The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

riggofan wrote:

hanburgerheel wrote:6 points in 4 quarters. Whoo-hoo!

The Snyder Era is one long tragedy. I've been a fan since I was a young boy in the 1970's. I'm just getting to the point that I don't wanna waste my Sundays on this perpetual disappointment.

So don't. Maybe you can find another sport where your team always wins.

I swear its the same people who scream until they're red in the face about how they'll defend the Redskins name and the great tradition that they've known since they watched the team whup the Cowboys on their grandpappy's knee who wake up on Monday morning after the first game of the season and start crying about everything that sucks about the team.

Football season is back man, freaking enjoy it. The team didn't win yesterday, but they didn't embarrass themselves either.

That's what I wanted to say but I didn't want to be so blunt. I understand his pain just like younger people do, but at least I can cherish the winning seasons I did get to witness I feel bad for the younger fans but they have my respect too because they haven't witnessed Redskin greatness. They still bleed black and gold or what ever that impersonating coach said.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

One sentence out of a 4 paragraph post full of FACTS and STATS to support an alternative opinion --- of course you of all people would focus on the most irrelevant sentence in an effort to weasel your way out of the conversation....... I apologize that I provided too many facts about WHAT HAPPENED to dispute your opinions. I know you hate that.......

Like a child, you literally made a stupid comment and before someone could respond, covered your ears and started yelling LA LA LA LA LA LA..... Nice work.

Another example of you only wanting to read things you agree with. I guess that is what you mean by "realistic".... which obviously couldn't be further from reality

Nice try though.

I don't like him? That undercut any analysis you did. It's a pretty heavy girl accusation you made and then brushed off. I'm glad you're in touch with your feminine side, but just leave that BS out if you want to hang out with guys and talk football. Seriously.

Wrong --- that was your "out" after I disagreed -- including facts and stats -- with your initial "unrealistic" statement. 99% of my initial post was about football. You instead decided to discuss the 1% that wasn't. Then you accuse me of discussing things non-football...... I love the fact you still continue to discuss the non-football aspects of my post while maintaining you don't want to talk about non-football things. There is no bigger hypocrite on this board.

I'd love to hear something football relevant out of you. Instead you accuse without supporting yourself in any way.

So if you aren't talking out of your "behind" and you do want to discuss football, what are your responses to the following responses to things you intially disagreed with:
1. Grampi said that RGIII isn't doing anything to make this team "better" --- this is actually supported by his 29.6 QBR (a stat created to determine whether the QB "contributed" to scoring and winning the game).
2. He also played a very similar style game to last season --- he didn't run and the majority of this passes were very very short (RGIII attempted 14 passes at or behind the LOS and his average completion was 3.7 yards downfield; out of 37 attempts). They have also taken his running ability out of the game plan, he only had 3 attempts -- when he averaged 6.6 LAST year and 8 the year prior.
3. And I'm not sure how many "positives" came out of that game. We put up 6 points and lost to the worst team in football last year. We continued to be horrible on special teams, couldn't score, made a TON of mistakes that cost us, our OL was manhandled, our offensive playcalling was lackluster, we didn't use our offensive weapons properly, we didn't expose our opponents clear weaknesses, etc. etc. etc. Defensively there were some positives, but, again, HOU may be one of the worst offenses in the NFL this season

Why don't you man up for once. Don't shoot around the subject and actually support your grossly inaccurate and incorrect statements. You are so consistently wrong on this board that you literally have resorted to the above responses.

I think he said red and gold...
Im not getting younger but consider myself part of the "younger" generation...

Being born in 85' obviously means I was a little kid the last time we were relevant. . And maybe that fuels some of my disdain for complaining.

Im used to this , and if I wasnt true to who I am I could easily given it up and get a 12 man shirt... part of my fandom entails having hope and faith in my squad and being resilient to the bitter end.

Im on fb and in a group NFC East NO MERCY.. I talk smack all day (if I choose to take part) with the other three teams. I use stats, players, changes, and hope to support my squad and I will NEVER throw in the chips.

If we win 4 games this year- sweeping the shmeagles and the pukes (funny thing outside of this site people dont know who the pukes are, yet) then for ne thats a good enough season. Beating the pukes for the nfceast championship in 2012 sadly was my superbowl.. but im good, bring it! No time for cryin on to next week! Mount up redskins nation!!

We talk about the effort and team.. maybe they need the unwavering support like Seattle delivers! No qb controversy. .. win lose or draw-

riggofan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Agree, new staff, same problems. What people fail to understand is that the REAL problem is ownership. Everything starts at the top. Ownership has to hire a quality FO; a quality FO has to hire quality coaches and players; quality coaches have to implement quality schemes; quality players have to execute quality schemes. There is LITERALLY only 1 thing that has NOT changed in all these years of suffering: OWNERSHIP.

So why bother? We're not getting a new owner.

You wrote a lot of interesting opinions on problems with the offense yesterday otherwise. I'm not sure how or why your big conclusion on what's wrong with the offense ended up with: Dan Snyder.

You bother because you love the team. We have a horrible owner, but it will take much more for me to stop loving my team.

And the particular issues with our offense are very different from the problems we have with ownership. The ownership issue is something much larger and long term vs. the specific offensive ones. My prior post was looking at things at a micro level; the ownership is at a macro level.

1. Qbr.. fun. Can you personally manipulate it? Remove the fumble caused by a lineman stepping into the hand off- and add a td for paul whom shouldve been reed for 6 instead of another fumble- and let me know what you get.
2. Rg was standing in the collapsing pocket... skins ruin qbs every generation with this same philosophy. Why we didnt run more or roll Robert out is unknown. He went where he could, and often took a shot after doing so. Had a playmaker made a damb play or two maybe the heat wouldnt be on robert today... do you not see how much time romo, ryan, manning, breezy, etc havebin the pocket?? He didn't turnbit over and the fumbles killed what couldve been a pretty good game for him- right?
3. Plenty of positives man!! STs is improved butnlike the O a work inbprogress. Id prefer these speed bumps now and cleaned up by midseason, right?
Alfred is stillnome of the best in the biz
Hatcher is a beast
back field did well vs a pretty solid wr core in Andre and Hawkins
^Houston has a decent oline, Arian Foster and those two wide outs with a pretty good te. Not to long ago this team had the most passing yards in the league!! Yes fitz is mediocre, but maybe he excels with this group? Nonetheless he will play at a high level a cple games a year.. Houstons record last year is NOT a good measure of who they are right now.

I was actually telling people that this could be a trap game for us as Houston has a ton of talent on both sides of the ball.

Our biggest concern is keeping Reed healthy- sob he mightve been the check down king difference in the game, and our right side especially tackle needs to be replaced. Mosses- step up son!!

some here are making out like they think we were favored to win this game or that we should have won because this team finished with the worst record in the NFL ...

unfortunately for us we were not playing last season's team ...

markshark84 wrote:You bother because you love the team. We have a horrible owner, but it will take much more for me to stop loving my team.

Me too. Your comment though was all about how ownership is responsible for hiring the FO, etc; the ownership is the problem and hasn't changed. I just don't get your point. If you don't think we can ever field a decent team with the current owner, I just don't get why you would bother watching.

I basically agree with you on Snyder. The guy is a creep in my book and has been an absolute disaster as our owner. I will say though that he got some credit with me when he fired Cerrato. That was a huge step in the right direction. We basically just had four miserable years of Shanahan cleaning house and straightening out the team contract mess. So to me, this experiment with Bruce Allen/Jay Gruden is a clean slate for Snyder and a legit chance to redeem himself.

We're not going to get a new owner. So we need to hope he can get out of his own way and quit running the team like a moronic Napoleon.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:2. Rg was standing in the collapsing pocket... skins ruin qbs every generation with this same philosophy. Why we didnt run more or roll Robert out is unknown. He went where he could, and often took a shot after doing so. Had a playmaker made a damb play or two maybe the heat wouldnt be on robert today... do you not see how much time romo, ryan, manning, breezy, etc havebin the pocket?? He didn't turnbit over and the fumbles killed what couldve been a pretty good game for him- right?

Just thought this was a funny comment. Skins fans seem really divided on this. A lot of people want him to stand in the pocket, quit with the happy feet and a lot want all of this designed running.

I know what you're saying though about the team ruining QBs behind these offensive lines.

Gruden like the short game. It is classic Mike Holmgren the tree the Gruden came from. Yes they throw deep and we tried but when there is no time you have to take what is given. If he tried a 3 step drop and heave it: it would have been worse.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I think he said red and gold... <snip>

it was "maroon and black"... I mean it was like the biggest whiff ever!

Had Andre Roberts play been upheld, like it should've, and if Paul either gets in or down or better yet its Reed instead for 6, and Garçon catches the deep ball- whats the tune today?!?

I know Rg will get torched this week and some things are accurate but others just arent. Plenty of blame to go around as all three of those plays we needed these guys to help their qb! Perfect throw? Na. It wont always be- good teams make plays for their qb and that was lacking. Long catch/run just to stripped away?! Thats on Griff?! I wish I could change my avatar sometimes cus I trully try to look at everything objectively... and choose to defwnd Griff when he clearly is NOT the reason weve lost 9 straight- yer boy Cousins owns 3 of those ftr.

The haters are the ones who are never satisfied. . They make a fuss for Beck and then see why he is a backup and go back to blaming the owner- whom is just a fan like us w money. Another owner trying to turn his team around was in attendance on Sunday- luckily for him we gift wrapped the first W.

Countertrey wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I think he said red and gold... <snip>

it was "maroon and black"... I mean it was like the biggest whiff ever!

yep u nailed it! Like wtf? They dont even sell those color skins jerseys as a knock off at the flee market... did he even know what team he was hired to coach?! Lmmfao

riggofan wrote:This is just garbage reaction. I can't even call it analysis. Our offense put up 267 receiving yards and 131 rushing yards, so clearly we CAN move the ball. And its straight retarded to write "Our line sucks" after we rushed for 131 yards.

How many first downs did we have in the first half? This o-line has historically been better with run blocking than pass blocking, and Morris and Helu had something to do with those 131 rush yards, no?

riggofan wrote:Clearly they had their hands full with JJ Watt, one of the best d-linemen in the league. That also accounts for why they had to rely on the short passing game. It was a good game plan, and we moved the ball better than Houston did.

It was a good game plan that wasn't working. And they didn't change it. That's absurd.

riggofan wrote:Yeah it sucks that we lost. But we lost because of two bad turnovers and one godawful ST play. We played "ok", but we're not nearly a good enough team to turn the ball over three times.

I don't understand how we played "ok". Had the final score been 17-14, I'd say yes we played "ok". We scored 6 points.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I think he said red and gold...
Im not getting younger but consider myself part of the "younger" generation...

Being born in 85' obviously means I was a little kid the last time we were relevant. . And maybe that fuels some of my disdain for complaining.

Im used to this , and if I wasnt true to who I am I could easily given it up and get a 12 man shirt... part of my fandom entails having hope and faith in my squad and being resilient to the bitter end.

Im on fb and in a group NFC East NO MERCY.. I talk smack all day (if I choose to take part) with the other three teams. I use stats, players, changes, and hope to support my squad and I will NEVER throw in the chips.

If we win 4 games this year- sweeping the shmeagles and the pukes (funny thing outside of this site people dont know who the pukes are, yet) then for ne thats a good enough season. Beating the pukes for the nfceast championship in 2012 sadly was my superbowl.. but im good, bring it! No time for cryin on to next week! Mount up redskins nation!!

We talk about the effort and team.. maybe they need the unwavering support like Seattle delivers! No qb controversy. .. win lose or draw-

Well I don't want to say it can't get any worse because I am superstitious. Did I just say that?

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:1. Qbr.. fun. Can you personally manipulate it? Remove the fumble caused by a lineman stepping into the hand off- and add a td for paul whom shouldve been reed for 6 instead of another fumble- and let me know what you get.
2. Rg was standing in the collapsing pocket... skins ruin qbs every generation with this same philosophy. Why we didnt run more or roll Robert out is unknown. He went where he could, and often took a shot after doing so. Had a playmaker made a damb play or two maybe the heat wouldnt be on robert today... do you not see how much time romo, ryan, manning, breezy, etc havebin the pocket?? He didn't turnbit over and the fumbles killed what couldve been a pretty good game for him- right?
3. Plenty of positives man!! STs is improved butnlike the O a work inbprogress. Id prefer these speed bumps now and cleaned up by midseason, right?
Alfred is stillnome of the best in the biz
Hatcher is a beast
back field did well vs a pretty solid wr core in Andre and Hawkins
^Houston has a decent oline, Arian Foster and those two wide outs with a pretty good te. Not to long ago this team had the most passing yards in the league!! Yes fitz is mediocre, but maybe he excels with this group? Nonetheless he will play at a high level a cple games a year.. Houstons record last year is NOT a good measure of who they are right now.

I was actually telling people that this could be a trap game for us as Houston has a ton of talent on both sides of the ball.

Our biggest concern is keeping Reed healthy- sob he mightve been the check down king difference in the game, and our right side especially tackle needs to be replaced. Mosses- step up son!!

Nice post.

1. I'm not sure how I can personally manipulate QBR. But, I don't see why you can remove the fumble (which I'm sure was part of it). RGIII stepped on the OL's foot. It was a mistake, but mistake nonetheless. The fumble by Paul isn't taken into the equation, so it woudn't have changed the stat --- and I forget but would have scored (serious question; I forget)? I thought he would have fallen over or been tackled.
2. Agree we should have run the ball more; not sure about bootlegs only because of their lateral pass rush attack. I also don't think we put our "playmakers" in the position to make big plays. The average pass to Desean went 2.4 yards vertically. He can't do much with that. The dude (Desean) has proven he can make plays. We only had 2 good downfield looks. I agree that RGIII was standing in a clapsing pocket, but he never moved into the pocket. You need to do that. QBs have more time when they are comforable doing that. RGIII needs to learn. The mistakes you discuss were costly, but we had 9 other drives too.

As far as the skins ruining QBs every generation ---- this could be the case, or, more likely, it is (holding too long) a trait of poor QBs. After all, all those QBs were under different systems.

3. As far as the positivies, I will always envy your optimism.

For Morris, he is a stud and I've always said that. After his first pre-season game, I hardheadedly predicted he would be one of, if not the best, RB in redskins history. I loved him from day 1. I don't consider his output to be a positive, because I have come to EXPECT that type of output from him.

I wouldn't consider the ST to be "improved" when they gave up a blocked punt for TD and a blocked extra point. Our punter did look good; I'll give you that.

The O looked bad; getting only 6 points and 2 HUGE TOs. It's a work in progress, but getting them cleaned up by midseason is FAR too late. The season will be over by week 6 if that's the case.

Hatcher did look VERY good.

We'll see about the DBs. They played well, but Fitz is horrible. Agree HOU is better than last year's record. But we'll have a better idea after week 4.

But all in all I do think you make some good points, but I just don't agree with all of them.

riggofan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:You bother because you love the team. We have a horrible owner, but it will take much more for me to stop loving my team.

I basically agree with you on Snyder. The guy is a creep in my book and has been an absolute disaster as our owner. I will say though that he got some credit with me when he fired Cerrato. That was a huge step in the right direction. We basically just had four miserable years of Shanahan cleaning house and straightening out the team contract mess. So to me, this experiment with Bruce Allen/Jay Gruden is a clean slate for Snyder and a legit chance to redeem himself.

We're not going to get a new owner. So we need to hope he can get out of his own way and quit running the team like a moronic Napoleon.

I hear what you're saying and hope you are right.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:This is just garbage reaction. I can't even call it analysis. Our offense put up 267 receiving yards and 131 rushing yards, so clearly we CAN move the ball. And its straight retarded to write "Our line sucks" after we rushed for 131 yards.

How many first downs did we have in the first half? This o-line has historically been better with run blocking than pass blocking, and Morris and Helu had something to do with those 131 rush yards, no?

riggofan wrote:Clearly they had their hands full with JJ Watt, one of the best d-linemen in the league. That also accounts for why they had to rely on the short passing game. It was a good game plan, and we moved the ball better than Houston did.

It was a good game plan that wasn't working. And they didn't change it. That's absurd.

riggofan wrote:Yeah it sucks that we lost. But we lost because of two bad turnovers and one godawful ST play. We played "ok", but we're not nearly a good enough team to turn the ball over three times.

I don't understand how we played "ok". Had the final score been 17-14, I'd say yes we played "ok". We scored 6 points.

I was ticked off, mad, irate please someone help me with more adjectives or explicatives. Then I realized it is a silly game. I always get wrapped up into it every year. It is just that a game. Don't fret it.

Kilmer72 wrote:I was ticked off, mad, irate please someone help me with more adjectives or explicatives. Then I realized it is a silly game. I always get wrapped up into it every year. It is just that a game. Don't fret it.

I felt better after the Orioles came back and won. Sunday wasn't a total bust for me.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... pletionPct

This paints a much different picture of our qb..
compare it to even Brady! Less yards per attempt less completions... good qbs throwing picks.. there is a lot to commend it isnt one sided.

For the qbr (I cant quote you again) im saying if u take off the fumble, it was the lineman who stepped on robert [due to losing his only job badly] and he tried to complete the hand off anyhow, and if you give him a td and the extra 4 yards where Paul blew it (taking into account it shouldve been Reed in there with better speed and well better everything) that his qbr will be drastically better. He actually did good moving the ball save some setbacks and was generally smart with it. Did he miss a playbor two? Im sure. But he wasnt as bad as soke are suggesting. My vantage w dvr stop go rewind and slow mo was much better then yours- although id prefer your seat. No ints is good. No tds is bad. It was a game we are all to familiar with where nothing goes right. Blocked xp? Do other teams even know that sickening feeling?!
Football is a game of inches andbibthink we are closer to being competitive and decent then some others here.. I saw the same bad plays- butbi guess I choose to see Robert differently- maybe thats just my hope, or blind faith, or the stats and gane tape that concur...

Thanks for giving me a little credit w the "nice post".. i know you mentioned my analysis was.. well lacking and unfavorable before

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/completionPct

This paints a much different picture of our qb..
compare it to even Brady! Less yards per attempt less completions... good qbs throwing picks.. there is a lot to commend it isnt one sided.

For the qbr (I cant quote you again) im saying if u take off the fumble, it was the lineman who stepped on robert [due to losing his only job badly] and he tried to complete the hand off anyhow, and if you give him a td and the extra 4 yards where Paul blew it (taking into account it shouldve been Reed in there with better speed and well better everything) that his qbr will be drastically better. He actually did good moving the ball save some setbacks and was generally smart with it. Did he miss a playbor two? Im sure. But he wasnt as bad as soke are suggesting. My vantage w dvr stop go rewind and slow mo was much better then yours- although id prefer your seat. No ints is good. No tds is bad. It was a game we are all to familiar with where nothing goes right. Blocked xp? Do other teams even know that sickening feeling?!
Football is a game of inches andbibthink we are closer to being competitive and decent then some others here.. I saw the same bad plays- butbi guess I choose to see Robert differently- maybe thats just my hope, or blind faith, or the stats and gane tape that concur...

Thanks for giving me a little credit w the "nice post".. i know you mentioned my analysis was.. well lacking and unfavorable before

Another good post. I'm a fan of opinions that provide support. And I do agree with some of your sentiments, just not all --- I honestly think I'm just not as optimistic and am pretty critical....

That being said, I believe RGIII's completion % was high because his average pass went around 3.7 yards downfield. Completion % is important as is yards/attempt, but in this case, I don't consider it accurate given the circumstances.

And you can't pick and choose your stats and how to manipulate them. The QBR has been tested and proven to be accurate. Too many should of could ofs in your analysis. I can bet that if you did that with other QBs, it would even make RGIII's QBR worse by comparison.

My vantage point was better than almost anyones as to what RGIII was doing (I basically had a coordinator booth vantage point). I actually watched the game on TV when I got home --- and I must say the crowd noise wasn't close to what it felt like in stadium. When it was loud, I couldn't have a yelling conversation with the person sitting next to me. I had never experienced crowd noise like that in any game I have ever attended.

I hope you are right in that we are closer than most think. If RGIII continues to play in this manner, I am not optimistic ---- however, I believe he is a much better QB.

I was worried about the what ifs portion as well.. what if we didnt get a puntbblocked what if we didnt fumble inside the ten twice what if Roberts carch held what if Garçon qent up a fraction later and made the play. I was just curious to what itd look like minus the handoff fumble since it was in Alfreds hand and his own knee bounced it out- and Robert being stepped on due to the linemen getting blown up I didnt see that as being squarely on him. I felt that the Paul fumble was a good what if because most anyone else on the Roster scores om that play either especially Reed or even Paulson. Sucks that it didn't turn out that way.
Romo is a statistical god- and we know how is career ended up- so playing with stats is kind of silly ultimately. Ive seen Robert kill teams with his arm in ncaa and the pros.. he is a duel threat whom needs to stay healthy so they are trying to tweak his style to get to the andrew luck level. He isnt there yet, butbim very hopeful he gets there soon.
The whole team gets a piece of the blame and Robert certainly isnt above that. He just doesnt deserve the "bust" label or play the backup card yet. He played good enough to get us the w- and other areas fell short. He could have played BETTER and overcame those big blows- but thats a tall order in a new system, a new role pretty much, vs a lofty pass rush.

If I had to blame one man it has to be Gruden. His unwillingness to continue running the ball after averaging ~7 yards is mind boggling. A 12 year old in China playing Madden wouldve kept feeding the A train- I have no idea why we did not. He too gets the "new role" "growing pains" pass... but the get out of jail free card will not be om the table in week 5/6.

Im hopeful he handles the adversity properly this week and makes progress in practice to right the ship this weekend. Luckily we are only a game back and can quite possibly bebin sole command of the East after week 3- fecals will play a pist off Luck and co this week before Djaxs coming home party!

Ive always been the half full silver lining type.. and being a skins fan is no exception. Its not easy any way you slice it. Hope and faith only gets you through the week... the team has GOT to play better and hopefully they do!

I wonder what he was told to do because from what I was reading before the game that was their plan. Short passes to alleviate the rush. If I told my QB to do something and he deviated I might be a little ticked off.

The Texans game plan was stop the pass. Max cover, and bring 5/6 every down.. they were allowing the run and we didnt keep with it. Niners did the same to dullass and Ohno threw a bunch of ints.. they too had the run game going cherry and abandoned. Seems like coaches feel like they have to impress or make sportscenter with high passin numbers.. Wilson didnt even break 200 yards. And they won by feesing beast mode. Similar for the niners.

Run run until the stop it then fake it, pass and run some more.. Shouldve been a 2 td 200 yard game for Morris. What a shame for fantasy owners

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Shouldve been a 2 td 200 yard game for Morris. What a shame for fantasy owners

Yes it was. I still should win the week, though.

PS Any word on Reed's injury? I'd hate to lose him so early this season.

When Joe Gibbs came to town the first time he brought the Air Coryell offense. It was working. We were lighting it up except one thing.... We lost. Then Joe decided to run the ball. Guess what happen? Next in line was coach Norv, he tried his pass happy offense too and then he decided to trust in his running game. He started to have way better luck after that. Gibbs came back a second time and he ran his one back. It was working. We just didn't have the people. Then he hired AL. Al decided to air it out and Gibbs had to pull the raines back. When he did we were successful. It is an unfortunate recurrence. Gruden will get it next year maybe; before if he is smart.

Despite what people say the league has turned to, look at the Seahawks. As much as I hate them I have to say they go with fundamentals. Lets not be fancy here. Just play ball!!!