The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

McCoy may or may not be a savior (IMO, he's not), but you risk losing the entire locker room if you continue to play and lose with Griffin. The other guys aren't worried about "evaluating" Griffin. They want to win now.

StorminMormon86 wrote:McCoy may or may not be a savior (IMO, he's not), but you risk losing the entire locker room if you continue to play and lose with Griffin. The other guys aren't worried about "evaluating" Griffin. They want to win now.

This is probably true. I would also add they are aware of more than you are giving them credit for. I can't believe these guys do not see things the way many of us do. It is common sense.

Look Stormin, you suffer from the same thing I do impatience.

Sometimes that shows a sense of urgency, but many other times as I have figured out, you learn less this way.

I wouldn't worry about losing the locker room. This locker will get cleaned out.

Gruden is making the decisions on who to play and he decided to put Robert back in based on what he was seeing in practice and he felt that he was the best QB available - Robert had 2 really bad games - the Bucs game was possibly his worst game in the NFL

Gruden made it clear last week that Robert had to play better - he did not play terribly but it might not have been enough

If Gruden keeps Robert in there this week it's simply because he feels that Robert is better

Gruden's decisions about which QB starts are only based on which QB gives him the best chance to win the game


good luck with all that other BS or which QB the media or other players want

Kilmer72 wrote:Look Stormin, you suffer from the same thing I do impatience.

Sometimes that shows a sense of urgency, but many other times as I have figured out, you learn less this way.

I wouldn't worry about losing the locker room. This locker will get cleaned out.

Probably so. But there's still a lot of guys who are going to be retained going into next year. Gruden isn't stupid. This is his first head coaching job and I'm sure he's not going to want to screw it up.

There is no impatience anymore with Griffin. He's had 3 years now and looks worse than Campbell and Ramsey.

No Gruden isn't stupid or at least I hope not. That is one reason I leave it in their hands and the other is because I can't do anything about it but complain.

Kilmer72 wrote:No Gruden isn't stupid or at least I hope not. That is one reason I leave it in their hands and the other is because I can't do anything about it but complain.

Yeah which is why it's frustrating. Like you, I hope Gruden isn't stupid. But the more he takes Griffin to task in the media, and the more that "reports" come out from "sources" saying he was never high on him in the first place, the more idiotic he looks for continuing to start him. We'll find out a definitive answer at 3:00 today.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:No Gruden isn't stupid or at least I hope not. That is one reason I leave it in their hands and the other is because I can't do anything about it but complain.

Yeah which is why it's frustrating. Like you, I hope Gruden isn't stupid. But the more he takes Griffin to task in the media, and the more that "reports" come out from "sources" saying he was never high on him in the first place, the more idiotic he looks for continuing to start him. We'll find out a definitive answer at 3:00 today.

Lol...Probably not. Look these guys are managers.

Kilmer72 wrote:Look Stormin, you suffer from the same thing I do impatience.

He's got a wicked case of it.

How many games has Griffin played for Gruden? Four??? Its not like we've got the playoffs riding on our QB at this point. I personally think it looks like RGIII is just done, but if Gruden wants to give him a few more games this season to evaluate then so be it.

riggofan wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:Look Stormin, you suffer from the same thing I do impatience.

He's got a wicked case of it.

How many games has Griffin played for Gruden? Four??? Its not like we've got the playoffs riding on our QB at this point. I personally think it looks like RGIII is just done, but if Gruden wants to give him a few more games this season to evaluate then so be it.

Maybe and I thin the Coach is going about things in the right way. I would have been disappointed and in doubt any other way.

Gruden says today on a phone conference with reporters that he has "every intent" of starting Griffin against Indy. Goes on to say "as of right now" he gives the team the best chance to win. Then went on to say how his opinion may change come Wednesday. John Keim (ESPN guy for Skins) says he was confused and wouldn't be surprised with anything regarding who's starting. Seems like Gruden started off with an endorsement and then totally went vague about it. Now I'm confused too.

riggofan wrote:He's got a wicked case of it.

How many games has Griffin played for Gruden? Four??? Its not like we've got the playoffs riding on our QB at this point. I personally think it looks like RGIII is just done, but if Gruden wants to give him a few more games this season to evaluate then so be it.

I don't care if it's a wicked case of impatience or not. It doesn't matter what "system" Griffin is playing in, he's still not showing any sort of improvement from 2013, even at the most rudimentary levels. He's shown zero pocket awareness and confidence and IMO, has regressed from last year. What more do we need to see? The poor guy looks worse than Patrick Ramsey at this point. Call it shell-shocked, fear of getting injured again, whatever you want...the guy just isn't the same anymore. 5 games is not going to change that.

This is where you and I will disagree big time. How many people including yourself said Kyle wasn't a very good OC? I said he was and he put in place an offense that would show case Roberts talents much like his previous coach. It must be hard to come up with a game plan like Kyle could. I like Gruden very much and I think he will be a good at getting this offense in order even if it means getting rid of Robert. He just can't or wont coach that style ball. So that means Robert changes or he is done. Kyle was so good others tried to mimic him. Look at his success now.

Kilmer72 wrote:This is where you and I will disagree big time. How many people including yourself said Kyle wasn't a very good OC? I said he was and he put in place an offense that would show case Roberts talents much like his previous coach. It must be hard to come up with a game plan like Kyle could. I like Gruden very much and I think he will be a good at getting this offense in order even if it means getting rid of Robert. He just can't or wont coach that style ball. So that means Robert changes or he is done. Kyle was so good others tried to mimic him. Look at his success now.

I think I worded that wrong. What I meant was I don't think there should be an excuse for Griffin learning a new system, since he's not showing any signs of improvement. They don't want him to get hurt again, IMO, this is why they aren't coaching in the same vein as Kyle did.

There was and I am sure fewer now that said the Oline really isn't a problem and that Robert is at fault. I agree Robert has his short comings but stats or no stats I can see the line cave in when Colt or Cousins and/or Robert has his difficulties. True a master QB like Brady or Payton would fair better, but would still make them look bad. So when dealing with someone like Robert who is still green working in a pro offense, he may deserve a little more slack. He wont get it though.

StorminMormon86 wrote:It doesn't matter what "system" Griffin is playing in, he's still not showing any sort of improvement from 2013, even at the most rudimentary levels. He's shown zero pocket awareness and confidence and IMO, has regressed from last year. What more do we need to see? The poor guy looks worse than Patrick Ramsey at this point. Call it shell-shocked, fear of getting injured again, whatever you want...the guy just isn't the same anymore. 5 games is not going to change that.

I agree with some of your opinions about Griffin lately, but only because I think he's being given a fair shake. I think he needs to go out and perform just like any of the other QBs on the roster, no excuses. And I agree that "the system" isn't really the issue with him.

You might be completely right that he's done. My point is just that if Gruden or Snyder or whoever wants to see him play for another game or two or five this season its not the end of the world. Freaking hell, man, maybe he goes out v. Indy, beats Andrew Luck with some insane performance and gets his mojo back. I'm not expecting the miracle, but I'd love to see it.

riggofan wrote:I agree with some of your opinions about Griffin lately, but only because I think he's being given a fair shake. I think he needs to go out and perform just like any of the other QBs on the roster, no excuses. And I agree that "the system" isn't really the issue with him.

You might be completely right that he's done. My point is just that if Gruden or Snyder or whoever wants to see him play for another game or two or five this season its not the end of the world. Freaking hell, man, maybe he goes out v. Indy, beats Andrew Luck with some insane performance and gets his mojo back. I'm not expecting the miracle, but I'd love to see it.

That's what I believe as well. He's got his chance. Cousins had what? Ten games before being benched and inactivated? Gruden has tape on Griffin. Obviously something isn't clicking because he's not improving from last year on some of his fundamental issues. If Gruden wants to see him play some more games, there is no problem. IMO, he's done here. If Snyder wants to see him play more, that is a huge problem. Obviously, I'm not a head coach, nor do I see Griffin in practices, watch film, etc. But just watching him play he looks completely cooked.

StorminMormon86 wrote:That's what I believe as well. He's got his chance. Cousins had what? Ten games before being benched and inactivated?

Yeah but last year was just a complete disaster, I don't see much value in evaluating those games for either guy. Cousins and Griffin both deserved a clean slate with Gruden running his offense. Cousins basically got four and a half games before he was benched. (I'm not even counting the Jags game.)

Seems like the difference is that Cousins was benched because he was a turnover machine, we were losing potentially winnable games while we still had aspirations of making the playoffs. Its a completely different situation right now, and I don't have any problem if Gruden decides Cousins is the guy he'd like to take a look at the next five games.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:I agree with some of your opinions about Griffin lately, but only because I think he's being given a fair shake. I think he needs to go out and perform just like any of the other QBs on the roster, no excuses. And I agree that "the system" isn't really the issue with him.

You might be completely right that he's done. My point is just that if Gruden or Snyder or whoever wants to see him play for another game or two or five this season its not the end of the world. Freaking hell, man, maybe he goes out v. Indy, beats Andrew Luck with some insane performance and gets his mojo back. I'm not expecting the miracle, but I'd love to see it.

That's what I believe as well. He's got his chance. Cousins had what? Ten games before being benched and inactivated? Gruden has tape on Griffin. Obviously something isn't clicking because he's not improving from last year on some of his fundamental issues. If Gruden wants to see him play some more games, there is no problem. IMO, he's done here. If Snyder wants to see him play more, that is a huge problem. Obviously, I'm not a head coach, nor do I see Griffin in practices, watch film, etc. But just watching him play he looks completely cooked.

How many games that Cousins has started has he won again? I haven't given up on Cousins either but then again I thought Rex got a lot of undo negative criticism. By people on this board. If you believe everything ey says then listen to what he said about him (REX) in the archives and what really happened.

StorminMormon86 wrote:Gruden says today on a phone conference with reporters that he has "every intent" of starting Griffin against Indy. Goes on to say "as of right now" he gives the team the best chance to win. Then went on to say how his opinion may change come Wednesday. John Keim (ESPN guy for Skins) says he was confused and wouldn't be surprised with anything regarding who's starting. Seems like Gruden started off with an endorsement and then totally went vague about it. Now I'm confused too.

oh really It seems to me that Gruden is doing what a lot of HCs do on Mondays or when they're handling an issue like the Redskins and the QB position - he's 'managing' the information - not confusing at all really

good for him - I believe that Gruden will continue to start the QB that gives the team the best chance to win the next game

unlike many here, I will continue to think that is the best way to go - sorry that many will be disappointed if that happens to be Robert

oh! - and Jay, keep up with the "coddling" - it's helping

I think that Gruden can see if there's any progress better than most here - actually I know he can

some of you have valid concerns but then you go and make stupid assumptions

I think SJ still wears his Heath Shuler jersey.

I've changed my mind - I'm with you guys - stop the charade - put Colt out there

we'd be 6-5 if we'd let Colt play - Gruden is the reason we don't have Colt and he's the one calling the pass offense that does not work

WE WANT COLT - let me hear it now - WE WANT COLT

SkinsJock wrote:I'll go out on a limb and predict that if the offense does not improve this week it will not be because of the QB - and if Robert struggles at all, he may find himself on the sidelines

IMO, RG3 has been given way too many benefits of the doubt, and why? I think it's mainly because of all the hype that he came with...how many more seasons will be pissed away saying "he'd better play better next week or else?" The experiment is over and it's a failed one...time to move on...

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:It doesn't matter what "system" Griffin is playing in, he's still not showing any sort of improvement from 2013, even at the most rudimentary levels. He's shown zero pocket awareness and confidence and IMO, has regressed from last year. What more do we need to see? The poor guy looks worse than Patrick Ramsey at this point. Call it shell-shocked, fear of getting injured again, whatever you want...the guy just isn't the same anymore. 5 games is not going to change that.

I agree with some of your opinions about Griffin lately, but only because I think he's being given a fair shake. I think he needs to go out and perform just like any of the other QBs on the roster, no excuses. And I agree that "the system" isn't really the issue with him.

You might be completely right that he's done. My point is just that if Gruden or Snyder or whoever wants to see him play for another game or two or five this season its not the end of the world. Freaking hell, man, maybe he goes out v. Indy, beats Andrew Luck with some insane performance and gets his mojo back. I'm not expecting the miracle, but I'd love to see it.

I think I'm right with you, maybe with an extra dash of hope and/or optimism that we might see Griffin recover.