Cousins and the Cap

[DarthMonk]

Does anyone believe Kirk will be an elite qb without Garcon and Jackson - which might happen if we pay Kirk the stupid numbers I've seen on this thread? Replace G & J with Doctson (if he's ever healthy) and some rookie WR or FA Wr that another team lets walk?

I'm worried he's a product of our good, getting better OLine and our numerous weapons...however, take away the two vet WRs, and replacing them with a near rookie WR and another rookie or FA WR. What that means is Reed and Crowder get more doubles and we're relying on the unknowns.

I like Kirk (don't love him), I just don't see him being worth that much cap space. If you read Mark Bullock's recent article on "The case against signing Kirk to a long term deal" it will bring back a bunch of his faults...overthrows wide open WRs (if you watched all the games, tell me you don't remember a number of those?), the dumb INTs he threw, and his propensity to not play well in big games. The Int vs Cowboys in week 2 was a back breaker, the final game against the Giants, the Panther game... I recognize the Defense failed us a number of times too but if you give him 20 mil of cap this year, it'll be hard to improve the D, OL and keep one or both of G or J.

I do think this issue is NOT -- is Kirk a good qb, he is..it's about, is he worth that much of our cap? 20 mil (which is on the low end) is about 1/8 of our cap! Is he good enough and enough of a game changer to warrant that much of the cap?

Will he be what he is 3 years from now? If so, I don't want to give him that much cap space -- be clear, it's not about money, that's Danny's issue, I care about the cap!

If Kyle wants him bad enough, I'll take their #2 this year and their #1 next year or a bunch of other lower picks, some being this year.

We could pay Kirk "stupid numbers" and still be $50 M under the cap heading into the offseason.

We can easily have $ 70 M in cap room before we sign Kirk so it's $ 50 M after we sign him and likely more since the early years will have lower than yearly-average cap numbers.

We're likely to have $50 M + in cap space after signing Kirk.

Projected salary cap amounts for the 2017­–20 seasons:

2017: $160.98 million

2018: $170.85 million

2019: $179.90 million

2020: $189.04 million

http://salarycapcrunch.com/projecting-n ... 0-seasons/

We should not be penny wise and pound foolish AGAIN.

[SkinsJock]

DM - I'm not against paying him a lot of money or even making him the highest paid QB in the NFL - we should pay him whatever it takes ... as long as (as you aluded to) there's enough money to allow us to pay all the other players we need to keep or to be able to add any free agents we may need - this has been the issue with other franchises when they've paid FMV or in many cases more than FMV, for a player, and then finding themselves in a financial bind

pay the man - just don't inhibit what we have to do down the road

franchises that have key players who are more interested in what they are paid than the opportunity to win are not very successful

We should not have any players on this roster that don't want to play here unless they are well paid, including the best Redskin in decades

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

We could pay Kirk "stupid numbers" and still be $50 M under the cap heading into the offseason.

We can easily have $ 70 M in cap room before we sign Kirk so it's $ 50 M after we sign him and likely more since the early years will have lower than yearly-average cap numbers.

We're likely to have $50 M + in cap space after signing Kirk.

Projected salary cap amounts for the 2017­–20 seasons:

2017: $160.98 million

2018: $170.85 million

2019: $179.90 million

2020: $189.04 million

Yup. And $50MM won't even come close to filling every hole having $70MM would leave, to say nothing of adding talent.

If this team doesn't add two or three marquee defensive players it's not going anywhere next season.

The offense is taking a step back because to have $70MM in cap you have to let both Jackson and Garcon walk.

It's not nearly as much cap space as it sounds like.

The thing is, I fully believe they will pay Cousins $24MM a year.

I also fully believe in three years we'll be asking ourselves why we paid Cousins instead of drafting X prospect.

Gruden won't be coaching this team in three years.

It'll be whatever next Jim Zorn type they could pull from the dregs of "not quite ready for the NFL" coaching ranks.

[SkinsJock]

It looks like $24M or $25M will be enough - I was under the impression we can sign Cousins to a long term deal and still sign all of the other players we need - we do need a bunch of help defensively but we also need the offense to continue to be effective as well

I have faith in this FO and in their assessment of what Cousins is worth to the franchise

[DarthMonk]

We could pay Kirk "stupid numbers" and still be $50 M under the cap heading into the offseason.

We can easily have $ 70 M in cap room before we sign Kirk so it's $ 50 M after we sign him and likely more since the early years will have lower than yearly-average cap numbers.

We're likely to have $50 M + in cap space after signing Kirk.

Projected salary cap amounts for the 2017­–20 seasons:

2017: $160.98 million

2018: $170.85 million

2019: $179.90 million

2020: $189.04 million

Yup. And $50MM won't even come close to filling every hole having $70MM would leave, to say nothing of adding talent.

I don't now about filling EVERY HOLE but you are starting to stray from the facts.

If this team doesn't add two or three marquee defensive players it's not going anywhere next season.

Probably right. OTOH, imagine what one animal in the middle of the D line and a good DC would've done for us. 2 more win easy - probably more.

The offense is taking a step back because to have $70MM in cap you have to let both Jackson and Garcon walk.

Incorrect. They are no longer under contract. We will have the cap space and need to decide how much we want them. They have to decide how much they want to stay. One, both, or neither may walk but we have the cap room heading into negotiations:

The Redskins currently have $113 million in 2017 cap expenditures for players under contract (cap data via http://www.OvertheCap.com). Add in $6.9 million in dead cap money for unaccounted for bonuses paid to Stephen Paea ($2.5 million), Chris Culliver ($2.5 million), and David Bruton ($1.7 million) and the Redskins are spending just about $120 million in 2017.

That’s the expense side of the ledger. On the available money side, the NFL salary cap for 2017 currently is estimated to be $168 million. That number could be lower, although that is unlikely. In fact, history tells us that the cap number usually ends up higher than the early estimates. But we’ll use the $168 million number for now.

Before we arrive at their cap space, there is one more calculation to make. The Redskins had $15 million in cap space that they did not use in 2016. Since the 2011 CBA, teams have been allowed to roll unspent cap dollars into the next year. Add that to the $168 million cap and you get a team cap of just under $182 million (numbers may not add exactly due to rounding). Take that and subtract the $120 million in expenditures from above and you have the Redskins with $62 million in cap space.

Only six teams have more cap space than that. The Redskins, like most other teams, can create more cap space by releasing some veteran players whose contract values outstrip their values on the field. Some possibilities for the Redskins:

OL Kory Lichtensteiger has spent large chunks of the last two seasons on injured reserve. After he was activated off of IR this year he didn’t play a snap. It appears that Spencer Long is now entrenched at the center position. Lichtensteiger’s cap number is $4.05 million and there would be cap savings of $3.5 million if they release him.

DB DeAngelo Hall has been injured the last three years. His salary in the last year of his four-year contract is $4.25 million and Hall is savvy enough to know that the team isn’t going to pay that to a 33-year-old player with his injury history. Hall is willing to rework his deal to be able to stay but the team could decide to move on and save the $4.25 million in cap space.

TE Derek Carrier played in eight games and caught just two passes. It’s possible that he wasn’t fully healthy after suffering multiple ligament tears in his knee, including his ACL. His cap number is just over $1 million and the team could save all of that by letting him go.

TE Niles Paul also had just two receptions in eight games before he suffered a torn labrum that landed him on IR for the second straight year. He missed all of the 2015 season with a broken ankle. Paul is a special teams captain and one of the coaches’ favorites, but the organization will have to take a long, hard look at the $2 million in cap space they could save by moving on.

The Redskins could make all the above moves and save nearly $11 million, bringing their available cap space to $73 million.

It's not nearly as much cap space as it sounds like.

I guess that depends on what one thinks it sounds like. The Giants made 3 huge signings on defense this past year yet are $28 M under the cap heading into 2017.

The thing is, I fully believe they will pay Cousins $24MM a year.

That would be a decent number given the current climate. A deal averaging that would not have a $24 M cap hit next year.
For example, Luck's cap hit this past year was $18.4 M and next year it's $19.4 M - and the cap keeps going up.

I also fully believe in three years we'll be asking ourselves why we paid Cousins instead of drafting X prospect.

Could very well be true.
OTOH, had we not low-balled him last year we'd be in a very good situation. He's be locked up for reasonable dollars, we could get out in another year or two for less than $20 M + $24 M + more if he crapped the bed repeatedly, etc.

We should also note he is 28, has started for 2 years, and has gotten better and better his entire football life.

Gruden won't be coaching this team in three years.

Could be.

It'll be whatever next Jim Zorn type they could pull from the dregs of "not quite ready for the NFL" coaching ranks.

Could be. Sure hope you're wrong.

[SkinsJock]

I'm hopeful that Cousins stays for $24M or less because he really wants to be a part of things going forward - this would also be a good thing for Gruden's future and I'd expect him to get an extension if the Redskins make a deal with Cousins

Hopefully the FO will continue with the BPA plan but we also need to use some of the cap money to bring in some good young free agents to make sure we have a good defense and good depth on the O line