The Smart thing to do with Cousins

[El Mexican]

If THE TEAM had beaten the Giants in week 17, would that have trasnformed Kirk into a "winner".

Yes, that's whole point of the group of fans that prefer to trade KC.

He's a good QB that will never lead the team. He can shine with a group that has every part in place already.

At this point, he's starting to look a lot like Stan Humphries. Had some good games with us back in the day,

but really shined when he was traded to San Diego, a great team during the first half of the 90s that had an outstanding defense and solid RBs.

We need more talent to become consistently competitive.

[SkinsJock]

let's be clear I hope we keep Cousins

ALSO - this FO WILL continue building this franchise so that we are playing meaningful games in December

I'd rather have 2 #1 draft picks than a QB that:
1) does not want to play here
OR
2) wants a lot more than a really good deal

or both

[SkinsJock]

If THE TEAM had beaten the Giants in week 17, would that have trasnformed Kirk into a "winner".

Yes, that's whole point of the group of fans that prefer to trade KC. He's a good QB that will never lead the team. He can shine with a group that has every part in place already ... We need more talent to become consistently competitive.

not sure there are many that want to trade Kirk Cousins - most want to keep him here ... but ... No! Kirk Cousins play in the last 2 home games was incredibly revealing - we did not lose either game because of Cousins play at QB but these were games that clearly showed that he does not have that special "IT" factor - Cousins is not an elite NFL QB

Kirk Cousins may not want to be here or he may want more money than the FO wants to give him ...

This FO will make a really good offer to Cousins and it would be great if he's playing here next season

This FO will be working very hard to add a lot of players just as they have already done - we have played meaningful games in December despite being one of the worst franchises in the NFL at the end of 2014 - 2 seasons ago!

whether Cousins is here or not this FO will be working hard to find a QB to replace Cousins

[SkinsJock]

Where are these winning QBs you speak of ? Do they grow on trees these days?

no! but I have a lot of faith in this FO to continue remaking this franchise - we have seen a lot the past 2 seasons

I'd rather have a QB that can help the team win than one that sets passing records but does nothing more

Maybe Kirk should get out there on the defensive side of the ball?? I don't know what else you want the guy to do. I'm guessing maybe you want a guy like Mark Sanchez, you know, because he's a winner. Man I love when people throw the "winner" argument out there. If THE TEAM had beaten the Giants in week 17, would that have trasnformed Kirk into a "winner".

I want Kirk Cousins to be here but we don't need to have him here if he does not want to be here or if he wants too much money

Kirk Cousins is a good NFL QB that will get offered a great deal to stay - he's not going to become an elite NFL QB

[markshark84]

If THE TEAM had beaten the Giants in week 17, would that have trasnformed Kirk into a "winner".

Yes, that's whole point of the group of fans that prefer to trade KC.
He's a good QB that will never lead the team. He can shine with a group that has every part in place already.
At this point, he's starting to look a lot like Stan Humphries. Had some good games with us back in the day,
but really shined when he was traded to San Diego, a great team during the first half of the 90s that had an outstanding defense and solid RBs.
We need more talent to become consistently competitive.

I am interested to see what people think our record would have been without Cousins playing. Remember, Cousins finished 5th in the NFL in QBR --- the metric used to determine how much a QB contributed to the outcome of a game. IMHO, without Cousins we lose to MIN, GB, NYG1, PHI2 and CIN. Stopping there that puts us at 4-12. So --- how much "talent" is really around him? We have a bottom 5 DEF, bottom 10 ST, below avg. RB, a TE that can't stay on the field, very good WRs, and a mediocre (and IMHO, below avg.) OL.

Outside of WRs (which will be gone next season), we don't have any "top tier" positions --- yet I hear how Cousins "needs" all this talent in order to win. We have had back-to-back winning seasons with, what I consider, all-around below average talent. Now, I agree that he needs above average talent to WIN playoff games --- but so does everyone. Teams I think are "playoff winning" contenders and their QB supporting situations:
- Prescott is on the most talented OFF team (outside the QB position) in the NFL; I don't think more needs to be said.
- Brady has one of the best OLs (outside of DAL), a top 3 DEF, good RB and WRs, and arguably the best HC of ALL TIME
- Wilson has one of the all time best DEFs in the NFL and a beneficial schedule
- Roeth is on a stacked team with arguably the best RB and WR in the game as well as a top 10 DEF and 2nd best HC in the game
- KC's Smith is a well-known game manager with great players all around him
- Eli has a top 5 DEF, with a bottom 6 OFF; last 5 games their OFF scored 14, 10, 17, 19 and 13 pts, respectively. Eli was 27th in QBR this year.
I don't consider DET, HOU, MIA, ATL as "playoff winning teams"

The only two exceptions are GB and Carr; both are MVP candidates, but even still they have better supporting players than Cousins.

[SkinsJock]

again, this is simple - most Redskins fans want to keep Kirk Cousins if he wants to stay and play for a huge contract

if he does not want to do that we should tag him and get 2 1st round picks

[PAPDOG67]

again, this is simple - most Redskins fans want to keep Kirk Cousins if he wants to stay and play for a huge contract

if he does not want to do that we should tag him and get 2 1st round picks

You can keep your 1st round picks. They don't mean squat. 1/2 of them never pan out anyway. The only team with a worse QB carosel in the last 20 years has been Cleveland. Why would we want to go back to playing with/like the dregs of the NFL like they are? We have a guy who has proven he can get the job done. I know a lot of people on here are still pissed about week 17, I get it, but who's a better option? If you have a better option I'm all ears, just pleased don't make it some pimply faced kid coming out of college who we have to develop again. I'm done with the QB carosel. Increase the overall talent on the team and you'll see the win totals increase with Kirk.

[SkinsJock]

again, this is simple - most Redskins fans want to keep Kirk Cousins if he wants to stay and play for a huge contract - if he does not want to do that we should tag him and get 2 1st round picks

You can keep your 1st round picks. They don't mean squat. 1/2 of them never pan out anyway. The only team with a worse QB carosel in the last 20 years has been Cleveland. Why would we want to go back to playing with/like the dregs of the NFL like they are? We have a guy who has proven he can get the job done. I know a lot of people on here are still pissed about week 17, I get it, but who's a better option? If you have a better option I'm all ears, just pleased don't make it some pimply faced kid coming out of college who we have to develop again. I'm done with the QB carosel. Increase the overall talent on the team and you'll see the win totals increase with Kirk.

this FO would love to have 2 #1 draft picks for Kirk Cousins if he does not want to play here
I'm not pissed at Kirk Cousins at all - he's shown that he's a good NFL QB and that he should get a huge deal
OK - we offer Kirk Cousins a huge contract and he does not want the deal or he can get better elsewhere - do we ...
1) tag him
2) let him go
3) pay him whatever it takes, even if this will mean we cannot sign the other players we need

- maybe you, Dan Snyder and Vinny don't know what to do with first round draft picks - this FO does

[markshark84]

again, this is simple - most Redskins fans want to keep Kirk Cousins if he wants to stay and play for a huge contract

if he does not want to do that we should tag him and get 2 1st round picks

He already "played" for his huge contract. He carried the team this year (and last). He was a back-to-back top 5 QB in the NFL (per QBR). We are a 4-5 win team without him.

Teams give away MUCH MUCH MUCH more than 2 mid-level 1st rounders for unproven college QBs. A team like DEN wouldn't think twice about giving away their #20 pick this year and, what I suspect would be, their #25-32 pick in 2018 in return for Cousins. Same situation with AZ (#13 pick and most likely a 25-32 pick in 2018). You could throw in HOU too.

The reality is we either:
1. sign him for BIG $$$$ OR
2. receive the equivalent of 1 (yes, ONE) #6 overall pick --- when applying the NFL draft point system (i.e., at best a 2017 #20 or 13 and 2018 #25 or approx. 1600 points)

The second scenario wouldn't COME REMOTELY CLOSE to the value we'd need to DRAFT/REBUILD a QB that could, at best, be almost as good as Cousins.

If Scot traded Cousins, it would be the equivalent of giving away multiple draft picks and setting the team back multiple years. This isn't rocket science.

If Cousins doesn't want to play here --- you slap on the "exclusive tag". And make him understand what he has here during 2017. But I haven't heard anything from anyone that would infer that --- so that random scenario shouldn't even be in the discussion at this point.

[El Mexican]

Remember, Cousins finished 5th in the NFL in QBR --- the metric used to determine how much a QB contributed to the outcome of a game...

Stats mean little in this league. There are dozens of QBs who have racked up big yards and have won absolutely nothing.

Those other teams you listed have gone through long building phases where the QB is only one piece of the puzzle.

Our team lacks talent. We should build it even at the expense of trading a good QB.

[EA7649]

If Cousins doesn't want to play here --- you slap on the "exclusive tag". And make him understand what he has here during 2017. But I haven't heard anything from anyone that would infer that --- so that random scenario shouldn't even be in the discussion at this point.

Reason you might not have read that, because I think a lot of people are thinking of he's tagged next season his price would go much higher in 2018. And the way it's looked the front office hasn't been willing to budge enough. I've heard else where about exclusive tagging him. If you give him the exclusive tag it would help short term and buy more time for the future.

[PAPDOG67]

There's two real simple questions to ask all of you people who feel we should let KC walk. I understand you don't want to pay him elite money, but that's the way it is in the NFL these days. Either you have a QB or you're totally irrelevant. Answer me these two questions, guys who feel we should let KC walk:

1) do you see Houston or Oakland winning the SB this year? Like do they have any shot in hell at winning it?

2) Keep in mind I am not putting KC in these two QBs leagues, but Indy and NO are massivley deficient of talent on the defensive side, just like us, should they trade Luck and Brees for picks?

[EA7649]

2) Keep in mind I am not putting KC in these two QBs leagues, but Indy and NO are massivley deficient of talent on the defensive side, just like us, should they trade Luck and Brees for picks?

Great point but it's not as simple as that. The one to compare with Kirk would be Luck. Not Breed imo

About Oakland and Houston. Oakland it's a back up* bc the starter is hurt. Houston it's a bad contract last year.

[DEHog]

2) Keep in mind I am not putting KC in these two QBs leagues, but Indy and NO are massivley deficient of talent on the defensive side, just like us, should they trade Luck and Brees for picks?

Great point but it's not as simple as that

About Oakland and Houston. Oakland it's a back up tight end bc the starter is hurt. Houston it's a bad contract last yeat.

Which could very easily be us...is the point I think he's making?

[DEHog]

If Cousins doesn't want to play here --- you slap on the "exclusive tag". And make him understand what he has here during 2017. But I haven't heard anything from anyone that would infer that --- so that random scenario shouldn't even be in the discussion at this point.

Reason you might not have read that, because I think a lot of people are thinking of he's tagged next season his price would go much higher in 2018. And the way it's looked the front office hasn't been willing to budge enough. I've heard else where about exclusive tagging him. If you give him the exclusive tag it would help short term and buy more time for the future.

I think is does play into it. I think the Redskins have to get a contract done this year instead of a tag.
If he doesn’t want to play here now, I agree we should do what’s been said.
If the Skins make him play under the tag again in 2017, he’s gone after that. Now way will the Skins pay 34 mil for a third tag and I don’t think Cousins will sign a long term deal here after being treated that way. Of course this is predicated on him playing well, if he doesn’t; then it will work itself out.

[SkinsJock]

There's no doubt that Cousins contract is going to be in the elite QB range - that is what the FMV will be - that is not the problem

Kirk Cousins will be in such high demand that the price to sign him will be stupid and while there are some franchises that are badly managed (like we have been until Scot and this FO took over in 2015), this FO will not and should not sign Cousins to a stupid contract

Cousins deserves an elite QB contract - not because he's an elite QB or ever will be but because of the market for a good QB like he is

Hopefully they don't make the same financial mistake that so many other franchises have done

give the man an elite QB deal and if someone else wants to pay him more, tag him and take the picks - don't be stupid

Does anyone think that Kirk Cousins is going to be a really good QB - if the FO think so they will pay him, if not, they will be fair

I love this FO

[PAPDOG67]

2) Keep in mind I am not putting KC in these two QBs leagues, but Indy and NO are massivley deficient of talent on the defensive side, just like us, should they trade Luck and Brees for picks?

Great point but it's not as simple as that

About Oakland and Houston. Oakland it's a back up tight end bc the starter is hurt. Houston it's a bad contract last yeat.

Which could very easily be us...is the point I think he's making?

Exactly my point DEHog. We can either be a very talented team with some schmo under center and try to win games on sheer talent, but never realistically have a shot at the title, or we can have a QB who is more than competent and actually surrond him with above avg talent and try to win that way. This is also assuming we turn the draft picks that we would get in return into studs (no guarantee). In a QB league, I'll take a guy who has actually shown he's a competent NFL QB, and might even be upper teir right now. I know he's by no means elite, but those guys are few and far between. When was the last time a team with a schmo under center won because their other talent was that much more superior? 2000 Ravens is the last one that comes to mind.

[SkinsJock]

Exactly my point DEHog. We can either be a very talented team with some schmo under center and try to win games on sheer talent, but never realistically have a shot at the title, or we can have a QB who is more than competent and actually surrond him with above avg talent and try to win that way. This is also assuming we turn the draft picks that we would get in return into studs (no guarantee). In a QB league, I'll take a guy who has actually shown he's a competent NFL QB, and might even be upper teir right now. I know he's by no means elite, but those guys are few and far between. When was the last time a team with a schmo under center won because their other talent was that much more superior? 2000 Ravens is the last one that comes to mind.

the competition for Cousins could mean that some franchise will offer a lot of money to ensure they get him

some of us are hoping that Cousins will sign a really huge contract but not a contract that will inhibit the franchise financially

are you suggesting that we should pay him whatever it takes to keep him here?

this FO is not making a bad financial deal to keep Cousins here

GUARANTEED - this FO is NOT going to have some "schmo" playing QB here

FACT - Kirk Cousins has not shown that he's an elite QB or that he will ever be one
he has shown that he's a good NFL QB and he's going to get paid like he's an elite QB

[PAPDOG67]

Give me an alternative to Cousins Skinsjock. Are you OK going with Colt McCoy at QB next season? Because that's the alternative. Maybe Tyrod Taylor could be availiable? Ryan Fitzpatrick? that's who you're looking at. I'm not ok with that. If I have to slightly overpay Cousins than I do it to not have to watch any of the alternatives. I'll cut corners elsewhere.

[DEHog]

Give me an alternative to Cousins Skinsjock. Are you OK going with Colt McCoy at QB next season? Because that's the alternative. Maybe Tyrod Taylor could be availiable? Ryan Fitzpatrick? that's who you're looking at. I'm not ok with that. If I have to slightly overpay Cousins than I do it to not have to watch any of the alternatives. I'll cut corners elsewhere.

Tony Romo

[markshark84]

Remember, Cousins finished 5th in the NFL in QBR --- the metric used to determine how much a QB contributed to the outcome of a game...

Stats mean little in this league. There are dozens of QBs who have racked up big yards and have won absolutely nothing.

Those other teams you listed have gone through long building phases where the QB is only one piece of the puzzle.

Our team lacks talent. We should build it even at the expense of trading a good QB.

You must have absolutely no clue what QBR is --- because it basically is proving the point you are trying to make. QBR is the stat that cuts thru the BS of, well, stats: http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post ... ack-rating. So QBR is a metric used to disseminate stats from ACTUAL CONTRIBUTION.

The team lacks talent, I agree. But we have talent at the most important position in the sport. If you have talent at the QB position ---- you don't piss it away. Money talks. Why do you think mediocre QBs make more than top OL, DLs, LBs, etc. ---- because they are more important.

THE HARDEST WAY TO BUILD IS WITHOUT A QB. You think a team with an average DEF and no QB will get anywhere??? Getting rid of your best player --- who is also your QB --- in order to "build" is the most asinine thing I have heard. So you propose that we should trade a KNOWN, top 5 QB in exchange for 2 mid to late first round draft picks --- picks which statistically have a 56% chance of being starters???? Dude, that is just plain idiotic.

[El Mexican]

Dude, that is just plain idiotic.

Again, numbers mean nothing in this league.

Let me dismantle your QBR argument right now:

Four of the top 10 QBs on that list did not go to the playoffs: WSH, NO, IND and BUF

Guess what? Six of the top 10 QBs on the regular NFL rating system missed the postseason: NO, WSH, SD, BAL, IND and ARI.

That's a huge difference, right? RIGHT?!

Not really. So let's drop all this quantitative analysis nonsense and focus on what we saw with our own eyes during this season:

KC is a good QB that has market value and we are a team that has big talent gaps.

We should use that to our advantage and get something out of the situation to improve our team.

Otherwise, we are looking at fringe playoff performances and uneven seasons. One and done at the best (remember GB?).

[SkinsJock]

Give me an alternative to Cousins Skinsjock. Are you OK going with Colt McCoy at QB next season? Because that's the alternative. Maybe Tyrod Taylor could be availiable? Ryan Fitzpatrick? that's who you're looking at. I'm not ok with that. If I have to slightly overpay Cousins than I do it to not have to watch any of the alternatives. I'll cut corners elsewhere.

IF this FO is OK with locking Cousins into a long term deal at whatever price it takes, then they will do that - I don't think that happens

this FO will give Cousins a really good deal and if the market price is much more than that, which some stupid GMs might want to give him, then we should tag him and have him play here for another season or get 2 1st picks for him

you refer to "slightly overpaying Cousins" that is not what we're talking about here - we're talking about grossly overpaying Cousins

IF the price is slightly over FMV it's not a question ... this FO knows what it is doing and how hard it is to find a good QB
at the same time, they will not and should not put together a deal for Cousins that hurts the franchise

it's really a rhetorical question because this FO is NOT stupid and will not make a stupid deal to keep Cousins here - NOT WORTH IT

great deal for Cousins, yes! - stupid deal to keep Cousins - NOT WORTH IT

I doubt that there are too many franchises out there that will pay stupid money, but, it only takes 1 and they can have him

we'd love to have 2 first round draft picks from a stupid GM - we've got a good GM

[SkinsJock]

just because we don't have Cousins does not mean that we will not have a good QB - it will take longer, of course, but that is preferable to not having a good team and just having a good QB - Cousins is not worth it

this FO has transformed this franchise from the end of 2014 when we were one of the worst in the NFL - they know what they are doing

[PAPDOG67]

I have confidence in Scott, but his a$$ is on the line too and he knows it. If we let KC walk and get those 2 draft picks back, those guys are going to take time to develop. Also that and if we replace KC with a middle of the road QB, or another rookie (god forbid) you're looking at reverting back to 5-11, 6-10 seasons at best. That's just a fact of life. If we go thru two seasons like that, do you really think Scott has a job here in 2019?