The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsJock wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I am not advocating we wait until after the bye to start Griff but over the off season it occasionally surfaced as a possible timetable. Anyway, I was thinking about the possibility and, if it actually happened, what the outcomes could be. Here are a few I came up with.

Imagine Cousins going 3-1 with a win vs. the Eags, a tough loss at Green Bay, a win vs. the Lions, and a win at Oakland. Further imagine a 4 game stat line of 1,000 yards, 68.8% completion rate (his stat last year, #2 in NFL), 8 TDs, 2 picks, and a 101.6 QB rating (his stat last year, #5 in NFL behind Griff).

Now imagine the Dallas game during bye week. It's Griff's 1st start and we are going to Dallas. Instead of them laying in wait to avenge Turkey Day, we are breathing fire in anticipation of Griff's debut. Then Griff lights 'em up in "Griff's House" just like last year.

1 Mike would certainly have bolstered his position as Top Dog.

2 Mike would have showcased Cousins giving the league 4 more chances to see him and essentially cementing his status as a guy well worth trading for.

3 Mike's status as a genius goes through the roof. He has gotten the whole city and the team extra rabid for this game and the Griffskins have slain them. Cousins is even more valuable and pretty darn happy. We are pumped and off to the races.

4 Oh, here's a good one - Mike would have given Griff 5 extra weeks to "heal."

what on earth is to be gained by resting him?

Read the post you just quoted.

welch wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:
I agree with you basically but I also am not convinced at all that Dr Andrews, the medical staff, the coaching strafe or even RG3 himself are in any way NOT acting with extreme caution and ARE in fact ensuring that RG3 needs to be here and playing in a Redskins uniform for as long as possible

It's a fact that RG3 is an olympic caliber athlete and Sonny and Sammy were NOT - actually neither was even close to having the athleticism of RG3
as great as both were - I predict that RG3 will be a better leader

given all that - there is ZERO to be gained by holding him out

RG3 WILL NOT be playing UNTIL he's not in ANY WAY risking his future as a QB

EVERYONE concerned - medical, physical, coaches and the player have moved on from last season - it's OVER, It's history - they have all acknowledged that they have learned from that

let it go - watch him play and appreciate that players today are a lot better, a lot fitter, and medical science is amazing

I've found that athletes don't know when to stop. That was the case last season: Griffin wanted to play so Shanahan let him. Bryce Harper has not been the same since he ran into the wall in LA, but he won't take time off.

Incidentally, Baugh was a superb athlete: still holds an NFL record for punting, for many years held the record for interceptions, ran the ball as a single-wing tailback...and would have played shortstop for the Cardinals except that St Louis had an all-star named Marty Marion already there.

As Sonny (proably) said, you don't throw with your beer belly. Sonny's brain and arm were perfect until George Allen retired him. However, he limped on a sorfe ankle for a lot of his last season.

Griffin can be as strong as a Joe Jacoby, but if his knee goes, he'll be finished.

+1000

The day RG3 gets conservative on his injury is the day RG3 stops being RG3; its in the DNA of his competitive nature.

"I've found that athletes don't know when to stop." That really says it all right there.

He has yet to prove through his actions that he can & will protect himself. So far, what we've been hearing is the rehab "team" trying to "slow him down" from time to time, RG3 pushing for playing in the exhibition games, and RG3 being a smart @$$ with exaggerated "slides".

Again, I'm not necessarily doubting him, but I am skeptical and hope the man proves me wrong. So far, he sounds the same as he did last year; a hard-headed kid who greatest asset is also his great liability: his fierce competitive nature.

This is his SECOND....repeat....SECOND injury to that knee. If he wasn't hard-headed he would have learned to protect himself the FIRST time. Not saying he shouldn't run (it protects him), but rather he needs to get out of bounds/down faster and rely on his teammates the next play to scrap up that extra yard or two.

At this point, Shanny needs to establish that he's boss and if ANYONE doesn't play his way, they'll be watching their backup play.

In summary, you can't rely on an amazing competitive player to know how to scale himself back while still be effective. Only an experienced coach can teach that, and its solely that coaches responsibility to pull that player aside if that don't listen. As much as I hate to say this, if RG3 is going to be a hard-head the rest of his career I hope he hurries up and gets it out of the way for us before we end up trading Cousins in 2015. If RG3 doesn't start sliding and getting out of bounds well before he's touch, I hope Shanny makes him sit out a couple plays to watch his backup play. Its football, not democracy...Shanny is the great dictator and better start acting more like it.

riggofan wrote:Interesting update on ESPN today.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... isappoints

Quarterback Robert Griffin III (first round): Still recovering from his knee surgery. The Redskins say he’s on pace to start the opener, but more needs to be seen.

Of course, the knee brace is just for decoration.

So, when he's still wearing it in game 16, are you still going to insist it's proof that the knee is still recovering?

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I am not advocating we wait until after the bye to start Griff but over the off season it occasionally surfaced as a possible timetable. Anyway, I was thinking about the possibility and, if it actually happened, what the outcomes could be. Here are a few I came up with.

Imagine Cousins going 3-1 with a win vs. the Eags, a tough loss at Green Bay, a win vs. the Lions, and a win at Oakland. Further imagine a 4 game stat line of 1,000 yards, 68.8% completion rate (his stat last year, #2 in NFL), 8 TDs, 2 picks, and a 101.6 QB rating (his stat last year, #5 in NFL behind Griff).

Now imagine the Dallas game during bye week. It's Griff's 1st start and we are going to Dallas. Instead of them laying in wait to avenge Turkey Day, we are breathing fire in anticipation of Griff's debut. Then Griff lights 'em up in "Griff's House" just like last year.

1 Mike would certainly have bolstered his position as Top Dog.

2 Mike would have showcased Cousins giving the league 4 more chances to see him and essentially cementing his status as a guy well worth trading for.

3 Mike's status as a genius goes through the roof. He has gotten the whole city and the team extra rabid for this game and the Griffskins have slain them. Cousins is even more valuable and pretty darn happy. We are pumped and off to the races.

4 Oh, here's a good one - Mike would have given Griff 5 extra weeks to "heal."

what on earth is to be gained by resting him?

Read the post you just quoted.

the "stuff & fluff" above the points is just pure dreaming and speculation - not worth reading really

OK - point 1 is not relevant - EVERYONE, 'cept maybe you, KNOWS that Mike is the TOP DOG

2 - WRONG - Mike does not 'showcase' anyone - he's getting his team ready to play

3 - Mike is a good HC - he's not in the slightest bit interested in a title like "genius" - EVERYTHING he does is preparing HIS team to win football games - not win 'awards'

4 WHY does Griffin need 4-5 weeks to heal - he's ready to play - you don't rest players that are ready to play - man oh man - that's just dumb

am I missing something

btw - I'm not going to be surprised to see RG3 play the same way he did last season and for the offense to be very good again because of that

I do expect that he will be a lot wiser about how to play though - he will not be putting himself at risk like he did last season


I'd be very disappointed if RG3 is not even better at both running and passing than he was last season - he may not get the yards but he will use his arms AND his legs to help this offense ...

I fully expect more of the same from Mike, Kyle, RG3 and the whole offense ... only better

when you can make the Giants defense admit they had no idea what was coming - even with all the film they had before the second game, you keep doing that ...

SkinsJock wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I am not advocating we wait until after the bye to start Griff but over the off season it occasionally surfaced as a possible timetable. Anyway, I was thinking about the possibility and, if it actually happened, what the outcomes could be. Here are a few I came up with.

Imagine Cousins going 3-1 with a win vs. the Eags, a tough loss at Green Bay, a win vs. the Lions, and a win at Oakland. Further imagine a 4 game stat line of 1,000 yards, 68.8% completion rate (his stat last year, #2 in NFL), 8 TDs, 2 picks, and a 101.6 QB rating (his stat last year, #5 in NFL behind Griff).

Now imagine the Dallas game during bye week. It's Griff's 1st start and we are going to Dallas. Instead of them laying in wait to avenge Turkey Day, we are breathing fire in anticipation of Griff's debut. Then Griff lights 'em up in "Griff's House" just like last year.

1 Mike would certainly have bolstered his position as Top Dog.

2 Mike would have showcased Cousins giving the league 4 more chances to see him and essentially cementing his status as a guy well worth trading for.

3 Mike's status as a genius goes through the roof. He has gotten the whole city and the team extra rabid for this game and the Griffskins have slain them. Cousins is even more valuable and pretty darn happy. We are pumped and off to the races.

4 Oh, here's a good one - Mike would have given Griff 5 extra weeks to "heal."

what on earth is to be gained by resting him?

Read the post you just quoted.

the "stuff & fluff" above the points is just pure dreaming and speculation - not worth reading really

OK - point 1 is not relevant - EVERYONE, 'cept maybe you, KNOWS that Mike is the TOP DOG

2 - WRONG - Mike does not 'showcase' anyone - he's getting his team ready to play

3 - Mike is a good HC - he's not in the slightest bit interested in a title like "genius" - EVERYTHING he does is preparing HIS team to win football games - not win 'awards'

4 WHY does Griffin need 4-5 weeks to heal - he's ready to play - you don't rest players that are ready to play - man oh man - that's just dumb

am I missing something

Yeah, you are. Every thing actually.

now why does that ^^ not surprise me

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I am not advocating we wait until after the bye to start Griff but over the off season it occasionally surfaced as a possible timetable. Anyway, I was thinking about the possibility and, if it actually happened, what the outcomes could be. Here are a few I came up with.

Imagine Cousins going 3-1 with a win vs. the Eags, a tough loss at Green Bay, a win vs. the Lions, and a win at Oakland. Further imagine a 4 game stat line of 1,000 yards, 68.8% completion rate (his stat last year, #2 in NFL), 8 TDs, 2 picks, and a 101.6 QB rating (his stat last year, #5 in NFL behind Griff).

Now imagine the Dallas game during bye week. It's Griff's 1st start and we are going to Dallas. Instead of them laying in wait to avenge Turkey Day, we are breathing fire in anticipation of Griff's debut. Then Griff lights 'em up in "Griff's House" just like last year.

1 Mike would certainly have bolstered his position as Top Dog.

2 Mike would have showcased Cousins giving the league 4 more chances to see him and essentially cementing his status as a guy well worth trading for.

3 Mike's status as a genius goes through the roof. He has gotten the whole city and the team extra rabid for this game and the Griffskins have slain them. Cousins is even more valuable and pretty darn happy. We are pumped and off to the races.

4 Oh, here's a good one - Mike would have given Griff 5 extra weeks to "heal."

what on earth is to be gained by resting him?

Read the post you just quoted.

the "stuff & fluff" above the points is just pure dreaming and speculation - not worth reading really

OK - point 1 is not relevant - EVERYONE, 'cept maybe you, KNOWS that Mike is the TOP DOG

2 - WRONG - Mike does not 'showcase' anyone - he's getting his team ready to play

3 - Mike is a good HC - he's not in the slightest bit interested in a title like "genius" - EVERYTHING he does is preparing HIS team to win football games - not win 'awards'

4 WHY does Griffin need 4-5 weeks to heal - he's ready to play - you don't rest players that are ready to play - man oh man - that's just dumb

am I missing something

Yeah, you are. Every thing actually.

Jock may be a bit rah rah for me regarding posting about the organization and management, but I think his points in rebuttal were right on.

If RG3 isn't ready to go until after the bye, then we wait until then. But Shannahan doesn't need the shallow ego rush of proving he's the boss, he is. And we certainly don't want to play a guy for 4 weeks as an audition for trading him ... in two more years ...

SkinsJock wrote:now why does that ^^ not surprise me

Check your username. I suspect that is why.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I am not advocating we wait until after the bye to start Griff but over the off season it occasionally surfaced as a possible timetable. Anyway, I was thinking about the possibility and, if it actually happened, what the outcomes could be. Here are a few I came up with.

Imagine Cousins going 3-1 with a win vs. the Eags, a tough loss at Green Bay, a win vs. the Lions, and a win at Oakland. Further imagine a 4 game stat line of 1,000 yards, 68.8% completion rate (his stat last year, #2 in NFL), 8 TDs, 2 picks, and a 101.6 QB rating (his stat last year, #5 in NFL behind Griff).

Now imagine the Dallas game during bye week. It's Griff's 1st start and we are going to Dallas. Instead of them laying in wait to avenge Turkey Day, we are breathing fire in anticipation of Griff's debut. Then Griff lights 'em up in "Griff's House" just like last year.

1 Mike would certainly have bolstered his position as Top Dog.

2 Mike would have showcased Cousins giving the league 4 more chances to see him and essentially cementing his status as a guy well worth trading for.

3 Mike's status as a genius goes through the roof. He has gotten the whole city and the team extra rabid for this game and the Griffskins have slain them. Cousins is even more valuable and pretty darn happy. We are pumped and off to the races.

4 Oh, here's a good one - Mike would have given Griff 5 extra weeks to "heal."

what on earth is to be gained by resting him?

Read the post you just quoted.

the "stuff & fluff" above the points is just pure dreaming and speculation - not worth reading really

OK - point 1 is not relevant - EVERYONE, 'cept maybe you, KNOWS that Mike is the TOP DOG

2 - WRONG - Mike does not 'showcase' anyone - he's getting his team ready to play

3 - Mike is a good HC - he's not in the slightest bit interested in a title like "genius" - EVERYTHING he does is preparing HIS team to win football games - not win 'awards'

4 WHY does Griffin need 4-5 weeks to heal - he's ready to play - you don't rest players that are ready to play - man oh man - that's just dumb

am I missing something

Yeah, you are. Every thing actually.

Jock may be a bit rah rah for me regarding posting about the organization and management, but I think his points in rebuttal were right on.

If RG3 isn't ready to go until after the bye, then we wait until then. But Shannahan doesn't need the shallow ego rush of proving he's the boss, he is. And we certainly don't want to play a guy for 4 weeks as an audition for trading him ... in two more years ...

I'll chalk this up to sarcasm. I might as well point by point it.

1 Whether anybody recognizes Mike as top dog or not is beside the point. I said he would have bolstered his position as top dog. Can that really be denied? As an aside, I just heard Sonny Jurgensen on the radio say "Who's the boss here?"

2 Read the scenario I set up for Cousins. Now read my showcase point. I'm not suggesting Mike bench Griff in order to showcase Cousins. I'm saying if that scenario were to play out Mike would have showcased Cousins. How is that incorrect?

3 I never said Mike is interested in the genius label though he may be. Again, That is beside the point. If my scenario were to play out Mike would be lauded as a wise man.

4 This one is too easy. I simply said Mike would have given Griff five more weeks to heal. That is what we call arithmetic.

As Hogman once said, "Read slower."

you know Darth man - you're absolutely right as usual - you're just so in touch with EVERYTHING

I have just seen RG3 warm up and the ESPN piece - this kid REALLY needs to rest and heal

Mike would be an idiot to try and get him in game shape after what he's been through with the surgery and rehab - he OBVIOUSLY needs more time to heal and get in shape



I'm done here - there is nothing to discuss with anyone who is so blind as to not see what an incredible athlete this is

btw - did you hear he 'won' the strongman competition in the weight room recently - I didn't think so - you OBVIOUSLY don't keep up with that sort of information

DarthMonk wrote:I'll chalk this up to sarcasm. I might as well point by point it.

1 Whether anybody recognizes Mike as top dog or not is beside the point. I said he would have bolstered his position as top dog. Can that really be denied? As an aside, I just heard Sonny Jurgensen on the radio say "Who's the boss here?"

- I have no idea what Sonny is talking about on this. Or you. Shannahan is the boss of the team. No, it won't change anything.

2 Read the scenario I set up for Cousins. Now read my showcase point. I'm not suggesting Mike bench Griff in order to showcase Cousins. I'm saying if that scenario were to play out Mike would have showcased Cousins. How is that incorrect?

- OK, I'll agree with you on that.

3 I never said Mike is interested in the genius label though he may be. Again, That is beside the point. If my scenario were to play out Mike would be lauded as a wise man.

- Why would he be lauded as wise when he played his backup because his starter was injured? If you mean for drafting Cousins, I think he's already got that credit.

4 This one is too easy. I simply said Mike would have given Griff five more weeks to heal. That is what we call arithmetic.

- I thought you said you weren't doing it unless Griff wasn't ready? So how is this a credit to anyone? Though factually yes, it is five more weeks to heal, but I don't draw a conclusion from that.

SkinsJock wrote:Most here know that RG3's knee is not going to be "completely healed"

I think most people understand that by "completely healed," people mean it's as good as it's going to get, not like the injuries to that knee never happened.

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:Interesting update on ESPN today.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... isappoints

Quarterback Robert Griffin III (first round): Still recovering from his knee surgery. The Redskins say he’s on pace to start the opener, but more needs to be seen.

Of course, the knee brace is just for decoration.

So, when he's still wearing it in game 16, are you still going to insist it's proof that the knee is still recovering?

Its proof that his knee is not as strong as it was last year. But seriously man, feel free to believe what you want. We'll just agree to disagree.

I'd love to see a list of all of the NFL starting QBs wearing knee braces this year who aren't coming off major knee surgery. Maybe RGIII will start a trend.

SkinsJock wrote:you know Darth man - you're absolutely right as usual - you're just so in touch with EVERYTHING

I have just seen RG3 warm up and the ESPN piece - this kid REALLY needs to rest and heal

Mike would be an idiot to try and get him in game shape after what he's been through with the surgery and rehab - he OBVIOUSLY needs more time to heal and get in shape



I'm done here - there is nothing to discuss with anyone who is so blind as to not see what an incredible athlete this is

btw - did you hear he 'won' the strongman competition in the weight room recently - I didn't think so - you OBVIOUSLY don't keep up with that sort of information

I just don't understand your sarcasm and frankly rudeness towards Darth on this.

Dr. Andrews recommended RGIII not play in any preseason games. This was a medical recommendation not a coaching recommendation. So I don't know where you're getting all of your info about how ready to play RGIII is. You're either super optimistic or you're getting all of your medical updates from RGIII's twitter feed.

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:Interesting update on ESPN today.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... isappoints

Quarterback Robert Griffin III (first round): Still recovering from his knee surgery. The Redskins say he’s on pace to start the opener, but more needs to be seen.

Of course, the knee brace is just for decoration.

So, when he's still wearing it in game 16, are you still going to insist it's proof that the knee is still recovering?

Its proof that his knee is not as strong as it was last year. But seriously man, feel free to believe what you want. We'll just agree to disagree.

I'd love to see a list of all of the NFL starting QBs wearing knee braces this year who aren't coming off major knee surgery. Maybe RGIII will start a trend.

You're totally missing the point. You said his wearing the brace was an indication that his knee was not fully healed, and I said that was not necessarily true. My point is that he's wearing the brace as a precaution against reinjury, and it has no bearing on the state of his recovery. You can agree to disagree all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that your logic was flawed.

good luck with trying to bring 'logic' into this discussion

I wonder if Kevin Sheehan read this thread. His shows the last two days seem to be based on it.

I think these have been the best replies to the original post:

Deadskins wrote:He doesn't need more time to heal. And, if we went 3-1 with Cousins showing great stuff, that would only serve to bring up the inevitable QB controversy that DC loves so much.

The first sentence is opinion and there is nothing wrong with having one and voicing it. The second sentence makes a good point though I'd argue with the word "only" since that's not the only thing it would serve to do IMO.

riggofan wrote:I totally disagree with this nonsense that RGIII's knee is "completely healed". 1) He's wearing a knee brace for a reason. 2) If you have knee surgery in January, there is no question that your knee will be more healed in October than it is in September.

Even so, if the Docs say he is healed enough to safely play, then I expect him to start against the Eagles.

Also, there is another possible outcome to starting Cousins for the first four games. He goes 1-3 or 0-4, messes up his trade value and we start in a hole for the 2013 season.

Gotta play the best QB.

A lot has been read into this reply that really isn't there. The point that Cousins could go 1-3 or 0-4 shows an understanding of my original post.

There have been other good replies that ventured their own opinions on the "shoulds" and "should nots" of waiting until after the bye - which is great. Then there have been a whole bunch of "straw man" posts which twisted other people's words before refuting the amended statements. Those posts really added nothing as they simply argued with themselves. Then there were the posts that brought up completely irrelevant info as a platform for taking a shot at someone. #shrug

Deadskins wrote:You're totally missing the point. You said his wearing the brace was an indication that his knee was not fully healed, and I said that was not necessarily true. My point is that he's wearing the brace as a precaution against reinjury, and it has no bearing on the state of his recovery. You can agree to disagree all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that your logic was flawed.

He's wearing a knee brace because his knee is not as strong as it was last year. When his knee is strong enough to not require he wear a knee brace as precaution, then he will be fully healed in my book. I'm not really sure what your definition of fully healed is.

There's nothing flawed in my logic, sorry. Move along, you just continue to be wrong as usual.

riggofan wrote:I'm not really sure what your definition of fully healed is.

Scroll up just 7 posts.

SkinsJock wrote:I'm done here - there is nothing to discuss with anyone who is so blind as to not see what an incredible athlete this is

Are you talkin' to me?

Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:42 am Post subject: Robert Griffin III

DarthMonk wrote:This man is the frickin' bomb! His is easily as athletic as ANY QB (or player, for that matter) in the NFL. For example, he sprinted 13.46 in the 110-meter hurdles and 49.56 in the 400-meter hurdles as a junior in high school. He is more accurate than most. He has a bigger arm than most. He is smarter than most. He is a very high character guy. He is a leader.

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject: Robert Griffin III

DarthMonk wrote:There is absolutely no question that of all QBs in the NCAA, RGIII is the most athletic. It's not even close. What is even better is he has everything else - accuracy, arm strength, intelligence, and character. He totally has the it factor.

He appears to be a hybrid of Vick, Rodgers, Newton, and Renaldo Nehemiah.

I know that's nuts but that is what I see when I watch. He is bigger than Vick (6' 2", 220 #)but smaller than Newton. He's faster than Newton (4.4) and almost as fast as Vick. He throws accurately in the pocket or on the run ala Rodgers.

He ran a 49 in the 400 meter hurdles as a high school junior.

Let's get this guy.

Let's simplify. If Andrews clears him, he plays. If not, he doesn't.

riggofan wrote:I totally disagree with this nonsense that RGIII's knee is "completely healed". 1) He's wearing a knee brace for a reason. 2) If you have knee surgery in January, there is no question that your knee will be more healed in October than it is in September.

Even so, if the Docs say he is healed enough to safely play, then I expect him to start against the Eagles.

Also, there is another possible outcome to starting Cousins for the first four games. He goes 1-3 or 0-4, messes up his trade value and we start in a hole for the 2013 season.

Gotta play the best QB.

I don't know why people believe his knee can't be completely heeled...AP's knee was injured far worse than RG3's and he was completely heeled by the start of last season...

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:You're totally missing the point. You said his wearing the brace was an indication that his knee was not fully healed, and I said that was not necessarily true. My point is that he's wearing the brace as a precaution against reinjury, and it has no bearing on the state of his recovery. You can agree to disagree all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that your logic was flawed.

He's wearing a knee brace because his knee is not as strong as it was last year. When his knee is strong enough to not require he wear a knee brace as precaution, then he will be fully healed in my book. I'm not really sure what your definition of fully healed is.

There's nothing flawed in my logic, sorry. Move along, you just continue to be wrong as usual.

How do you know that's why he's wearing a knee brace? He could be wearing it as a precautionary measure...just because he's wearing it doesn't mean his knee isn't fully heeled...

grampi wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:You're totally missing the point. You said his wearing the brace was an indication that his knee was not fully healed, and I said that was not necessarily true. My point is that he's wearing the brace as a precaution against reinjury, and it has no bearing on the state of his recovery. You can agree to disagree all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that your logic was flawed.

He's wearing a knee brace because his knee is not as strong as it was last year. When his knee is strong enough to not require he wear a knee brace as precaution, then he will be fully healed in my book. I'm not really sure what your definition of fully healed is.

There's nothing flawed in my logic, sorry. Move along, you just continue to be wrong as usual.

How do you know that's why he's wearing a knee brace? He could be wearing it as a precautionary measure...just because he's wearing it doesn't mean his knee isn't fully heeled...

lol. Feel free to read through the last one hundred posts in this thread.