The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

riggofan wrote:Not sure about several steps backwards, but it seems like the rest of the division has made improvements this offseason. I'm not sure we're keeping pace at all.

At this point if they hired anyone as GM I think it would be a figurehead. Yes, the rest of the division improved in free agency. The rest of the division also didn't have internalized hegemony within the front office.

Compound that with the tougher schedule this season, the loss of the biggest and most experienced parts of the offense, and the fact that we're back to business as usual in the draft.

Ostensibly not a good outlook. They'd have to pull off miracles the Skins never pull off in drafts in order to even re-enter the discussion in 2017.

Add to that they still haven't signed Kirk Cousins. If their plan was for the team to stink this season in hopes he would cost less I doubt it's going to work.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote: the fact that we're back to business as usual in the draft.

Well, we'll see on that. I'm still not personally convinced that SM's two drafts were any better than the one led by Allen and (I assume) Gruden. Can't completely judge them yet, but so far I think fans are overstating that quite a bit. As it stands now I think there's an argument that the 2014 draft was as successful as the combined haul from 2015/2016 - and they didn't even have a first rounder that year.

I will admit, man. I usually love the draft and look forward to it every year. This year I have yet to look at anything at all. Just can't get excited about it. Not sure if its the McCloughan departure or just this godawful offseason in general. They've really sucked a lot of the fun out of following this team though that's for sure.

Lots of models have McCaffrey or Cook still available at 17th pick, they better snatch one of them. We need a killer RB and a kicker.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote: the fact that we're back to business as usual in the draft.

Well, we'll see on that. I'm still not personally convinced that SM's two drafts were any better than the one led by Allen and (I assume) Gruden. Can't completely judge them yet, but so far I think fans are overstating that quite a bit. As it stands now I think there's an argument that the 2014 draft was as successful as the combined haul from 2015/2016 - and they didn't even have a first rounder that year.

I will admit, man. I usually love the draft and look forward to it every year. This year I have yet to look at anything at all. Just can't get excited about it. Not sure if its the McCloughan departure or just this godawful offseason in general. They've really sucked a lot of the fun out of following this team though that's for sure.

What continues to frustrate me about the draft is the "we'll get our free safety next year" mentality every year. A decent free safety would make a huge difference to this defense, especially with these corners.

I think sometimes you have to say, "We want X prospect and we're going to do whatever it takes to get him" AND that prospect is something other than a quarterback.

Unless you're the Skins ...

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote: the fact that we're back to business as usual in the draft.

Well, we'll see on that. I'm still not personally convinced that SM's two drafts were any better than the one led by Allen and (I assume) Gruden. Can't completely judge them yet, but so far I think fans are overstating that quite a bit. As it stands now I think there's an argument that the 2014 draft was as successful as the combined haul from 2015/2016 - and they didn't even have a first rounder that year.

I will admit, man. I usually love the draft and look forward to it every year. This year I have yet to look at anything at all. Just can't get excited about it. Not sure if its the McCloughan departure or just this godawful offseason in general. They've really sucked a lot of the fun out of following this team though that's for sure.

What continues to frustrate me about the draft is the "we'll get our free safety next year" mentality every year. A decent free safety would make a huge difference to this defense, especially with these corners.

I think sometimes you have to say, "We want X prospect and we're going to do whatever it takes to get him" AND that prospect is something other than a quarterback.

Unless you're the Skins ...

No arguement from me as long as that prospect is a killer RB.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:What continues to frustrate me about the draft is the "we'll get our free safety next year" mentality every year. A decent free safety would make a huge difference to this defense, especially with these corners.

Not just that, but this idea that we have to spend a first round pick on a free safety is crazy. Adrian Amos from Penn State was a fifth round pick in 2015. Started all 16 games for the Bears as a rookie and 15 games last year.

Somewhere in the late rounds the past couple years we should have been able to find a solution at that position.

the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and fully expecting a different outcome each time

here we go again

we'll be OK ... we just need a player or two ... things will be better ... wait until next year ... give him time, he's going to be a good one

SkinsJock wrote:the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and fully expecting a different outcome each time

I always hate this stupid quote. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is also the definition of practice.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and fully expecting a different outcome each time

I always hate this stupid quote. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is also the definition of practice.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and fully expecting a different outcome each time

I always hate this stupid quote. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is also the definition of practice.

Or fishing.

oj wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and fully expecting a different outcome each time

I always hate this stupid quote. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is also the definition of practice.

Or fishing.

oj wrote:No arguement from me as long as that prospect is a killer RB.

h

Hey Kiper gives them a RB in his latest mock:

17. Washington Redskins

Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford | Watch highlights

Like I mentioned in Mock Draft 2.0: At what point should a team forget about what's conventional and just take the best football player? That's the value in McCaffrey here. The Redskins like Rob Kelley, but McCaffrey brings a different element to the offense as a runner and receiver, and he can be a return man, too. McCaffrey's 4.48 40 and 37.5-inch vertical at the combine eliminated any doubts about his athleticism.

I could see the logic since he can receive the ball and return as well. No doubt Gruden could make good use of that.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote: the fact that we're back to business as usual in the draft.

Well, we'll see on that. I'm still not personally convinced that SM's two drafts were any better than the one led by Allen and (I assume) Gruden. Can't completely judge them yet, but so far I think fans are overstating that quite a bit. As it stands now I think there's an argument that the 2014 draft was as successful as the combined haul from 2015/2016 - and they didn't even have a first rounder that year.

I will admit, man. I usually love the draft and look forward to it every year. This year I have yet to look at anything at all. Just can't get excited about it. Not sure if its the McCloughan departure or just this godawful offseason in general. They've really sucked a lot of the fun out of following this team though that's for sure.

What continues to frustrate me about the draft is the "we'll get our free safety next year" mentality every year. A decent free safety would make a huge difference to this defense, especially with these corners.

I think sometimes you have to say, "We want X prospect and we're going to do whatever it takes to get him" AND that prospect is something other than a quarterback.

Unless you're the Skins ...

If Malik Hooker or Jamal Adams drop to no.17. Then I would be happy if we drafted one of those two.
However the league has made the saftey position a top priority for most teams. It's likely two safties will be taken in the top 10. It's conceivable that both Adams and Hooker will be gone top 5.
49ers may take either Adams or Hooker at no.2. GM Lynch who was an all pro safety himself knows the importance of a good safety.
Jaguars may also go saftey as well since they lost there starting saftey I believe.

The next best saftey prospect would probably be Jabril Peppers. However he has shown that he has issues in coverage. He has very little interceptions in his career. I believe it's around 5. All though Peppers is a fantastic athlete and tackler. He's the same athletically as Hooker and Adams minus the elite coverage skills in the secondary.

If we had an elite defensive coordinator I could see us drafting Peppers as a near the line of scrimmage type SS. A role similar to how Troy Polamalu use be used in his latter years. But we don't know if our defensive Coordinator has a clue yet. So I think it's a reach at no.17 to draft any safety other then Adams or Hooker. It's arguable that Swearinger and Cravens are similar to Peppers. Peppers would be an upgrade at SS maybe but I don't see a huge upgrade. As Cravens when healthy has shown good coverage skills.

The rest of the saftey prospects are 2nd round prospects. They each have glaring weaknesses and are not as good as Adams and Hooker. Correction on Peppers he has 1 career int.

Some expert predictions on Pick #17. Man, this is all over the place.

Jabrill Peppers listed as LB (pick by D. Jeremiah and 2 others on NFL network and USA Today, etc......)
Caleb Brantley DT (pick by Casserly)
Dalvin Cook RB (pick by Brooks)
Christian McCaffrey RB (pick by Mel Kiper)
Haason Reddick LB (pick by CBS sports guy)
Zack Cunningham LB (pick by SI guy and Walter Football)
Reuben Foster LB (pick by Bleacher Report)
Solomon Thomas DL (pick by Fox Sports)

Are we drafting for NEED or BPA...??? And what the hell do these "experts" know...???

tribeofjudah wrote:Some expert predictions on Pick #17. Man, this is all over the place.

Jabrill Peppers listed as LB (pick by D. Jeremiah and 2 others on NFL network and USA Today, etc......)

I like Peppers, but the knock on him seems to be that he's a tweener. We kind of already have that with Cravens, don't we? Doesn't matter if he's the BPA I guess, but just a thought for people who are hyped about the idea of getting a safety with that first pick.

tribeofjudah wrote:Are we drafting for NEED or BPA...??? And what the hell do these "experts" know...???

Not much more than you or me from the looks of it. Interesting how those picks are all over the place position-wise. Got a lot of positions where we could use help.

I'm sure that Dan and Bruce will draft the BPA at a position of NEED .... after consulting with their talent evaluators

In this century, this draft plan has never worked out very well for this franchise but that could change with this draft

we're back to Redskins Football 101 under Dan Snyder

riggofan wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Some expert predictions on Pick #17. Man, this is all over the place.

Jabrill Peppers listed as LB (pick by D. Jeremiah and 2 others on NFL network and USA Today, etc......)

I like Peppers, but the knock on him seems to be that he's a tweener. We kind of already have that with Cravens, don't we? Doesn't matter if he's the BPA I guess, but just a thought for people who are hyped about the idea of getting a safety with that first pick.

tribeofjudah wrote:Are we drafting for NEED or BPA...??? And what the hell do these "experts" know...???

Not much more than you or me from the looks of it. Interesting how those picks are all over the place position-wise. Got a lot of positions where we could use help.

I didn't mean to imply that safety is the direction we should go in this draft. I only meant we seem to ignore needs completely at times. If you're not going to draft a free safety don't you get one in free agency? Aren't those the two options available? This team does neither year after year. If you know you're going to let your only decent defensive linemen walk don't you draft or sign their replacements ahead of time? It just seems like this team is disorganized from the top down when it comes to not only player evaluations but also planning for the future of the roster.

In a way that helps. Every position is a position of need so the best player available also fills a position of need. How's that for positive spin?

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:If you're not going to draft a free safety don't you get one in free agency?

You'd think so. I would argue that we have tried to get these guys in free agency though. The problem IMO is that 90% of the time players available in free agency are guys whose previous team was willing to let them walk.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote: .. I didn't mean to imply that safety is the direction we should go in this draft. I only meant we seem to ignore needs completely at times. If you're not going to draft a free safety don't you get one in free agency? Aren't those the two options available? This team does neither year after year. If you know you're going to let your only decent defensive linemen walk don't you draft or sign their replacements ahead of time? It just seems like this team is disorganized from the top down when it comes to not only player evaluations but also planning for the future of the roster.

Every position is a position of need so the best player available also fills a position of need. How's that for positive spin?

I like that ...

I agree - we do have some decent talent evaluators, at least, I hope we do - the problem seems to be that we mainly add & draft players that might help immediately without any regard for the future - there's no long term planning with these guys - it's all about hoping the guys we add will make the franchise better and then we'll just add more players

this does not take into account that if a player gets better, he's most likely leaving as soon as he can, so he can go play for a team that has a chance to play in the post season OR we'll franchise tag him and then not pay him what he's worth ...

More important to draft RB and try to keep thier Safety on the field and ours on the bench.

oj wrote:More important to draft RB and try to keep their S on the field and ours on the bench.

Please call the Redskins at (703) 726-7000 - they need all the help they can get

SkinsJock wrote:

oj wrote:More important to draft RB and try to keep their S on the field and ours on the bench.

Please call the Redskins at (703) 726-7000 - they need all the help they can get

Nobody home, I got a recording.

If Christian McCaffrey is sitting at #17..... should we draft him?

That boy is a STUD!!! I know, draft for need and BPA. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

these 2 will draft the player they think will best help the franchise (on the field and, especially, in the press) no matter what position he plays

So here's an interesting mock draft:

https://theringer.com/the-ringers-2017- ... .biauj9rar

17. Washington Redskins: QB Mitchell Trubisky, North Carolina

By slapping the franchise tag on Kirk Cousins a second time, it’s clear that Washington is not completely sold on him as a long-term answer at quarterback, and Cousins may not even want to be there anyway. If either side of that coin is true, the Redskins need a backup plan at the position, and by grabbing the mobile, big-armed, and accurate Trubisky here, they give head coach Jay Gruden a year to develop him as Cousins’s backup before asking him to carry the offense.