th ammendments? If the ACLU treated the 2nd, 9th, and 10th ammendments like they treated the first they'd be suing to make sure everyone owned a gun, and that the Fed never trampled on the rights of the States or the people, respectively. It's amazing how overlooked the 10th ammendment is in our society today--most people (and mostly liberals) assume that Federal government has a right to step in all sorts of places where it doesn't belong.

You want more? There are plenty. The liberals in this country have gone back on more Constitutional ideas than I can think of, and it won't be any trouble for me to name a few more. Just look at phrases like "tax cut for the rich" in conjunction with "not paying their share," and it just starts to get pretty ridiculous. . .


Now, you might disagree with what I'm saying in terms of philosophy, SkinsFan55. But please don't call the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence "liberal," because you're just using the wrong term. I am of the opinion that democrats long ago abandoned using the Constitution as a standard for what they do. They aren't "liberal" documents unless you're using some benign definition of the word like "wanting to change." They are Classical Liberal ideas, which again is not the same as the typical "liberal" of today. I wouldn't have a problem with liberals if they derived their all of their political ideas from the Constitution, starting with the 2nd ammendment and moving on up to the 9th and 10th.


And yeah, for the record, I really don't like liberals either, Evil Hog.

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:Iraq was a hotbed of terrorism. It isn't now. Afghanistan was a hotbed of terrorism. It isn't now. I personally think we should go into Syria next, as that is the worst hole for terrorists to go into.

Quick question SFIR (because I'm in the UK and can't follow American news quite as well here):

I remember that Syria gave up their WMD programs, which was a huge step in stopping terrorism over there. Have things progressed from that point (i.e. it kind of looks like we might not need to invade Syria in the near future, etc.), or has it not moved farther from there (and hence you are of the opinion that we might need to invade, etc.)?

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:Dude - you are poo pooing every one else's ideas... don't you get it? You budge not one bit. You see NO good at all no matter the reason. YOU are being the stubborn one here. You are the person who has repeatedly condemned the soldiers actions, the government, the war, the fight against terrorism (which going into Iraq was ALL about) and have not stepped back to see that some of the points made were valid. They just had the cahones to disagree, and so far as I can tell, you haven't had the cahones to stop and examine things honestly.

I am not being stubborn in the least! Saddam is a bad man, I have admitted this and having him captured is a good thing... I have said all of this before! How can you say I am being stubborn when I am simply stating facts in the face of ridiculous emotional outbursts and insults?

How am I the one not examineing the problem here? The thing all the warhawks don't seem to get is that the people of the middle east are not like us at all! They don't appreciate the same values we do. Some downplay this torture of prisoners because how bad could being fondled by female soldiers be... to them, this is a fate worse than death! I am examineing all sides of the issue here, trying to see things from the point of view of the Muslims... something no one else has made an effort to do. Btw, how is what you claim I am doing (poo poohing the ideas of others) any different than what you are doing now? Because I don't agree with your logic then I must be looking at the situation incorrectly?

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:
As I wrote before, Iraq gave tens of millions of barrels of oil to known terrorist organizations. KNOWN. It is on paper, discovered by Iraqis and reported by Arab news.

Stop and think before you say things you have no proof of. Some of us were or are soldiers and you are losing respect on this board very quickly by stating things that are patently untrue, no matter how long a letter I write with tons of proof in it, like before. I did all that for nothing as it obviously didn't phase you and you ignored it.

What have I said that I didn't have proof of? That soldiers are committing murder and engaging in acts of unmitigating cruelty? Nope, I have news articles (complete with pictures) to prove those things. If I'm really losing respect from someone because I disagree with them, I don't want their "respect" anyway. I think, feel and act the way I do, and it would be a true act of cowardice to pull a 180 just so all you warhawks would get off my damn back.

Iraq is a bad place, and we helped to fix it up, but this is a pit stop in a military action that I would otherwise agree with. Is Iraq really just having an oil givaway to terrorists groups? I truly doubt that.

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:Iraq was a hotbed of terrorism. It isn't now. Afghanistan was a hotbed of terrorism. It isn't now. I personally think we should go into Syria next, as that is the worst hole for terrorists to go into.

By the by - if Iraq took over the entire middle east, which they were poised to do in the early 90's, the Arabs there asked for help, should we have sat on our thumbs as you suggest and let them be invaded?

Do you remember a Prime Minister of England who had your outlook and ended up with the Nazis on his doorstep? One step from invasion? If not for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor, the geography of Europe may look entirely different thanks to isolationists like yourself.

The comparisons are totally off base here. The Gulf War made some sense, to stop them from invading Kuwait, and the dreaded "domino effect" from taking place but this is a whole new story. Our whole premise for going to war was faulty, and if you can't see that, than maybe I'm not the one who's misinterpreting things. It's fact that no WMD's have been found. Either our intelligence is laughably bad, or we're not even trying to look for them... that should tell us something, eh?

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:Can you be honest with me and tell me if you supported Clinton in all the various sorties that he ran? Including, I might add, the accidental bombing of a Chinese embassy? How about the slaughter of the Rangers in Mogadishu because he didn't give them the armored support they requested? Sent them in to a place with 10,000 armed enemies? A friggin small unit? No Support?

Personally, Bush is right. His theory is right. I told you before, terrorist states are negotiating now where they were threatening before and that didn't make a dent in your "reasoning". All you worry about is their society. The religion.

I don't know much about Clinton's policies, but I like Bush's gung ho attitude in theory, just going to Iraq was a bad idea, and he went in on bad intelligence... he's gullible. The problem I have with Bush is his domestic policy and I think having him in office for another 4 years without fear of not getting reelected would be terrible. Of course, Kerry would be horrible for foreign policy... it's just picking the lesser of two evils... AGAIN.

Also, no one else is worried about preserving the culture or religion in the middle east. We stormed their land, the newest in a long line of invaders... the key mistake everyone has made up until now is just that, not having any respect or reguard for their culture or religion. Yes, their treatment of women may shock us, but we can't just expect them to change overnight, or really expect them to change at all... if they do, it should be their choice, we can't just force our values on them!

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:You never did answer me before about how their religion was better off with their holy places closed up and their Mullah's under house arrest. A fact young man. Who did that? Hussein.

Why don't you do some research on the mass graves found and tell me how their lives were so much better.

You keep believing your whitewash... for there are none so blind as those who will not see.

These people and places that were locked up were extremeists for the most part! Now that we release them we add a whole lot more enemy fighters to the equation.

I never said their lives were better under Saddam, but it's not our business to go around the world making everyone's lives better... if so, then why not go to Tibet and free all of those people? They are just as oppressed as the Iraqis were under Saddam.

I have never doubted from day 1 that SOME good came out of going into Iraq, but the bad is outweighing it, especially with the recent murders, torture of unarmed inmates, and the like. Something is going wrong here, and you're the one who "will not see it".