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Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:28 am
by SkinsJock
I'm not basing it on the past - I look for Davis to show that he's our best TE going forward
ey has been a very good player for us but going forward I see Davis as having an edge and showing that he's going to be a very good TE also
I'm a
ey fan but he's not the player he was
ey could make the roster - that would be fine with me - when healthy, he's still a clutch player
Fred Davis will be playing here and that's great too
we'll see
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:31 am
by SkinsJock
Deadskins wrote:SkinsJock wrote:I'm a
ey fan but
Davis is the better TE at this time
What are you basing this on?
ey's health? Because the numbers just don't bear that out.
did you look at the whole post or just something that you want to nitpick about
ey's health is a concern
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:04 pm
by skinsfan#33
SkinsJock wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote: ... Everyone says that you can't pay
ey the money he is making to be a backup TE. I contend, that if healthy,
ey will be the starter at TE and not Davis.
ey is older but proven! Davis has never posted top ten numbers and there is no guarantee he will post better numbers than
ey.
ey should post better numbers if healthy. Now that is a big if, but FD has a big if hanging over his head too. His season could go up in smoke just as easy as
ey could get injured!
Besides what is wrong with having two TEs capable catching 60 balls (even though Davis never has)?
we'll see - I'm a
ey fan but Davis is the better TE at this time
I totally do not agree with the assumption that Davis is just as likely to be banned by the NFL as
ey is likely to be injured
WHY?
ey will have an opportunity to make the roster and I think he's here for 1 more year - IF he's healthy
Since Davis has never posted a better season than
ey, when
ey is healthy, you are projecting (or guessing) that Davis will finally out perform
ey. My guess, backed up by past performances, is that
ey is the safer bet.
ey had two injuries last year. Davis failed at least three (possibly four) drug test. Again the numbers favor
ey. On top of the drug risk, FD also is at risk of injury, just like
ey and every NFL player.
My whole point is with
ey you know you get a top five TE when healthy. With Davis you might get a top five TE when healthy and not suspended for drugs.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:47 pm
by Deadskins
SkinsJock wrote:Deadskins wrote:SkinsJock wrote:I'm a
ey fan but
Davis is the better TE at this time
What are you basing this on?
ey's health? Because the numbers just don't bear that out.
did you look at the whole post or just something that you want to nitpick about
ey's health is a concern
I'm not always trying to screw with you, SJ.
I was seriously wondering how you could possibly suffer under the same common misconception as the masses, that Davis has ever been a better TE than
ey. If you were saying that because
ey is coming off a second injury, and needs to show he can still put up top numbers, then I share your concern. But I just don't see how you can unequivically make the statement that Davis is the better TE at this time, when he has never put up numbers like Chris.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:07 pm
by 1niksder
skinsfan#33 wrote:SkinsJock wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote: ... Everyone says that you can't pay
ey the money he is making to be a backup TE. I contend, that if healthy,
ey will be the starter at TE and not Davis.
ey is older but proven! Davis has never posted top ten numbers and there is no guarantee he will post better numbers than
ey.
ey should post better numbers if healthy. Now that is a big if, but FD has a big if hanging over his head too. His season could go up in smoke just as easy as
ey could get injured!
Besides what is wrong with having two TEs capable catching 60 balls (even though Davis never has)?
we'll see - I'm a
ey fan but Davis is the better TE at this time
I totally do not agree with the assumption that Davis is just as likely to be banned by the NFL as
ey is likely to be injured
WHY?
ey will have an opportunity to make the roster and I think he's here for 1 more year - IF he's healthy
Since Davis has never posted a better season than
ey, when
ey is healthy, you are projecting (or guessing) that Davis wil finally out perform
ey. My guess, backed up by part performances, is that
ey is the safer bet.
ey had two injuries last year. Davis failed at least three (possibly four) drug test. Again the numbers favor
ey. On to of the drug risk, FD also is at risk of injury, just like
ey.
My whole point is with
ey you know you get a top five TE when healthy. With Davis you might get a top five TE when healthy and not suspended for drugs.
+1
Throw out
ey's rookie year (which was more productive than Davis's), plus the two years he was hurt and Chris's worst year was two receptions short of Fred's best season, not to mention
ey is the best blocking TE on the roster until Paul gets things figured out.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 1:44 pm
by Skins Fan in Indy
There is no way they even think about letting
ey go!.
ey is one of the best at TE when he is healthy and plus
ey just adds another weapon to make sure RGIII is comfortable and has a quailty and reliable veteran. I like Davis, but I will take
ey any day and everyday of the week.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:16 pm
by yupchagee
1niksder wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote:SkinsJock wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote: ... Everyone says that you can't pay
ey the money he is making to be a backup TE. I contend, that if healthy,
ey will be the starter at TE and not Davis.
ey is older but proven! Davis has never posted top ten numbers and there is no guarantee he will post better numbers than
ey.
ey should post better numbers if healthy. Now that is a big if, but FD has a big if hanging over his head too. His season could go up in smoke just as easy as
ey could get injured!
Besides what is wrong with having two TEs capable catching 60 balls (even though Davis never has)?
we'll see - I'm a
ey fan but Davis is the better TE at this time
I totally do not agree with the assumption that Davis is just as likely to be banned by the NFL as
ey is likely to be injured
WHY?
ey will have an opportunity to make the roster and I think he's here for 1 more year - IF he's healthy
Since Davis has never posted a better season than
ey, when
ey is healthy, you are projecting (or guessing) that Davis wil finally out perform
ey. My guess, backed up by part performances, is that
ey is the safer bet.
ey had two injuries last year. Davis failed at least three (possibly four) drug test. Again the numbers favor
ey. On to of the drug risk, FD also is at risk of injury, just like
ey.
My whole point is with
ey you know you get a top five TE when healthy. With Davis you might get a top five TE when healthy and not suspended for drugs.
+1
Throw out
ey's rookie year (which was more productive than Davis's), plus the two years he was hurt and Chris's worst year was two receptions short of Fred's best season, not to mention
Cooley is the best blocking TE on the roster until Paul gets things figured out.
What about Paulson?
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:19 pm
by yupchagee
1niksder wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote:SkinsJock wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote: ... Everyone says that you can't pay
ey the money he is making to be a backup TE. I contend, that if healthy,
ey will be the starter at TE and not Davis.
ey is older but proven! Davis has never posted top ten numbers and there is no guarantee he will post better numbers than
ey.
ey should post better numbers if healthy. Now that is a big if, but FD has a big if hanging over his head too. His season could go up in smoke just as easy as
ey could get injured!
Besides what is wrong with having two TEs capable catching 60 balls (even though Davis never has)?
we'll see - I'm a
ey fan but Davis is the better TE at this time
I totally do not agree with the assumption that Davis is just as likely to be banned by the NFL as
ey is likely to be injured
WHY?
ey will have an opportunity to make the roster and I think he's here for 1 more year - IF he's healthy
Since Davis has never posted a better season than
ey, when
ey is healthy, you are projecting (or guessing) that Davis wil finally out perform
ey. My guess, backed up by part performances, is that
ey is the safer bet.
ey had two injuries last year. Davis failed at least three (possibly four) drug test. Again the numbers favor
ey. On to of the drug risk, FD also is at risk of injury, just like
ey.
My whole point is with
ey you know you get a top five TE when healthy. With Davis you might get a top five TE when healthy and not suspended for drugs.
+1
Throw out
ey's rookie year (which was more productive than Davis's), plus the two years he was hurt and Chris's worst year was two receptions short of Fred's best season, not to mention
ey is the best blocking TE on the roster until Paul gets things figured out.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:19 pm
by SkinsJock
Like I said - I'm a
ey fan and I think he's a clutch player - I think both are here this year
I'm sticking to my prediction that Davis shows that he's the better TE as this season evolves
this does not take anything away from
ey or his role here
we'll see what happens when RGIII and this offense gets rolling towards the end of this season
my feeling is that Davis is going to badly want (and will get) an opportunity to show that he's the better TE for this team going forward
ey's stats are great and he did it with less of an offense ... but that's not the issue ....
we'll see
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:45 pm
by SkinsJock
Deadskins wrote:ATX_Skins wrote:Even if he was, he isn't a top ten TE anyways.
Um, yes, he is. When healthy he was a top 3 TE. Google his stats if you don't believe it. He is lacking in TDs, though, but I don't fault him for that as much as I do the play callers. That being said, he has been injury prone lately, and his best playing days may be behind him.
I'm hoping he can stay healthy this year, and prove the doubters wrong.
I agree -
ey has been a very good player for us and he's had a great knack of making plays when we really needed them
ey also has not had the benefit of playing with a really good offense
I have no doubt that Davis and
ey are going to have good seasons I just hope that
ey's health issues are behind him and that Davis is as motivated as reports indicate
these 2 should be on the roster this season
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:48 pm
by andyjens89
Gronk-Hernandez 2.0
But seriously, I think having
ey and Davis on the field at the same time will be perfect for Griffin. The Panthers had two solid tight ends and Cam Newton had a heck of a year. I don't really want to compare Griffin to Newton (or Jon Beason might hurt me), but hopefully Griffin can have a great year as well.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:50 pm
by 1niksder
yupchagee wrote:1niksder wrote:not to mention Cooley is the best blocking TE on the roster until Paul gets things figured out.
What about Paulson?
Paulson is a better blocker than Davis too
But he's not on the same level as
ey or Davis,
IMO: Shanny seems to be doing whatever he can to keep Paul on the roster so Paulson might be the odd man out.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 4:59 pm
by andyjens89
I believe Paul plays on both kickoff teams and both punt teams, and is a good blocker as a wide receiver. If he does indeed switch to tight end, it just makes him more valuable - knowing more than one position. This is a little off-topic, but guys like Paul, Alexander, and Golston are big parts of the team for all that they do on special teams.
ey should bounce back if his knee holds up. Will his stats be as good as they used to be? Probably not. Will he be a big part of the offense anyways? I think so
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:37 pm
by frankcal20
Coach compared Paul to Shannon Sharp transitioning to the TE position based on skill set & size. I don't think he is trying to say he'll have as good of a career but he has the skill set and size to play the position and be productive.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 6:58 pm
by DarthMonk
1niksder wrote:yupchagee wrote:1niksder wrote:not to mention Cooley is the best blocking TE on the roster until Paul gets things figured out.
What about Paulson?
Paulson is a better blocker than Davis too
But he's not on the same level as
ey or Davis,
IMO: Shanny seems to be doing whatever he can to keep Paul on the roster so Paulson might be the odd man out.
Paulsen runs a 4.75 to
ey's 4.87. Pauslen is 25 to
ey's 30 (in a month).
ey has shown signs of wearing down. I think his cap number is kinda big. Paulsen is actually bigger (268), faster, and younger than
ey (has reportedly dropped 10 or 15 pounds from 255). Paulsen's probably a better blocker too and we have Sleepy and Paul. I love Chris
ey and I thought he was a great pick but Chris
ey could be in trubble.
DarthMonk
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:55 pm
by Red_One43
^ Based on those stats and that Shanny has always spoken of Paulsen in a favorable way, I would have to agree that
ey is in trouble.
I can still see them keep all four though, since Paul can be counted on as as receiver as well and fill both a TE and WR slot. We kept four last year -
ey, Davis, Paulsen and Sellers filling both TE/FB slots.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:10 pm
by skinsfan#33
DarthMonk wrote:1niksder wrote:yupchagee wrote:1niksder wrote:not to mention Cooley is the best blocking TE on the roster until Paul gets things figured out.
What about Paulson?
Paulson is a better blocker than Davis too
But he's not on the same level as
ey or Davis,
IMO: Shanny seems to be doing whatever he can to keep Paul on the roster so Paulson might be the odd man out.
Paulsen runs a 4.75 to
ey's 4.87. Pauslen is 25 to
ey's 30 (in a month).
ey has shown signs of wearing down. I think his cap number is kinda big. Paulsen is actually bigger (268), faster, and younger than
ey (has reportedly dropped 10 or 15 pounds from 255). Paulsen's probably a better blocker too and we have Sleepy and Paul. I love Chris
ey and I thought he was a great pick but Chris
ey could be in trubble.
DarthMonk
I've said this in other threads, I could care less what a player ran in shorts at the scouting combine. I've seen a
Chris and Logan play and CC is faster. Plus
ey's game has never been about speed. He will be the first to tell you that he isn't very fast. But he is a good blocker (much better than FD but not as good as LP), however Chris makes his money finding open holes in the zone and running great routes. He if much beyer at all three of those things than Davis, but FD is faster than Chris. He is a bigger play threat than
ey, but Chris wil be where he is supposed to be when he is supposed to be there.
You can't compare Chris and Logan. Logan is a virtual non-factor in the passing game. Sure LP is a better blocker, but the gap in his ability to block to Chris' is much smaller than the gap between the two as pass catchers.
I am fairly confident that if healthy
ey will catch more passes than FD and possibly have more yards too. Davis will have a much higher yards per catch average than CC, because he will be used for those deeper TE routes, but
ey will be RG3's best friend. He will catch a lot of passes from our rookie QB.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 10:05 pm
by DarthMonk
^ I'd love to see
ey catch a lot of balls from RGIII and it may happen but the writing is on the wall and it's just a matter of time. Don't be surprised when the reaper comes - if he happens to come this year.
I hope
ey's only shot isn't being able to sit in a zone better. It's a good point though.
No way
ey is still faster, shorts or otherwise, unless all the weight he lost (21 pounds) got him another 0.2 sec off the 40 he ran 9 years ago. Dude is 30 with a troublesome knee.
I think this is all solid. How many years max do you give
ey with us. Please Don't say 5.
Having painted gloom and doom, Chris
ey could have a very good year. His cap number is very large though and Shanny has cajones.
DarthMonk
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:05 am
by skinsfan#33
DarthMonk wrote:^
No way
ey is still faster, shorts or otherwise, unless all the weight he lost (21 pounds) got him another 0.2 sec off the 40 he ran 9 years ago. Dude is 30 with a troublesome knee.
I think this is all solid. How many years max do you give
ey with us. Please Don't say 5.
Having painted gloom and doom, Chris
ey could have a very good year. His cap number is very large though and Shanny has cajones.
DarthMonk
I think he will be on the team for this season. Then he is probably gone because you will have Tokey needing a new contract, Chris with a big cap number, and we have no cap space because of those crooks in NY.
But that will depend on how FD plays. If he finally out produces CC and doesn't get suspended then I think the club will have to chose him over CC. However, even the club isn't confident in him or they would have given him a long term contract.
I still have no idea why you think LP its faster than CC. I don't even think it is close. LP runs like he has cement feet.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:02 am
by DarthMonk
skinsfan#33 wrote:I still have no idea why you think LP its faster than CC. I don't even think it is close. LP runs like he has cement feet.
Mainly because he is.
Chris
ey admits he has lost speed since battling a troublesome left knee injury throughout last season.This is despite an offseason weight loss of nearly 20 pounds
... and he was slower than LP already.
Still a
ey fan though.
Redskins TE Chris
ey acknowledges contributing behind Fred Davis this season is "going to be a challenge."Cooley also said that he trusts his troublesome left knee is healthy, and that he still wants to be "the guy" at tight end. It might be a not so subtle hint he's hoping for a trade. Due $3.8 million and set to count $6.23 million against the cap, it's more likely he is released.
1nik: possible restructure terms?
DarthMonk
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:58 am
by frankcal20
Would make a lot of sense for him to approach the team to restructure their deal for a long term. Only issue is that Allen is very good at getting rid of players while they still have value.
ey could generate a 5th round pick if he would go to another team w/ a new longer, cap friendly deal. Maybe Miami?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:19 pm
by skinsfan#33
DarthMonk wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote:I still have no idea why you think LP its faster than CC. I don't even think it is close. LP runs like he has cement feet.
Mainly because he is.
DarthMonk
It certainly doesn't show on the football field.
ey definately looks faster than LP on the field, where it counts!
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:09 pm
by 1niksder
DarthMonk wrote:
1nik: possible restructure terms?
DarthMonk
Two year extension with 2012 & 2013 bases converted to a bonus would add $4.86M in dead cap this year but will net $3.9M in cap space for 2012 and $3.84M in 2013. 2012 and 2013 base salaries would be vet mins., but
ey still would come out $1.1M richer. Only of option would be a straight pay cut.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:49 pm
by the poster
Deadskins wrote:Um, yes, he is. When healthy he was a top 3 TE.
he would be a third stringer today on the patriots alone. and he wouldn't start in new Orleans, sf, dallas, green bay, and Seattle and there's some other teams where it would be up to debate.
and of course, typical redskin fans, who only know how to read the back of a football card when it comes to evaluating a player, they wouldn't know that he is also a typical redskin tight end in that he's completely unreliable as a pass blocker, few are less effective and one of those few is Fred Davis, and as run blockers they both rank as two of the worst in the game.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:00 pm
by ATX_Skins
^^^
So anyways... As someone posted earlier, I actually could see
ey getting released if LP has a good offseason. 6.23 against the cap...