The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

--Punter Sav Rocca is already in midseason form, booming it eight times for a 40.6-yard average, including two downed inside the 20-yard line. Rocca said during training camp that he intends to break the franchise record for net average in a season this year, and got off to a strong start tonight.

http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events ... 21fba22e67

Good luck with that, Sav. The franchise record is also the NFL record, and it has stood for 72 years.

PAPDOG67 wrote:Just to clear things up I have read a few different columns that Garcon was clearly in on the sideline catch, but the ref blew the call. Now some other evaluations.

Yeah I have read that in several places today too. May have been close, but doesn't sound like Garcon really blew the play or anything.

Any thoughts on Tyler Polumbus btw? I've read some conflicting things today on his play.

riggofan wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:Just to clear things up I have read a few different columns that Garcon was clearly in on the sideline catch, but the ref blew the call. Now some other evaluations.

Yeah I have read that in several places today too. May have been close, but doesn't sound like Garcon really blew the play or anything.

Any thoughts on Tyler Polumbus btw? I've read some conflicting things today on his play.

The starting line as a whole looked decent on pass protection. The run blocking looked like a work in progress. I didn't watch Polumbus too much, I will go back and do that tonight. I was watching on a lame computer feed last night. I taped the replay on the NFL Network today and will re-watch the whole game tonight over some cocktails.

PAPDOG67 wrote:Just to clear things up I have read a few different columns that Garcon was clearly in on the sideline catch, but the ref blew the call.

In that case we should have challenged the call.

Deadskins wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:Just to clear things up I have read a few different columns that Garcon was clearly in on the sideline catch, but the ref blew the call.

In that case we should have challenged the call.

In a real game, yes. But coaches often let things slide so that they can evalute players/situations. Maybe he wanted to evaluate the punt blocking/coverage. Or to see how the defense handled a short field.

Skinsfan33 wrote:

Also, not impressed with Josh Morgan! He almost dropped a catch that was behind him but wasn't a hard catch and should have been snagged clean. He had some actual drops, but the play that irritated me the most was a poorly thrown deep ball by Cousins (i think). He didn't really have a chance to catch the ball because the DB had better position, but Morgan quit on the play and didn't try to prevent the pick. The DB dropped the pick, but JM quitting on the play made me want to barf.

The first thing that came to my mind on that deep ball that you referenced was - Is Josh Morgan really a lock? I know it is one game and he is coming off a severe leg injury and has missed TC with a hammy, so I am not going to read to much into last night, but I will agree with you, I was not impressed.

Deadskins wrote:

3. Doing the flip going into the endzone on the TD. No reason to risk injury on a stupid celebration in a pre-season game.

Shanny needs to put a stop to that, NOW, for both the reasons that you mentioned!

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:Just to clear things up I have read a few different columns that Garcon was clearly in on the sideline catch, but the ref blew the call.

In that case we should have challenged the call.

In a real game, yes. But coaches often let things slide so that they can evalute players/situations. Maybe he wanted to evaluate the punt blocking/coverage. Or to see how the defense handled a short field.

Seems we would have wanted to keep RGIII's opening NFL drive going, if at all possible. I understand your point, but in the first pre-season game, when your starters are only on the field for a few series, you shouldn't be frugal with your challenges, IMO. Besides, it's not like we didn't get plenty of chances to look at the punting unit or short-field defenses anyway.

PAPDOG67 wrote:Just to clear things up I have read a few different columns that Garcon was clearly in on the sideline catch, but the ref blew the call. Now some other evaluations.

I thought Gettis got to the second level very nicley in the running game. Looked good on a few combo blocks. I know we didn't get too much movement in the running game early, but there were a few plays where royster only had the safety/secondary to beat which is going to set up a lot of big plays in the running game...eventually.

I thought big Trent and Davis both looked in very good shape. This is nice to see considering they are running out of rope to hold on to.

RGIII looked very posied in the pocket which I thought was the best thing about him. A lot of rookies are a little jittery, and if you are you're too worried about the rush, you have no shot as a QB in this league. He throws a nice ball and has a quick release.

Garcon looks like he is poised to take that next step and become a # 1 in this league after playing 2nd fiddle to Wayne for a few seasons. Nice to see we may have a true go to WR for our rookie QB.

The defense looked very solid as a unit. The one guy who stood out tremedously tho was Baker # 92. Looked like a man amongst boys. I don't know where we picked him up from, but he looks like he could become a valuable contributor to this team.

In two years in the league, Baker has been cut twice after playing one game. He's been regarded as undersized. You could have fooled me. He looked like Haynesworth was supposed to look.

cowboykillerzRED wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:With regard to Niles Paul, he did have a few drops last night. But I believe that had more to do with nerves then anything else. We already know he can catch and run. "Paul completed his Nebraska career finishing one of the most productive careers for a receiver and return specialist in Cornhusker history." Paul is transitioning to a new position. At this point early in his transition, I believe he's just thinking a lot, focusing more on his assignments rather then just playing and catching the ball. Once he learns the position and gets more acclimated with his role as a TE, the light will come on and he'll react more naturally catching passes. I still believe Paul will be effective as a TE and will prove to be a difficult assignment for opposing LB's and DB's trying to cover him.

+1

I was thinking/hoping the same thing. I want to see the same stuff next week but with fluid catching and running after. He coulda had a few big plays. He was basically always open.

Don't prove me wrong, Niles. My middle name is Paul.

DarthMonk

So can't the same case be made for Banks? I mean we are all bias one way or another.. we all can agree most the throws his way were far from perfect... Might the pressure to produce and make the team make a hard catch harder? Like Paul he found ways to get open- slipped once then had pretty much every pass thrown in a spot he had to change direction. Can't recall a single one "in the numbers".
When's game two?! Lol

I agree with you on this CKR, While I agree with SkinsFreak that Niles Paul's drops could have a lot to do with nerves, the same could be said of Banks. Both players are being asked to do something new to them. Both players proved themselves in the Big 12 in different manners from which they were used last night. Both of them are small for their positions. Both of them are excited about their new roles. It was game one - stayed tuned.

Red_One43 wrote:Deadskins wrote:

3. Doing the flip going into the endzone on the TD. No reason to risk injury on a stupid celebration in a pre-season game.

Shanny needs to put a stop to that, NOW, for both the reasons that you mentioned!

While I agree to an extent, when you start to micro-manage you lose your employees/players.

Let's not get too anal about this stuff fellas.

crazyhorse1 wrote:In two years in the league, Baker has been cut twice after playing one game. He's been regarded as undersized. You could have fooled me. He looked like Haynesworth was supposed to look.

Undersized? Wow. He was a man amongst children with the 2nd/3rd stringers.

Deadskins wrote:Seems we would have wanted to keep RGIII's opening NFL drive going, if at all possible. I understand your point, but in the first pre-season game, when your starters are only on the field for a few series, you shouldn't be frugal with your challenges, IMO. Besides, it's not like we didn't get plenty of chances to look at the punting unit or short-field defenses anyway.

The ability to evaluate certain players only occurs during specific situations. He knew that RGIII would have a chance to take the field again but possibly wouldn't be presented to see 1st string punt coverage.

I'm not saying I'm right, but that it's a possibility of strategy. You know, before people started to slit their wrists about how poorly coached the team is and what not...

Deadskins wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:Just to clear things up I have read a few different columns that Garcon was clearly in on the sideline catch, but the ref blew the call.

In that case we should have challenged the call.

In a real game, yes. But coaches often let things slide so that they can evalute players/situations. Maybe he wanted to evaluate the punt blocking/coverage. Or to see how the defense handled a short field.

Seems we would have wanted to keep RGIII's opening NFL drive going, if at all possible. I understand your point, but in the first pre-season game, when your starters are only on the field for a few series, you shouldn't be frugal with your challenges, IMO. Besides, it's not like we didn't get plenty of chances to look at the punting unit or short-field defenses anyway.

I think Shanny said after the game that he wasn't sure either if Garcon was in or out.....I certainly couldn't tell from the TV angle, and did not see any replays that showed his shoes and the sideline. It happened on the Bill sideline, so was away from our coaches. Maybe a challenge in the regular season.....

WRT banks and paul drops.....I think that Paul is going to make the squad regardless.....buy BB is in serious competition for a roster spot. He has 3 more games....in addition to however the coaches want to weigh TC results.....I am not a BB hater, if he can help the team then he needs to be on the roster....but I really have yet to see the consistent playmaker ability from him (including last season as well).

I believe when the coaches sit down and review the game tape from last night, they're not going to be impressed with Banks' performance.

When the coaches sit down with players they go over what they did good and what they did that needs improvement. When coaches like a players work ethic and the mistakes are corectable like Banks' mistakes last night. The meeting with his coaches will not be doom and gloom. Banks showed improvement on that go route from Cousins vs. the go route from Rex. For a player to show that much improvement during a game, is a big positive for a player. Coaches like to see that their coaching is working. Of course, for you, his size is not correctable!

I admit I haven't watched Banks in camp, so hopefully his performances in practice will offset his poor showing last night. However, if some of the other candidates, such as Crawford, show some promise returning kicks, Banks may have a hard time making the team. But it's early. .

His practice perfromance is what got him the chance to be featured in the game. This is why it the meeting will not be doom and gloom for Banks. I am sure that he ran his routes right in practice, but just like QBs who change their throwing motion, in games, they revert back to old habits. Banks, never got the polish of route running in college. True, he will not get a pass for this.

Has Crawford shown you anything more than Terrance Austin on punt returns? Shanny likes the explosiveness of Banks on the returns. That is why Austin hasn't beaten him out. Austin is a pretty good returner in his own right.

With 3 preseason games left to go, hopefully he'll step it up

Yeah right, step it up in height a few inches.

I thought Aldrick Robinson had a positive showing last night. Although he was playing late in the game against inferior talent, Robinson made a few nice catches and displayed some of that impressive speed we've heard about. On one play, Robinson made a sweet catch along the sideline; catching the ball with two-hands out in front of him, tip-toeing the sideline for a 1st down. At the end of the game, Robinson put a nice move on the DB and showed his impressive speed getting wide open on a go-route down the seam. The DB was forced to stretch out and grab/interfere with Robinson to prevent a sure touchdown. The interference penalty placed the ball at the spot of the foul and that play effective sealed the game for us, as Cousins stepped up and took a knee on the very next play.

No question here - Aldrick has the polish of an NFL receiver- June Jones taught him well at SMU. If he can catch punts (we know that he can run), he is on the team.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:Deadskins wrote:

3. Doing the flip going into the endzone on the TD. No reason to risk injury on a stupid celebration in a pre-season game.

Shanny needs to put a stop to that, NOW, for both the reasons that you mentioned!

While I agree to an extent, when you start to micro-manage you lose your employees/players.

Let's not get too anal about this stuff fellas.

Micro-manage? Anal? Sounds like sound coaching to me.

True, it is not a "going to the ground" violation, but it is subject to a judgment call by a ref that felt it was taunting - a 15 yarder after key TD can be come back to hurt your team.

Flipping into the endzone is a risky endeavor - why risk falling on yor neck and losing a star player.

With both of these scenarios, are you going to say something like, it's OK, at least Shanny isn't anal about those things?

Flipping into the end zone? Doesn''t sound like a wise decision.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:

The defense looked very solid as a unit. The one guy who stood out tremedously tho was Baker # 92. Looked like a man amongst boys. I don't know where we picked him up from, but he looks like he could become a valuable contributor to this team.

In two years in the league, Baker has been cut twice after playing one game. He's been regarded as undersized. You could have fooled me. He looked like Haynesworth was supposed to look.

Right on!

I always liked the way Jerry Rice "celebrated". He walked over to the nearest official, handed him the ball, and went back to his bench. Professional. No need for antics, you just did your job. The flip itself didn't bother me much, but the landing sucked. PG landed on his tailbone, which really could have caused an injury. What does bother me is when a defender makes a tackle after a 14 yard run and then does the "hulk flex" routine. Save that crap for 14 yard losses. That said, we are talking about (for the most part) very young men playing a high testosterone game, so i guess a bit of immaturity is only natural.

cowboykillerzRED wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:With regard to Niles Paul, he did have a few drops last night. But I believe that had more to do with nerves then anything else. We already know he can catch and run. "Paul completed his Nebraska career finishing one of the most productive careers for a receiver and return specialist in Cornhusker history." Paul is transitioning to a new position. At this point early in his transition, I believe he's just thinking a lot, focusing more on his assignments rather then just playing and catching the ball. Once he learns the position and gets more acclimated with his role as a TE, the light will come on and he'll react more naturally catching passes. I still believe Paul will be effective as a TE and will prove to be a difficult assignment for opposing LB's and DB's trying to cover him.

+1

I was thinking/hoping the same thing. I want to see the same stuff next week but with fluid catching and running after. He coulda had a few big plays. He was basically always open.

Don't prove me wrong, Niles. My middle name is Paul.

DarthMonk

So can't the same case be made for Banks? I mean we are all bias one way or another.. we all can agree most the throws his way were far from perfect... Might the pressure to produce and make the team make a hard catch harder? Like Paul he found ways to get open- slipped once then had pretty much every pass thrown in a spot he had to change direction. Can't recall a single one "in the numbers".
When's game two?! Lol

I suppose but Paul was getting open and dropping. Banks wasn't really getting open except on maybe one dig and a deep ball against scrubs. I'd be more apt to attribute drops to nerves than I would an inability to be a big target, or having short arms, or not being able to contest a jump ball.

I think I remember one out where a guy was right on his butt but the pass hit him in the numbers. He cradle caught it. Actually, most of our catches were not snatches with the thumbs together. Too much body catching all the way around.

I also feel like Morgan did better than given credit for. Gonna do a quick re-watch then re-assess.

I'm excited to see how Banks and Paul (and the coaches) respond next game.

DarthMonk

The game is about to be replayed on NFL Network.

John Keim's Redskins Confidential Articles on the Bills Game - 4 articles

Speed does make a difference on handoffs. It might not be much of one, but it exists. Granted, sometimes the landmarks might be a little different in these scenarios, but the overall difference was consistent. When Robert Griffin III handed off in a stretch zone run, it took him approximately 1.10 seconds to get it to the running back each time. When Rex Grossman did it, it took him nearly 1.25 seconds. That’s not a knock on Grossman, but it is an example of the speed. Oh, and it wasn’t just Griffin. Kirk Cousins’ times were about the same as Griffin’s.

Do read the rest of this article. Keim also timed how quick RGIII gets the ball out of his hands and says it is up there with Manning.

Deadskins wrote:The game is about to be replayed on NFL Network.

What is that program called in which you order the Redskin games and can isolate on specific players?

Just watched the Garcon sideline play from the first series in HD slo-mo, and it was definitely a catch.

Morgan will be fine, no worries atall.

SkinsFreak have you been talking to John Keim?

My problem with Brandon Banks wasn’t the slip. Sometimes that happens. But it’s the plays that weren’t made because of his size; that’s a worry that won’t change. On one play a defensive back jarred the ball loose after Banks caught it on a hitch route. Later on a deep ball Banks jumped but could not do much against the defensive back. It was a jump-ball situation that he lost. Banks did get open deep but the pass was underthrown by Kirk Cousins (a timing issue, not an arm one). Oh, and Banks had one good run block but there was another time in which he was overpowered near the line. That stuff matters. You can love a guy all you want, but sometimes love isn’t enough. Man, I now sound like a relationship therapist. It didn’t help Banks that Aldrick Robinson had a nice showing in the second half. Granted it was later in the second half, but he flashed nonetheless. Like Banks he was underthrown on a go-route in which he was open. It’s good to see Robinson’s speed, something we didn’t see last year – in practice or games.

I respect Keim's articles, but disagree with him on this one. Keim is the same guy who wrote the article that the coaches loves Banks. Keim wants to make it into a love fest issue - The coaches don't love Banks because he is an novelty - they see that putting the ball in his hands is trouble for the other teams. Either our coaches are dumb and cannot see that Banks cannot out jump most DBs or they are smart and realize that his upside just might outweigh his height and size limitations. I think that it is the latter.

Anyways, SkinsFeak - I don't mind posting something that supports your view. Be sure to tell Keim to pay you royalties when he takes your stuff off our boards.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/redskins- ... le/2504544

langleyparkjoe wrote:Morgan will be fine, no worries atall.

Any thoughts on Hank's catch?