The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

TexasCowboy wrote:The thing you said was 7 (a) didn't exist as an NFL rule and kept calling out the college rule which is 4.3 (b) ...

Incorrect. Show me where I said 7a did not exist as an NFL rule.

What I said is YOU saying contact is NOT required is the college rule.

7a requires contact.

The pro rule and the college rule are different and you are on record as posting neither requires contact which is flat out factually wrong.

It has become apparent that at least 1 long-time fan of the NFL who frequents this message board is not aware of the fact that NFL rule 7a mandates contact by a defender as opposed to the NCAA rule which says that once a ball carrier falls down, the ball is dead whether or not he has been touched by a defender.

Since it would be terrible for a fellow board member to walk around thinking the NFL rule is the same as the NCAA rule, I have decided to post the corresponding rules and point out the differences - differences every fan should know.

Here is NFL rule 7a:

RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage
Section 1 Ball in Play
Article 1: Live Ball. After the ball has been declared ready for play, it becomes a live ball when it is legally
snapped or legally kicked (a free kick or fair catch kick). The ball remains dead if it is snapped or kicked
before it is made ready for play.
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:
(a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground. A runner
touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to
advance; or

Note the highlighted requirement of contact by a defensive player in rule 7a.

There are exceptions to the "when a runner is contacted by a defensive player" requirement. They appear in rules 7c and 7d, not in 7a:

(c) when a quarterback immediately drops to his knee (or simulates dropping to his knee) behind the line
of scrimmage; or
(d) when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground.

An NFL player can also kneel in the endzone and the ball is dead without contact by a defensive player.

Things are different in the NCAA. Here is the corresponding rule 4.3b

Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar; when a ball carrier is out of bounds;
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).
b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot

Note the lack of a mandate for contact by a defender.

Thus, in the NFL, by rule 7a, contact by a defensive player is required for a ball to be declared dead while this is not so in the NCAA by rule 4.3b.

Note that 4.3b has an exception too:

[Exception: The ball remains alive when
an offensive player has simulated a kick or at the snap is in position to
kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked,
passed or advanced by rule]

In other words, in the NCAA (and in the NFL for that matter), the holder on a placekick does not create a dead ball by receiving a snap while on one knee.

Seriously? don't deny it Monk you know you said it trust me there was no typo in your comment especially when you wanted to keep getting away from rule 7 (A) by using the college rule 4.3 B as it's replacement. Let's move on shall we next comment

The following are not denied

Contact, football moves, Possession, feet in bounds, legs, arms, elbows, on the turf

and since this is established there is nothing left to see here

TexasCowboy wrote:Seriously? don't deny it Monk you know you said it trust me there was no typo in your comment especially when you wanted to keep getting away from rule 7 (A) by using the college rule 4.3 B as it's replacement. Let's move on shall we next comment

The following are not denied

Contact, football moves, Possession, feet in bounds, legs, arms, elbows, on the turf

and since this is established there is nothing left to see here

I will show you. Here is the exchange:

TexasCowboy wrote:Show me where the ball hits the ground prior to his leg making contact with ground

DarthMonk wrote:

TexasCowboy wrote:Show me where the ball hits the ground prior to his leg making contact with ground

It doesn't and no one is saying it did.

Why does the leg contacting the ground matter? He isn't down the moment his knee touches since he has not been contacted by a defender yet.

TexasCowboy wrote:Because under the rule 7a is states the runner which is what a receiver is during the entire process from start to finish is classified as down the second a body part other than a hand or foot strikes
the turf

DarthMonk wrote:

TexasCowboy wrote:Because under the rule 7a is states the runner which is what a receiver is during the entire process from start to finish is classified as down the second a body part other than a hand or foot strikes
the turf

WRONG.

That is the college rule. You are leaving out the part that makes the pros different - CONTACT WITH A DEFENDER.

NFL rule you cited:

RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage
Section 1 Ball in Play
Article 1: Live Ball. After the ball has been declared ready for play, it becomes a live ball when it is legally
snapped or legally kicked (a free kick or fair catch kick). The ball remains dead if it is snapped or kicked
before it is made ready for play.
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:
(a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet.

NCAA rule you are using for your argument:

ARTICLE 3. Ball Declared Dead

A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead:

When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches the ground

See the difference?

Every week NFL runners fall down, get back up, and keep running. They can't do that IN COLLEGE.

TexasCowboy wrote:http://static.nfl.com/static/content/pu ... Scrimm.pdf

the rule also applies in the NFL idiot

DarthMonk wrote:

TexasCowboy wrote:http://static.nfl.com/static/content/pu ... Scrimm.pdf

the rule also applies in the NFL idiot

OMG

He thinks the college dead ball rule is also the pro dead ball rule and continues to leave out the key phrase concerning being contacted by a defensive player which is right in the very rule he continues to cite.

And then he calls me an idiot.

OMFG

The game is over time to move on

TexasCowboy wrote:The game is over time to move on

Yep, you lost. Let's see if you can live up to your statement above and move on.

I'm betting against it.

You know it's only a matter of time before the league does the same thing to you, Hope you realize that people, The league makes it crystal clear they don't care who anyone is? If they want the other team to win the game, That is how the outcome of the game is going to be? ah but alas it eventually does end, see MLB (Pete Rose) scandal, Barry Bonds and others regarding steroid use which crippled the league good

the NFL may think it can run and hide, but eventually they'll get you to

TexasCowboy wrote:The game is over time to move on

Yep, you lost. Let's see if you can live up to your statement above and move on.

I'm betting against it - and winning the bet so far.

#stillacatch

The 2 receptions in question were both ruled IN-COM-PLETE. It's time to get over it.
Also for someone who wants to move on. If you actually want to move on. Cease replying.

Only thing you need to do at this point is admit they got the call wrong which they did then you can move on

Simple fact is you think if an NFL runner falls down on his own that he's down by contact and you cite rule 7a which clearly states that is not the case.

Simple fact is you think the NFL and NCAA rules ares the same and every other person on this board knows that is flat out wrong.

Rule 7a mandates contact by a defender before anything else.

An NFL runner can crawl into the end zone and score. An NCAA runner cannot.

You lose.

Move along nothing to see here folks

DarthMonk wrote:Simple fact is you think if an NFL runner falls down on his own that he's down by contact and you cite rule 7a which clearly states that is not the case.

Simple fact is you think the NFL and NCAA rules ares the same and every other person on this board knows that is flat out wrong.

Rule 7a mandates contact by a defender before anything else.

An NFL runner can crawl into the end zone and score. An NCAA runner cannot.

You lose.

Didn't the refs rule both plays Incomplete, and were neither Super Bowl losing plays? If so. Time for this conversation to end. Cause both plays were ruled IN-COM-PLETE. Time to get over it.

TexasCowboy wrote:Move along nothing to see here folks

You keep saying it's time to move along but you don't - as I predicted.

Simple fact is you think if an NFL runner falls down on his own that he's down by contact and you cite rule 7a which clearly states that is not the case.

Simple fact is you think the NFL and NCAA rules ares the same and every other person on this board knows that is flat out wrong.

Rule 7a mandates contact by a defender before anything else.

An NFL runner can crawl into the end zone and score. An NCAA runner cannot.

You lose.

^^^ neither have you Monk, I mean I am not sure how many more times you can be wrong on this issue? especially in loo of the over whelming evidence that goes against everything YOU and the NFL have been claiming through out this entire discussion

might be time dude to give it up not worth it to sit here and defend a league that literally sunk their very own Titanic admitting to game fixing, Their admittance to this accusation is damming everything you got to say

#gameover

Didn't the refs rule both plays Incomplete, and were neither Super Bowl losing plays? If so. Time for this conversation to end. Cause both plays were ruled IN-COM-PLETE. Time to get over it.

Fails to mean they got the call right which raises another important question, who influenced their change? it certainly wasn't a "spur" of the moment change of heart game fixing anyone anyone

Didn't the refs rule both plays Incomplete, and were neither Super Bowl losing plays? If so. Time for this conversation to end. Cause both plays were ruled IN-COM-PLETE. Time to get over it.

TexasCowboy wrote:^^^ neither have you Monk, I mean I am not sure how many more times you can be wrong on this issue? especially in loo of the over whelming evidence that goes against everything YOU and the NFL have been claiming through out this entire discussion

might be time dude to give it up not worth it to sit here and defend a league that literally sunk their very own Titanic admitting to game fixing, Their admittance to this accusation is damming everything you got to say

#gameover

You are the one saying move on and game over - not me.

You keep saying it's time to move along but you don't - as I predicted.

Simple fact is you think if an NFL runner falls down on his own that he's down by contact and you cite rule 7a which clearly states that is not the case.

Simple fact is you think the NFL and NCAA rules ares the same and every other person on this board knows that is flat out wrong.

Rule 7a mandates contact by a defender before anything else.

An NFL runner can crawl into the end zone and score. An NCAA runner cannot.

You lose.