Page 3 of 4
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:10 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
I want the Vikings to change their name. I'm half English and historically, Vikings ransacked our villages. I'm offended that an NFL team would rub that history in my face every Sunday. Obviously they're doing it for the purpose of offending me, why else would they chose that name other than to be offensive?
Given the history of the IRA, Notre Dame Irish, Syracuse Orangement and the Boston Celtics are clearly advocating terrorism. I lived in NY and was in the area on 9/11. That's just offensive, it's like they are taunting me.
And they call my home State of Michigan, "the rust belt." Clearly the Steelers are just using it to taunt us, Iron, Rust. Offensive, change it.
Giants would be offensive to fat people, Patriots to Quakers. I think we need to restrict teams to only inanimate objects so we don't offend anyone no matter how badly they want to be offended.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:52 pm
by yupchagee
Maybe teams should be required to have names that fit the city or state they represent:
NY Muggers
LA Lunatics
San Fran... let's not go there.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:31 pm
by Kilmer72
This is what Grampi and I were trying to say a while back... How bout this
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... pache-chi/
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:13 pm
by SkinsJock
and now Joe Gibbs is showing his true colors - must be a racist ...
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... ive-for-me
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:40 pm
by riggofan
KazooSkinsFan wrote:So why are you a Redskin fan then?
Because I enjoy football. Because I grew up watching and attending games with my dad.
Why are you a fan? Because you love the logo?
Seriously man, I totally respect the fans point of view. Obviously nobody wants to keep the name because they hate Native Americans and love sticking it to them with the Redskins name. I also respect the point of view of Native Americans (however large or small their numbers) who think its offensive or in bad taste. I hope everybody can work something out.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:08 am
by riggofan
Pretty interesting piece on what it would mean (or not mean) financially to Snyder to change the name:
We in the sports world like to simplify complicated economic issues, and so goes a question I've heard from readers and admittedly wondered myself: Why would a capitalist such as Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder oppose changing his team's name when he could make a ton of money from merchandise sales adorned with the new brand?
The quick answer: Because he probably can't, at least not in the short term. A poke through the NFL's labyrinth of financial rules and interviews with experts revealed two important factors. First, a chunk of that revenue would be shared with 30 other teams. Second, the immediate costs connected with a rebrand could extend into "the millions," according to one analyst.
The NFL's revenue-sharing system is set up for all teams but the Dallas Cowboys to share national merchandise sales. (The Cowboys opted out of the consortium.) So when you buy a Robert Griffin III jersey at your local sporting goods store, the NFL's portion of the proceeds is split equally among the remaining teams. The Redskins would receive 1/31 of it.
Teams are incentivized to set up their own points of purchase, however, and they keep the profits from those sales. So if you buy an RG III jersey from the Redskins' website, or at FedEx Field or when you visit training camp, the Redskins don't have to share their take.
The breakdown of sales between national and team-specific points of purchase is a closely held secret, but given the international appeal of the Redskins, it's safe to say that a good chunk of their total sales must be shared with the other 30 teams. As a result, the Redskins would miss out on at least a significant portion of whatever uptick a new name would drive.
And in the bigger picture, the experts I spoke with weren't certain of our basic premise: That a name change would drive massive sales of merchandise.
"It really depends on how the change is perceived," said David Carter, the director of the Sports Business Institute at USC. "Remember, fans don't like name changes. They learn to live with them. If they perceive the team has handled it well, that it was proactive and collaborative, if the community viewed it as a good decision, and they had a great marketing game plan and messaging, if they went that route, it could be a success."
Mark Conrad, the director of the sports business specialization at Fordham's Gabelli School of Business, said the name change could be a "bonanza" if it is proactive and well executed. If it's forced, however, Redskins fans might not buy in -- literally.
"It could be a bonanza if you get the right name and process," Conrad said. "If you did it right, by yourself without a court saying it or the NFL saying it, it could bring you goodwill on a local and national level. But if the owner is smirking or growling about it, if you're effectively saying, 'I don't like this new brand but I'm forced to do it,' as opposed to saying, 'This is a creative new way to maintain the identity of the franchise,' then revenues will be impacted."
Meanwhile, Conrad said it would be difficult to provide a specific estimate on the second factor: the costs relating to a name change. The Redskins would presumably absorb all of them.
Four years ago, Michael Jordan estimated it would cost between $3 million and $10 million to revert his NBA franchise name in Charlotte back to the Hornets from the Bobcats, a change completed this summer. Generally speaking, NFL franchises are bigger businesses than those in the NBA, but using a multiplier in this case would just be a guess.
"There are just so many factors involved," Conrad said, from potential consulting fees to physical changes on owned property to legal costs. "It could be millions of dollars in the short term. That, I think, is a good estimate."
Given the unprecedented nature of an NFL name change, Carter said it is possible that the league could step in to cover some costs, reducing the drag on the Redskins' bottom line. These are all issues of short-term finances, of course. Both Conrad and Carter said the long-term matter of brand impact could be far more valuable. In an immediate sense, however, it's difficult to envision the kind of net revenue bonanza that seems intuitively obvious to those of us in the world of amateur sports economics.
I gotta think nobody would be that enthusiastic about the name change that they would be running out to buy all new gear. There would probably be a run on the OLD gear!
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:27 am
by riggofan
BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Good one.
I'm really glad to know though that Joe Gibbs isn't personally offended by the Redskins name and that it evokes nothing but good feelings for him.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:20 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
riggofan wrote:Pretty interesting piece on what it would mean (or not mean) financially to Snyder to change the name:
I see no positive way to change the name when it's only done to satisfy a small percentage of people who have a stick up their butt and too much time on their hands supported by microphone whoring politicians.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:25 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
riggofan wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:So why are you a Redskin fan then?
Because I enjoy football. Because I grew up watching and attending games with my dad.
Why are you a fan? Because you love the logo?
Seriously man, I totally respect the fans point of view. Obviously nobody wants to keep the name because they hate Native Americans and love sticking it to them with the Redskins name. I also respect the point of view of Native Americans (however large or small their numbers) who think its offensive or in bad taste. I hope everybody can work something out.
I don't get your logo question, but they are the "Washington Redskins." That is their identity. I also like the "Detroit Red Wings." Changing their name changes who they are. Neither the Las Vegas Red Wings or the Detroit Marauders would be the Detroit Red Wings.
If we changed it to the Washington Braves then we can keep the same identity and as a perk piss off the stick up their butt crowd. While the media doesn't point this out, notice that there is virtually no difference between the Indians who want to change Redskins and other Indian names. They poll virtually the same. The vast majority of Indians are fine with or even good with all of the names. A small minority with sticks up their butt are obsessed with being offended, and they do so at every opportunity.
As for why you are a Redskin fan, it wasn't a historical question. It was a question why you like a team you are arguing has a racist name.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:21 pm
by langleyparkjoe
If you have a problem with the name, don't support the team.. get the *bleep* out of here and I shouldn't see you at the game.
And try to stop me from saying REDSKINS
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:27 pm
by langleyparkjoe
KazooSkinsFan wrote:As for why you are a Redskin fan, it wasn't a historical question. It was a question why you like a team you are arguing has a racist name.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:55 pm
by DarthMonk
langleyparkjoe wrote:And try to stop me from saying REDSKINS
Room 101, joe. Careful, man. They're watching.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:52 am
by riggofan
KazooSkinsFan wrote:As for why you are a Redskin fan, it wasn't a historical question. It was a question why you like a team you are arguing has a racist name.
That's a fair question, man. I guess I would answer:
1) I don't think its the worst slur in the world. If it were there wouldn't be the debate there is. 2) Its not offensive to me personally. I'm a white scot/irish guy. and 3) Like most us here, I grew up with the name and never really thought about it as anything other than the name of our football team. (Then again, I also grew up playing "smear the queer" and never really gave that much thought either.)
I've written many times here that I don't care if they change the name or not. I just find most supporters' arguments for the name as whiny and childish as Harry Reid's arguments against it.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:06 am
by riggofan
langleyparkjoe wrote:If you have a problem with the name, don't support the team.. get the *bleep* out of here and I shouldn't see you at the game.
So in your book, any Native American who is offended by the name is not welcome at the game?
Nice.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:30 am
by langleyparkjoe
riggofan wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:If you have a problem with the name, don't support the team.. get the *bleep* out of here and I shouldn't see you at the game.
So in your book, any Native American who is offended by the name is not welcome at the game?
Nice.
In my book, if they were offended by the name why would they support it?
If I can't stand Dodge (for example), I wouldn't own one or even drive one.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:31 am
by langleyparkjoe
So whoever don't like it, can *bleep* off
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:34 am
by langleyparkjoe
And since you mentioned Native Americans who don't like it, what about the ones who do like the name?
They don't matter in this?
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:35 am
by langleyparkjoe
DarthMonk wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:And try to stop me from saying REDSKINS
Room 101, joe. Careful, man. They're watching.
My brutha Darth.. since when have I ever given a flying flippity flip??
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:39 am
by riggofan
langleyparkjoe wrote:So whoever don't like it, can *bleep* off
You know what though, man? At least this is an honest position to take. You're not making excuses, you're not coming up with lame defenses, and you're not whining about it. I don't have any problem with what you're saying.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:59 am
by langleyparkjoe
riggofan wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:So whoever don't like it, can *bleep* off
You know what though, man? At least this is an honest position to take. You're not making excuses, you're not coming up with lame defenses, and you're not whining about it. I don't have any problem with what you're saying.
Yea Bro, it's not my fight to make yuh know?
Growing up my entire life I've NEVER known the term to be offensive. If you say to me "Redskins", I'm thinking of the football team. However I'm not a Native American so I'll gladly leave that fight up to them.. those that oppose it, and those that embrace it.
I personally just think it's funny that a state of the USA means "Red Skins" and the Native Americans there embrace it and there's even a movie theater in that state that's called "Redskins".
If the entire USA changes all "Redskins" to something else, I'll shut up and roll with it.. but I'm STILL not going to stop calling my team the Redskins.
I don't like a certain lifestyle of people so I stay away from Dupont Circle.. I won't go there nor will I support any establishments there because to me if I do, I will feel like a big hypocrite.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:15 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
Case in point.. if u don't like it- don't support it. It is not "hurting" anyone more than when I see the self proclaimed "America's team" with a star next to it. I think it's bs so I root for them to fail.
This crap has already gone on to far- it wasn't want to be offensive hence the native American head coach we had when moving from Boston to dc and the name changed.
Many natives would be offended if it DID change!
What about the Natives who take pride in and support the name? Only 90%+ of those who were polled by a third party UN biased study..??
What gets me fired up is that the chiefs braevs and all redskin teams will be next, essentially erasing the natives from sports.. than the domino effect of Vikings raiders bucks etc following shortly after... when does it stop? When there is no nickname no mascot no logo? Root for the Washington's. Oh wait the burgundy and gold will hurt someone's eyes.. than what?
There is Waaaay to many freedoms being questioned to let this happen. People are suddenly offended because they are told they should be... even tho their grand parent weren't when it originally took place? Social media gives to many people a soap box for their time in the lime light. Changing the name can't happen by force, only by choice and Danny boy ain't gonna choose to do so.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:29 am
by KazooSkinsFan
riggofan wrote:I've written many times here that I don't care if they change the name or not. I just find most supporters' arguments for the name as whiny and childish as Harry Reid's arguments against it.
Saying the name isn't intended to offend anyone and the vast majority of Indians are not only not offended but are fine with the name is "whiny and childish." What a load. You just want to play both sides. You point to the dictionary definition and say it's racist, focus your argument on the small percent of Indians who don't like it, call us whiny and childish for defending the name. Hey guys, it's fine if I bash you, I'm OK with your position I'm bashing you for and I don't care about the name, which I'm bashing you for defending. Your position is ridiculous, just shift your alliance to the Giants. I'm guessing mythological creatures won't offend anyone, though with the PC crowd you can never be positive, they are very good at being offended.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:37 am
by KazooSkinsFan
langleyparkjoe wrote:riggofan wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:So whoever don't like it, can *bleep* off
You know what though, man? At least this is an honest position to take. You're not making excuses, you're not coming up with lame defenses, and you're not whining about it. I don't have any problem with what you're saying.
Yea Bro, it's not my fight to make yuh know?
Growing up my entire life I've NEVER known the term to be offensive. If you say to me "Redskins", I'm thinking of the football team. However I'm not a Native American so I'll gladly leave that fight up to them.. those that oppose it, and those that embrace it.
I personally just think it's funny that a state of the USA means "Red Skins" and the Native Americans there embrace it and there's even a movie theater in that state that's called "Redskins".
If the entire USA changes all "Redskins" to something else, I'll shut up and roll with it.. but I'm STILL not going to stop calling my team the Redskins.
I don't like a certain lifestyle of people so I stay away from Dupont Circle.. I won't go there nor will I support any establishments there because to me if I do, I will feel like a big hypocrite.
There are also multiple Indian schools that use the name "Redskins" as their mascot.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:29 pm
by riggofan
KazooSkinsFan wrote:riggofan wrote:I've written many times here that I don't care if they change the name or not. I just find most supporters' arguments for the name as whiny and childish as Harry Reid's arguments against it.
Saying the name isn't intended to offend anyone and the vast majority of Indians are not only not offended but are fine with the name is "whiny and childish." What a load. You just want to play both sides. You point to the dictionary definition and say it's racist, focus your argument on the small percent of Indians who don't like it, call us whiny and childish for defending the name. Hey guys, it's fine if I bash you, I'm OK with your position I'm bashing you for and I don't care about the name, which I'm bashing you for defending. Your position is ridiculous, just shift your alliance to the Giants. I'm guessing mythological creatures won't offend anyone, though with the PC crowd you can never be positive, they are very good at being offended.
yawn.
Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:47 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
riggofan wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:riggofan wrote:I've written many times here that I don't care if they change the name or not. I just find most supporters' arguments for the name as whiny and childish as Harry Reid's arguments against it.
Saying the name isn't intended to offend anyone and the vast majority of Indians are not only not offended but are fine with the name is "whiny and childish." What a load. You just want to play both sides. You point to the dictionary definition and say it's racist, focus your argument on the small percent of Indians who don't like it, call us whiny and childish for defending the name. Hey guys, it's fine if I bash you, I'm OK with your position I'm bashing you for and I don't care about the name, which I'm bashing you for defending. Your position is ridiculous, just shift your alliance to the Giants. I'm guessing mythological creatures won't offend anyone, though with the PC crowd you can never be positive, they are very good at being offended.
yawn.
At least the PC crowd commits to a position, they don't call us whiny and childish while saying they aren't actually bothered by the name but it's offensive and a racial slur...