The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

DarthMonk wrote:From Boswell:

LINK

Excerpt:

How well and how much will Griffin be able to run when he returns? It matters, but maybe not a great deal. After watching him get knocked out in three of his 16 starts this season, what Redskin coach is ever again going to allow RGIII to run the ball 120 times, whether he gains 815 yards or not?

Griffin blew up his knee at Baylor, now again. What is it we don’t understand? The slim Griffin isn’t fragile, but he’s not extremely durable.

Aaron Rodgers is a mobile quarterback and an effective runner in crucial spots. He averages about 60 carries for 300 yards every year. That’s a good model. More isn’t necessary. Given RGIII’s history, more might be nuts. If a team doesn’t willfully destroy a quarterback, he should last a decade.

I agree with Hogster. Rodgers isn't a great model for how we should use Griffin: he should be a kind of baseline. Sure, Griffin should scramble when it makes sense. That's about all Rodgers does.

But when we run the read option, Griffin gains a lot of yards and always has a safe way to end the play, either by stepping out of bounds or, in a bad situation, sliding. The fact that Griffin can gash a defense running makes our overall running game much more effective.

We should limit the cutesy, trick plays from the playbook. I think Kyle found basically the right balance in the second half of the year. That's how I'd like to see Griffin used.

welch wrote:Let's assume that Kirk Cousins will start at QB all season in 2013. What else can we see?

welch wrote:- Rex G returns as backup

Yes.

welch wrote:- Focus on the defense...especially DBs and LBs.

Yes.

welch wrote:- A decision to be made about Fred Davis. He was good, but the Redskins won without him. Is he worth paying?

Yes. Or try to find an extremely tall TE via the draft. I'm talking 6'5.

welch wrote:- Garcon needs to get his foot healed. Best receiver in a long time

Yes.

welch wrote:- Santana might be 33 or 34 next year, but he's still sharp.

Yes.

welch wrote:- ey? Sadly, I can't imagine him returning.

Sadly, yes.

welch wrote:- OL took injuries and improved. Maybe the Redskins draft another lineman a few rounds down?

I think we have guys from the previous draft and the one before. However, you can't have too much depth. I think RT needs to be addressed.

welch wrote:- Defense will improve just by having Orakpo return.

And Carriker, Merriweather and Tanard. It'll improve by getting to see Minnifield in action.

welch wrote:- I hope London Fletcher returns, but I don't have to live with his pain. If he retires, hire him as a coach.

He has 1 more year left in him.

welch wrote:- Draft a safety and a linebacker. Of the current safeties, definitely keep Reed Doughty even though he's not all-pro. Still good enough to make the team

Reed truly stepped up and made me shut my mouth about him.

welch wrote:- Keep Lorenzo Alexander.

Yes.

welch wrote:- Keep D. Young. He does the job with no fussing and dramatics.

Must happen.

welch wrote:- DeAngelo Hall is good enough. Sometimes makes my head hurt, but he can play, and CB is a tough position.

Keep him if he's willing to take a pay cut.

welch wrote:- What about all the RB's not named "Morris"? Which ones are keepers?

None are must haves. Any could be replaced by another rookie. Bring em all back and let them compete. Bring Hightower back for camp.

welch wrote:What else?

I'd like to see us get faster with out front 7. We're pretty sluggish. Maybe Jenkins improves in his second year back from injury. We could use a stud NT.

The fact of the matter is this, had RG3 not made a ROOKIE MISTAKE and turned inward and got crushed by Ngata all this probably would be a moot point. RG3 was a rookie and made a mistake. Shanahan should have IR'd him right after that game period.....It's a learning experience that may cost RG3 and the Redskins in the future. Period....

The Hogster wrote: He ran a few times when needed, and protected himself. We shouldn't stop doing that. It's what makes him so lethal. It keeps the defense's feet in quicksand.

THAT is the key.

As you pointed out, the designed runs have him running through gaping holes. He doesn't get touched.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

The Hogster wrote: He ran a few times when needed, and protected himself. We shouldn't stop doing that. It's what makes him so lethal. It keeps the defense's feet in quicksand.

THAT is the key.

As you pointed out, the designed runs have him running through gaping holes. He doesn't get touched.

+1

RGIII got hurt both times from trying to get extra yards on non-designed runs. MS had stated that in the BAL game, RGIII thought that whether or not he got the first down may have been the season. On the other run, RGIII was trying to get in the endzone.

I am not sure how we can do anything to protect RGIII in those types of isolated situations other than by improving our OL. If RGIII had had adequate protection, he may not have been forced to resort to running in those 2 situations. He may have perhaps rolled out, BUT instead of running for yards, he could have taken a couple steps back and tryed to have found an open receiver.

RGIII will continue to run the ball and he has proven that he can effectively protect himself when he has been trained to. However, when he is fighting for yards, he doesn't protect himself and that is when he gets hurt. MS needs to prevent those types of situations. Now this, IMHO, is almost impossible to do since instinct takes over. Therefore, improving our OL so that he doesn't resort to instinct is the best method moving forward.

markshark84 wrote:If RGIII had had adequate protection, he may not have been forced to resort to running in those 2 situations.

It his own fault and he has to be smart enough to know when to live to fight another day. He has show time and time again an inability to just give up on a play. I'm hoping that his team in rehab, away from the team will finally cut that light on for him. If this doesn't, nothing will.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

markshark84 wrote:If RGIII had had adequate protection, he may not have been forced to resort to running in those 2 situations.

It his own fault and he has to be smart enough to know when to live to fight another day. He has show time and time again an inability to just give up on a play. I'm hoping that his team in rehab, away from the team will finally cut that light on for him. If this doesn't, nothing will.

The crazy thing is, early in the year, RGIII did a better job of getting down or getting out of bounds.

Against the Saints & Rams, he barely took any big hits aside from shots in the pocket. By Week 3, teams had decided to just hit him on any read option play--the Bengals hit him often, but they were cheap shots on handoffs.

In the Tampa game, RGIII put the team on his back in the 4th Qtr and only took one unnecessary shot on the last drive when he cut back into the middle of the field.

In the Atlanta game, RGIII was going out of bounds, but didn't get out fast enough. Concussion.

Against the Vikings is where I think the damage was done. RGIII carved up the Vikings. And torched them to win the game and finish with 138 yards rushing. I think he started to feel as if he had figured the game out. He was dominant, and started playing less cautious. He had after all broken several big plays with his legs and didn't even get touched!

Once he had that confidence that comes with dominating, I think he fell into a sense of security that wasn't there before. I doubt he'll continue with that mentality--especially after watching less talented QBs like Wilson and Kaepernick impresonate him minus the hard hits.

markshark84 wrote:MS had stated that in the BAL game, RGIII thought that whether or not he got the first down may have been the season.

This is interesting. This was almost the time to be daring. It was 2nd and 19. When he dived he was almost 10 yards short. He ended up 6 yards short. Poor guy needed to slide on that one. Damn.

The Hogster wrote:By Week 3, teams had decided to just hit him on any read option play--the Bengals hit him often, but they were cheap shots on handoffs.

Yep. I have not really seen this happen to Wilson or Kap and it's got nothing to do with some special ability they have to avoid hits.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It his own fault and he has to be smart enough to know when to live to fight another day. He has show time and time again an inability to just give up on a play. I'm hoping that his team in rehab, away from the team will finally cut that light on for him. If this doesn't, nothing will.

+1

DarthMonk wrote:Yep. I have not really seen this happen to Wilson or Kap and it's got nothing to do with some special ability they have to avoid hits.

This is true. This is probably due more to the fact that RGIII is so famous. He's on TV, ESPN, NFL Network, Radio, in the papers. Defensive players hunt for him because it's like a trophy. Hopefully that now that RGIII has become such a star, and is so valueable to the NFL--he'll get the same protection that guys like Brady, Rodgers & Manning gets. If you so much as sneeze on them too hard, it's 15.

The league needs RGIII. He is must see TV.

The Hogster wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Yep. I have not really seen this happen to Wilson or Kap and it's got nothing to do with some special ability they have to avoid hits.

This is true. This is probably due more to the fact that RGIII is so famous. He's on TV, ESPN, NFL Network, Radio, in the papers. Defensive players hunt for him because it's like a trophy. Hopefully that now that RGIII has become such a star, and is so valueable to the NFL--he'll get the same protection that guys like Brady, Rodgers & Manning gets. If you so much as sneeze on them too hard, it's 15.

The league needs RGIII. He is must see TV.

Exactly. This is one of the things I've been saying. We compounded it with the frequency and braggadocio of our calls - particularly against Cincy and thereafter. I'm convinced guys have been gunning for him. I've seen guys launch who, thank goodness, missed cuz Griff ducked. He ducked once and got nailed helmet-to-helmet anyway. He raised his arms in wonderment and it went uncalled.

But all this is for another thread ... except ... we can't repeat our mistakes, neither RGIII's nor those of the coaches.

LOL @ the Redskins schedule.

Good luck with that

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

markshark84 wrote:If RGIII had had adequate protection, he may not have been forced to resort to running in those 2 situations.

It his own fault and he has to be smart enough to know when to live to fight another day. He has show time and time again an inability to just give up on a play. I'm hoping that his team in rehab, away from the team will finally cut that light on for him. If this doesn't, nothing will.

Robert Griffin seems to have a running back mentality. In fact, he often reminds me of Charley Taylor, in those first couple of seasons before Otto shifted him to WR. Something about the way Griffin cuts and seems to take off like a jet.

He's got to forget that...

welch wrote:
Robert Griffin seems to have a running back mentality. In fact, he often reminds me of Charley Taylor, in those first couple of seasons before Otto shifted him to WR. Something about the way Griffin cuts and seems to take off like a jet.

He's got to forget that...

Either that, or convert to Wide Receiver...



just sayin...

Quackjack wrote:LOL @ the Redskins schedule.

Good luck with that

We don't need luck. But, the grumpy old geriatric Steelers do.
Only the highlighted games are those that jump out as tough. We can dominate our division for years to come, unlike Pittsburgh.
Home

Dallas, N.Y. Giants, Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, Kansas City, San Diego,
San Francisco

Away

Dallas, N.Y. Giants, Philadelphia, Green Bay, Minnesota, Denver, Oakland,
Atlanta

Countertrey wrote:

welch wrote:
Robert Griffin seems to have a running back mentality. In fact, he often reminds me of Charley Taylor, in those first couple of seasons before Otto shifted him to WR. Something about the way Griffin cuts and seems to take off like a jet.

He's got to forget that...

Either that, or convert to Wide Receiver...



just sayin...

...or maybe grow a gut like Sonny's so he doesn't even think about running. Doesn't Joe T say that when he met Sonny and Billy Kilmer, he thought the pair were homeless drunks who had accidentally stumbled into old Redskin Park...filthy, stinking drunk, wearing torn trench-coats.

"Who are those old boozers?" Joe asked. "Shouldn't we call security?"

"Oh, they're our starting quarterbacks", someone said.

Quackjack wrote:LOL @ the Redskins schedule.

Good luck with that

Hankerson and Morgan have got to go. This is the NFL. You can't consistently drop well thrown passes like that and stay in this league. Give up on them.

RG3 had better learn to take care of himself better. We still need to utilize his speed and ability to read option, but he has got to quit trying to make extra yards at the end of a scramble. That is where he has gotten killed.

Defense should be a lot stronger with injured players returning, but we still need a better safety.

OL has surprised me. Just need on more acquisition there.

RG3 Fan wrote:Hankerson and Morgan have got to go. This is the NFL. You can't consistently drop well thrown passes like that and stay in this league. Give up on them.

RG3 had better learn to take care of himself better. We still need to utilize his speed and ability to read option, but he has got to quit trying to make extra yards at the end of a scramble. That is where he has gotten killed.

Defense should be a lot stronger with injured players returning, but we still need a better safety.

OL has surprised me. Just need on more acquisition there.

Morgan maybe? Hank no way.
I thought Hank came up big in a couple games. It took a team effort to make the playoffs this year. Everyone chipped in including Hank. Morgan I just want him to step it up mentally.

DarthMonk wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:Yep. I have not really seen this happen to Wilson or Kap and it's got nothing to do with some special ability they have to avoid hits.

This is true. This is probably due more to the fact that RGIII is so famous. He's on TV, ESPN, NFL Network, Radio, in the papers. Defensive players hunt for him because it's like a trophy. Hopefully that now that RGIII has become such a star, and is so valueable to the NFL--he'll get the same protection that guys like Brady, Rodgers & Manning gets. If you so much as sneeze on them too hard, it's 15.

The league needs RGIII. He is must see TV.

Exactly. This is one of the things I've been saying. We compounded it with the frequency and braggadocio of our calls - particularly against Cincy and thereafter. I'm convinced guys have been gunning for him. I've seen guys launch who, thank goodness, missed cuz Griff ducked. He ducked once and got nailed helmet-to-helmet anyway. He raised his arms in wonderment and it went uncalled.

But all this is for another thread ... except ... we can't repeat our mistakes, neither RGIII's nor those of the coaches.

I agree with both of you - I do think that the refs 'look after' certain players and that RG3 will get some 'help' or 'protection' from the officials ..

BUT

the biggest thing that hopefully we will see is that BOTH RG3 and Kyle/Mike will learn big time from what went down this season

RG3 has to curb some of the "I'm indestructible" attitude that seems prevalent in a lot of our youth ....

AND

The Redskins offense has to evolve - RG3's speed is awesome but he's also got a great arm, he has great touch and he seems to have a good mind for the game

we have a lot more weapons that we need to take advantage of on offense - just the threat of his running should help RG3's game a whole bunch IMO


SOOOO .. I think we're kind of saying the same thing here - I like what the read-option does but it does not need to be used a lot to be VERY effective



HOWEVER

the most important thing 'facing forward' is that RG3 really apply himself during the first 2 months of rehab
I'm sure he is very anxious to get back on the field and is being monitored and supported by the very best

welch wrote: Doesn't Joe T say that when he met Sonny and Billy Kilmer, he thought the pair were homeless drunks who had accidentally stumbled into old Redskin Park...filthy, stinking drunk, wearing torn trench-coats.

"Who are those old boozers?" Joe asked. "Shouldn't we call security?"

"Oh, they're our starting quarterbacks", someone said.

There are also stories that they would cruise the Beltway, honking at cars sporting those old "I Follow the Redskins, and I like Sonny" or "I Follow the Redskins and I Like Billy" bumper stickers... One would flash a thumbs up, and the other a different digit... apparently, they had great fun.