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Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:45 pm
by riggofan
emoses14 wrote:While I've read comments on here suggesting that it was Dan/Allen who "forced" Mike to get RGIII, the contract in place at the time simply doesn't support that conclusion (unless there is some verifiable proof other than "Well it's Dan Snyder, so it's his fault").
My only point is a mountain of f-ups can be laid at Snyder's feet. And if you take the position that it is his team so it all should be laid there, fine, with that I won't argue. BUT, to act like (for example) MIke Shanahan was usurped or minimized or is the innocent victim in that fiasco is mind boggling. At a certain point, it becomes lazy and easy to simply blame Dan Snyder for EVERY DAMN THING that goes wrong.
You're so on point with this. Shanahan is a Super Bowl winning coach who basically came in here with a mandate to turn this team around. I refuse to buy that he was forced to take McNabb or forced to trade all of those picks for RGIII. There's a very simple remedy for that type of stuff. You get on the phone to your buddy Adam Schefter and leak that Dan Snyder is being a douche and wants you to trade away multiple first round picks for a player you don't believe in.
That's what he did when he wanted out of DC. No reason to think he wouldn't/couldn't have done the same thing if he was really having his hand forced with these players.
Even after this past year, I'm not entirely sure what people are blaming Snyder for exactly. Interfering? Its possible I guess, but none of us know to what extent. Was he calling Gruden telling him what QBs to play? Maybe I guess. Was he submitting draft grades on Morgan Moses or something? I don't know, kinda doubt it. Too much input in selecting the coach? That's very possible. I don't doubt he liked the Gruden name brand.
He's clearly guilty of not running a proper front office and not having the best people in place.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:38 pm
by TrueRedskin11
I think people need to chill out over the Dan Snyder deal. He is not going anywhere. Him hiring a G.M. in Scott is the right move and I think the man wants to win bad enough that he will let him do his job. People are wrongly mistaken to believe that there is owner in the NFL who does not try have input in some of the team's decisions.`Some owners, less than others, say Robert Craft, who people want to keep bringing up, but to think that he just sits back and does not put any say so into the decisions that are made is off base. He may let the G.M and coach do most of the decisions but there are times that he steps in. So I do think that he will let Scott do his job, but of course there are going to be times when he puts his input in.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:05 pm
by SkinsJock
Too much is being made of what has happened - all that matters is what happens here going forward - this is really simple ...
The Redskins need to have a GM whose job is to hire and fire the players and coaches just like other GMs
Bruce Allen needs to be moved into the role he's best suited for and that is dealing with the contracts and the agents
Dan Snyder needs to hire FO people only and then let them do their jobs without interference in any way
it's possible that this can come to reality ...
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:14 pm
by markshark84
emoses14 wrote:DEHog wrote:Didn't Shanny have "total" control...like other I'll remain cautiously optimistic IF the deal gets done.
This is exactly what I mean. Are we now taking the position that Shanahan did NOT have total control somehow? I remember his contract and the articles about it when he signed it being over the top clear about who was in charge.
While I've read comments on here suggesting that it was Dan/Allen who "forced" Mike to get RGIII, the contract in place at the time simply doesn't support that conclusion (unless there is some verifiable proof other than "Well it's Dan Snyder, so it's his fault").
At a certain point, it becomes lazy and easy to simply blame Dan Snyder for EVERY DAMN THING that goes wrong.
IF he's really hiring a GM, that by itself should be applauded (especially taking into account how crappy he's been the last 20 years). At the same time, if at some point in the future (like more than 2-3 years from now), it turns out to not work out, we shouldn't retroactively blame it on Snyder for not relinquishing "total control"
First comment: I think most have realized the reason Shanny left was because he was offered something he ended up not actually receiving. This happens quite often in new jobs --- and includes football ones. After the hire, Danny boy then issued a number of press releases and leaked information to the press that Shanny was going to have full control pursuant to his contract ---- but in reality NO ONE saw his contract and Danny was desperate to win back his fan base after the Vinny era. I hope everyone understands that Danny boy will say anything to keep the fanbase --- him actually doing it is another story completely. History has supported this. IMHO -- the reason Shanny benched RGIII and started Cousins was an "F-you" to Danny because of his lack of control during the draft -- but that is all speculation.
Second comment: Did you see the contract? Did anyone really see the contract? And for that matters, Contracts are a tricky thing. I can tell you now that employment contracts do have a section on what the employee will be doing, but that really isn't enforceable. Danny is the owner; he can do what he wants. I am sure the "damages" clause of the contract was the amount of his contract, which was $25M ($5M for 5 years), I beleive. The fact there is a contract means VERY VERY little. A contract can't prevent Danny boy, as the owner, from doing whatever he wants, as long as it is not illegal. And Danny boy has a history of being a little "creative" when it comes to contracts.......
Third comment: We have to remember that Danny boy is the OWNER. He is in charge of literally EVERYTHING. When a company underperforms, they don't say "well, Bill over in marketing was the reason our stock price went down $8 per share..." In that case Danny would fire Bill -- like he has done to HUNDREDS of redskins employees --- but the difference is that after all the firings and nearly 2 decades, redskins "stock" is still at an all time low..... Danny boy is in a unique position, unlike anyone else within the franchise --- he has total control over everything and the ability to change anything he doesn't like (contract or no contract). Yes, it is very easy to blame Danny for everything ---- and ironically also correct.
Fourth comment: First, in my work (and generally in the real world), I applaud people when they do things above and beyond; not for doing stuff they should be doing in the first place. All teams should have a GM. The fact Danny may do something that is within the norm of franchise management shouldn't be "applauded". Danny should be held to the average owner standard, not the Danny failure-based standard we have become used to. And while I agree that if it doesn't work out we shouldn't knee-jerk blame Danny --- I do believe, based on his extensive history of sticking his bitchy little face into football affairs --- that the onus is on him to prove differently.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:20 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
riggofan wrote:cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:tribeofjudah wrote:Bye Bye............RG3...?
stay tuned folks..!!!
Really? His past two rosters utilize mobile qbs, and there isnt a ton of other options out there for us is there? Vic, buttfumblee, or Rex Cutler.. eeeew..
So, I dont see why anyone would come to this conclusion- sorry to single you out im just saying in general.
I agree. I don't know if the new GM prefers mobile QBs or not, but I don't believe Griffin is going anywhere immediately. RGIII's rookie contract is still very affordable. Unless there are SERIOUS problems between him and Gruden, what do we have to lose by allowing him to compete for the starting job or be the backup?
Personally I'd take Cutler over any of the QBs on our roster currently, but I wouldn't trade anything for him or offer any kind of outlandish contract.
Obviously my man crush on RGThreesus and holdig out for hope of a Luck/Wilson type of hybrid has my goggles fogged....
BUT, dont we already have a Rex Cutler in Kirk GrossMan for cheaper? Id be pretty bummed if we signed a qb who got benched with an even BETTER wr core and top tier TE
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:34 pm
by riggofan
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Obviously my man crush on RGThreesus and holdig out for hope of a Luck/Wilson type of hybrid has my goggles fogged....BUT, dont we already have a Rex Cutler in Kirk GrossMan for cheaper? Id be pretty bummed if we signed a qb who got benched with an even BETTER wr core and top tier TE
Maybe, and I'll completely admit I didn't follow the Bears closely enough this past year to know all that went down with him. It was obviously a horrendous year that led to his benching, coach and GM getting fired. The guy is 31 years old and has been starting in the league for nine years though. Probably says more about how confident I am in the current group of QBs on our roster.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:44 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
^highestbpaid qb in the league with one of the best wr cores if not THE best... benched. Not very good
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:51 pm
by DarthMonk
Mike Jones and Mark Maske on January 7 at 1:40 PM wrote:The Washington Redskins have finalized a deal that will bring well-respected talent evaluator Scot McCloughan aboard as general manager, according to two people with knowledge of the situation.
McCloughan has agreed to a four-year deal, one person familiar with the negotiations said.
The move signals a front-office restructure that strips Bruce Allen of top talent-evaluation duties and gives them to McCloughan, who brings with him 20 years of experience as a scout and front-office executive and most recently helped shape the Seattle Seahawks into a Super Bowl-winning team.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:00 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
NFL app reporting its official- thank god we didnt f it up!
Washington Redskins make Scot McCloughan GM
Conor Orr
Around The NFL Writer
Washington has taken a progressive step forward in upgrading their personnel department.
Scot McCloughan and the Redskins finalized the deal Wednesday to make him the team's new general manager, per NFL Media's Albert Breer. The former 49ers general manager and Seahawks personnel executive will report to team president Bruce Allen and will have final say over 53-man roster.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:02 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
DarthMonk wrote:Mike Jones and Mark Maske on January 7 at 1:40 PM wrote:The Washington Redskins have finalized a deal that will bring well-respected talent evaluator Scot McCloughan aboard as general manager, according to two people with knowledge of the situation.
McCloughan has agreed to a four-year deal, one person familiar with the negotiations said.
The move signals a front-office restructure that strips Bruce Allen of top talent-evaluation duties and gives them to McCloughan, who brings with him 20 years of experience as a scout and front-office executive and most recently helped shape the Seattle Seahawks into a Super Bowl-winning team.
Scooped!
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:08 pm
by SkinsJock
Great to hear we got him but I'm not sure who has the final say on hires and fires if he's 'reporting' to Bruce Allen (& Dan Snyder)
we'll soon find out ... we have sources
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:11 pm
by DEHog
Sheffty said only reason he was availible was because of personal issues...
Interesting quote...
McCloughan says he is a healthy one-beer guy on his farm in Ferndale, Wash. But how will he react to the pressure that comes with being a GM again while working for a notoriously difficult owner with a history of overriding general managers and who likes to share Tuscan wine and Crown Royal with members of the front office?
Hope this is a non-issue!!
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:18 pm
by emoses14
DEHog wrote:Sheffty said only reason he was availible was because of personal issues...
Interesting quote...
McCloughan says he is a healthy one-beer guy on his farm in Ferndale, Wash. But how will he react to the pressure that comes with being a GM again while working for a notoriously difficult owner with a history of overriding general managers and who likes to share Tuscan wine and Crown Royal with members of the front office?
Hope this is a non-issue!!
Yeah. I don't have experience with addiction, but this concept of a I can control my drinking absent abstaining is certainly different from what I believed was the typical method. I hope it isn't an issue for him, first, then for us, second.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:02 pm
by riggofan
SkinsJock wrote:Great to hear we got him but I'm not sure who has the final say on hires and fires if he's 'reporting' to Bruce Allen (& Dan Snyder)
we'll soon find out ... we have sources
I'm pretty sure every GM in the league "reports" to the owner.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:08 pm
by riggofan
emoses14 wrote:DEHog wrote:Sheffty said only reason he was availible was because of personal issues...
Interesting quote...
McCloughan says he is a healthy one-beer guy on his farm in Ferndale, Wash. But how will he react to the pressure that comes with being a GM again while working for a notoriously difficult owner with a history of overriding general managers and who likes to share Tuscan wine and Crown Royal with members of the front office?
Hope this is a non-issue!!
Yeah. I don't have experience with addiction, but this concept of a I can control my drinking absent abstaining is certainly different from what I believed was the typical method. I hope it isn't an issue for him, first, then for us, second.
Interesting about the beer. There are definitely guys out there like that though who just can't handle hard liquor for whatever reason, but have no problem with beer.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:39 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
Redskins Dismiss Head Strength & Conditioning Coach Ray Wright
Already dropping the ax!
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:42 pm
by SkinsJock
DEHog wrote:Wow didn't think he would be able to do it this year... But Snyder has fired up the fan base yet again!!
I'll reserve my judgement...
a good PR move IMO - it would be a great hire if this guy is actually making the decisions on coaches and players ...
but, I have a feeling he's just a means to an end here .... once again, Snyder offers hope to the masses
fans can 'clarify' it all they want - fact is if Snyder meddles we have no chance - and please don't try and sugarcoat it or analyze what that actually means - it's simple "Dan Snyder needs to stop meddling with this franchise" - that is the only way out of this mess
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:44 pm
by DEHog
SkinsJock wrote:DEHog wrote:Wow didn't think he would be able to do it this year... But Snyder has fired up the fan base yet again!!
I'll reserve my judgement...
a good PR move IMO - it would be a great hire if this guy is actually making the decisions on coaches and players ...
but, I have a feeling he's just a means to an end here .... once again, Snyder offers hope to the masses
fans can 'clarify' it all they want - fact is if Snyder meddles we have no chance - and please don't try and sugarcoat it or analyze what that actually means - it's simple "Dan Snyder needs to stop meddling with this franchise" - that is the only way out of this mess
100% Agree!!
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:06 pm
by riggofan
SkinsJock wrote:fans can 'clarify' it all they want - fact is if Snyder meddles we have no chance - and please don't try and sugarcoat it or analyze what that actually means - it's simple "Dan Snyder needs to stop meddling with this franchise" - that is the only way out of this mess
Weird. It gets more insightful every time he types this.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:17 pm
by tribeofjudah
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Redskins Dismiss Head Strength & Conditioning Coach Ray Wright
Already dropping the ax!
yaay....nothing against him, but we NEED NEW BLOOD all around. They should hire HULK HOGAN now...lol
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:20 pm
by tribeofjudah
The Official Skins site is crap: always a day late and a dollar short for news reporting.
I guess it's not really for "late breaking" news.........
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:25 pm
by riggofan
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Redskins Dismiss Head Strength & Conditioning Coach Ray Wright
Already dropping the ax!
I hate to say it, but its been clear for a long time that Coach Wright has been holding this team back. He's been completely out coached in his strength and conditioning routines all year. Probably not helped by the fact that Snyder was interfering and meddling.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:26 pm
by riggofan
tribeofjudah wrote:The Official Skins site is crap: always a day late and a dollar short for news reporting.
I guess it's not really for "late breaking" news.........
lol. I can't remember the last time I visited that site. Would you trust anything you read there?
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:31 pm
by emoses14
riggofan wrote:cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Redskins Dismiss Head Strength & Conditioning Coach Ray Wright
Already dropping the ax!
I hate to say it, but its been clear for a long time that Coach Wright has been holding this team back. He's been completely out coached in his strength and conditioning routines all year. Probably not helped by the fact that Snyder was interfering and meddling.
I see what you're doing. That isn't very nice.
Very funny
, though.
Re: Scot McCloughan named new GM
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:33 pm
by Irn-Bru
welch wrote:(In my imagination, Joe Gibbs watched the last game and told Snyder, "You need someone like Bobby Beathard to run the football operation".)
I want to believe this, too. Seeing him sitting next to Snyder as one of the worst Redskins' outings in years unfolded . . . it makes you wonder.