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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:24 pm
by StorminMormon86
riggofan wrote:StorminMormon86 wrote:I get what you're saying and I agree for the most part. Griffin played medicore to sub-par in the majority of the games this year. But when he played well (against Chargers, Vikings, Giants) why were there no posts about how it should be expected because those teams defenses suck? It was all about Griffin coming back to his old self. Cousins has a good game and it's just because the defense sucked.
Well, the Chargers just beat the Broncos didn't they? I'm not really sure how bad their defense sucks either.
I hear what you're saying though, I'm just not sure I agree that there has been a lot of RGIII rah rah stuff. Those were bad losses to the Vikings and Giants. I don't remember people pointing out how great RGIII played in either game to be honest.
I didn't mean solely on this message board, but pretty much all over other ones and comment sections across different websites.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:25 pm
by riggofan
Wow. I forgot RGIII threw for three TDs and 300 yards against the Vikings. That would have been as good as Kirk Cousins if he'd just tossed a couple picks and fumbled at least once...
Kidding!!!
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:26 pm
by riggofan
StorminMormon86 wrote:I didn't mean solely on this message board, but pretty much all over other ones and comment sections across different websites.
Gotcha. I think I said this before, but I really believe this game against the Cowboys will be a great test for Cousins and a much better game to compare the two QBs for whatever that is worth.
And personally I'm rooting for KC big time on Sunday even if it means we have more QB controversy to listen to for another week!!!
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:45 pm
by Kilmer72
Shanahan also said that Robert Griffin III is “clearly” the team’s starting quarterback and that no one should get “carried away” by Cousins’ 381 passing yards and three touchdowns on Sunday.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... arterback/
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:07 pm
by markshark84
Which MS followed up this gesture:
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:20 pm
by Countertrey
DarthMonk wrote:oj wrote:Countertrey wrote:The comparison is not accurate...
Cousins came to the Redskins as a polished pro-style quarterback. He's been developed as a pocket passer for 10 years.
Where is the 10year professional experience?
Straw man. Questioning a claim that was never made.
I'm guessing the 10 years of development as a pocket passer refers to 4 in high school, 4 in college, and 2 as a pro.
Thanks, DM, for actually putting in the minimal effort to actually read... and understand... the very simple concepts that I put forward in my post. Clearly, someone else doesn't intend to be taken seriously.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:37 pm
by Bishop Hammer
SkinsJock wrote:I'm glad we're seeing such good play from Cousins and I really do not think that we're going to trade him - not even for a 1st round pick
having a really good back up QB is a good thing and he's here
NOTHING is guaranteed but all the guys that know anything about this game think that Robert is a franchise QB
Cousins at this time is showing that he's a good NFL QB and given Robert's slow progress in developing into a future great QB - we should keep Cousins
I don't understand why it's such a big deal anyway - Cousins and Griffin are here and we're going to try and help them BOTH become better than they are now
Some may think that Cousins is the better QB - right now I'd say he is but there are some of us that think that Robert is a very special talent and future great QB
no big deal - they're both here
Nothing wrong with having two good QBs on the team IMO. Whenever a controversy starts I've found the perfect solution to solve everyones problems...put butter on your Pop-Tarts! If you haven't then I think you should.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evQnDvU4 ... ata_player
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:16 am
by StorminMormon86
According to
ey, he says whenever Mike downplays something it's really a huge deal in his mind.
ey believes that Mike downplaying Kirk's performance was a way to deflect away from a qb controversy, but in Mike's mind he knows there's going to be one going forward.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:38 am
by SkinsJock
StorminMormon86 wrote:Kilmer72 wrote:Shanahan also said that Robert Griffin III is clearly the team’s starting quarterback and that no one should get “carried away” by Cousins’ 381 passing yards and three touchdowns on Sunday.
According to Co0ley, he says whenever Mike downplays something it's really a huge deal in his mind. Chris believes that Mike downplaying Kirk's performance was a way to deflect away from a qb controversy, but in Mike's mind he knows there's going to be one going forward.
I don't think there's a doubt in anyone's mind that Robert will be the starting QB - there may be some fans that think that Kirk will be the starting QB but that means squat
Robert will have to have a really bad off season and TC for that to happen and that is NOT happening - both of these QBs are good and want to get better
and they both will
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:39 pm
by RayNAustin
Sunday's game was awefully revealing, and is causing me to rethink my opinion just a bit. The fumble was a breakdown by the oline, and can happen to any QB. The two picks were poor decisions-throws, but this was Cousins first action since last year, and only his second start. In two starts, he's got over 700 yards and 6 td's ...albeit against losing teams. Furthermore, he was forced into a 14 - 0 early hole, on the road. That is a tough spot, and I think by total measure, he had as good of a performance as anyone dare expect under the circumstances.
One of the points that cannot be lost here is that while the line no doubt has issues, Kirk's ability to complete several downfield plays suggest they aren't as bad as they have looked with Robert in there ... lending credence to those who were saying that a lot of the problem was Robert's slow reads, and inability to get the ball out of his hands, and a bit of happy feet.
I think it would be a disastrous mistake at this point to trade Cousins, because rg3 has done nothing this year to solidify his annointment as the indisputable long term answer. He may be, but the jury is still out.
If you ignore what was given up for RG3, and simply measure performance as a traditional drop back QB, Cousins has a definite edge. It's too risky and speculative to place upside potential ahead of performance and production.
The real issue at hand here is that should Cousins actually beat out Robert for the starting job, RG3 will instantly become the most disastrous trade decision the Redskins have ever made. Is anyone in the driver seat willing to bite that bullet? I don't think so. At least not anytime soon .... that would only happen in an extreme circumstance.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:17 pm
by Deadskins
RayNAustin wrote:The real issue at hand here is that should Cousins actually beat out Robert for the starting job, RG3 will instantly become the most disastrous trade decision the Redskins have ever made. Is anyone in the driver seat willing to bite that bullet? I don't think so. At least not anytime soon .... that would only happen in an extreme circumstance.
A HC change would be that extreme circumstance. But I don't agree that the RG3 deal would instantly become the worst because we could surely get good value back in a trade.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:44 pm
by gushogs
After last week's media hoopla and going bezerk on Sunday after the Skins L, I was trying to think about the Skins, past, present and future with a clear mind, but I just simply cann't.
In this particular topic, I think Kirk should not be traded.
HaiL,
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:10 pm
by Countertrey
RayNAustin wrote:Sunday's game was awefully revealing, and is causing me to rethink my opinion just a bit. The fumble was a breakdown by the oline, and can happen to any QB. The two picks were poor decisions-throws, but this was Cousins first action since last year, and only his second start
Actually, the picks were GREAT decisions... but lousy throws... the picks were a failure of technique... but not of mental process...
This only speaks to my point that Cousins is a fundamentally very solid pro-style quarterback, with deceptive physical skills, and a pretty darned strong arm.
He will improve... but I still believe that he's a lot closer to his (very good to excellent, probably Pro Bowl calliber) ceiling, than Bob, who has farther to go... but has the potential... the physical tools, the discipline, and the sharp intellect.. to be one of the best ever.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:30 pm
by Kilmer72
All it takes is one awe sh@t to wipe out all those atta boys. How quickly some forget.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:15 am
by StorminMormon86
I don't understand how after two games Cousins is approaching his ceiling...for all we know he could be just a flash in the pan and suck (highly doubtful based off of his two starting performances), but then again his ceiling could be much, much higher than we're giving him credit for.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:35 am
by Irn-Bru
Looks like most people are talking sense in the thread, which is good.
I love Cousins. Love him. But we should recognize that this was (a) one game against (b) a very bad defense where (c) he still made a few bad decisions. On the whole, he had a great game, of course. But those qualifiers are just reason to hold off on the "Start Cousins in 2014" line of thought.
IMHO, Griffin's deep ball and middle-range throws had just as much accuracy last year, and probably more, than what we saw from Cousins on Sunday. Let's not forget that he was a threat as a passer in 2012 at least as much as he was a running threat. Yes, that hasn't been there this year, except in rare flashes. It sucks. But I remain optimistic for 2014 and beyond. I completely agree with those who are saying he still could become the best we've ever seen in burgundy and gold.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:52 am
by Chris Luva Luva
Since FFA said people are being sensible in this thread, I'll throw in some information. I dont have time to comb thru this thread to see if this has been mentioned or not.
According to this article (
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... rk-cousins), it took Kirk 3.3 seconds to get one of his passes off, others it took less than two seconds. In that time span, the pocket was clean and he wasn't hit. I bring that up because Kirk operated under center, where Robert operates from the Pistol. According to
ey and the laws of reality, RGIII has to take his eyes off of the defense when receiving the snap from the Pistol. That's time taken away from reading the defense, and making his progressions. This is a game of seconds, inches, centimeters, fractions of a second. It's not surprising that this SMALL (in terms of length/time) aspect of his game could have huge consequences on the entire offense. RGIII's problems this year are layered, it's not really a bad thing because they can all be fixed. Fixing one or two problems will have a ripple effect.
It actually makes me feel better. It's not just magic, it's not actions that we can't understand as laymen. We, if we choose to take the time can understand what the real issues are. It provides a roadmap and a tangigle sense of potential progression.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:48 pm
by SkinsJock
WOW - now that's ^^^ a great post …
Robert is incredibly talented in the key areas - he's VERY fast, he's got a VERY strong arm and he's VERY bright/intelligent
he just needs to be coached up and he needs to really buy into what the coaches are trying to help him with
He's certainly not lazy or distracted by what is happening around him - he just needs to apply himself better and trust the guys that are helping him
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:03 pm
by OldSchool
Got a choice to make here option 1 or option 2.
Option 1:
PRO: Supremely athletic before injury and is mending. Very strong arm, able to scramble and run to extend plays and is a feared take it to the house running thread when healthy. Was able to turn NFL games into backyard style games during the second half of the 2012 season and merchandise sales were tremendous.
CONS: A diva who is hard to coach and manage and has undermined team unity. Has had major accuracy problems this season perhaps due his injury. His absolute lack of pocket passing skills have been fully exposed this season and efforts to develop basic pocket passing skills have not produced results thus far. Will need to develop the technique, rapid analysis and decision making ability to become a pocket passer to sustain an NFL career, the early returns on efforts to develop these skills are not encouraging.
Option 2:
PRO: Quality college pro style quarterback who has flashed NFL level skills in very limited action. Off the chart intangibles and leadership, very accurate analysis and decisive decision maker despite limited experience. Confident but humble team player and supportive leader. Can throw on the move and move well in the pocket, limited running ability. Average NFL arm strength with good accuracy. Had two fine deep throws in last start. Has thrown 3 interceptions in his two NFL starts with over 700 yards and 6 touchdowns. Adjusts the protection and releases quickly so he doesn't get sacked much.
CON: Very limited data due to only 2 starts in two seasons. Three interceptions in two starts, only average NFL arm strength. Not a running threat.
Summary:
Option 2 looks much more effective at the NFL level in his 2 starts than Option 1 has looked over his 26 NFL starts. Option 2 will never become a run threat or a great scrambler but he operates very quickly and effective in the pocket with quick accurate decisions and good short, medium and deep passes. His two long TD throws in his second start were the best deep threat passes of the entire season. Option 2 needs more opportunities and coaching to see if he can eliminate the interceptions and consistently deliver his otherwise high level performances.
Option 1 has special and unique athletic gifts but until he becomes an effective NFL pocket passer he will remain a hindrance to the team. His college option style game is not sustainable over an 19 to 20 game NFL season as the team learned in 2012 and developing him into a pocket passer is a major project judging from the lack of improvement during his 13 starts in 2013. The 2013 season was sacrificed to rehabilitation of Option 1 and he did not progress.
Recommendation:
Start Option 2 in the remaining 2 games. If he continues to perform well announce that there will be an open competition for the starting job in 2014. Use draft picks to enhance pocket style offense and improve the defense. If Option 1 throws a fit tell him he can use his off season to prepare to win the job or enhance his trade value but the Redskins are going to play the QB that gives them the best chance to win going forward and it is unclear whether that is Option 1 or Option 2 and he needs to shut his mouth and man up for the competition.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:23 pm
by riggofan
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:39 pm
by UK Skins Fan
Sometimes, I read posts on here that convince me to experiment with mind altering drugs.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:13 pm
by PulpExposure
Option 1: Ignore the troll.
Option 2: Engage the troll.
Anyone who selects option 2 will be murderfied.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:19 pm
by Irn-Bru
PulpExposure wrote:Option 1: Ignore the troll.
Option 2: Engage the troll.
Anyone who selects option 2 will be murderfied.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:50 pm
by riggofan
PulpExposure wrote:Option 1: Ignore the troll.
Option 2: Engage the troll.
Anyone who selects option 2 will be murderfied.
I limited myself to an eyeroll. Hope that spares me murderfication.
Re: Cousins Is Just Better...
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:55 pm
by OldSchool
What is about posters on this board and personal attacks? I get it that many of you are deeply emotionally invested in Griffin but the title of this thread is "Cousins Is Just Better" so ignoring the topic is easy. If you like what we've gotten from Griffin and are excited at the prospect of more good for you, I am not and I don't think he's going get much better any time soon, at least not in the pocket.
Looks to me Shannahan wants to check out Cousins also, I am not buying the rest Robert rationale, I think Shannahan is embarrassed by Griffin's lack of progress. Shannahan might also be tired of dealing with Griffin and wants to finish out the year without having dealing with Griffin if he thinks he is going to be fired. Whatever his motivation I think this is long overdue, even if Cousins comes up short in replacing Griffin I think Griffin will benefit from watching Cousins make the offense work and be motivated to listen and learn.
