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Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:26 am
by riggofan
ACW wrote:riggofan wrote:I don't really understand what people believe makes him a "dirty" player. He's a safety who likes to hit. How is that different from Laron Landry? Or Sean Taylor?
Like it or not, the rules have changed. And if you look at two of Sean's hits (the one on Moorman and the block against the Lions) he led with this shoulder.
[/quote]
I'm not debating the rules at all. They are what they are. My question was why people are so adamant that he is a "dirty" player.
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:32 am
by riggofan
Countertrey wrote:You don't make that "decision in the space of two or three seconds"... you SHOULD practice like you play... that is when you make the decision... and, I will GUARANTEE you... he does NOT tackle like that in practice.
That's a fair point, but can you honestly say that ANYBODY on this team (or any other) tackles in practice like they do in games?
And I just flat out disagree with you about the "2-3 seconds". Its not just about the defensive player. There are 21 other players moving around at incredible speed when a play is occurring. I don't care how much you practice, you can't plan EXACTLY how you're going to move and react with all of that going on. We see it every single week with defensive players drawing flags on hits, and I guarantee YOU that they're not all dirty players out to hurt people or dumb players who don't care about penalties.
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:41 am
by riggofan
SkinsJock wrote:IMO the refs see film and are more likely to throw flags at players that have shown a propensity to play in a way that could be dangerous - Suh and Merriwether would be high on that list
hah. The funny part about that is how much tape can there be on him? The guy is always out injured!!
Seriously though, he doesn't really have much choice. He's going to have to work on tackling more v. hitting, or he's not going to be in the league.
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:49 am
by langleyparkjoe
OldSchool and ButterD.. ya'll happy now?
Noticed ya'll neva replied in the thread again.. would've thought ya'll had the Anti-Merriwether parade down GA Avenue by now.
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:17 am
by Kilmer72
langleyparkjoe wrote:OldSchool and ButterD.. ya'll happy now?
Noticed ya'll neva replied in the thread again.. would've thought ya'll had the Anti-Merriwether parade down GA Avenue by now.
Lol almost. Should be super easy to find someone that knows how to play safety right?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:21 pm
by markshark84
yupchagee wrote:2 points:
It isn't 2-3 seconds, it's less than 1.
If Merriweather deserves a suspension,why is Suh still in the league?
I think that Merriweather was suspended because he has gone helmet to helmet pretty consistently this year. He's even had a couple close ones that weren't flagged. He's already given (I believe) 2 players and himself concussions this year. From a pro-NFL side, you could say the suspension was given in order to protect the players, but also HIMSELF from further damage/concussions --- that said, we all know what the NFL truly cares about......
I personally do NOT think a suspension was necessary --- as I personally thought all of his hits but 1 have been fine. That said, Merriweather has already been fined $200k over the course of his career for helmet to helmet hits. I think the NFL thought the fines weren't getting thru to him ---- and I personally have to agree on that. So, if the NFL truly thinks what he has been doing is against league policy, then they really didn't have another choice. Then again, if it were up to me and afraid of all the pending litigation resulting from the NFL's history of liassez-faire attitudes towards concussions, I would have suspended him 1 game, knowing it would get reversed. If it happened again, I would have done the 2.
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:35 pm
by SkinsJock
markshark84 wrote:I think that Merriweather was suspended because he has gone helmet to helmet pretty consistently this year. He's even had a couple close ones that weren't flagged. He's already given (I believe) 2 players and himself concussions this year. From a pro-NFL side, you could say the suspension was given in order to protect the players, but also HIMSELF from further damage/concussions --- that said, we all know what the NFL truly cares about......
I personally do NOT think a suspension was necessary --- as I personally thought all of his hits but 1 have been fine. That said, Merriweather has already been fined $200k over the course of his career for helmet to helmet hits. I think the NFL thought the fines weren't getting thru to him ---- and I personally have to agree on that. So, if the NFL truly thinks what he has been doing is against league policy, then they really didn't have another choice. Then again, if it were up to me and afraid of all the pending litigation resulting from the NFL's history of liassez-faire attitudes towards concussions, I would have suspended him 1 game, knowing it would get reversed. If it happened again, I would have done the 2.
really?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:46 pm
by riggofan
SkinsJock wrote:markshark84 wrote:I think that Merriweather was suspended because he has gone helmet to helmet pretty consistently this year. He's even had a couple close ones that weren't flagged. He's already given (I believe) 2 players and himself concussions this year. From a pro-NFL side, you could say the suspension was given in order to protect the players, but also HIMSELF from further damage/concussions --- that said, we all know what the NFL truly cares about......
I personally do NOT think a suspension was necessary --- as I personally thought all of his hits but 1 have been fine. That said, Merriweather has already been fined $200k over the course of his career for helmet to helmet hits. I think the NFL thought the fines weren't getting thru to him ---- and I personally have to agree on that. So, if the NFL truly thinks what he has been doing is against league policy, then they really didn't have another choice. Then again, if it were up to me and afraid of all the pending litigation resulting from the NFL's history of liassez-faire attitudes towards concussions, I would have suspended him 1 game, knowing it would get reversed. If it happened again, I would have done the 2.
really?
I don't know about all of his hits, but I saw the hit on Alshon Jeffrey by Merriweather again on tv last night and thought it was kind of iffy, so I watched it again this morning. The problem with the hit wasn't that he was leading with his helmet, trying to spear the guy or anything. He actually hits him with his shoulder. The problem with the hit is that he's tackling high. So he hits with his shoulder and then gets helmet to helmet.
Just my 2 cents, but I'm not sure that "really?shock" and "lmao" really add much to the conversation.
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:08 pm
by SkinsJock
it really does not matter what we all think about the way Meriweather tackles
he KNOWS the Refs are watching him more carefully and if they see anything close to the helmet (they do not have the benefit of slow motion) they are going to call a foul
they will only suspend him, if in their reviews, they can determine he made a tackle that, in their judgement, is not safe
Meriweather seems to make most of his tackles in a way that they seem to be very close to helmet to helmet
he's hurting the defense by continuing to do this - the refs are going to err on the safe side and penalize him
Meriweather is not a dirty player but he's most certainly not very intelligent and that may be because he's taken too many hits to his head
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:29 pm
by Countertrey
riggofan wrote:ACW wrote:riggofan wrote:I don't really understand what people believe makes him a "dirty" player. He's a safety who likes to hit. How is that different from Laron Landry? Or Sean Taylor?
Like it or not, the rules have changed. And if you look at two of Sean's hits (the one on Moorman and the block against the Lions) he led with this shoulder.
I'm not debating the rules at all. They are what they are.
My question was why people are so adamant that he is a "dirty" player.
I've looked through the thread... and see ONE... count them... ONE instance in which someone has suggested that he is a dirty player. I would disagree, btw. Merrifield is certainly hard nosed... perhaps "old-school" would work as well...
Several has suggested that he is, perhaps, stupid... Neither this generalization, nor yours that "people" are calling him dirty, help this discussion. Even if they do, that relates to their ignorance, not to the facts. If they want to consider him "dirty", then, so what? Ignore their opinion.
This is purely about his obvious refusal to comply with the rules, and the fact that his obstinence is resulting in calls that would not be made if others made the same hit.
Laron Landry, a much bigger hitter than Merriman, has learned to play within these rules. That certainly suggest that Merriman could, as well, if properly motivated. To this point, it seems that he has not been so motivated. If he expects to continue to play... it's time to learn.
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:47 pm
by Countertrey
markshark84 wrote:yupchagee wrote:2 points:
It isn't 2-3 seconds, it's less than 1.
If Merriweather deserves a suspension,why is Suh still in the league?
I think that Merriweather was suspended because he has gone helmet to helmet pretty consistently this year. He's even had a couple close ones that weren't flagged. He's already given (I believe) 2 players and himself concussions this year. From a pro-NFL side, you could say the suspension was given in order to protect the players, but also HIMSELF from further damage/concussions --- that said, we all know what the NFL truly cares about......
I personally do NOT think a suspension was necessary --- as I personally thought all of his hits but 1 have been fine. That said, Merriweather has already been fined $200k over the course of his career for helmet to helmet hits. I think the NFL thought the fines weren't getting thru to him ---- and I personally have to agree on that. So, if the NFL truly thinks what he has been doing is against league policy, then they really didn't have another choice. Then again, if it were up to me and afraid of all the pending litigation resulting from the NFL's history of liassez-faire attitudes towards concussions, I would have suspended him 1 game, knowing it would get reversed. If it happened again, I would have done the 2.
Good to know exactly where you stand on this... umm... wait... what?
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:49 pm
by markshark84
SkinsJock wrote:markshark84 wrote:I think that Merriweather was suspended because he has gone helmet to helmet pretty consistently this year. He's even had a couple close ones that weren't flagged. He's already given (I believe) 2 players and himself concussions this year. From a pro-NFL side, you could say the suspension was given in order to protect the players, but also HIMSELF from further damage/concussions --- that said, we all know what the NFL truly cares about......
I personally do NOT think a suspension was necessary --- as I personally thought all of his hits but 1 have been fine. That said, Merriweather has already been fined $200k over the course of his career for helmet to helmet hits. I think the NFL thought the fines weren't getting thru to him ---- and I personally have to agree on that. So, if the NFL truly thinks what he has been doing is against league policy, then they really didn't have another choice. Then again, if it were up to me and afraid of all the pending litigation resulting from the NFL's history of liassez-faire attitudes towards concussions, I would have suspended him 1 game, knowing it would get reversed. If it happened again, I would have done the 2.
really?
Not sure what's so funny. I gave my opinion as a fan, then I offered what I would think was the opinion of the commissioner's office and what I would have done as commish given the legality of the situation. Regardless, either way my result was that he wouldn't have been suspended --- do you not get that??? Do you think I'm contradicting myself????
To put another way ------- As a fan I think the hits are fine. As a fan, I think the league is getting soft. Now ---- If I were commisioner, I would be worried that we need to set proper precident and maintain this consistent precident given the impending litigation related to the NFL's hisroty of turning the other way when it comes to head injuries. Therefore as commish, I would have to suspend him as evidence of a "hard stance" ---- knowing it would be overturned by a governing body. That way, it appears I am tough on preventing head injuries ---- all while getting the outcome I wished for initially.
Regardless, do you disagree in some way? Such an insightful post. At least countertrey made me understand why he was replying. Great contribution
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:24 pm
by riggofan
Countertrey wrote:riggofan wrote:ACW wrote:riggofan wrote:I don't really understand what people believe makes him a "dirty" player. He's a safety who likes to hit. How is that different from Laron Landry? Or Sean Taylor?
Like it or not, the rules have changed. And if you look at two of Sean's hits (the one on Moorman and the block against the Lions) he led with this shoulder.
I'm not debating the rules at all. They are what they are.
My question was why people are so adamant that he is a "dirty" player.
I've looked through the thread... and see ONE... count them... ONE instance in which someone has suggested that he is a dirty player. I would disagree, btw. Merrifield is certainly hard nosed... perhaps "old-school" would work as well...
From this thread:
"I like physical football as much as the next guy but Suh's and Merriweather's in the league need to be sanction much harder than they are to eliminate their dirty play."
"this guy is not a hard player, he's a dirty player"
I don't think I'm setting up any straw men or anything. The talk about Brandon being dirty has been out there all week on the radio and tv.
https://twitter.com/search?q=merriweath ... y&src=typd
WTOP: Is Is the #Redskins Brandon Merriweather a dirty player? Let us know
lol.
Anyway, I completely agree with you about Merriweather needing to change the way he's tackling if he wants to stick around.
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:50 am
by SkinsJock
I agree with Countertrey and riggofan
my only issue with Meriweather is that he has not seemed to have made much of an effort to play hard and to hit as hard as he can WITHIN the guidelines of what the NFL officials want
I think he deserves to be suspended for continuing to make hits that he think are within the NFL guidelines but are still too aggressive UNDER THE GUIDELINES that the refs will allow
Today's NFL is not allowing a lot of 'stuff' that they used to allow
- if you are a player, that the refs think, REFUSES to play within the rules, you will be targeted/penalized
- if you constantly show up, on film, as making no effort to change the way you play, or, if you make out you're not doing anything wrong, even though it's clearly against the NFL's guidelines, YOU WILL BE SUSPENDED
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:53 am
by SkinsJock
Countertrey wrote:markshark84 wrote:yupchagee wrote:2 points:
It isn't 2-3 seconds, it's less than 1.
If Merriweather deserves a suspension,why is Suh still in the league?
I think that Merriweather was suspended because he has gone helmet to helmet pretty consistently this year. He's even had a couple close ones that weren't flagged. He's already given (I believe) 2 players and himself concussions this year. From a pro-NFL side, you could say the suspension was given in order to protect the players, but also HIMSELF from further damage/concussions --- that said, we all know what the NFL truly cares about......
I personally do NOT think a suspension was necessary --- as I personally thought all of his hits but 1 have been fine. That said, Merriweather has already been fined $200k over the course of his career for helmet to helmet hits. I think the NFL thought the fines weren't getting thru to him ---- and I personally have to agree on that. So, if the NFL truly thinks what he has been doing is against league policy, then they really didn't have another choice. Then again, if it were up to me and afraid of all the pending litigation resulting from the NFL's history of liassez-faire attitudes towards concussions, I would have suspended him 1 game, knowing it would get reversed. If it happened again, I would have done the 2.
Good to know exactly where you stand on this... umm... wait... what?
- my thoughts exactly - thanks Countertrey
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:29 am
by skinsfan#33
When everyone lists the concussions that Merriweather has caused why do they keep listing his? The hit that lead to his concussion should have been a flag on Starks for the brand new foul of leading with the crown of his helmet and Starks should have need fined. Merriweather's head wansn't going to be anywhere near Starks' has until Starks intentionally lowered his head and spears BM with the crown of his helmet. It was a text book example of a play that should have drawn a 15 flag on Starks!
Yes, Merriweather is guilty of a lot, but not his own concussion.
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:38 am
by SkinsJock
I did say that Meriweather is a dirty player - I take that back - he is hitting players in a way that looks 'dirty' - that's the way he plays and I'm not sure he thinks it's wrong
plus
he has not seemed to have made much of an effort to 'change'
someone needs to help him or it's going to continue to be a big problem
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:27 pm
by emoses14
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones:
Redskins safety Brandon Meriweather is back at practice after serving his one-game suspension for, among other things, a late hit on Bears receiver Brandon Marshall. Marshall had strong words for Meriweather after the game. Today, Meriweather fires right back, and goes personal.
After the game in which Meriweather drew two personal fouls for leading with his helmet, Marshall said this:
"Guys like that really don’t understand that there is life after football. I respect the league trying to better our game and guys like that, maybe he needs to get suspended or taken out of the game completely."
And here's Meriweather today:
"Listen, everybody’s got their opinion of things, you know. Everybody’s got their opinion. He feels like, you know, I need to be kicked out of the league. I feel like, people who beat their girlfriends should be kicked out of the league too.
"You tell me who you’d rather have: Somebody who plays aggressive on the field, or somebody who beats up their girlfriend. Everybody’s got their opinion. That’s mine. He’s got his."
In 2009, Marshall was found not guilty of two counts of simple battery stemming from a March 2008 incident with then-girlfriend Rasheedah Watley, and had been arrested but not charged for a separate incident. Earlier this year, a lawsuit brought by Watley alleging abuse was dismissed.
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:32 pm
by Irn-Bru
Holy . . .
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:22 pm
by riggofan
More:
“The case I made was I didn’t use my head in either one of the hits,” Meriweather said during the team’s open locker room session. “I know everybody is looking at the tape and are saying, ‘Oh, he’s a dirty player. He’s this, he’s that,’ which I get. But if anyone goes looks at the tape, I didn’t use my head in either hit, and I’m moving on from it.”
The league initially suspended Meriweather for two games, but an appeal got the punishment cut in half. Meriweather’s appeal was heard Wednesday by former NFL coach Ted Cottrell, one of two appeals officers jointly appointed by the league and players’ union to resolve cases involving discipline for on-field matters.
Meriweather’s suspension was without pay, and he forfeited $70,588 of his $1.2 million salary for this season. Meriweather, who is set to come back for this weekend’s home game against the San Diego Chargers, had said last week he was adjusting to the updated rules regarding hitting but that would need to make further modifications given the latest situation.
“To be honest, you’ve just got to go low now,” he said. “You’ve got to end people’s career. You’ve got to tear people’s ACLs and mess up people’s knees now. You can’t hit them [that] way, you can’t hit them high anymore. You’ve just got to go low.”
He's not the only defensive player making that argument about tacking low v. tackling high.
Check out this article from a few weeks back when Dustin Keller had his knee destroyed:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... 14887.htmlIn many ways, they are in a no-win situation. They can't go high, for fear of hitting a receiver just wrong in a split-second decision and getting fined. But if they go low, as Swearinger did on Keller, they can also get blamed for a dirty hit if an injury occurs, which happened with Keller.
And his comment about not leading with his helmet was exactly what I saw when I watched those replays. He lead with his shoulder, but because he's hitting high, there is some helmet contact.
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:39 pm
by SkinsJock
The fact remains that if during a tackle the defender's helmet makes contact with the other player he is most likely going to get both penalized, and, if he's a repeat offender, fined and suspended
I understand that the defender is not trying to play dirty or to hurt the other player
not all rules are 'good' rules but they are the rules ... if you cannot play the game within the guidelines imposed by the NFL you will most likely be hurting your team
Meriweather looks to me like he's not really making a big effort to play within the guidelines as set by the NFL ... maybe that will happen ... hopefully soon
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:53 pm
by Kilmer72
I hope he turns it around too Skinjock because he is the only real starting safety we have. His athleticism enables the rest of the guys to take more chances (gamble) because of his speed.
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:12 pm
by ACW
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:14 pm
by SkinsJock
Kilmer72 wrote:I hope he turns it around too Skinjock because he is the only real starting safety we have. His athleticism enables the rest of the guys to take more chances (gamble) because of his speed.
That's the frustrating part about this - it would not be as big a deal if it was just a 'normal' player - Meriweather can be an impact player on defense but not if he's not on the field
Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:47 pm
by riggofan
You're right! Shoulder first, middle of the body. I'm a little surprised this didn't draw the "defenseless receiver" flag though. Did it???
