The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I hear you welch but I really do think that Snyder has in recent years let the FO and coaching staff do their thing

we will see how well that turns out here in this next draft and free agency period

we do not know but I'm confident that we have a future really good QB in Griffin and hopefully the FO and coaches can figure out which other players are worth building a team around

Welch is 100% right. To build a solid team we need solid building blocks. Since Snyder took over we have never had any depth.

Before Snyder, draft day was never exciting. The only thrill was learning that we found some potential starters in the late rounds. In the Snyder era it's been all about the "win now" mentality -- which hasn't worked out so well. We should never have traded a cow for 3 magic beans, if you know what I mean.

However, I do not blame Snyder. He has only done what the Washington Post told him he should do. The WP told him to be patient with Turner. He was patient, didn't work out, WP said we needed discipline, so Snyder hired a disciplinarian. That actually worked out pretty well except for the first 5 games, but WP columnist Kornheiser mocked "Martyball" so we got Spurrier, and the WP went wild. Then when that turned out to be a disaster, we went back to Gibbs II, another move the WP fully endorsed. Finally a proven legend would be in charge of all major decisions! What's not to like about that? Gibbs eventually gave up, and we got Zorn. Okay, Zorn is all on Snyder. What kind of idiot owner hires the OC and then starts interviewing for HC? Stupid move, and the only one the WP roundly criticized (and rightfully so, though if Jim Fassel gave his blessing to Zorn in advance, and if Snyder thought he could get Fassel, it makes a lot more sense). WP blasted Snyder and said he needed to let football people make the decisions. So we hired Allen and Shanahan and the WP gave its blessing. Everyone here at thehogs.net agreed. Finally, the future looked great. What could possibly go wrong? It turns out "football people" like Allen and Shanahan weren't the saviors the WP expected, even after trading for 3 magic beans. Shanahan's tenure ended in failure, and we are back to square one with little depth and few draft choices to work with.

I am as frustrated as everyone else, and I do not like Snyder's impatience. But people criticize him only with the benefit of hindsight, whereas most of his decisions were endorsed by the media in general, and WP in particular, and by the majority of fans at the time they were made. That makes me think that Snyder's real problem is that he is spineless and brainless, and just follows the prevailing conventional wisdom of the day. That's very different than the mainstream theory that he meddles too much and interferes with the real "football people" when it comes to personnel decisions.

Anyway, I got off on a tangent. The point I wanted to make is that we need depth, and to build depth we need to (i) stop overpaying for stars past their peak, (ii) stop trading away draft picks for unproven "maybe this guy could be a playmaker someday" QBs and WRs, (iii) start building a blue collar team with lost of above average players and no "superstars"; and (iv) let the "superstars" emerge from that environment as guys who stepped up their game.

One more thing: Is Alfred Morris the real deal? Or just a guy who fit well into the Shanahan scheme?

I'm with you Snout, I remember Gibbs won three SB with 3 different mediocre QB.

emoses14 wrote:

grampi wrote:
Some people are just "the glass is half full" people, while others are reality deniers...any team that is 1-5 is bad in my book no matter how positive of a person you are...

Grampi, I've disagreed with pretty much every post you've made in the last 4 weeks (perhaps longer, don't have time to research), HOWEVER, any 1-5 NFL team is bad, on that we agree.

Even you would have to admit, though, that 1-5 represents less than half the year. Things can stay the same, get worse or get better. History of this year dictates the first 2 are more likely, however, the remaining schedule, getting a QB who knows what color jersey his team is wearing (Griffin, I mean Griffin), and some guys coming back from injury (Bowen, I mean Bowen and Griffin, and not Hankerson) will certainly help. It is not out of the realm of possibility that this team finishes stronger than it has started.

Right?

I don't think getting RG3 back will help...well, not for long anyway...he can't stay healthy...he's way too fragile...and yes, the season is less than half over, but I still see this team ending up 3-13...

deleted - Deadskins is right ... bye

Why do you feed the trolls?

Snout wrote:However, I do not blame Snyder. He has only done what the Washington Post told him he should do. The WP told him to be patient with Turner.

hah. So you're not blaming Snyder, you're blaming the media??? I think from reading your post that you actually are blaming Snyder.

We can't just give Snyder a pass because he has done what the local newspaper beat writers encouraged him to do. Or radio hosts or fans calling into the local radio or numbskulls on internet message boards for that matter. These people might all have opinions, and some of them have loud soapboxes, but none of them know jack about building a successful football team. (Neither does Dan Snyder for that matter.) That's not leadership or vision, that's just sticking his finger up to see which way the wind is blowing.

Snyder has only had a legit front office/GM guy in place twice during his tenure as owner in my opinion. One was Charlie Casserly whom he fired. The other was John Schneider who replaced Vinny Cerrato for a year when Marty was coach. Snyder of course fired him with Marty and brought back Vinny. Genius. You may remember John Schneider as the GM who just built the Seahawks team:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... -redskins/

Bruce Allen? I just don't know. It seems too early to really be blaming Allen for our roster issues - he's only been in place for a year - but I'm not overly optimistic about him. He's a politician and a back slapper, and I'm sure he gets along well with Snyder. Just not sure that is the guy this franchise needs to steer the ship.

+1 - Allen has not proven to be anything at all yet - the coming draft and free agent signings are crucial

I say.......BUMP THE WRs at the line and "throw them off" their routes.

But what the heck do I know...?

tribeofjudah wrote:I say.......BUMP THE WRs at the line and "throw them off" their routes.

But what the heck do I know...?

That would be a damn good start.

welch wrote:- OL makes the offense move. Joe Gibbs explained that over and over, and showed us by the way he maintained the best OL in the NFL all those years. Bostic, Jacoby, Grimm, May, Lachey, all the others. In 2004, one of his first moves was to hire Joe Bugel and Bugel worked to improve the OL. The OL lets the team run and gives Cousins time to pass.

- DL makes a difference: with a good DL, the opposing team cannot run and their QB has less time to pass.

- Do not obsess over who is the Redskin QB. A great QB cannot win games alone. Tom Brady and Russell Wilson are good QBs, but not close to Sonny. Yet, the Redskins did not make the playoffs even when Sonny could throw to Jerry Smith, Bobby Mitchell, and Charley Taylor.

It is harsh, but neither Griffin nor Cousins -- alone -- will make this a good team. No one change will fix this season. I hope that Gruden is deciding which players are keepers. I hope Allen has a skilled and large scouting department preparing for the draft and careful free agent signings. Yes, Art Monk was a first round pick, but Charles Mann and Dexter Manley arrived in about the 4th round. I don;t think Jacoby was drafted. Make good 4th round picks (and later) of OL and DL. Then, Griffin and Cousins will look better.

(Note: I am realistic. Snyder seems to be as incompetent as GP Marshall...at least in running a football team. We are stuck with Snyder. It has been about 15 years and he seems lost in a fog brewed up by the people he hires. Maybe he will "outsource" the running of the team, as Jack Kent Cooke did. We can hope, anyway.)

OK welch - we know that Snyder wants to make the franchise great and he's tried just about everything to that end

IMO he's now giving the FO the opportunity to make things better but at the same time he's making it difficult - we all know that the Goodell/Mara BS deal cost us dearly but now we have the name change issue dragging on and it's a bit of a distraction

let's be real here - we need a GM or 'football man' whose sole and only job is to make the product on the field better

I don't think that's happening here yet - from all accounts Allen and the FO are not solely involved with the players and coaches they're also spending valuable time on other things - this is what it's like when you work here

we hear that we need a football guy here - fact is we need Snyder to let his football people do their jobs and not clean up his stupidity

Well, Kai did alright. Who showed Jay and Haz the rest of my post??

DarthMonk wrote:1 Re-sign Hocker

2 Run pistol/read option 2-3 times per quarter.

3 Force the issue with DBs at least 3 yards before the line of gain on 3rd down plays.

4 Put 7 guys in the box on every play, have every guy standing up threaten blitz, and bring 5-7 guys in every "passing situation" without tipping who it is.

5 Play with heart.

6 Play with heart.

7 Play with heart.

8 Play with heart.

9 Play with heart.

10 Play with heart.

11 Play with heart.

12 Play with heart.

13 Play with heart.

14 Play with heart.

15 Play with heart.

16 Play with heart.

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DarthMonk wrote:Well, Kai did alright. Who showed Jay and Haz the rest of my post??

DarthMonk wrote:1 Re-sign Hocker

2 Run pistol/read option 2-3 times per quarter.

3 Force the issue with DBs at least 3 yards before the line of gain on 3rd down plays.

4 Put 7 guys in the box on every play, have every guy standing up threaten blitz, and bring 5-7 guys in every "passing situation" without tipping who it is.

5 Play with heart.

6 Play with heart.

7 Play with heart.

8 Play with heart.

9 Play with heart.

10 Play with heart.

11 Play with heart.

12 Play with heart.

13 Play with heart.

14 Play with heart.

15 Play with heart.

16 Play with heart.

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Clear eyes, full hearts. Can't lose.

I honestly did not think our defense was capable of such an effort. I knew we had a front line but our corners played a terrific game. Props to you young Breeland and Amerson came to play as well. Merriweather had a great game as well.

Oh yeah that was a great game. Just when everyone counted us out we surprise the naysayers.

Seriously never thought Colt Mccoy of all people would give us a boost. Props to you Colt your officially a Redskin.

Most definatley this team played with heart. Keenan Robinson is looking more like a pro bowler every Sunday. Kerrigan is up to his usual shenanigans wreaking havoc. Great win!!!! Oh yeah feels good. More work to be done.

After seeing how our defense played against one of the best Olines in the league. There is no reason why they cant do this every Sunday.
Our corners proved they can play now. Now we are going to expect that every Sunday.

Breeland wow! What a game for such a young fella. I already knew Amerson was capable of such things. But Breeland played the game of his life in his young career.

Merriweather is a saavy vet. Merriweather can be good when he has his head on straight and blitzing more.

I think we have found our defensive scheme and formula. While it may change a bit from game to game. I think this should be our base defense. Mainly pressuring the QB.

Keenan Robinson can do everything as a LB. He can stop the run, cover and blitz.
Kerrigan is a hassle to deal with for opposing Olines. He should be in the backfield full time. He had a great game as always.

DarthMonk wrote:Well, Kai did alright. Who showed Jay and Haz the rest of my post??

DarthMonk wrote:1 Re-sign Hocker

2 Run pistol/read option 2-3 times per quarter.

3 Force the issue with DBs at least 3 yards before the line of gain on 3rd down plays.

4 Put 7 guys in the box on every play, have every guy standing up threatening the blitz, and bring 5-7 guys in every "passing situation" without tipping who it is.

5 Play with heart.

good post here from DM ... I'm a Hocker fan but we saw a different Kai Forbath right from the first kickoff

much better kickoffs and while we know he's a good FG kicker the kicks he made under the pressure in this game were awesome

Just like the rest of the team - Kai had a HUGE game

this is the type of effort and level of play we need to see each week

there were a lot of mental mistakes and a lot of things that could have caused the players and coaches some problems but ...

great to hear the comments after the game and how the players and coaches felt and reacted to what they all did

this could be a HUGE step for this franchise

I read something today where Kai has had 10 touchback kickoffs this season already. Only had 14 all of last year. So good that he is making some progress there.

riggofan wrote:I read something today where Kai has had 10 touchback kickoffs this season already. Only had 14 all of last year. So good that he is making some progress there.

Turns out it's 7 TB on 15 KOs.

We are 25th in the NFL in TB %.

Discounting Denver (altitude) and stadia with roofs, the leader in TB % is Carolina (Gano).

The key to turning this season around is simple - we need to play hard like we did in the last game

and

we have to eliminate the stupid mistakes and stupid penalties - we are not good enough to overcome our own stupidity

we have lost a couple of games this season because we played badly not because we were out played by the other team

hopefully we get to 8-8 or 9-7 and then we address the O line and the secondary

same old Redskins - we'll be better next year

Some interesting numbers in here today:

http://realredskins.com/2014/11/06/need ... sing-game/

—8.1 yards per pass (1st in the NFL)—A lot of this is the combination of Griffin, McCoy, and Cousins to DeSean Jackson. But not everything goes to Jackson and the fact that the three QBs have combined to complete better than two out of three passes (67.2 percent, 3rd in the NFL) helps.

—6.2 yards per offensive play (3rd)—So the Redskins aren’t just moving the ball through the air, they are getting enough done on the ground to gain more yards per play than any team but the Saints and Broncos.

Every time we lose a game, people are immediately posting about how terrible the offensive line is. I have no doubt we can improve a couple spots on the o-line, but the comments still have me scratching my head.

I understand where you're coming from riggofan but the fact is the stats are misleading the reality that the O line is a weakness

The O line is NOT the ONLY reason we're having trouble getting good yardage out of Morris & that we're terrible on 3rd downs but everyone that knows anything about line blocking and pass protecting agrees that we are not getting much help from the O line

the stats can prove otherwise - HOWEVER we're going to see a lot of changes on the O line before next season and they would not be doing that if the FO and coaches thought that this O line does not need it - we have enough issues to address

If this O line is not upgraded next season, I'll come back and apologize

we have many issues with both players and coaching but the 2 biggest are the O line and the secondary, also the defensive linemen



EVERYONE is going to be given an opportunity to show what they can do - that's what we've got to look forward to here

there are many players that have shown they can be a help but we have some that will be lucky to get jobs in the NFL next season

riggofan wrote:Some interesting numbers in here today:

http://realredskins.com/2014/11/06/need ... sing-game/

—8.1 yards per pass (1st in the NFL)—A lot of this is the combination of Griffin, McCoy, and Cousins to DeSean Jackson. But not everything goes to Jackson and the fact that the three QBs have combined to complete better than two out of three passes (67.2 percent, 3rd in the NFL) helps.

—6.2 yards per offensive play (3rd)—So the Redskins aren’t just moving the ball through the air, they are getting enough done on the ground to gain more yards per play than any team but the Saints and Broncos.

Every time we lose a game, people are immediately posting about how terrible the offensive line is. I have no doubt we can improve a couple spots on the o-line, but the comments still have me scratching my head.

Revealing. We are moving the chains. Scoring is not as high as it should be but field position has been horrible. We start INSIDE OUR OWN 20 YARD LINE OVER 30% OF THE TIME. Only the Vikings are worse. We can blame D and specials for most of that.

D has been horrible playing zone. We should almost never play zone. O-line is good enough to have a winning record if D and specials are just average.

Nice post, riggo.

SkinsJock wrote:I understand where you're coming from riggofan but the fact is the stats are misleading the reality that the O line is a weakness

I don't disagree that stats can be misleading. With those stats for example, YAC probably inflates them a bit. But its crazy to say the offensive line is a "weakness" when we're one of the leading offenses in generating yardage. I've been saying this for a while, but I think the truth is that the o-line has been OK and the numbers bear that out.

SkinsJock wrote:everyone that knows anything about line blocking and pass protecting agrees that we are not getting much help from the O line

Huh??? You're just demonstrably wrong about that, and you're writing something that the facts do not support. Our team has passed for 2541 yards this season so far. That's #3 behind Pittsburgh and New Orleans. How can you write that the o-line is not helping in pass protection? I think people see the QB get sacked two or three times a game and just assume that the line sucks. Well, news flash, every QB gets sacked.

Even in rushing yardage we're #15. That's not as good as it should be, but we'll see where they end up.

SkinsJock wrote:HOWEVER we're going to see a lot of changes on the O line before next season and they would not be doing that if the FO and coaches thought that this O line does not need it

I'm curious what changes you think we're going to see before next season. Trent Williams will be back. Lauvao will be back, he's on a four year contract. Lichtensteiger wil be back, he's on a 5 year contract. They've already replaced Polumbus with Compton, *maybe* Moses will be ready to step in there. The only player likely to change is at guard with Chris Chester. That doesn't sound like "a lot of changes on the O line" to me.

Anyway, the reason I point this out is that as much as I'm in favor of drafting offensive linemen, our needs on defense are way more pressing. The offense is in decent shape and is good enough to win games if the defense wasn't such a train wreck. Defensive line and safety.

riggofan wrote:Defensive line and safety.

Without a doubt safety. Our safety play is horrendously bad. And it's been awful for a few years now.