The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Dude, anyone objective sees that Cousins is outplaying RGIII. He is has been vastly superior in terms of production to RGIII (based on last season) up to this point other than INTs last year. So yes, I am objective. I was a HUGE RGIII fan --- when he was good and making plays. Pulling out your "if this" or "if that" stats isn't being objective..... What has RGIII done better than Kirk outside of not throwing INTs --- or TDs for that matter --- other than his draft position???? And I want real stuff, not isolated games or taking this or that and adding it up. And completion % will need to be broken down into 2012-2013 totals for 1-10 yard, 10-20 yard, and 20+ yard pass attempts and then overall combined completion %. That is the only way to truly understand the real accuracy ---- and since the stat is schewed due to RGIII's dump offs. If you have time to do that, you're the man.

Never put words in your mouth. And your a hypocrite because I never said he was the worst QB EVER. I said he has one of the 3 worst QBRs in the league over the past 2 season ---- which is a STATISTICAL FACT. I also said he has the worst QBR of any starter over the 2013-2014 seasons --- also a STATISTICAL FACT. But it is also a fact you have supported the idea that RGIII is the best QB on the team and has been playing better than his stats indicate --- am I wrong in that, if so PLEASE CORRECT ME. Go back to the thread about the eagles game where you said he played very well based on his stats or after MINN where you said he was back or F&^% it, there are so many instances man. And your "if this happened" stats are NOT the perfect picture of "tr[ying] to paint a picture of 2013/14 of anything other then what it was"....

Also, are you saying that you DID comment about how RGIII was looking off open receivers or not making progressions? I am not saying you didn't, but I don't recall that. Regardless, I don't have to put words in your mouth. You have been an arduous supporter of RGIII from day 1 --- realistically in order to do that you have to have defended his play at some point, right? Are you really telling me that you have NEVER defended his play since 2012 or provided "if this happened" stats?????

Again, unless you are literally at practice, you have no clue what is going on other than what the media says --- a media generally controlled by the RGIII loving Danny boy. A media that said the same type of RGIII positive things in 2013 and 2014. And I HAVE BEEN keeping more up to date since I made that statement a couple weeks ago, so I am more in tune with what is going on and that statement no longer applies. You can tell because I post way more now --- I only post when I have actually seen enough to comment on it.

And your insane if you think Kirk has ever "been given the keys" ---- literally insane. Nothing more I can say about that. This has been RGIII's team since the minute he was drafted and EVERYONE ON THE PLANET knows that. Just ask THE OWNER.

So everyone that has a 1:1 INT ratio is now Rex Grossman. Ok, if you say so..... And Grossman wasn't inconsistent, he was actually consistently bad. Ironically, Rex had a TD-INT ratio of 16:20 in 2011, RGIII's was 4:6 (over 9 games -- less than 1/2 a TD per game ), and Kirk's was 10:9...... From a pure TD:INT ratio perspective RGIII is actually MORE LIKE Grossman..... So no, I wouldn't describe that as clever....

You need to stop eating up the hype that the Danny boy media machine is feeding you and actually look at things for yourself. And you need to stop caring about practice. It doesn't matter. The media will feed you what it wants --- we saw that with all the RGIII "i'm the best" comments. The only way to know what is going on is to SEE it for YOURSELF --- and unless you have traveled from New Mexico to see practices in VA, all anyone has seen is the preseason games --- and I don't have to tell anyone who has looked better.

But I agree I just want to see production at the QB position, no matter who it is. I am sick of seeing such horrendous play from RGIII and Kirk. But I want to be clear because I know it appears otherwise, but I AM NOT DEAD SET ON KIRK. I don't think he is the next coming or anything like that. But, I do think he is better than RGIII based on (1) the last 2 years of play, (2) his overall flaws, and (3) which of the 2 I think can overcome all the flaws they currently have in order to be a solid and productive starter. It is the lesser of 2 evils so to speak.

It also sounds like you need to get some more hobbies, man. If you lived in Houston, I'd get you golfing or something!

Hail

PS --- just posted this and saw it actually on the thread. holy crap it's long. sorry.

You cherry pick stats like the best if em! Robs dump offs don't count (despite his deep ball actually his best trait) and Kirks ints don't count... Then what's the point??

What has Bob done? Besides all the records he broke... I hold onto 2012 w hope of a resurgence- Beat the cowturds TWICE. Won the division. Made the playoffs.

He had a lesser supporting cast at that time and my hope is that we find a way to get him comfortable enough to do so again.
Never been opposed to Kirk OR Colt doing so- just not as blindly optimistic as my counter parts.

If you don't think Kirk was handed the keys last year.. then idk what else we can talk about on the matter? I mean he literally was handed the keys. All he had to do was win ONE damn game he started! Close vs the egirls.. but I'm also not so naive to think he might've done better w a better D and some pieces we now have.

I honestly think we hired the wrong Gruden... And will pay for that mistake regardless of who is behind center until he is shipped out of town.


Hobbies? Got plenty!
Golf?!?! Open up the wallet boss, I'll give Ya 2 strokes a side!!!!

Griffin has had 36 starts. The argument he needs more time just to figure out how to read defenses; learn his own offenses pass protection; how many steps to take when passing; proper footwork and anticipate receivers getting open is a bit ridiculous, at this point in his career. These are things he should have been competent at midway through his senior year in college, at the very least. By his fourth year RG3 should be able to know all of this. Hee doesn't have to rival Peyton Manning but he should at least be able to handle the basics.

Cousins has all those intangibles covered, far more, over RG3. Yet amazingly people have written him off after only 12 games because of his INT problem. Somehow Griff can overcome the myriad of his problems despite struggling with them for four years but Big Cous cannot overcome his one, with a fraction of the time # 10 has been given? Rubbish.

Tell me how he learns things he isn't asked or shown to do in NCAA?
Rubbish.
Cousins has been in the NFL just as long boss.. it didnt take long for Robert to set Redskins nation on fire his rookie year did it?
Ints are one thing. having the balls to overcome them- and the gusto to get it done in Crunch time is what he hasn't displayed... Some fear what he lacks is actually unteachable, whereas Robert might be learning (how slowly is up for debate) the things he lacks.


That said.. I hope Kirk can close the door on this, for longer then a cple games too

Bishop Hammer wrote:Griffin has had 36 starts. The argument he needs more time just to figure out how to read defenses; learn his own offenses pass protection; how many steps to take when passing; proper footwork and anticipate receivers getting open is a bit ridiculous, at this point in his career. These are things he should have been competent at midway through his senior year in college, at the very least. By his fourth year RG3 should be able to know all of this. Hee doesn't have to rival Peyton Manning but he should at least be able to handle the basics.

Well to be fair I don't think anyone was saying he needed this season to learn the basics on all that stuff. The idea was that this was his year to prove that he's making significant progress on those things. At first it seemed like that could very well be happening, but of course his performance in preseason makes it seem like he might be done.

Cousins has all those intangibles covered, far more, over RG3. Yet amazingly people have written him off after only 12 games because of his INT problem. Somehow Griff can overcome the myriad of his problems despite struggling with them for four years but Big Cous cannot overcome his one, with a fraction of the time # 10 has been given? Rubbish.

Cousins' INT problem has been the primary reason he hasn't taken over for RGIII as the starter. It's not something the coaches or analysts are citing to write him off completely. He's pretty much always been seen as a player with potential, whereas RGIII is probably now going to be judged as a closed case.

So I don't think we can make the comparison you are making.

Anyway, unless I'm jumping the gun, it looks like now Cousins will get his chance. I think we'll see the coaching staff be a bit more patient with interceptions than they were last year when the QB carousel was running full speed. If Cousins shows any competence he'll have plenty of time to prove whether or not he can be a starter for this team. I'm 100% on board with giving him all the time and space he needs to do that.

Irn-Bru wrote:

Bishop Hammer wrote:Griffin has had 36 starts. The argument he needs more time just to figure out how to read defenses; learn his own offenses pass protection; how many steps to take when passing; proper footwork and anticipate receivers getting open is a bit ridiculous, at this point in his career. These are things he should have been competent at midway through his senior year in college, at the very least. By his fourth year RG3 should be able to know all of this. Hee doesn't have to rival Peyton Manning but he should at least be able to handle the basics.

Well to be fair I don't think anyone was saying he needed this season to learn the basics on all that stuff. The idea was that this was his year to prove that he's making significant progress on those things. At first it seemed like that could very well be happening, but of course his performance in preseason makes it seem like he might be done.

Cousins has all those intangibles covered, far more, over RG3. Yet amazingly people have written him off after only 12 games because of his INT problem. Somehow Griff can overcome the myriad of his problems despite struggling with them for four years but Big Cous cannot overcome his one, with a fraction of the time # 10 has been given? Rubbish.

Cousins' INT problem has been the primary reason he hasn't taken over for RGIII as the starter. It's not something the coaches or analysts are citing to write him off completely. He's pretty much always been seen as a player with potential, whereas RGIII is probably now going to be judged as a closed case.

So I don't think we can make the comparison you are making.

Anyway, unless I'm jumping the gun, it looks like now Cousins will get his chance. I think we'll see the coaching staff be a bit more patient with interceptions than they were last year when the QB carousel was running full speed. If Cousins shows any competence he'll have plenty of time to prove whether or not he can be a starter for this team. I'm 100% on board with giving him all the time and space he needs to do that.

You are far too reasonable to be a Redskins fan.

I'm just glad that Gruden is getting to play the players he feels will best help this franchise - it was apparent that was not happening

I like a lot of what we saw in the game last night - hopefully Cousins finds a way to not turn the ball over ... too much

Deadskins wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

Bishop Hammer wrote:Griffin has had 36 starts. The argument he needs more time just to figure out how to read defenses; learn his own offenses pass protection; how many steps to take when passing; proper footwork and anticipate receivers getting open is a bit ridiculous, at this point in his career. These are things he should have been competent at midway through his senior year in college, at the very least. By his fourth year RG3 should be able to know all of this. Hee doesn't have to rival Peyton Manning but he should at least be able to handle the basics.

Well to be fair I don't think anyone was saying he needed this season to learn the basics on all that stuff. The idea was that this was his year to prove that he's making significant progress on those things. At first it seemed like that could very well be happening, but of course his performance in preseason makes it seem like he might be done.

Cousins has all those intangibles covered, far more, over RG3. Yet amazingly people have written him off after only 12 games because of his INT problem. Somehow Griff can overcome the myriad of his problems despite struggling with them for four years but Big Cous cannot overcome his one, with a fraction of the time # 10 has been given? Rubbish.

Cousins' INT problem has been the primary reason he hasn't taken over for RGIII as the starter. It's not something the coaches or analysts are citing to write him off completely. He's pretty much always been seen as a player with potential, whereas RGIII is probably now going to be judged as a closed case.

So I don't think we can make the comparison you are making.

Anyway, unless I'm jumping the gun, it looks like now Cousins will get his chance. I think we'll see the coaching staff be a bit more patient with interceptions than they were last year when the QB carousel was running full speed. If Cousins shows any competence he'll have plenty of time to prove whether or not he can be a starter for this team. I'm 100% on board with giving him all the time and space he needs to do that.

You are far too reasonable to be a Redskins fan.

I second this.

Smartphone radios are great cuz I get to hear ESPN 980 all the way here in Cali.

I agree wholeheartedly with Jason Reid: Kyle Shanny was the BEST thing to happen to Bob3 cuz he gameplanned for his talent and HID his flaws. And as a "thank you" note, Bob ran them (the Shannys) out of town.

Hey Griff, check your EGO and ......................get real...!!!
You deserve what you've got coming.............

Gruden gave Griffin the chance - it didn't work out - it seems that these guys are doing the best they can with what they have ...

time for Gruden to get the most out of Cousins and McCoy ...

markshark84 wrote:Never put words in your mouth. And your a hypocrite because I never said he was the worst QB EVER. I said he has one of the 3 worst QBRs in the league over the past 2 season ---- which is a STATISTICAL FACT. I also said he has the worst QBR of any starter over the 2013-2014 seasons --- also a STATISTICAL FACT.

So I just read something regarding QBR that surprised me, and I agree with the overall point you're making, becaues it's time to move on from RG3, tired of all the crap. With respect to QBR, ESPN pointed this nasty little fact out (as measured by QBR):

In the past two seasons Kirk Cousins has started eight games compared with Robert Griffin III's 20, but he has fared worse than the Redskins' incumbent starter.

QBR of Griffin (in 20 starts) over the past two years was a putrid 39. However, and what surprised me was that the QBR of Cousins during the same timeframe (8 starts) was 34....

PulpExposure wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Never put words in your mouth. And your a hypocrite because I never said he was the worst QB EVER. I said he has one of the 3 worst QBRs in the league over the past 2 season ---- which is a STATISTICAL FACT. I also said he has the worst QBR of any starter over the 2013-2014 seasons --- also a STATISTICAL FACT.

So I just read something regarding QBR that surprised me, and I agree with the overall point you're making, becaues it's time to move on from RG3, tired of all the crap. With respect to QBR, ESPN pointed this nasty little fact out (as measured by QBR):

QBR of Griffin (in 20 starts) over the past two years was a putrid 39. However, and what surprised me was that the QBR of Cousins during the same timeframe (8 starts) was 34....

I saw that at the gym this morning and was like

Kirk's QBR last season was 46.5 --- which is still below the 50 average. RGIII's was 33.5. Still, this was worst of any NFL STARTER over the past 2 seasons.

In all honesty, I don't think Kirk did enough against BAL to warrant the QB change. I was not very impressed by his performance. We'll see what happens....

Do as Gibbs did to Rypien (according to radio talk)....put Griff on IR and keep him out of harms way so he doesn't get injured.

Report: Redskins not trying to trade RGIII
CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Redskins are not trying to trade Robert Griffin III.
La Canfora confirmed ESPN's report the team was informed Kirk Cousins would be the Week 1 starter, but he denied the team was actively trying to trade Griffin. Despite the lack of trade talk, La Canfora called Griffin's future with the organization "murky at best." Griffin's $16.155 million 2016 option is only guaranteed for injury, so it would be in the Redskins' best interests to keep him out of harm's way this season.

markshark84 wrote:QBR of Griffin (in 20 starts) over the past two years was a putrid 39. However, and what surprised me was that the QBR of Cousins during the same timeframe (8 starts) was 34....

I don't quite understand how you guys are overlooking the 20 starts v 8 starts thing. That's more than twice as many starts and makes a huge difference when you start doing "averages". If you start 20 games and win 11 that's a better win average than a guy who starts four games and wins two. Its not really a big shocking comparison stat.

markshark84 wrote:In all honesty, I don't think Kirk did enough against BAL to warrant the QB change.

Yeah? You'd stick with Griffin?

riggofan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:QBR of Griffin (in 20 starts) over the past two years was a putrid 39. However, and what surprised me was that the QBR of Cousins during the same timeframe (8 starts) was 34....

I don't quite understand how you guys are overlooking the 20 starts v 8 starts thing. That's more than twice as many starts and makes a huge difference when you start doing "averages". If you start 20 games and win 11 that's a better win average than a guy who starts four games and wins two. Its not really a big shocking comparison stat.

markshark84 wrote:In all honesty, I don't think Kirk did enough against BAL to warrant the QB change.

Yeah? You'd stick with Griffin?

Just want to throw this out there --- I did NOT provide your first quote above, that was Pulp.

That being said, I agree that the # of starts is a big deal. Kirk hasn't been able to get in any rythm as a starter in his career. There is something to be said for that.

Secondly, if I were the coach, I'd definetely make a change, but I am not sure between Cousins or McCoy. I'd WANT to go with Cousins, but he made some serious mistakes out there, so there is a part of me that would say Kirk starts, but on a short leash. However, I am the type that would want to give my starter "the keys" in that they could have 3 or 4 consecutively bad games and I'd stick with them in an effort to show that I am behind them (and giving them confidence as a result). I don't think I could do that to either Kirk or McCoy right now --- but that structure is best for player success so that is what I'd do and therefore would need more time to make that decision (time we don't have).

So to sum it up --- I have no f#$@&*% idea what I'd do in Jays shoes...... I would keep 3 QBs though and have RGIII as our #3.

tribeofjudah wrote:Do as Gibbs did to Rypien (according to radio talk)....put Griff on IR and keep him out of harms way so he doesn't get injured.

Report: Redskins not trying to trade RGIII
CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Redskins are not trying to trade Robert Griffin III.
La Canfora confirmed ESPN's report the team was informed Kirk Cousins would be the Week 1 starter, but he denied the team was actively trying to trade Griffin. Despite the lack of trade talk, La Canfora called Griffin's future with the organization "murky at best." Griffin's $16.155 million 2016 option is only guaranteed for injury, so it would be in the Redskins' best interests to keep him out of harm's way this season.

The injury guarantee thing is popping up again as talk of a trade surfaces. That's really not that big of an issue: it only kicks in if RGIII can't pass a team physical by the start of the next season. People are talking about it like he gets the money if he ends the year on IR, but he'd have to suffer something pretty drastic (and unlikely) for the guarantee to kick in.

markshark84 wrote:Just want to throw this out there --- I did NOT provide your first quote above, that was Pulp.

That being said, I agree that the # of starts is a big deal. Kirk hasn't been able to get in any rythm as a starter in his career. There is something to be said for that.

Sorry about that! Misquoted.

riggofan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Just want to throw this out there --- I did NOT provide your first quote above, that was Pulp.

That being said, I agree that the # of starts is a big deal. Kirk hasn't been able to get in any rythm as a starter in his career. There is something to be said for that.

Sorry about that! Misquoted.

Not overlooking it, because it does matter in development of a young QB. But just pointing out that by QBR they were both equally crappy.

Cousins could have run away with the job last year if he wasn't turning the ball over. But he did. A lot. Hopefully he learned something from that experience, because there are a lot of things to like about him.

Ball security was not one of those things. His career INT% (4.7%) is awful. He was at 6.3% year one, 4.5% year two, 4.4% last year. Really bad. League average in 2014 was 2.6%...

Remember what happened to Cousins last year after the meltdowns? They basically deactivated him.

The fact that he's now the starter validates what Gruden was saying in his presser today, he's make "giant leaps" in progress from last year to this one.

At least he doesn't have to look forward to Willie Smith "protecting" his blind side... Kinda makes you wonder wtf is really going on... Weird

markshark84 wrote:......

It also sounds like you need to get some more hobbies, man. If you lived in Houston, I'd get you golfing or something!

Hail

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:...

Hobbies? Got plenty!
Golf?!?! Open up the wallet boss, I'll give Ya 2 strokes a side!!!!

Let's get this skins game goin Bruh!!

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:At least he doesn't have to look forward to Willie Smith "protecting" his blind side... Kinda makes you wonder wtf is really going on... Weird

Well when the QB shifts the line to where he has zero protection, it's kind of hard to block the blind side.

Especially if your name is Willie Smith and work at Goodwill- and you have cable :/