The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

markshark84 wrote:I don't think they forget how to coach --- I think it is an organizational issue that starts from the owner down. It also has a TON to do with the players we have on the team.
--> You can't win without a QB --- we don't have a QB.
--> You can't win with a decent DEF --- we don't have a good DEF.
--> You can't win without foundational draft picks --- we never have draft picks.
--> You can't win without commitments to OL and DL --- we never have good OL or DLs.
--> You can't win without a firm commitment/support from management --- Danny boy is extraordinarly impatient with HCs and has allowed butt kissing FO figures to push blame on the HCs and not to the people at the root of the issue; those in charge of bringing in talent.
--> You can't win without shared vision --- It is clear Danny boy's ego doesn't permit him to see alternatives outside of his own personal opinions.g what he was wor

All true. I'll be honest though, this is basically the same situation that Shanahan walked into a couple years ago. I really expected that what would happen is Shanahan would do the dirty of work of fixing these fundamental issues, not win a lot of games, get fired and the next coach would get to benefit from what he had done. That hasn't played out all. Partially because of the salary cap penalty and probably because of the RGIII trade as well. (There were a few other issues in there. Changing to the 3-4. This ZBS o-line he left.)

Its just such a huge bummer, because I don't see many bright spots. Its hard to see things getting better anytime soon.

Im seeing a couple articles about Gruden in talks with Michigan to be there new head coach. Has anyone heard anything about this?

Skins Fan in Indy wrote:Im seeing a couple articles about Gruden in talks with Michigan to be there new head coach. Has anyone heard anything about this?

I saw that too but the sources were all terrible. Fan blogs.

Thats what I was thinking but just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

Skins Fan in Indy wrote:Thats what I was thinking but just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

It definitely had me scratching my head! hah. Stupid rumor. I couldn't really figure out why they believed Michigan would be interested in Gruden either.

Gruden has been waiting for his NFL chance as a HC. He won't go back to college level play.

Since a lot of fans have been masked as if RG3 is the main problem, Gruden is now on the clock!! Let us see if we see an improvement in his coaching this year.

mastdark81 wrote:Since a lot of fans have been masked as if RG3 is the main problem, Gruden is now on the clock!! Let us see if we see an improvement in his coaching this year.

I'm not convinced the team has enough talent for the head coach to be "on the clock" but if there has to be a scapegoat Jay Gruden will be it. Gruden never had the luxury of choosing his own quarterback. I think they owe him that much before they write him off as unsuccessful seeing as how he played the cards he was dealt as a condition of accepting the job. The whole revolving door coaching carousel hasn't exactly resulted in success either. Unless there's a proven head coach who actually wants the job (Are you absolutely sure you're retired, Joe?) we could do marginally better or a lot worse changing coaches yet again. I'm a firm believer in consistency. Same coaching staff, same schemes for more than one or two seasons. If ownership and management can't buy into a system for the long haul why should the players?

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:we could do marginally better or a lot worse changing coaches yet again

I'm not sure we could get a lot worse. There's not a lot of room to get worse. We've won 7 games in two years.

mastdark81 wrote:Since a lot of fans have been masked as if RG3 is the main problem, Gruden is now on the clock!! Let us see if we see an improvement in his coaching this year.

This is something I have thought about. What are the expectations of Gruden and what would be considered "improvement"? Is it a win number having to be met or surpassed? Last year we won 4. Would we consider 5-11 an improvement? Technically it is, but I don't think most would see it that way.

I only see 3 games on the schedule that I would be surprised if we lost. There are some I think we can win, but that is something totally different than an expectation of winning.

I am honestly curious what people would considered as "improvement" when looking at the season as a whole. I think most answers I'd get are the typical subjective "show progression, take on a leadership role, have players get behind him, create cohesion, better production as season progresses, etc." --- but if we end up going 6-10 fans won't consider those good enough. This game is about Ws and Ls. Nothing more, nothing less. Winning is what creates cohesion, respect, solidarity, and all that jazz. At least that is my personal experience.

Winning is what creates "progression" --- so for me, it is about getting to 7 wins and developing Kirk as a consistent starter (since Gruden is a QB coach at heart). If there is one thing I believe, it is that Gruden can develop QBs. Look at Dalton's stats with and without Gruden. How he is as a HC, that is yet to be determined.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

mastdark81 wrote:Since a lot of fans have been masked as if RG3 is the main problem, Gruden is now on the clock!! Let us see if we see an improvement in his coaching this year.

I'm not convinced the team has enough talent for the head coach to be "on the clock" but if there has to be a scapegoat Jay Gruden will be it. Gruden never had the luxury of choosing his own quarterback. I think they owe him that much before they write him off as unsuccessful seeing as how he played the cards he was dealt as a condition of accepting the job. The whole revolving door coaching carousel hasn't exactly resulted in success either. Unless there's a proven head coach who actually wants the job (Are you absolutely sure you're retired, Joe?) we could do marginally better or a lot worse changing coaches yet again. I'm a firm believer in consistency. Same coaching staff, same schemes for more than one or two seasons. If ownership and management can't buy into a system for the long haul why should the players?

Right on man. This year to me is basically year one for Gruden. He would need to be epically bad to be talking about changing coaches. I agree with mastdark though that he is officially on the clock now. I'm not going to be calling for his head every time David Amerson gets beat. But I do think we should expect more this season. I'd like to see better special teams play and fewer penalties. He made the QB decision, so that needs to look better. He also chose Joe Barry, so the overall performance of the defense should reflect on him. There can't be week after week of blowout losses either. We need to look prepared.

I disagree with mastdark that fans think RG3 has been "the main problem". At least on this website, I think fans realize we have a lot of problems and RG3 is just one one. He hasn't been helping the situation getting sacked 1 out of every 10 times he drops back to pass.

markshark84 wrote:Winning is what creates "progression" --- so for me, it is about getting to 7 wins and developing Kirk as a consistent starter (since Gruden is a QB coach at heart). If there is one thing I believe, it is that Gruden can develop QBs. Look at Dalton's stats with and without Gruden. How he is as a HC, that is yet to be determined.

Its more than just winning. We won more games last year than in 2013 but the team was still a mess.

I'll be OK with five or six wins this season if we just look more competitive. Close games that we're in for four quarters. Win a couple games that we shouldn't.

We need to start passing the eyeball test.

Good point on Dalton btw. If JG can get Cousins at least playing up to the level of Andy Dalton, we might be in business.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote: I'm not convinced the team has enough talent for the head coach to be "on the clock" but if there has to be a scapegoat Jay Gruden will be it.

This is one of the BIGGEST problems I have with this franchise. Everyone is so quick to point fingers and say who is to blame. It starts with the owner and has trickled down even to the fans (which I think is because everyone is so frustrated with our inability to be successful).

Accountability has NEVER been a respected virtue in Redskins nation.

riggofan wrote:
Good point on Dalton btw. If JG can get Cousins at least playing up to the level of Andy Dalton, we might be in business.

I've always been a Dalton fan. I considered him the best QB in the 2011 draft (and have the posts on here to prove it).

I was depressed when Cincy drafted him a couple spots before we did (same feeling when Rogers was drafted 1 spot before we ended up with Jason Campbell). I recall hoping we'd trade up when he dropped passed the 30th overall mark and grab him using our early 2nd and 4th, but that never happened.

riggofan wrote:I disagree with mastdark that fans think RG3 has been "the main problem". At least on this website, I think fans realize we have a lot of problems and RG3 is just one one. He hasn't been helping the situation getting sacked 1 out of every 10 times he drops back to pass.

RG3 inarguably has been a problem, but he's just one of many. For example, Gruden runs a WCO, and it's been known that's his offense. When he was hired, it was clear to anyone (except RG3 and his dad, apparently) that RG3 is not a polished pocket QB, and is a total misfit for the WCO. Hiring a guy who is known to run the WCO is really just setting that guy up for failure (thanks, Danny). But also trying to pound a round peg into a square hole just exacerbates that situation (thanks, Jay Gruden), and publicly exposing your QBs flaws is bush league.

Mess.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I'm not convinced the team has enough talent for the head coach to be "on the clock" but if there has to be a scapegoat Jay Gruden will be it. Gruden never had the luxury of choosing his own quarterback. I think they owe him that much before they write him off as unsuccessful seeing as how he played the cards he was dealt as a condition of accepting the job. The whole revolving door coaching carousel hasn't exactly resulted in success either. Unless there's a proven head coach who actually wants the job (Are you absolutely sure you're retired, Joe?) we could do marginally better or a lot worse changing coaches yet again. I'm a firm believer in consistency. Same coaching staff, same schemes for more than one or two seasons. If ownership and management can't buy into a system for the long haul why should the players?

Right on man. This year to me is basically year one for Gruden. He would need to be epically bad to be talking about changing coaches. I agree with mastdark though that he is officially on the clock now. I'm not going to be calling for his head every time David Amerson gets beat. But I do think we should expect more this season. I'd like to see better special teams play and fewer penalties. He made the QB decision, so that needs to look better. He also chose Joe Barry, so the overall performance of the defense should reflect on him. There can't be week after week of blowout losses either. We need to look prepared.

I disagree with mastdark that fans think RG3 has been "the main problem". At least on this website, I think fans realize we have a lot of problems and RG3 is just one one. He hasn't been helping the situation getting sacked 1 out of every 10 times he drops back to pass.

I agree with you both - we just need to see improvement - it wasn't all on RG3 but Gruden needs more out of Cousins

SkinsJock wrote:I agree with you both - we just need to see improvement - it wasn't all on RG3 but Gruden needs more out of Cousins

100% brother.

riggofan wrote:
I disagree with mastdark that fans think RG3 has been "the main problem".

Yeah. The MAIN problem is and always has been Dan Snyder.

markshark84 wrote:

riggofan wrote:
Good point on Dalton btw. If JG can get Cousins at least playing up to the level of Andy Dalton, we might be in business.

I've always been a Dalton fan. I considered him the best QB in the 2011 draft (and have the posts on here to prove it).

I was depressed when Cincy drafted him a couple spots before we did (same feeling when Rogers was drafted 1 spot before we ended up with Jason Campbell). I recall hoping we'd trade up when he dropped passed the 30th overall mark and grab him using our early 2nd and 4th, but that never happened.

Andy isn't much, if any, better then the guys we have imo. His int rate when throwing to his top receiver (Green) is the highest int rate of any qb wr duo in the league

markshark84 wrote:

riggofan wrote:
I disagree with mastdark that fans think RG3 has been "the main problem".

Yeah. The MAIN problem is and always has been Dan Snyder.

I don't see how fans are still pointing fingers at Dan, when he's seemingly done everything we wanted him to do. Hire a gm. Hire a president. Stfu.. stay out of the way.

How has he made the team any worse from last year to now?

Snyder fired Marty who was doing a great job so anything is possible with an owner like Snyder but in my view Gruden is just starting out and modest improvement should get him a 3rd year.

I agree this organization is way too quick to point a finger and make a major change. Firing and hiring coaches all the time just sets the organization back years.

I'd like to see the Redskins become an organization like the Steelers or Bengals...stay with Gruden, give him the guys that will allow him to succeed and live with occasional bad times.

I believe it depends on whether Scot likes, or can live with, Gruden. That relationship is most important.

I'm way beyond the RGIII saga. Trade him away and let's move on.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I don't see how fans are still pointing fingers at Dan, when he's seemingly done everything we wanted him to do. Hire a gm. Hire a president. Stfu.. stay out of the way.

How can you claim he's out of the way when he's telling the coach which QB is going to be the starter?

We need to quit believing every press release that comes out of Redskins Park and judge this team by their actions. From what you wrote above, I'd say he's been at about 2 of 3.

Something is going on here and there is no way that Dan Snyder has put the franchise in the hands of his HC and FO ... not completely

This latest 'arrangement' where we saw Griffin replaced by Cousins indicates that Snyder is letting the FO and HC know "OK do your thing, put the product on the field and show me what you've got" - Gruden gets the QB that he, and some others, feel is best suited for the offense and he has his coaches in place to make things work and prove that he's a capable HC - he does not need to do much; this franchise is not only coming off a bad couple of seasons, the personnel on the field needs a huge overhaul - HOWEVER, he must show improvement


Dan Snyder is not going to stand by and let these guys mess this up - they had better show something or this could get ugly

Gruden made the call on Cousins for Griffin (not Scot OR Bruce/Dan) - his job is on the line here

SkinsJock wrote:Something is going on here and there is no way that Dan Snyder has put the franchise in the hands of his HC and FO ... not completely

Yeah until we see evidence otherwise, I'm in agreement with you man.