Washington football community discussions spanning the Redskins to Commanders era. 20+ years of game analysis, player discussions, and fan perspectives.
https://the-hogs.net/messageboard/
SkinsJock wrote:I'm not buying that this franchise can realistically expect to be close to playing meaningful games this season ... maybe in 2016
PulpExposure wrote:I don't think Gruden did a great job last year at all. He actually looked overmatched in the job.
PulpExposure wrote:To be fair, you need to be patient with a new head coach and give him more than 2 years to see if he can grow into the role. Lots of head coaches had rough first years; Bill Parcells, for example, was 3-12-1 in his first year.
Countertrey wrote:Perception becomes reality. When you are in charge, always exude "we got this". There were far too many occasions when Jay was wearing "I ain't got a dayum clue".
riggofan wrote:DEHog wrote:As for taking 3 draft classes…The NFL didn’t make the Redskins dump contracts leading to a cap penalty or give up 4 picks for 1!
Neither did Jay Gruden.
DEHog wrote:riggofan wrote:DEHog wrote:As for taking 3 draft classes…The NFL didn’t make the Redskins dump contracts leading to a cap penalty or give up 4 picks for 1!
Neither did Jay Gruden.
Yes but he accepted it when he became the HC
riggofan wrote:I'm pretty sure we can play meaningful games this season. In fact, I can guarantee at least the first eight will be meaningful.SkinsJock wrote:I'm not buying that this franchise can realistically expect to be close to playing meaningful games this season ... maybe in 2016
lol. Give me a freaking break. That's complete bull****.
He accepted the job to turn this mess around just like Scot McGloughan did. Unless you want to argue that he took the job and claimed he could win the Super Bowl with the roster completely unchanged from what Shanahan left him.
Everybody knows the team is rebuilding, except for you apparently.
SkinsJock wrote:riggofan wrote:I'm pretty sure we can play meaningful games this season. In fact, I can guarantee at least the first eight will be meaningful.SkinsJock wrote:I'm not buying that this franchise can realistically expect to be close to playing meaningful games this season ... maybe in 2016
OK - the point that DEHog is pushing is that Jay's future is tied to the Redskins playing meaningful games in December - he feels that Jay should win enough games that mean they could make the playoffs if they win in December - that's BS
I think if Jay shows that he is a HC this season unlike last season when he certainly did not, he will be here
I think he could be gone no matter what the record is, if he does not show that he's a good HC
Jay's future here after this season has nothing to do with winning but how the players respond to his coaching on the field
we need more players than we can get in a few months
DEHog wrote:And in doing so he accepted those things. So you’re saying he knew nothing about the past?? Sorry but when you accept a HC job you accept the good, bad and ugly. Gruden knew exactly what he was getting into, if he didn’t than that’s on him. I never said he said that… but every coach thinks they can win.
P.S. that unchanged roster was only a year removed from winning the NFC East!! I guess it’s too much to ask that they be competitive??
riggofan wrote:DEHog wrote:And in doing so he accepted those things. So you’re saying he knew nothing about the past?? Sorry but when you accept a HC job you accept the good, bad and ugly. Gruden knew exactly what he was getting into, if he didn’t than that’s on him. I never said he said that… but every coach thinks they can win.
P.S. that unchanged roster was only a year removed from winning the NFC East!! I guess it’s too much to ask that they be competitive??
Of course Gruden knew about the team's past. That doesn't mean he is responsible for it. That doesn't mean he is responsible for the godawful roster he inherited or the fallout from capgate. It also doesn't mean he can magically transform that roster in a single season.
Your comments are either delusional (we won the NFC east! We were really good!) or willfully ignorant, so I'll just quit arguing them. I actually agree with your larger point that Gruden needs to show improvement this year. And I think the goal of seeing the team playing meaningful games in December is solid too.
DEHog wrote:Scot has said that the coaching staff is the HC responsibility. If you were a high profile veteran assistant whould you want to come to DC under a unproven HC??Its one thing if a rookie head coach is surrounded by a veteran coaching staff. Yet he chooses another rookie defensive coordinator? Why not opt for one of the former San Francisco defensive staff members who have ties to Scot M.? Would have been a perfect fit.
Prowl33 wrote:HEROHAMO wrote:Its obvious Scot M. knows what he is doing. Scot has already helped build two championship caliber teams San Fran and Seattle.
So far I love the moves he has made already as well.
I have full faith in Scot M. as our GM.
Gruden is a whole other story for me. Its his second year but I dont care. Its my team so I dont have time to give newbie coaches time to learn under the job. I want results now!
The sign of a good coach is does he get the most out of his team and coaches?
After last season I think we can all say that he definatley did not do that.
Also his choice on a defensive coordinator sure has me scratching my head.
Its one thing if a rookie head coach is surrounded by a veteran coaching staff. Yet he chooses another rookie defensive coordinator? Why not opt for one of the former San Francisco defensive staff members who have ties to Scot M.? Would have been a perfect fit. They have had a successful defense as well.
Also add in that he does not draft well either. Him and Bruce I cant recall them bringing in a Pro Bowl player either. So his talent evaluation is not good either. I know Bruce got lucky with a couple players while Mike was coach but that was probably mike S. picking the players.
We did not see any improvement last year. All we got last year from Gruden was more drama and a losing season. How does that give me any confidence in him.
Yes the Redskins were a big mess of a team already. So hiring a rookie head coach was probably not the best choice in the first place to fix the mess that is our team.
Back to hope. I am confident in Scot M. and his decisions. Ultimatley its Snyder then Scot. But I am so greatful that we have an actual good football mind in the building.
You got a lot of this very wrong.
First you cant expect results in the first year with a team on the level ours is on. In the first year, Gruden had to roll with a lot of the old coaching staff, and a large amount of players that didnt fit his plan offensively. This would be a multi year project I dont care if its Jay Gruden or Bill Belichek.
We actually were going to get a coach from the san fran defensive coaching staff, but vic fangio turned us down due to the drama that is the redskins.
Pretty sure Bruce was in charge of last years draft, and the scouting department that did all the research, has nothing at all to do with Jay.
Breeland may very well be a pro bowl calibre player, so wrong again.
Rookie head coach had some to do with it, but not much. Thing I like though is this year his vision is coming together, and the coaching matches the vision Scot has. Bigger stronger players win games. This year you can begin measuring.
HEROHAMO wrote:Another reason why I dont like the Gruden hire. The fact that he was a rookie I was willing to overlook had he shown us some improvement. I did not see any signifigant improvement. Did you?
HEROHAMO wrote:Dont even bring up Bill Bellicheck or any other veteran coach. They would have had a far better season had they been in charge last year.
riggofan wrote:HEROHAMO wrote:Dont even bring up Bill Bellicheck or any other veteran coach. They would have had a far better season had they been in charge last year.
Really?? You mean a veteran coach like Mike Shanahan?
HEROHAMO wrote:DEHog wrote:Scot has said that the coaching staff is the HC responsibility. If you were a high profile veteran assistant whould you want to come to DC under a unproven HC??Its one thing if a rookie head coach is surrounded by a veteran coaching staff. Yet he chooses another rookie defensive coordinator? Why not opt for one of the former San Francisco defensive staff members who have ties to Scot M.? Would have been a perfect fit.
Another reason why I dont like the Gruden hire. The fact that he was a rookie I was willing to overlook had he shown us some improvement. I did not see any signifigant improvement. Did you? Thats the bottom line brother we can go over all the small stuff. But its all about wins bro. Did we get to the playoffs? Did we even get a 500. season?
No! the results stunk. Thats all I care about. If he gives me some success with the headache and drama ill take it so long as we get the success.
riggofan wrote:HEROHAMO wrote:Another reason why I dont like the Gruden hire. The fact that he was a rookie I was willing to overlook had he shown us some improvement. I did not see any signifigant improvement. Did you?
Yeah. We lost twice to Dallas in 2013. We beat Dallas once in 2014. Improvement.
We were 3-13 in 2013. We were 4-12 in 2014. Improvement.
Before you say, "Big Deal. One game." Let me just point out in 2003 under Steve Spurrier the team was 5-11. Joe Gibbs came in 2004 and the team finished 6-10. One more game. Improvement.
Rookie coach. Hall of fame Coach. College coach. Completely unknown coach. Super bowl winning coach, Mike Shanahan. The results have been the same. People just don't seem to freaking get it. There isn't some Mystical Coach Big Johnson who is going to come in here in one year and "coach 'em up."
HEROHAMO wrote:Prowl33 wrote:HEROHAMO wrote:Its obvious Scot M. knows what he is doing. Scot has already helped build two championship caliber teams San Fran and Seattle.
So far I love the moves he has made already as well.
I have full faith in Scot M. as our GM.
Gruden is a whole other story for me. Its his second year but I dont care. Its my team so I dont have time to give newbie coaches time to learn under the job. I want results now!
The sign of a good coach is does he get the most out of his team and coaches?
After last season I think we can all say that he definatley did not do that.
Also his choice on a defensive coordinator sure has me scratching my head.
Its one thing if a rookie head coach is surrounded by a veteran coaching staff. Yet he chooses another rookie defensive coordinator? Why not opt for one of the former San Francisco defensive staff members who have ties to Scot M.? Would have been a perfect fit. They have had a successful defense as well.
Also add in that he does not draft well either. Him and Bruce I cant recall them bringing in a Pro Bowl player either. So his talent evaluation is not good either. I know Bruce got lucky with a couple players while Mike was coach but that was probably mike S. picking the players.
We did not see any improvement last year. All we got last year from Gruden was more drama and a losing season. How does that give me any confidence in him.
Yes the Redskins were a big mess of a team already. So hiring a rookie head coach was probably not the best choice in the first place to fix the mess that is our team.
Back to hope. I am confident in Scot M. and his decisions. Ultimatley its Snyder then Scot. But I am so greatful that we have an actual good football mind in the building.
You got a lot of this very wrong.
First you cant expect results in the first year with a team on the level ours is on. In the first year, Gruden had to roll with a lot of the old coaching staff, and a large amount of players that didnt fit his plan offensively. This would be a multi year project I dont care if its Jay Gruden or Bill Belichek.
We actually were going to get a coach from the san fran defensive coaching staff, but vic fangio turned us down due to the drama that is the redskins.
Pretty sure Bruce was in charge of last years draft, and the scouting department that did all the research, has nothing at all to do with Jay.
Breeland may very well be a pro bowl calibre player, so wrong again.
Rookie head coach had some to do with it, but not much. Thing I like though is this year his vision is coming together, and the coaching matches the vision Scot has. Bigger stronger players win games. This year you can begin measuring.
No I dont have it wrong. I demand results playoffs every year. Thats what I want and I want to see it happen. The decade plus of futility under Snyder has weakened most Skins fans expectations. I understand fully. But for me I will always expect playoffs and a run to the SuperBowl.
Scot M. is showing us in just a lil over a month how fast he can turn things around. In such little time Scot has already signed four new players. Talented ones at that. So much turnover with one hire. One good GM and look how fast he has made moves.
Dont even bring up Bill Bellicheck or any other veteran coach. They would have had a far better season had they been in charge last year. You can already see how Scot is making moves. A brilliant football mind makes a huge difference.
One huge issue I have with Gruden. How does he come in first year and undermines the franchise player. Thats one way to screw things up. Its clear Gruden does not believe in Griffin. So how can he empower Griffin if he himself truly does not believe in Robert? Gruden will only half heartedly try to help Griffin if in his heart of hearts does not believe in him. Its also up to Robert as well but its tru
Starting QB and head coach relationship must be a healthy one. Its going to be very difficult to have success without having a smooth relationship between our starting QB and head coach. Its a must.
Walsh, Montana, Schula, Marino, Dungy, Manning, Holmgren, Farve, Bellicheck and Brady. Its clear Gruden and Griffin do not like each other. Something has to give.
DEHog wrote:So now we are comparing Gruden to Gibbs? Do you really think anyone in the organization was celebrating “improvement” after a 4-12 year? I agree we you that Gruden needs to be given time, I’m just worried that they won’t give it to him.
HEROHAMO wrote:riggofan wrote:HEROHAMO wrote:Dont even bring up Bill Bellicheck or any other veteran coach. They would have had a far better season had they been in charge last year.
Really?? You mean a veteran coach like Mike Shanahan?
Yes the same Mike Shanahan who took us to the playoffs and won the NFC East in Roberts rookie year.
SkinsJock wrote:I'll be very surprised if these guys can have this franchise competing for a playoff spot this season - that's what "playing meaningful games in December means - are you kidding me ... good luck with that - this franchise will take more than 1 season to get better and I doubt that this HC is going to be here in 2016 so the whole process has to start again - I do think we'll see progress but it's going to take time
I hope that Jay Gruden can do a lot better job than last season because he did not look at all like a HC IMO
I'm done here - Jay Gruden will likely lose his job because he's not a good HC not because of our wins and losses
SkinsJock wrote:I'll be very surprised if these guys can have this franchise competing for a playoff spot this season - that's what "playing meaningful games in December means