The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Hogster wrote:We don't coach because we don't see what they can. It's ridiculous to blame returns on the return man without seeing the coverage. You don't see that watching the Tube.

No, I'm not a coach. But I will tell you what I did see, a much more impressive return from Niles Paul last night with one attempt than anything out of Banks in over a month.

DarthMonk wrote:

The Hogster wrote:The same logic applies to Banks as Gano. For some reason fans loved Gano, even though he sucked. For some reason, fans hate Banks, even though he's broken many long returns including some for TDs.

Give him time.

Close. For some reason people love Banks even though he sucks.

Like Gano's big leg, Banks can take it all the way. In the meantime we watch him bring it out repeatedly for a negative play. No blocking for Banks is much like no blocking for Gano and the flat out misses by Gano are like Banks making dumb decisions in the endznoe.

How many TDs does he have career? 1.

How many fumbles? 13.

How many inside-the-15 kickoff returns? Too many.

I do not hate Banks. I did not love Gano. Banks has not pulled his weight for a while. I'd consider Hall on punts and anyone else on kickoffs. Not sure who I'd bring up to take his roster spot - probably a pass rusher like Markus White.

To he fair, how many have been called back due to a bs flag or unnecessary block in the back? Add in preseason tds and he's had a good career as a return man. He's scored on O as well, and has disrupted coverage with his presence.
But ya, to many fumbles, and not enough sparks to fuel this fan base so far this year.

Brandon Banks - the wide receiver - Not.

The Hogster wrote:We don't coach because we don't see what they can. It's ridiculous to blame returns on the return man without seeing the coverage. You don't see that watching the Tube.

All true. I do blame him for bringing the ball out when he should not. That is not ridiculous at all. Defending those decisions is.

Also, I don't need to be a coach or have access to non-Tube film to know a 13:1 ratio on fumbles to TDs is bad.

I'd give Hall a shot, deactivate Banks, and activate a pass rusher. If we don't I hope Banks does good things in these last 4 games.

DarthMonk wrote:[
How many fumbles? 13.

How many inside-the-15 kickoff returns? Too many.
.

The fact that he fumbles the ball and NEVER loses a fumble used to bother me, until I realized he never loses a fumble. I know the odds say he will eventually lose a fumble, but until that happens I'm not going to worry.

Now as far as him not being productive, the rational fan would assume that they boxing isn't there. It isn't like he forgot how to run! However, it is getting to the point that I'm freaking tired of hearing people say he is a bum and would like to see another returner so people can see it isn't the returner. But people will just blame that guy too!

The Hogster wrote:We don't coach because we don't see what they can. It's ridiculous to blame returns on the return man without seeing the coverage. You don't see that watching the Tube.

+16

I agree with the post that says "I'm not a coach but I can see when others run forward they get a decent amount of yards".

skinsfan#33 wrote:The fact that he fumbles the ball and NEVER loses a fumble used to bother me, until I realized he never loses a fumble. I know the odds say he will eventually lose a fumble, but until that happens I'm not going to worry.

He's recovered 10 of his 13 fumbles. So about once every 3 games he fumbles and we hold our breath praying he comes up with it. So far he has been what I will call "fortunate" in that regard. Almost every game he brings out a kick or two he should be downing. As for the TDs that were called back, sometimes the illegal block is what springs a guy.

I worry every time he settles under a kick - kinda like the way I worried every time Gano lined up for a meaningful kick. I hope he does not fumble and springs one if we let him keep trying. The odds are against his success.

The Hogster wrote:The Brandon Banks hate comes and goes in cycles. If he beats the Ravens on a return TD, then people will have to dab the foam from their angry mouths until he has another dropoff. LOL

Absolutely! If fans actually saw him do something, if Banks actually produced in games, he'd garner way more fan appreciation. But that hasn't happened.

It isn't about "hate." It's about production. Period. I'd bet most fans would agree that they actually like the kid. His teammates seem to like him too. But at the end of the day, it's about production in the NFL, and the fact remains that Banks has done nothing despite Shanahan rolling the dice with him once again this year and giving the kid numerous, numerous opportunities.

The Hogster wrote:even though he's broken many long returns including some for TDs.

Umm... In 3 years of regular season games, Banks has 1 career kick-off return for a TD and zero punt returns for a TD. You mentioned the "coverage" seen on the tube. Yeah, that's right. The only 2 punt returns for TD's he had in years past came in preseason playing against 3rd and 4th string special teamers. Hardly starting quality regular season schemed coverage... which, by the way, can be seen on the tube. Maybe you just need a widescreen... just sayin...

Shanahan has made every attempt to give Banks opportunities on offense this year as well, both in preseason and the regular season, and Banks simply hasn't produced there either.

Banks has 8 receptions for 15 yards. Very unimpressive. Banks has also carried the ball 7 times for 36 yards. One of those runs went for 21 yards. (Okay, I'll give him that one.) But that means that Banks only ran for 15 yards on the 6 other rush attempts. 6 rushes for 15 yards. Again, very unimpressive.

If you combine those lousy numbers with the horribly bad decisions he's made on kick/punt returns, which has actually cost our team countless yards and put our offense in worse starting field position the majority of the time, it's not very hard to see why fans are down on him. It's about production... or in Banks' case, the lack of production. "Hate" has nothing to do with it. In the NFL, it's produce or be replaced. That may seem harsh, but it's the nature of the industry league-wide.

Irn-Bru wrote:I think it's pretty clear the coaches have given up on him. No involvement on offense anymore. With Garcon back and with just a few weeks left to play, there's probably no point in cutting him now. But I'd be willing to bet he's among our pre-draft personnel moves this offseason.

Completely agree. Some keep wanting to talk about the alleged deception Banks provides with his presence on offense. Well, Banks was nowhere to be seen on offense last night, yet the deception created by the offensive scheme - not by specific players - was dominant, clearly had the Giants off-balance all night, and was overwhelmingly effective and evident without Banks. I do not believe you'd find any evidence that defensive opponents feel threatened by Banks on offense. In fact, I believe they know Banks with the ball is an easy tackle and an easy strip/fumble. Our defensive opponents concern is with RGIII, Morris and the system/scheme.

He's cooked. Time to move on.

You people don't know what you're talking about. If Banks "sucked" was "cooked" or couldn't "produce" Mike Shanahan would move on.

One thing Mike has shown the ability to is to admit a mistake and cut his losses. You people are not reasonable with your expectations for returners. Just because you see them as highlights every week, doesn't mean that the same guy does it every week.

If you do some simple research, you'll see that Devin Hester, the GOAT in terms of returns, has gone a span of 2 seasons without breaking one.

This is the same biased blather we hear in the offseason. How many times does Mike S have to tell you to chill out.

SMH

The Hogster wrote:You people don't know what you're talking about. If Banks "sucked" was "cooked" or couldn't "produce" Mike Shanahan would move on.

Good grief you sure have a bone for Banks!!! hah.

I sort of agree with what you're saying though, Hogster. I don't know what Shanahan thinks of Banks. But if we had a better option available at that position, I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to use it.

The Hogster wrote:The same logic applies to Banks as Gano.

SMH

The Hogster wrote:You people don't know what you're talking about. If Banks "sucked" was "cooked" or couldn't "produce" Mike Shanahan would move on.

One thing Mike has shown the ability to is to admit a mistake and cut his losses. You people are not reasonable with your expectations for returners. Just because you see them as highlights every week, doesn't mean that the same guy does it every week.

If you do some simple research, you'll see that Devin Hester, the GOAT in terms of returns, has gone a span of 2 seasons without breaking one.

This is the same biased blather we hear in the offseason. How many times does Mike S have to tell you to chill out.

SMH

... unless, of course, Banks continued presence is nothing more than Shanahan simply acknowledging that he's not going to improve the situation by moving on at this point in the season... there's simply not anyone out there that would offer any improvement in performance... so... no point in cutting now.

Banks appears to have gone the route of Antwan Randal-el... a master of indecision and bad decision, giving up any advantage that his speed gives him... . but... it's too late to change now.

And, regarding our "expectations for returners"... umm... we don't need him to "consistently break one". We just need him to be consistently effective. We recognize that when we see it.

B Mitch... D Green... M. Nelms. R. Cartright (much slower, but offered consistently solid field position)... our expectations are not excessive... But, we do know what a good returner looks like. SMH

Countertrey wrote:

The Hogster wrote:You people don't know what you're talking about. If Banks "sucked" was "cooked" or couldn't "produce" Mike Shanahan would move on.

One thing Mike has shown the ability to is to admit a mistake and cut his losses. You people are not reasonable with your expectations for returners. Just because you see them as highlights every week, doesn't mean that the same guy does it every week.

If you do some simple research, you'll see that Devin Hester, the GOAT in terms of returns, has gone a span of 2 seasons without breaking one.

This is the same biased blather we hear in the offseason. How many times does Mike S have to tell you to chill out.

SMH

... unless, of course, Banks continued presence is nothing more than Shanahan simply acknowledging that he's not going to improve the situation by moving on at this point in the season... there's simply not anyone out there that would offer any improvement in performance... so... no point in cutting now.

Banks appears to have gone the route of Antwan Randal-el... a master of indecision and bad decision, giving up any advantage that his speed gives him... . but... it's too late to change now.

And, regarding our "expectations for returners"... umm... we don't need him to "consistently break one". We just need him to be consistently effective. We recognize that when we see it.

B Mitch... D Green... M. Nelms. R. Cartright (much slower, but offered consistently solid field position)... our expectations are not excessive... But, we do know what a good returner looks like. SMH

Obviously not. B Mitch is HOF worthy. D Green is in the HOF and did it in spots. R Cartwright was a consistent KO returner when Kickoffs actually got returned.

The new rules change the game for KOs. As a punt returner, Banks has proven what he's capable of. He has shown it. Even still, you people hate on him during the season and in the offseason. It undermines your argument against him when it seems like you jump at the chance to want him gone.

The Hogster wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

The Hogster wrote:You people don't know what you're talking about. If Banks "sucked" was "cooked" or couldn't "produce" Mike Shanahan would move on.

One thing Mike has shown the ability to is to admit a mistake and cut his losses. You people are not reasonable with your expectations for returners. Just because you see them as highlights every week, doesn't mean that the same guy does it every week.

If you do some simple research, you'll see that Devin Hester, the GOAT in terms of returns, has gone a span of 2 seasons without breaking one.

This is the same biased blather we hear in the offseason. How many times does Mike S have to tell you to chill out.

SMH

... unless, of course, Banks continued presence is nothing more than Shanahan simply acknowledging that he's not going to improve the situation by moving on at this point in the season... there's simply not anyone out there that would offer any improvement in performance... so... no point in cutting now.

Banks appears to have gone the route of Antwan Randal-el... a master of indecision and bad decision, giving up any advantage that his speed gives him... . but... it's too late to change now.

And, regarding our "expectations for returners"... umm... we don't need him to "consistently break one". We just need him to be consistently effective. We recognize that when we see it.

B Mitch... D Green... M. Nelms. R. Cartright (much slower, but offered consistently solid field position)... our expectations are not excessive... But, we do know what a good returner looks like. SMH

Obviously not. B Mitch is HOF worthy. D Green is in the HOF and did it in spots. R Cartwright was a consistent KO returner when Kickoffs actually got returned.

The new rules change the game for KOs. As a punt returner, Banks has proven what he's capable of. He has shown it. Even still, you people hate on him during the season and in the offseason. It undermines your argument against him when it seems like you jump at the chance to want him gone.

I love him. I think he's been playing very poorly pretty much all season. He fumbles way too much. If he plays I hope he breaks one. I don't think he should be playing ... especially on kickoffs ... unless he can start making better decisions in the end zone.

He is not a good WR.

Hate is a strong word.


I hate Brandon Banks.

For those with bias, hate, or memory loss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24iFIjs1Gxk

For those with unconditional hard-on:

Brandon Banks has helped this team ..... in the past

I hope he can make some plays in the games coming up


I'm sure many here will agree that there is ZERO chance that Banks is playing here next season

I'll even add - Banks is not here next season, no matter what he does in the next 4 games

Banks has been a help but he's not getting a roster spot next season

The Hogster wrote:You people don't know what you're talking about. If Banks "sucked" was "cooked" or couldn't "produce" Mike Shanahan would move on.

One thing Mike has shown the ability to is to admit a mistake and cut his losses. You people are not reasonable with your expectations for returners. Just because you see them as highlights every week, doesn't mean that the same guy does it every week.

If you do some simple research, you'll see that Devin Hester, the GOAT in terms of returns, has gone a span of 2 seasons without breaking one.

This is the same biased blather we hear in the offseason. How many times does Mike S have to tell you to chill out.

SMH

Spot on, also people should ask what if we have better special teams. It's sort of hard to make any advances when you have NO BLOCKING. I bet you put Brandon Banks on the Jet's ST's and he is a beast. I am sure he is tired of getting crushed by bigger guys cause no one can block........

So when Robinson gets the ball and runs straight ahead and we get yards there is blocking. When Paul runs the ball straight ahead and gets yards there is blocking. When Banks gets the ball, dances around, runs sideways and gets tackled then there is no blocking. OK.

Right. But, of course folks who've never played the game will blame poor returns on the returner. Funny how the same people often bend over backwards to blame the blocking for Graham Gano's blocks/misses. But, if we can't get any positive returns, it's all Brandon's fault.

Totally ridiculous. Thank goodness, fans don't run or coach teams. Shanahan knows what he's doing. That's why Banks is our returner.

Redskins Coach Mike Shanahan said the minimal returns aren’t entirely Banks’s fault. Instead, the coach says, there are a number of other factors to take into account.
“It all depends on the punts and the coverage,”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/10/20/brandon-banks-still-waiting-for-breakout-in-returns-game/

Let's just be real. Ever since Banks got stabbed, people started treating him like a thug. There's no real basis for all of this hate every offseason and whenever he hasn't scored. If we had better options, he'd be gone. Period. Shanahan has proven that.

speaking for myself - Brandon Banks has been a help here ...

but that is over after this season - I do not mean that as a knock on what he's done - I just do not see him helping this team next season


there will be other players that are not a part of things here also - their ability to contribute is over

I go by the eye test. Banks dances and does nothing. The other guys run straight ahead and get some yards. Kinda simple.