The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

So, if Kirk starts next week against the Ravens and looks even halfway decent...then what?

StorminMormon86 wrote:I'm legitimately curious...is there anyone on here who thinks McCoy should be the backup over Cousins?

I think that Cousins is the #2 QB but McCoy has shown why the coaching staff are so high on him being here

McCoy was selected to play after Griffin tonight because of what the coaches have seen in practice

I think they need to rest Griffin until they can get some decent protection on that line - the plays that they were running with Griffin in there were different when they brought the other 2 in but that is most likely because Griffin needs to do better running those plays

I'm liking our depth at QB

btw - did anyone here the stat that Theisman brought up on NFL.com about where RG3 rates all time on the QB list - he's # 29

obviously Gruden is seeing something different from his QBs in practice than the know it alls here

StorminMormon86 wrote:So, if Kirk starts next week against the Ravens and looks even halfway decent...then what?

If he does it with will Smith at left tackle, they should skip it all and put him in the hall of fame

brad7686 wrote:There's a ridiculous amount of Kirk man love in here. I like Kirk myself. But he did struggle behind this line as well last year. Rg3 took sacks, cousins threw picks. Either way, neither of them had time, and the start of this game was an indicator that things haven't improved up front.

+1 - thank you - for a while there I thought I must have been watching a different game

I think you have to be a coach to know if Griffin could've or should've called audibles or changed the protection scheme. I don't know maybe their DL just overwhelmed Washingtons, I don 't know.

I thought McCoy played decently Cousins looks prettier with a number of 3rd and longs, both of them look much more proficient running the WCO. Cousins seems to be much better than Griffin and McCoy much better as well.

Maybe the other team wanted to show him: No you're not the best qb in NFL.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/20/redski ... hing-staff

While the protection was horrid with will Smith and the Lions D came out with a fire (no Colt did NOT face the same pass rush) the play calling seemed to further ignite the pass rush with Rg in.
I don't know if the coach is to "blame" but not sure what good he thought was to come from keeping it going. I think like us fans he looooongs for positive plays from our 1s to build on. Unfortunately for us the starters we are missing are pretty detrimental to the scheme. Djax opens the field, Reed (Or Niles) has great hands and mostly missing the Silver back on the damned line...

Man it'd be nice for everyone to come back and to just demolish the opposing team... :sigh: one day

1st team offense - Cant evaluate the offense when the oline is losing one or two individual battles each and every time they snap the ball. No rb screens again! Just like last year. Rg3 has a total of 13 passes this preseason and has been hit viciously at least half the time with guys running free and some wonder why he is running out of the pocket on 3 and 16. Yeah of course a few times of those 13 you can point to a play where he could get rid of it...Other qbs around the league miss a guy on occassion too. He has to be superman on this team for us to win and have to play perfect. Colt and Kirk has played well but would like to see how they fair against 1st stringers.

1st team defense - I know we all want to think the D is better this year but they have yet to prove it. Gang of missed tackles, and linebackers look clueless in the zone. We have let both browns and lions run up and down the field when our 1st teamers are in the game. We stopped the Lions run but who doesnt....they havent ran the ball with consistency since Barry Sanders. No passrus w/o Kerrigan lastnight.

I watched every drop back of Griff's at least 3 times. He repeatedly had a first read breaking open (often sickeningly wide open), didn't pull the trigger, and ultimately threw late before getting crushed or took a sack. I am convinced that, numerous times, Kirk or Colt would have taken the same circumstance and turned it into at least a positive if not big play without getting hit.

I know I'm just a guy with a high-def flat screen, a DVR, and a remote, and I know the blocking could have been better, but I blame almost every hit Griff took on Griff. One way to slow a rush is to gash a defense when your first read is breaking open on a post pattern right in front of you while you have a clear line of sight and the DB is still backpedaling while giving a big cushion. Griff would say no to that option, move on thereby helping to create duress, then manage a dump off (or not), and end it all by getting hit awkwardly and hard.

He was horrible.

PS - anybody think D-linemen take special delight in rocking his world after his "best in the league" quote?



Detroit is good to terrific on both sides of the ball. Given that our offense could do nothing in the first quarter, holding Detroit to 3 points, 92 total yards, 1 FG, and 2 punts on 3 1st quarter drives was excellent.

We did give up an 11 yard drive for a TD after the fumble but then Colt led us on a decisive 10 play 80 yard drive for a TD which consumed 5 minutes and 35 seconds.

Colt was one play away from 3 TD drives in 3 possessions.

I can't help but wonder about the coincidence of RGIII telling everybody he's the best and the O line letting Detroit run him into the ground. McCoy went in to the same series and they probably don't need to wash his jersey.
Did the O line make a coaching decision?

I don't know why anyone is surprised at 1) our suckass o-line and 2) our fragile and lousy QB (RG3)...how long does this situation have exist before the lunkheads in the front office get it? RG3 is NOT the guy...he's a failed experiment...right now our best QB is Cousins...looks like it's gonna be another long, dreary season for Skins fans...

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

emoses14 wrote:I guess Griffin is supposed to block the d line in addition to reading the defense.

Reading the defense and anticipating the pressure will effectively block the defensive line. So in a way, yes. RGIII was in there with some of the 2's... The offense looked totally diff when Colt got in there. That's not a coincidence.

THANK YOU, CLL.

I know we're hearing a lot about how the o-line didn't play well last night. Some of it true. The rookie got blown up on one of those sacks.

But man you can't deny that they look better when Griffin isn't in. One of McCoy's first passing attempts, he dropped back and a Lion rushed in completely unblocked. I'm watching thinking "oh man he's going to get killed like Griffin". Instead, McCoy dumps the ball off to his left in a split second to the TE, Hamm. He avoids the hit, Hamm breaks off a big run after the catch.

And this stuff about Gruden not calling the read option plays for Griffin is garbage. If you're paying attention, you can see he calls those plays at midfield or in the opponents' half of the field. Did Griffin move the team past our own 40???

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Just loved seeing McCoy show what he can do - we all know what a good back up QB Cousins is ... McCoy is a keeper as well

hopefully they let McCoy and Cousins play QB in the next game and rest Griffin - he took a beating tonight

Rest him for what?! LMFAO All the good QB play he's been giving us?

I really don't know what the heck SJ is talking about at this point. I appreciate the optimism and desire to be patient, but this is a nightmare.

Honestly man, I don't even care about which QB gives us the best chance to win at this point. I don't want to see Griffin out there, because he's going to get himself killed.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:the protection was horrid with will Smith and the Lions D came out with a fire (no Colt did NOT face the same pass rush) the play calling seemed to further ignite the pass rush with Rg in.

Defenses have absolutely no fear of RGIII throwing the ball on them or taking off on the run right now. That is what is "igniting the pass rush".

Everybody needs to take a look at this photo:



THREE open receivers and enough time to make a read and throw. Griffin takes off on the run. Drops the ball on the turf. Injured shoulder, concussion.

Come on.

riggofan wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:the protection was horrid with will Smith and the Lions D came out with a fire (no Colt did NOT face the same pass rush) the play calling seemed to further ignite the pass rush with Rg in.

Defenses have absolutely no fear of RGIII throwing the ball on them or taking off on the run right now. That is what is "igniting the pass rush".

Exactly. He's essentially a tackling dummy out there.

Another example is the "roughing the passer" penalty that Colt got... He got it because the ball is out quicker than with RGIII. That changed the entire tenor of the defense for the rest of the drive.

seems like some others saw the same thing I did ...

Robert Griffin III's night against the Detroit Lions couldn't have gone any worse, though Griffin deserves little blame for his woes.

these coaches should wake up and see what everyone else is seeing happening - just stop trying to do what's best for the team ...

leave Griffin in there and call plays that he needs to work on, behind an O line that clearly only blocks for Cousins and McCoy
this is going to get Griffin hurt and then he's going to cost us a bundle - sure, that's a good idea

Be nice to see the coaches just use the offensive linemen that need the work with Cousins as QB

SkinsJock wrote:leave Griffin in there and call plays that he needs to work on, behind an O line that clearly only blocks for Cousins and McCoy

Oh my god, man. Look at that screenshot I posted. The o-line's fault? The coaches' fault? The play calling?

You know I'm not remotely an RGIII hater. When the team announced he would be the starter in April and get him ready to play, etc; I understood the move and honestly I wanted nothing more than for him to go out there and prove everybody wrong. Right now I am seriously worried for him. Forget about the team, he is going to get himself killed out there.

This is the 2nd week in a row where he's elected to not throw to the open receiver but run it himself and take a hit. There will always be an excuse for RGIII because it's hard for people to part with 2012.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000513931/article/redskins-offensive-line-unacceptable-vs-lions

Other than the fact he fumbled there was nothing wrong with the 3rd and 16 play. It's third and friggin sixteen. Sure, he could dump it off for no gain if he wanted to. Ask yourself why it was 3rd and long all night in the first place. Although you're all going to say "Rg3 didn't get the ball out in time". But it's kinda hard to do that when you're not finished your drop and people are barely in their routes, and the backfield already looks like Attica. Bad protection can lead to int's that way (Cousins). Not to say Rg3 was great, he stunk, but anyone who thought he should have been able to do anything with that protection have no internal clock.

brad7686 wrote:Other than the fact he fumbled there was nothing wrong with the 3rd and 16 play. It's third and friggin sixteen. Sure, he could dump it off for no gain if he wanted to.

Isn't that kind of the point though? It was third and 16 in your own half. Did he look at the field and think he was going to take off and run up the middle for 16 yards? He had three receivers open underneath. I know he was under pressure so maybe all three of them weren't fully there for him, but at least one was. Dump off the pass for the short gain. Punt the ball and get better field position next time.

Its just one play, but its a painful example.

brad7686 wrote:Other than the fact he fumbled there was nothing wrong with the 3rd and 16 play.

Not dumping the ball off to your outlet (Chris Thompson) is the correct thing to do?

I understand the facts - what I do not get is, why the coaches are continuing to work with Griffin, are the other 2 QBs not practicing well?

Griffin should not be allowed to play again until he clearly shows the improvement he needed from what we saw last season

put Cousins and McCoy out there and when Griffin is clearly better at reading defense, then give him a shot, but not until that happens

Gruden has to know that his future is tied to showing improvement across the board here from coaching to playing

this is not a good indication of who is making decisions here

SkinsJock wrote:I understand the facts - what I do not get is, why the coaches are continuing to work with Griffin, are the other 2 QBs not practicing well?

Griffin should not be allowed to play again until he clearly shows the improvement he needed from what we saw last season

put Cousins and McCoy out there and when Griffin is clearly better at reading defense, then give him a shot, but not until that happens

Gruden has to know that his future is tied to showing improvement across the board here from coaching to playing

this is not a good indication of who is making decisions here

They could have avoided all this by having an open competition. I agree that Gruden has to salvage has career long-term and now allow Snyder to make him look worse than he makes himself look.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Other than the fact he fumbled there was nothing wrong with the 3rd and 16 play.

Not dumping the ball off to your outlet (Chris Thompson) is the correct thing to do?

Yeah, but you are all talking about how RG3 doesn't get the ball out, and you're using an example where he CHOSE not to throw the ball because it was 3rd and 16 and the receivers weren't going anywhere. He should have dumped it off, but that play doesn't really go towards the point you guys are making. The reason is that the O-line is mostly to blame. Even the media, who hate RG3, have acknowledged this.