Projecting Kirk Cousins with the Redskins

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

I don't like them either... but, as long as the backloaded contract is reserved for the true exception, rather than the rule, it should not be much of a problem... Regarding Cousins wanting to test his value in the market? It's moot. He will not get the chance. He is either tagged... or he signs a contract with DC. And, the reality is, the only way the Redskins "save" any money here, is to release Cousins... Not a chance in Hades...

It may not have any teeth but at least one DC area sportswriter / radio personality has suggested the Redskins may very well not use the franchise tag and allow Cousins to test free agency. His thought was there might be a "gentleman's agreement" between McCartney and McCloughan that the Redskins would be given the opportunity to match or compete with any offer from another team. The problem there is McCloughan would have to implicitly trust McCartney to give him honest numbers instead of having the Redskins bid against themselves, not that they've ever done that before.

[Countertrey]

I don't like them either... but, as long as the backloaded contract is reserved for the true exception, rather than the rule, it should not be much of a problem... Regarding Cousins wanting to test his value in the market? It's moot. He will not get the chance. He is either tagged... or he signs a contract with DC. And, the reality is, the only way the Redskins "save" any money here, is to release Cousins... Not a chance in Hades...

It may not have any teeth but at least one DC area sportswriter / radio personality has suggested the Redskins may very well not use the franchise tag and allow Cousins to test free agency. His thought was there might be a "gentleman's agreement" between McCartney and McCloughan that the Redskins would be given the opportunity to match or compete with any offer from another team. The problem there is McCloughan would have to implicitly trust McCartney to give him honest numbers instead of having the Redskins bid against themselves, not that they've ever done that before.

mmm... that would, as a pure business move, be completely stupid. Now, while the Redskins have some history of business stupid, that was pre-"real"-GM. Why would they surrender the only actual leverage they have??? Beyond that, such an agreement runs the risk of appearing to be... maybe actually being... collusion... and opening serious risk of real legal vulnerability...

[DEHog]

No one seems to be talking about it but if Cousins demands are too high for the Skins, they could just let him play the year under the FT…there are risk/rewards for both sides. This is the one advantage the Skins have; I don’t think Cousins wants to play under the tag….it would be a big risk that could cost him millions! Short of winning a Super Bowl I wouldn’t think the price tag would go up for Kirk??

[SkinsJock]

the end result is the same - the Redskins will have Cousins as QB in 2016 and this FO is not hurting the franchise with a stupid deal

[tribeofjudah]

Report: Cousins won't protest franchise tag
"People familiar with his thinking" tell the Washington Post free agent Kirk Cousins won't protest if franchise tagged.
That's good news, as the franchise tag is an inevitability in Cousins' case. The question is whether the sides can hammer out a long-term deal before the mid-July deadline.

[riggofan]

For those arguing in favor of the franchise tag for a year, I think this comment from John Keim is worth looking at:

I’ve never liked the franchise tag for the Redskins when it comes to Cousins because of where it could lead. If Cousins plays well, then he would have made nearly $20 million and will then be in line for a deal bigger than he would have received this offseason. If not, it could lead to another franchise tag and approximately $24 million payday. That’s $44 million in two seasons -- or the amount of guaranteed money that he might receive on a long-term deal.

Let that one sink in for a bit.

This makes me believe we're going to get a long term deal done before the season starts. I just can't see the team going the FT route for a year. Doesn't make any sense.

[SkinsJock]

If this FO really wants to keep Cousins they will only need to use the franchise tag as a last resort - they will get a deal done here

This FO knows what Cousins is worth - both as a future QB for this franchise and how much they need to 'invest' in him

I'm not as concerned as some here seem to be - this is a really good FO - Cousins wants to be here and get paid well - no worries


I'm sure the mis-information and media BS in the DC area must be amazing

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

For those arguing in favor of the franchise tag for a year, I think this comment from John Keim is worth looking at:

I’ve never liked the franchise tag for the Redskins when it comes to Cousins because of where it could lead. If Cousins plays well, then he would have made nearly $20 million and will then be in line for a deal bigger than he would have received this offseason. If not, it could lead to another franchise tag and approximately $24 million payday. That’s $44 million in two seasons -- or the amount of guaranteed money that he might receive on a long-term deal.

Let that one sink in for a bit.

This makes me believe we're going to get a long term deal done before the season starts. I just can't see the team going the FT route for a year. Doesn't make any sense.

That's stupid. If he plays well then he's worth the money. If he doesn't then he's not getting franchise tagged two years in a row.

[riggofan]

For those arguing in favor of the franchise tag for a year, I think this comment from John Keim is worth looking at:

I’ve never liked the franchise tag for the Redskins when it comes to Cousins because of where it could lead. If Cousins plays well, then he would have made nearly $20 million and will then be in line for a deal bigger than he would have received this offseason. If not, it could lead to another franchise tag and approximately $24 million payday. That’s $44 million in two seasons -- or the amount of guaranteed money that he might receive on a long-term deal.

Let that one sink in for a bit.

This makes me believe we're going to get a long term deal done before the season starts. I just can't see the team going the FT route for a year. Doesn't make any sense.

That's stupid. If he plays well then he's worth the money. If he doesn't then he's not getting franchise tagged two years in a row.

Stupid? You think it would be a good idea to find yourself paying $44m for two years instead of $44m for five years? And what happens at the end of that second year? There's no three year franchise tag.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Stupid? You think it would be a good idea to find yourself paying $44m for two years instead of $44m for five years? And what happens at the end of that second year? There's no three year franchise tag.

Again, if he's bad you aren't going to pay for the 2nd franchise tag. The first one give you the opportunity to a) lock in a QB for this season and make him prove he's worth a long-term deal, and b) address the fact that you have no other quarterbacks on the roster because a) RGIII is gone and b) Colt McCoy is a free agent and isn't a realistic option as a starter in any case.

If Cousins is the second coming of Quarterback Jesus this season then you have the option of tagging him again, receiving two 1st round picks if someone else wants to pay for him, working out a long-term deal, or letting him walk. Nothing says you have to pay for the second franchise tag. Keim is making a baseless assumption there. How many players in the history of the league have been franchise tagged in back-to-back seasons? Not many because 120% of the previous year's salary on a franchise tag is a fortune, as he pointed out. The last team to do it was Cleveland (Of Course, because they are the epitome of stupid ownership and management) and it was on kicker Phil Dawson, who makes a lot less than a starting quarterback. Before that the Ravens did it with Terrell Suggs back in 2008-2009. Those are the only two I can remember.

[Countertrey]

^

[riggofan]

Stupid? You think it would be a good idea to find yourself paying $44m for two years instead of $44m for five years? And what happens at the end of that second year? There's no three year franchise tag.

Again, if he's bad you aren't going to pay for the 2nd franchise tag. The first one give you the opportunity to a) lock in a QB for this season and make him prove he's worth a long-term deal, and b) address the fact that you have no other quarterbacks on the roster because a) RGIII is gone and b) Colt McCoy is a free agent and isn't a realistic option as a starter in any case.

If Cousins is the second coming of Quarterback Jesus this season then you have the option of tagging him again, receiving two 1st round picks if someone else wants to pay for him, working out a long-term deal, or letting him walk. Nothing says you have to pay for the second franchise tag. Keim is making a baseless assumption there. How many players in the history of the league have been franchise tagged in back-to-back seasons? Not many because 120% of the previous year's salary on a franchise tag is a fortune, as he pointed out. The last team to do it was Cleveland (Of Course, because they are the epitome of stupid ownership and management) and it was on kicker Phil Dawson, who makes a lot less than a starting quarterback. Before that the Ravens did it with Terrell Suggs back in 2008-2009. Those are the only two I can remember.

You did a lot of typing there but what you basically said is that yes, you would be cool paying $44m for two years. ok!

[SKINS#1]

Initially, I thought the Redskins should try to sign Cousins to a long term contract. Now, I think using the Franchise tag is the best option as it gives the FO and coaches an opportunity to see how well he plays this coming year with a tougher schedule (at least we think it will be tougher). If he doesn't step up against the better teams I'm not sure what the Redskins will do but they will have options.

[Countertrey]

Stupid? You think it would be a good idea to find yourself paying $44m for two years instead of $44m for five years? And what happens at the end of that second year? There's no three year franchise tag.

Again, if he's bad you aren't going to pay for the 2nd franchise tag. The first one give you the opportunity to a) lock in a QB for this season and make him prove he's worth a long-term deal, and b) address the fact that you have no other quarterbacks on the roster because a) RGIII is gone and b) Colt McCoy is a free agent and isn't a realistic option as a starter in any case.

If Cousins is the second coming of Quarterback Jesus this season then you have the option of tagging him again, receiving two 1st round picks if someone else wants to pay for him, working out a long-term deal, or letting him walk. Nothing says you have to pay for the second franchise tag. Keim is making a baseless assumption there. How many players in the history of the league have been franchise tagged in back-to-back seasons? Not many because 120% of the previous year's salary on a franchise tag is a fortune, as he pointed out. The last team to do it was Cleveland (Of Course, because they are the epitome of stupid ownership and management) and it was on kicker Phil Dawson, who makes a lot less than a starting quarterback. Before that the Ravens did it with Terrell Suggs back in 2008-2009. Those are the only two I can remember.

You did a lot of typing there but what you basically said is that yes, you would be cool paying $44m for two years. ok!

That's a bit of an oversimplification of what he said... which was not fair... He simply pointed out that there is a point at which it would be hypothetically worth it... a point most of us could conceive.

otoh... it was rather long...

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

You did a lot of typing there but what you basically said is that yes, you would be cool paying $44m for two years. ok!

TL;DR Version: Alex Smith is making $17.8Million this season. Kirk Cousins is a better quarterback than Alex Smith. He is therefore ostensibly worth more money. I'd be fine with paying him the franchise tag amount this season to see if he's actually a franchise quarterback worthy of a long-term contract or if he's a one-year wonder. I would not be fine with franchise tagging any quarterback in back-to-back years.

[hitmandm]

KC is a slightly better Nick Foles. He will never take us anywhere. Its good to see the Skins Brass not overpaying for Kirk "I cant throw 10 yards" Cousins.

[hitmandm]

Tom Brady had a 15Mil cap hit with a base of 9 Mil in 2015. Based on that, KC should make like 900K-1.5M. To say he is 1/10th Tom Brady is still overpaying Cousins.

[riggofan]

That's a bit of an oversimplification of what he said... which was not fair... He simply pointed out that there is a point at which it would be hypothetically worth it... a point most of us could conceive.

otoh... it was rather long...

Well to be fair, I asked a yes or no question. Even with all of the lengthy hypothetical explanation his answer boiled down to a yes.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. My main point was that I think its OK to use the tag now, but it would be a demonstrably dumb move not to work out a contract before the season starts.

I'm actually a little baffled about the reluctance around Cousins. There's always some risk involved with any player. Signing him to a starting QB level contract doesn't seem like nearly as much of a gamble as say, trading away multiple first round picks on a completely untested rookie QB, you know what I mean? The absolute worst case is that he doesn't live up to the contract in which case we're turning to a Colt McCoy or a draft pick. Its not like there is some other amazing option out there that we're passing over for Cousins.

I would think after two years with Cousins that Gruden should have enough information to make a call on whether or not he can roll with Cousins. Just make a decision and live with it.

[DEHog]

KC is a slightly better Nick Foles. He will never take us anywhere. Its good to see the Skins Brass not overpaying for Kirk "I cant throw 10 yards" Cousins.

Doesn’t mean they don’t covet KC, someone had to make the first move so of course the Skins first offer is going to be low… Now negotiations can begin. How do we know KC doesn’t want BIG money, the Skins could make that public if they wanted, my guess is they are going to act in good faith and not do it through the media. Actually it’s refreshing to see a “real” FO operate. Imagine how this could have going with DS…Kirk would have a $100 mil 50+ guaranteed contract already. Or worst yet Cousins would have never seen the field, been cut this off-season along with Gruden being let go because RG stumbled through another miserable 4-12 season!!

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Tom Brady had a 15Mil cap hit with a base of 9 Mil in 2015. Based on that, KC should make like 900K-1.5M. To say he is 1/10th Tom Brady is still overpaying Cousins.

The Tom Brady comparison is a false equivalency. Brady took a screwy contract to help the Patriots with cap space. What he should be counting against the cap is over $20 million, which would also raise the franchise tag amount since it would increase the top five salary average at the position. I think you're fully aware of this. You're going to need a bigger bridge.

[DEHog]

Tom Brady had a 15Mil cap hit with a base of 9 Mil in 2015. Based on that, KC should make like 900K-1.5M. To say he is 1/10th Tom Brady is still overpaying Cousins.

So here are the players the Skins should be comparing Kirk too...


Colt McCoy Redskins $1,500,000
Tarvaris Jackson Seahawks$1,500,000
Kellen Clemens Chargers $1,500,000
Scott Tolzien Packers $1,350,000
Derek Carr Raiders $1,342,951
Geno Smith Jets $1,254,901
Jimmy Clausen Ravens $1,125,000
Ryan Mallett Ravens $1,122,500
Tyrod Taylor Bills $1,116,667
Dan Orlovsky Lions $1,050,000
Luke McCown Saints $1,050,000
Michael Vick Steelers $970,000
Tyler Bray Chiefs $962,500

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Looks like it's going to be the Transition Tag for $17.696MM, which is a slight savings over the Franchise Tag. It also seems about correct on Kirk Cousins' value. Lest we need to remind one another the last time we had even a remotely competent starting quarterback. Mark Brunell? Brad Johnson? Mark Rypien?

[Countertrey]

That's a bit of an oversimplification of what he said... which was not fair... He simply pointed out that there is a point at which it would be hypothetically worth it... a point most of us could conceive.

otoh... it was rather long...

Well to be fair, I asked a yes or no question. Even with all of the lengthy hypothetical explanation his answer boiled down to a yes.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. My main point was that I think its OK to use the tag now, but it would be a demonstrably dumb move not to work out a contract before the season starts.

I'm actually a little baffled about the reluctance around Cousins. There's always some risk involved with any player. Signing him to a starting QB level contract doesn't seem like nearly as much of a gamble as say, trading away multiple first round picks on a completely untested rookie QB, you know what I mean? The absolute worst case is that he doesn't live up to the contract in which case we're turning to a Colt McCoy or a draft pick. Its not like there is some other amazing option out there that we're passing over for Cousins.

I would think after two years with Cousins that Gruden should have enough information to make a call on whether or not he can roll with Cousins. Just make a decision and live with it.

I can see most of your points... with the exception of the "dumb move" comment... it is what it is... if Cousins team is being excessively demanding, then you can't just roll over for the sake of getting a contract, and the season will dictate the following year. Frankly, I thing the FO will work it's butt off to come to reasonable terms with the Cousins team... BEFORE the start of the season.

[SkinsJock]

There is little doubt that this franchise is in good hands ... Cousins will not be greedy - it'll get done

[riggofan]

I can see most of your points... with the exception of the "dumb move" comment... it is what it is... if Cousins team is being excessively demanding, then you can't just roll over for the sake of getting a contract, and the season will dictate the following year. Frankly, I thing the FO will work it's butt off to come to reasonable terms with the Cousins team... BEFORE the start of the season.

hah. Yeah I think we're in agreement. If "demonstrably dumb" is too strong, I would just say there's a very strong case why a year on the FT would not be the wisest move. Which is why I agree with you that the team will get something done before the season starts.