The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:In ten years, no one will give one rat's ass about player of the month awards. We're going to need playoff wins.

Easy, man. He can't win playoff games in November!

To hell with reason!

BGF is still hot about that Dallas game! Man, I hope they deliver a win for you this weekend!!!

riggofan wrote:BGF is still hot about that Dallas game! Man, I hope they deliver a win for you this weekend!!!

I hate those mother effers. They have no business being 10-1. The team I saw isn't that good.

I like to think they'll choke in the playoffs, as always, but I thought that about Eli Manning twice, too.

The reality is, all you need is to get there, and then it's a reset and anything can happen.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

riggofan wrote:BGF is still hot about that Dallas game! Man, I hope they deliver a win for you this weekend!!!

I hate those mother effers. They have no business being 10-1. The team I saw isn't that good. I like to think they'll choke in the playoffs, as always, but I thought that about Eli Manning twice, too.
The reality is, all you need is to get there, and then it's a reset and anything can happen.

I agree - these pukes are not the team that the giants were when they made their late season run

we need to take care of business and hope we get them in the playoffs

then .... The Best Redskin In Decades can have another 450+ yard game

DarthMonk wrote:Help requested. I saw a stat the other day where only 2 other guys had dome something and 1 was Larry Brown. Might've been something he did in first 10 games of a season.

Anyone else see and remember?

Found it:

David Johnson is 3rd player since 1970 w/ 100+ scrimmage yards in each of team’s 1st 10 games (Larry Brown 1972, Edgerrin James 2000 & 2005)

My vote for best Redskin ever is Charley Taylor. He was Jerry Rice with better running skills.

At this point Kirk is probably among our top 5 QBs along with Sammy Baugh and Sonny.

Cousins is playing well and if he continues to do so for a few years and add a few playoff wins to his resume, he could very well be a part of this discussion ... but he's got a long way to go to even start that conversation

DarthMonk wrote: At this point Kirk is probably among our top 5 QBs along with Sammy Baugh and Sonny.

Honestly, my knee-jerk reaction is "WTF -- top 5, ALL TIME ???"

Of the "80 greatest redskins" --- 6 are QBs (Sammy, Sonny, Theismann, Rypien, LeBaron, and Williams)

So when you look at our QB history, we don't have that many really great QBs, outside of Sammy and Sonny. I think you can throw Theismann in there at 3 and Rypien would hold strong at #4. Now, the argument is whether Cousins would beat out LeBaron and Williams.

For me, it is really a judgment call and very subjective, depending on what you "value". LeBaron was a 3-time pro bowler with the skins; however, held a losing record and his stats were pretty average (based on the time) --- HOWEVER, when comparing, the fact those were VERY VERY different times needs to be taken into account (back then the BEST QBs had more INTs than TDs, and the average yards passing per game was about 140). It also needs to be considered that back then there were only like 12 teams, so making the probowl was easier.

Doug Williams only started 14 regular season games for us and held a record of 5-9. In all reality, he was a below average QB. HOWEVER, what he accomplished in the playoffs of the 1987 season was one of the most impactful things any redskins has ever done. He was also a SB MVP.

Meanwhile, Cousins has thrown up monster stats and has been a MAJOR catalyst in transforming a losing organization into at least a respectable one. He also has amassed a number of skin all time passing records in a very short time. While those are great, we have to factor in that he has only really played 2 full seasons as our starting QB.

I think it is just too early to put him in the top 5, but when you look at potential and what he has done in basically 27 games, there is a real possibility (assuming we get a long term deal in place) that he could end up in the top 2.

markshark84 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote: At this point Kirk is probably among our top 5 QBs along with Sammy Baugh and Sonny.

Honestly, my knee-jerk reaction is "WTF -- top 5, ALL TIME ???"

Of the "80 greatest redskins" --- 6 are QBs (Sammy, Sonny, Theismann, Rypien, LeBaron, and Williams)

So when you look at our QB history, we don't have that many really great QBs, outside of Sammy and Sonny. I think you can throw Theismann in there at 3 and Rypien would hold strong at #4. Now, the argument is whether Cousins would beat out LeBaron and Williams.

For me, it is really a judgment call and very subjective, depending on what you "value". LeBaron was a 3-time pro bowler with the skins; however, held a losing record and his stats were pretty average (based on the time) --- HOWEVER, when comparing, the fact those were VERY VERY different times needs to be taken into account (back then the BEST QBs had more INTs than TDs, and the average yards passing per game was about 140). It also needs to be considered that back then there were only like 12 teams, so making the probowl was easier.

Doug Williams only started 14 regular season games for us and held a record of 5-9. In all reality, he was a below average QB. HOWEVER, what he accomplished in the playoffs of the 1987 season was one of the most impactful things any redskins has ever done. He was also a SB MVP.

Meanwhile, Cousins has thrown up monster stats and has been a MAJOR catalyst in transforming a losing organization into at least a respectable one. He also has amassed a number of skin all time passing records in a very short time. While those are great, we have to factor in that he has only really played 2 full seasons as our starting QB.

I think it is just too early to put him in the top 5, but when you look at potential and what he has done in basically 27 games, there is a real possibility (assuming we get a long term deal in place) that he could end up in the top 2.

I thought it was close too. I considered Joe T, Doug, and Mark. I pretty much drew the same conclusions you did. Cousins is probably on their level right now. You probably have to put Joe in there and then start arguing. Mark R. was also a SB MVP

My comp for Cousins is still Bart Starr.

DarthMonk wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote: At this point Kirk is probably among our top 5 QBs along with Sammy Baugh and Sonny.

Honestly, my knee-jerk reaction is "WTF -- top 5, ALL TIME ???"

Of the "80 greatest redskins" --- 6 are QBs (Sammy, Sonny, Theismann, Rypien, LeBaron, and Williams)

So when you look at our QB history, we don't have that many really great QBs, outside of Sammy and Sonny. I think you can throw Theismann in there at 3 and Rypien would hold strong at #4. Now, the argument is whether Cousins would beat out LeBaron and Williams.

For me, it is really a judgment call and very subjective, depending on what you "value". LeBaron was a 3-time pro bowler with the skins; however, held a losing record and his stats were pretty average (based on the time) --- HOWEVER, when comparing, the fact those were VERY VERY different times needs to be taken into account (back then the BEST QBs had more INTs than TDs, and the average yards passing per game was about 140). It also needs to be considered that back then there were only like 12 teams, so making the probowl was easier.

Doug Williams only started 14 regular season games for us and held a record of 5-9. In all reality, he was a below average QB. HOWEVER, what he accomplished in the playoffs of the 1987 season was one of the most impactful things any redskins has ever done. He was also a SB MVP.

Meanwhile, Cousins has thrown up monster stats and has been a MAJOR catalyst in transforming a losing organization into at least a respectable one. He also has amassed a number of skin all time passing records in a very short time. While those are great, we have to factor in that he has only really played 2 full seasons as our starting QB.

I think it is just too early to put him in the top 5, but when you look at potential and what he has done in basically 27 games, there is a real possibility (assuming we get a long term deal in place) that he could end up in the top 2.

I thought it was close too. I considered Joe T, Doug, and Mark. I pretty much drew the same conclusions you did. Cousins is probably on their level right now. You probably have to put Joe in there and then start arguing. Mark R. was also a SB MVP

My comp for Cousins is still Bart Starr.

I'm not really sure you can include Ryp in there either. Taking nothing away from 1991 (the best team in NFL history), he had a fairly good season in 1990, but we lost in the playoffs. Other than that he really never did much for the team. He did have maybe the prettiest deep ball of any Redskins QB.

Deadskins wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

markshark84 wrote: Honestly, my knee-jerk reaction is "WTF -- top 5, ALL TIME ???"

Of the "80 greatest redskins" --- 6 are QBs (Sammy, Sonny, Theismann, Rypien, LeBaron, and Williams)

So when you look at our QB history, we don't have that many really great QBs, outside of Sammy and Sonny. I think you can throw Theismann in there at 3 and Rypien would hold strong at #4. Now, the argument is whether Cousins would beat out LeBaron and Williams.

For me, it is really a judgment call and very subjective, depending on what you "value". LeBaron was a 3-time pro bowler with the skins; however, held a losing record and his stats were pretty average (based on the time) --- HOWEVER, when comparing, the fact those were VERY VERY different times needs to be taken into account (back then the BEST QBs had more INTs than TDs, and the average yards passing per game was about 140). It also needs to be considered that back then there were only like 12 teams, so making the probowl was easier.

Doug Williams only started 14 regular season games for us and held a record of 5-9. In all reality, he was a below average QB. HOWEVER, what he accomplished in the playoffs of the 1987 season was one of the most impactful things any redskins has ever done. He was also a SB MVP.

Meanwhile, Cousins has thrown up monster stats and has been a MAJOR catalyst in transforming a losing organization into at least a respectable one. He also has amassed a number of skin all time passing records in a very short time. While those are great, we have to factor in that he has only really played 2 full seasons as our starting QB.

I think it is just too early to put him in the top 5, but when you look at potential and what he has done in basically 27 games, there is a real possibility (assuming we get a long term deal in place) that he could end up in the top 2.

I thought it was close too. I considered Joe T, Doug, and Mark. I pretty much drew the same conclusions you did. Cousins is probably on their level right now. You probably have to put Joe in there and then start arguing. Mark R. was also a SB MVP

My comp for Cousins is still Bart Starr.

I'm not really sure you can include Ryp in there either. Taking nothing away from 1991 (the best team in NFL history), he had a fairly good season in 1990, but we lost in the playoffs. Other than that he really never did much for the team. He did have maybe the prettiest deep ball of any Redskins QB.

As a precursor --- I only analyze what a QB did FOR THE SKINS. I don't consider what they did for any other franchise.

Now, re Rypien --- I don't think anyone can argue he's #4 when you look at the alternatives. He was a SB MVP, 2 time pro bowler, was 45-27 as a starter, 101-75 TD/INT and QB of the greatest offensive season had by the franchise. As a skin, he is all-time 4th in passing, 5th in TDs, and 4th in wins (hard in include other stuff).

Now the one player I failed to mention is Billy Kilmer. He is the only QB that could really edge him out, but he wasn't a SB winner. In fact, Billy was 2-5 in the playoffs; Rypien was 5-2. Kilmer was with the franchise longer, but didn't accomplish as much. I'd actually put Kilmer at 5.

It's a bit premature to say he's already one of the best. But if Big Cuz can maintain numbers like this then it won't be to out of line to declare him as an all time Redskins great:
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/12/02/nfl- ... washington

DarthMonk wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Help requested. I saw a stat the other day where only 2 other guys had dome something and 1 was Larry Brown. Might've been something he did in first 10 games of a season.

Anyone else see and remember?

Found it:

David Johnson is 3rd player since 1970 w/ 100+ scrimmage yards in each of team’s 1st 10 games (Larry Brown 1972, Edgerrin James 2000 & 2005)

My vote for best Redskin ever is Charley Taylor. He was Jerry Rice with better running skills.

At this point Kirk is probably among our top 5 QBs along with Sammy Baugh and Sonny.

Charley Taylor at WR was like the invention of nuclear weapons. He was big, fast, ran hard, and as a running back, Taylor made cuts that had defenders falling out of their shoes. Rookie-of-the-year as RB. Great hands. Tough blocker: I think the crack-back block was outlawed after Charley crippled several defensive ends (mess with Sonny, and Charley was likely to break your knee). My memory: Otto Graham switched Charley Taylor from RB to WR about midway through the 1966 season, and Taylor led the NFL in passes caught.

Taylor was a great Redskin back - back in those days we just thought of them as great players ...

this poster wants us to know that it's his opinion that Cousins Is The Best Redskin in Decades

not the best Redskin QB, The Best Redskin player

The Best Redskin In Decades better find a way to make some magic happen - that was horrible

SkinsJock wrote:The Best Redskin In Decades better find a way to make some magic happen - that was horrible

He doesn't play defense.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The Best Redskin In Decades better find a way to make some magic happen - that was horrible

He doesn't play defense.

No, he doesn't. But, he was inaccurate for much of the game. He definitely shares some of the blame.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The Best Redskin In Decades better find a way to make some magic happen - that was horrible

He doesn't play defense.

He's just trolling, but I partially agree with him. Cousins pretty much has to have one of these 300+ 2TDs no pick games every week to even have a chance to win.

I heard it on the pregame shows all day Sunday. Every time they asked "How do the Skins win this game against the Cardinals?" the answer was "They have to score 30+".

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The Best Redskin In Decades better find a way to make some magic happen - that was horrible

He doesn't play defense.

the defense sucked too - but nobody's claiming we have a really good defense

Cousins Is The Best Redskin In Decades is the thread we are in - that was hardly even good QB play by Cousins

the coaches and the players had a terrible game - everyone let us all down - we looked flat and we saw bad decisions ... again

so, he's the Player of the Month and The Best Redskin In Decades

maybe he should play defense

SkinsJock wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The Best Redskin In Decades better find a way to make some magic happen - that was horrible

He doesn't play defense.

the defense sucked too - but nobody's claiming we have a really good defense

Cousins Is The Best Redskin In Decades is the thread we are in - that was hardly even good QB play by Cousins

270 yards 1 TD 1 INT on the road against the second ranked defense?

Cousins wasn't great by any stretch, definitely wasn't good enough. Pump the brakes though, you may be overstating your case. Which is what you seem to be complaining about with the guy who started this thread, yeah?

maybe - just very disappointed ... you're right, certainly not Cousins fault ...

we may need all 4 now - the thing is that each and every week a number of teams have not played well and the fact is that both Carolina with 4 wins and the Bears with 3 wins are still not eliminated - that is freaking amazing

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:The Best Redskin In Decades better find a way to make some magic happen - that was horrible

He doesn't play defense.

He's just trolling, but I partially agree with him. Cousins pretty much has to have one of these 300+ 2TDs no pick games every week to even have a chance to win.

I heard it on the pregame shows all day Sunday. Every time they asked "How do the Skins win this game against the Cardinals?" the answer was "They have to score 30+".

Without the midfield fumble returned to the 10, 27 points was likely enough. And with all the opportunities we probably left 4, 7, 10, or even 14 points of ripe low-hanging fruit withering on the vine.

SkinsJock wrote:maybe - just very disappointed ... you're right, certainly not Cousins fault ...

I hope I didn't imply that. I don't think Cousins had a great game at all. I wouldn't blame the loss on him, but he definitely shares some in it IMO. Looked like a "C" performance to me.

riggofan wrote:Cousins pretty much has to have one of these 300+ 2TDs no pick games every week to even have a chance to win.

No he doesn't. If he hits just a couple of the short-armers he threw Sunday, we win that game.

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:Cousins pretty much has to have one of these 300+ 2TDs no pick games every week to even have a chance to win.

No he doesn't. If he hits just a couple of the short-armers he threw Sunday, we win that game.

He already threw for 270 yds/1TD. If he "hit a couple of those short armers on Sunday", he would have had a 300+ 2 TD game.

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:Cousins pretty much has to have one of these 300+ 2TDs no pick games every week to even have a chance to win.

No he doesn't. If he hits just a couple of the short-armers he threw Sunday, we win that game.

He already threw for 270 yds/1TD. If he "hit a couple of those short armers on Sunday", he would have had a 300+ 2 TD game.

Yes, but also a pick.

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:He already threw for 270 yds/1TD. If he "hit a couple of those short armers on Sunday", he would have had a 300+ 2 TD game.

Yes, but also a pick.

The pick wasn't a short armer? hah. I can't even remember now.